Brembo step to the plate and give us brakes!!

[datsbad]

I would love to see some Brembo brake kits for some of our muscle. Anyone else???

[USAZR1]

Movit-DE offers Brembo brake kits for GM musclecars. Somebody on Team Chevelle has offered bracket kits. I had Movit's Big Red brakes on my 90 ZR-1 and they worked awesome.
Tigergutt has six piston Brembos on the front of his Chevelle.

[TitoJones]

I've talked with Brembo North America last year @ SEMA and they were entirely uninterested.

Most Brembos will bolt up to the AFX spindle with no mods, as will Stop Tech, Mov'it and others.

Tyler

[Damn True]

I have been told they do, but I am looking for concrete confirmation:

Do the brembo calipers from a CTS-V have the same bolt pattern and offset as normal c-5 stuff?

[hotrdblder]

what about brembo nascar short track/road course stuff?? will the radial mounts mount right to the afx/c5 mount spacing?
also would someone make a rotor hat with the correct offset for afx/c5, a floating hat at that?

[chicane67]

I would love to see some Brembo brake kits for some of our muscle. Anyone else???

Well.... if you utilize AFX spindle's.... you could have your Brembo's.

[datsbad]

Well.... if you utilize AFX spindle's.... you could have your Brembo's.

what Brembos will work with the spindles? will the spindles change backspace compared to a stock 69 drum spindle?

[Damn True]

Well.... if you utilize AFX spindle's.... you could have your Brembo's.

With the CTS-V calipers as well?

[TitoJones]

what Brembos will work with the spindles? will the spindles change backspace compared to a stock 69 drum spindle?

http://www.t56kit.com/FAQ/
First question at the top.

The CTS are very similar to the C5, I'll check into the fitment.

This goes for ANY manufacturer of brake systems:

If they make a brake kit for a 1997-2006 Corvette, it will work with the AFX spindle.

Tyler

[MrQuick]

Dan was working on brackets to mount CTS Brembo's to a short spindle but i've lost contact with him. From what he found the off set and bolt patterns where not the same. Easiest set up would be with the ATS spindle.

[BonzoHansen]

The SRT8 Chargers come with big Brembo calipers too, don't they? Maybe different mounting points? Just thinking out loud.

[BA.]

lots of rides with Brembo's as stock these days.

I think both the Suburu WRX STi and Mitsu EVO has them.....

[Damn True]

The first few years of the Infinity G35 Coupe as well.

[slownova]

im a brembo dealer if someone wanted some part numbers for stuff or something.

[USAZR1]

im a brembo dealer if someone wanted some part numbers for stuff or something.

Can you give us a ballpark figure what a pair of the four piston 993 TT calipers would cost?

[silver69camaro]

Not to sound negative, but there are definetely other worthwhile choices out there besides Brembo.

This isn't another bling issue, is it?

[BA.]

Not to thread hijack, but, for some of us it might just be that it's hard to tell who's got the good parts at a non-inflated price vs parts that won't live up to our expectations.
I mean, we all know the list of manufacturers from Brembo, StopTech, Wilwood, Baer, SSBC, G.M., AP Racing and on and on.
I'd be willing to bet that the offerings for a 13" front rotor with 4 piston calipers for the new ATS spindle would give me different stopping performance from each manufacturer.

For me, it would be as easy to under-buy as it would be to over-buy.

Drop some knowledge on me Matt! :secret:

[hotrdblder]

from what we saw at pigeon forge event, 12 inch front and 11 rear is as much brake as you want for street tires, anything more locks the stiff sidewall tires up almost instantly, while the smaller, sized brakes do lock up but not until you are on the brakes really hard, they are perfect for any car not seeing competition tires.
any bigger then that on street tires is BLING ONLY, they will lock up way to quickly and not even stop your car safely.
dse test car has 6 piston alcons front and rear and it was way to much brake for the 275/335 pilot sports driving in the auto x from hell, now put some race tires onit and it would be a different story, but how many are going to have 2 sets of rims or run a 80 tread wear rating tire all the time??

[slownova]

Can you give us a ballpark figure what a pair of the four piston 993 TT calipers would cost?

95-98 993? or what years?

[Fuelie Fan]

Haha yeah, we've had the "how big is too big" discussion before. Those who genuinely care will research that issue, and those who don't will buy the 17" 12 piston brakes and impress the heck out of the average car show guy. Such is the world of hot rodding. Ditto for wheel diamter, hp output, exhaust diameter, tire width.... :) From talking with a few coworkers (just yesterday, in fact) reviews were mixed for Brembos in comparison to say Alcon.

[Midwest Performance]

I belive DSE's test car has a Hydra boost also. It in combo to the huge brakes it could make it easy to lock up those huge rollers. With out the hydra boose it would probably act diffrent.

Kevin

[Ralph LoGrasso]

from what we saw at pigeon forge event, 12 inch front and 11 rear is as much brake as you want for street tires,

Perhaps that is true of autocross courses, but factor in several repeated laps on a large road course, and I'd think you'd start to develop brake fade. This is where the larger setups come into play.

My '01 SS has the factory brakes on it (12"/12" 2 piston pbr front, 1 piston rear) and the brakes are terrible. The car does not stop nearly as well as it should. If I were keeping it past the next year, I'd step up to some C6 Z06 stuff.

[hotrdblder]

either way, 6 piston alcons front and rear are not for street tires, and anyone running multiple track days is probaly into them , so they would not mind running a competition tire as it helps the car go that much further.
then going back to the, how many here actually have do these events multiple times a year?? not to many, so it is not worth the cost of comp tires, thus meaning not needing 6 piston 14 inch brakes.
if you saw how cars acted with comp tires, then ones with street tires at pigeon forge you would know what i am talking about.
if your hardcore enough to drive your car hard enough like tony bolton, comp tires and brakes are no question, however if you are like the other 90% of us, there is not need for 14 inch brakes
hasn't everycar or truck you owned had horrible brakes?

[datsbad]

DSE car does not have Hydroboost .

[TitoJones]

from what we saw at pigeon forge event, 12 inch front and 11 rear is as much brake as you want for street tires, anything more locks the stiff sidewall tires up almost instantly, while the smaller, sized brakes do lock up but not until you are on the brakes really hard, they are perfect for any car not seeing competition tires.
any bigger then that on street tires is BLING ONLY, they will lock up way to quickly and not even stop your car safely.
dse test car has 6 piston alcons front and rear and it was way to much brake for the 275/335 pilot sports driving in the auto x from hell, now put some race tires onit and it would be a different story, but how many are going to have 2 sets of rims or run a 80 tread wear rating tire all the time??

I will strongly disagree with you here. What you described is called driver error. Learning your car's braking threshold is a fine and delicate balance, and it comes with practice. Not to say that there isn't a limit to street tires, because it is very obvious if you have no traction, you aren't slowing down as fast as you could be. You also should not go into a corner and stab the brake pedal as hard as you can, as you are going to overpower your tires. There is a little thing called modulation, and when it relates to your vehicles tires and their traction it works both ways- acceleration and deceleration. You don't mash the gas pedal with a 335/18 street tire at a stop light and expect to rocket forward- the cars stays stationary and you take away 15% of your tread life. Its all part of learning your car, and going to these kinds of events- learn to launch, learn to modulate heavy braking zones.

I have stock 13" C5 brakes on my daily driver and I stop better than most vehicles around me, but I still could use a more aggressive brake on the street. I can get my car right to the limit of braking witout lock-up, so I know there is room for improvement with a better brake/tire combo.

As far as Brembos vs AP, Alcon etc- On Porsche, they were the best braking cars I had ever driven in stock form, but you also don't see any cars rolling off showrooms with AP's either.

Tyler

[rizzos442]

For those of you wondering about Brembo's and GM muscle cars...here is the scoop.
After a long time of research and development, Kore3 Industries has made my dream come true. I have front and rear 2005 CTS-V Brembo Calipers and they are NOW on my 1969 Olds 442. Tobin, from Kore3, made me brackets for the GM A-Body short spindle that mount the caliper directly to the spindle. He also designed me proper rear brackets for my Ford 9" and the CTS-V calipers are also installed there.
My rear rotors are the 13" C4 (front rotors from the C4) and my fronts are 14" DBA 2-piece rotors. I believe that they came from a Jaguar?
The tricky part, and costly, were the front rotors. The rears were an ease; however, the CTS-V caliper needs a thick rotor, hence the wait time for the3 DBA's.

Enclosed are what the products look like, minus the 13" C4 rotors.

I am going to take a few pics of the brakes installed on the 442 today, and I will post them also.

FYI, you may want to contact Tobin about brackets and whatnot. To my knowledge, I am the first one running such a dramatic system and he still has the CAD for the brackets. He will run them off as needed, I am sure of.
www.kore3.com (http://www.kore3.com)

I hope that this helps some.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[hotrdblder]

i never said anything about braking in a corner, you always brake before the corner, so that the susp has time to settle and work properly in the corner.
however, kyle tucker has many miles in the test car and he had trouble all day with the brakes, maybe he needs more driving time??? i doubt it.
to much brake period for street tires unless you wanted to baby foot it.
i do agree with you about modulation etc, and you could tune is brakes with a prop valve etc, which i am surprised he hasn't but again, for 90% of us out there, there is no need for 14 inch front brakes, 6 piston calipers.

[hotrdblder]

rizzo how much were the rotors??
the caliper bracket mounting holes on an A body are different from an f body spindle right?

[rizzos442]

I believe that the a-body and f-body spindles are different, but do not quote me. You are better off asking Tobin at Kore3 about that. He makes all the brackets for these vehicles. He also had my calipers for about 5 months...he was taking measurements for all other vehicles too. These Brembo calipers are stock on all SRT-8 vehicles also, so I am predicting a major uproar for this type of conversion. The calipers are not too expensive, if you get them from a wrecked car, and they are awesome.

The rotors were $700 shipped. They were back ordered 12 weeks also, when the order was placed. You "could" take a stock CTS-V front rotor and redrill it for your bolt pattern (Caddy's are a 6 bolt pattern) but I didn't want to go that route. I figure, I am only doing this once, so I may as well do it right.

[andrewb70]

Those look like DBA rotors. Do you happen to know the piston diameters on the front and rear CTSV calipers?

Andrew

[Steve1968LS2]

from what we saw at pigeon forge event, 12 inch front and 11 rear is as much brake as you want for street tires, anything more locks the stiff sidewall tires up almost instantly, while the smaller, sized brakes do lock up but not until you are on the brakes really hard, they are perfect for any car not seeing competition tires.
any bigger then that on street tires is BLING ONLY, they will lock up way to quickly and not even stop your car safely.
dse test car has 6 piston alcons front and rear and it was way to much brake for the 275/335 pilot sports driving in the auto x from hell, now put some race tires onit and it would be a different story, but how many are going to have 2 sets of rims or run a 80 tread wear rating tire all the time??

This is sorta true.. that's why I am running R-compound Toyo tires.. what's the old saying? "the brakes don't stop the car, the tires do".. lol

I will ONLY run R-componds on Penny.. hell they should last 10k miles so a new set every year or two isn't that bad. Every car we have ever tested stopped faster with stickier tires.

[hotrdblder]

exactely, from what we saw its legitimate, and for as many miles we put onthese hardcore machines, why not run a dot sticky

[hotrdblder]

rizzo,
i believe coleman makes 2 pc rotors for around 175-200 each which would of been 1/2 the price you paid.
anyone have pics of coleman 2 pc rotors? any wieghts? i know the z-51 c6 rotors weight 18 lbs each and are the same part # for both sides, meaning when on the track one will run alot hotter then the other, when pushing the brakes hard

[rizzos442]

Coleman does make the 2 piece rotors for about $200 each; however, they do NOT make rotors with my bolt pattern and offset! Trust me, I researched this and so did others...if there was a cheaper route, I would have taken it. Just because they make 2 piece rotors and a 5x4.75 bolt circle does NOT mean that it will work with your application. The Brembo calipers have an offset and pistons that need to be mated properly with the rotor. Just assigning a rotor that "fits" is not enough. I wish you the best of luck because I have been there and done that already...trust me, there is no other route!

[hotrdblder]

well with that said, maybe a more complex caliper bracket rather then 700 dollar rotors
are the srt-8 calipers the same as the ctsv calipers?

[chicane67]

...

[andrewb70]

Before we start a real big pissing match, does anyone know the piston diameter of the CTSV calipers?

Andrew

[hotrdblder]

is the dust and card board boxes still on your car??
when was the last time you drove this ultimate test mule you have?
i was talking to ralph when i said hasn't all the vehicles you have owned had horrible brakes, he has mentioned before his 96 tahoe had bad brakes, which those year chevys do, but i am not sure why he thinkgs his 4th gen has bad brakes.
please enlighten us, on this test mule of a car you have, has it ever has 6 piston calipers and been driven on a track?

[chicane67]

...

[rizzos442]

Andrew,
I do not have the dimensions because they are on my car and sorry, but I am not going to take them off to get piston dimensions. I am sure that you can find them on the new somewhere.

hotrdblder,
The CTS-V and SRT-8 calipers are identical. In the garage where my 442 is stored, there is a 2006 300C SRT-8 (my Uncle's) and the calipers are the exact same. For me, it was about "off the shelf" brakes. I will never put enough miles on my car to even get another set of rotors, so $700 was justifiable to me. Do it once and do it right.

As for the 6 piston v 4 piston, we can argue this until we are all blue. For me, I didn't want 6 piston calipers. If I had, I would have just purchased a Wilwood kit. I wanted something different...and to anyone that states that 4 pistons will not stop you, you are groosly mistaken. 4 piston calipers on all 4 corners and a hydroboost stops my car instantly, and I am running 19's on all 4 corners also.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[hotrdblder]

thanks rizzo
well how do you have the knowledge if you do not have alot of seat time with these big 6 piston brakes?
i have no experience other then what i saw.
and it sounds like you the only experience with 6 pistons calipers is from reading.
so i can't validate it
but i am glad you can give a bench warming view of it, i was asking and stating what i saw, your the one with a test mule of 15 years.
thanks, i'm out:nopity: :nopity:

[andrewb70]

Andrew,
I do not have the dimensions because they are on my car and sorry, but I am not going to take them off to get piston dimensions. I am sure that you can find them on the new somewhere.



To me piston area is more important than piston count, thats why I was asking. No worries. I would not want you to take it all apart.

Andrew

[chicane67]

...

[Damn True]

I believe that the a-body and f-body spindles are different, but do not quote me. You are better off asking Tobin at Kore3 about that. He makes all the brackets for these vehicles. He also had my calipers for about 5 months...he was taking measurements for all other vehicles too. These Brembo calipers are stock on all SRT-8 vehicles also, so I am predicting a major uproar for this type of conversion. The calipers are not too expensive, if you get them from a wrecked car, and they are awesome.

The rotors were $700 shipped. They were back ordered 12 weeks also, when the order was placed. You "could" take a stock CTS-V front rotor and redrill it for your bolt pattern (Caddy's are a 6 bolt pattern) but I didn't want to go that route. I figure, I am only doing this once, so I may as well do it right.

So the figure in question is the hub flange to caliper centerline delta, and the difficulty is in finding a rotor/hat that matches this offset? Is that correct?

[rizzos442]

Andrew,
I was not trying to be a jerk...my vehicle is stored in a garage off site. There is noone over there to help me bleed the system so that I can take off the calipers to measure them for you. If I had the car here, I would do it and make the wife operate the pedal for me...but that is not the case.

If I get a friend, I will head over there tonight and use my dials for ya! I promise!

Damn True,
You are correct! I am using Kore3 billet hubs...they were my key!

[Damn True]

Well, well...well. Now that says alot, doesnt it ??

No one said I didnt have any seat time with this system.... except you. And just so you know, I do have seat time with the specific systems. At the time were doing a few chassis with 4pot Brembo's exclusively and I got quite a bit of seat experience right along with test and acquisitioned data. That seat time even dates back to the late 80's early 90's in the Corvette Challenge Series. What were you doing back then ?? Still regurgitating peas and carrots ?? :barf:

The only bench warming around here will be done at event's like Pigeon Forge, obviously by your own admission. Get some seat time before you spout off some theory without any real world experience.

Andrew, I got a call into one of boys that has a K-Series CTS-V and I have asked him for the info you are looking for. Hopefully he will get back to me on Monday or atleast early next week.

Do you have data available that might help to figure out if there are some rotor offsets/shim combinations available that might compensate for the dimensional differences in the CTS-V caliper and get it to fit within the dimensions of the Touring Classics/ATX spindle template?

[andrewb70]

Andrew,
I was not trying to be a jerk...my vehicle is stored in a garage off site. There is noone over there to help me bleed the system so that I can take off the calipers to measure them for you. If I had the car here, I would do it and make the wife operate the pedal for me...but that is not the case.

If I get a friend, I will head over there tonight and use my dials for ya! I promise!

Damn True,
You are correct! I am using Kore3 billet hubs...they were my key!

It's cool man. I don't think you were being a jerk. It would be interesting to compare the piston area to say a Wilwood billet Superlite 6. For the record aluminum hubs scare the hell out of me, then again my car is 4200 pounds.

Andrew

[chicane67]

Do you have data available that might help to figure out if there are some rotor offsets/shim combinations available that might compensate for the dimensional differences in the CTS-V caliper and get it to fit within the dimensions of the Touring Classics/ATX spindle template?

I have inquired for the full monty. Basically, I have asked for the complete stock dimentions with all relative offset's concerning the caliper and rotor as well as, the hub/spindle itself. Hopefully this will yield enough information that we could calculate hard numbers from.

The cat I asked, is really anal about this kinda thing. He is the type that will even provide volume/displacement information, if, he has enough time. So I am rest assured, that the numbers he provides will be spot on. I just hope he is feet dry and in country right now and not out screwing off on some island right now.

[chicane67]

Andrew.....

Front caliper piston sizes are 46-40mm, which worked out to 58.37cm^2. Rear is square 40.

The factory Brembo "GT's" actually have a 44-40, at 55.56cm^2.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

i was talking to ralph when i said hasn't all the vehicles you have owned had horrible brakes, he has mentioned before his 96 tahoe had bad brakes, which those year chevys do, but i am not sure why he thinkgs his 4th gen has bad brakes.

Yeah, I'm never happy with the brakes on any vehicles I own. The Tahoe brakes are flat out terrible, everyone who has driven the truck agrees, but-- it's a truck, so who cares really.

I shouldn't say the 4th gen has "bad" brakes so much as I'm not at all impressed with them. They stop okay, but not great. I think a set of hawk or porterfield pads coupled with 13" rotors up front and some stainless lines would really wake the system up, though. That seems to be one of the more popular low buck brake upgrades that the 4th gen guys do. I'm fairly certain most of the stopping power being lost right now is due to the factory pads.

[wendell]

J-56s go pretty good. They aren't real fancy but they were good enough for Mark Donahue. They're cast iron so I guess you could get them chromed...

[Damn True]

I have inquired for the full monty. Basically, I have asked for the complete stock dimentions with all relative offset's concerning the caliper and rotor as well as, the hub/spindle itself. Hopefully this will yield enough information that we could calculate hard numbers from.

The cat I asked, is really anal about this kinda thing. He is the type that will even provide volume/displacement information, if, he has enough time. So I am rest assured, that the numbers he provides will be spot on. I just hope he is feet dry and in country right now and not out screwing off on some island right now.

Very cool. I'll check this thread often looking for the answers.

[ProStreet R/T]

Which brembos are we talking about? I just picked up a set of brembo 8 piston GTR calipers on 15" rotors for my ride... they are pretty damn sexy to say the least. :smoke:

If you have the means, I highly recommend it -bueller

I'd love to see a set on a nasty 1st gen F-body. Bit overkill but if you're going big might as well go to the top.

[Damn True]

I have inquired for the full monty. Basically, I have asked for the complete stock dimentions with all relative offset's concerning the caliper and rotor as well as, the hub/spindle itself. Hopefully this will yield enough information that we could calculate hard numbers from.

The cat I asked, is really anal about this kinda thing. He is the type that will even provide volume/displacement information, if, he has enough time. So I am rest assured, that the numbers he provides will be spot on. I just hope he is feet dry and in country right now and not out screwing off on some island right now.

Any reply from your contact?

[chicane67]

Yeah..... he is in Alaska until the beginning of November. But, he is going to have one of the guys in his shop set every thing up for when he gets back.... so that at least is in the cards.

[Damn True]

Cool, thanks for the follow-up.

Dude, go to the House of Blues Sat night.

[chicane67]

Whats going on Sat at HOB ??

[Damn True]

The Pogues

[Damn True]

I have inquired for the full monty. Basically, I have asked for the complete stock dimentions with all relative offset's concerning the caliper and rotor as well as, the hub/spindle itself. Hopefully this will yield enough information that we could calculate hard numbers from.

The cat I asked, is really anal about this kinda thing. He is the type that will even provide volume/displacement information, if, he has enough time. So I am rest assured, that the numbers he provides will be spot on. I just hope he is feet dry and in country right now and not out screwing off on some island right now.


Any info yet?

BTW, does anyone know if the Brembo CTS-V rear caliper has an integral parking brake? If so, how is it actuated?

[chicane67]

Just heard from John...

Apperaently they chopped up the CTS and put the whole chassis under a 40's era Plymouth. So needless to say the rolling chassis is at another shop getting the sheet metal done and he says he'll get me the requested info... but my question to him was "how long" ?? He assured me 'soon'.

He's not know to lag (at all), but we'll see.

[Damn True]

Anything....

[chicane67]

Yeah, I saw him over the Holiday season and he was just moving shops... and he looked a little frazzeled from all the events... so I didnt lean on him too hard. But he did say he'd get me the info.

[Damn True]

Right on, when you get the info let us know.