What happened to Corner-Carvers.com?

[novanutcase]

Did they fall off the face of the earth. I can't get them to come up!!:dunno:

[Mkelcy]

They've been having major problems with their server the last several days. They were down, then up for about a day, and now down for a couple of days. Perhaps they "welcomed" a very technically knowledgable newbie, as only C-C can . . . .

[Stangonline.com]

^^funny. There have been times when if I knew enough, I would have crashed them in the blink of an eye. THere is some good tech over there, but there are also a bunch of people who just like to hear theirselves talk....er....see theirselves type...whatever.

[trapin]

The server could only take so much animosity, pompousness, and hatred before it exploded. Shortly after, the ground opened up and swallowed them whole. Kinda like what happened in that Poltergeist movie.

[Mkelcy]

Truth be told, you accept what you need to accept when visiting any of these boards.

C-C posters are often pretty arrogant and full of themselves (frankly, more often the newbies who seem to like hazing other relative newbies), have a zero tolerance for asking a question without doing a search to see if it's been answered before, like good English and grammar, and generally like people to know what they're talking about when they answer a question. So, you get lots of attitude, but generally you also get pretty good and understandable info concentrated in a single relevant thread.

We're much friendlier, tolerate better asking a previously answered question, willing to over look extremely creative spelling and sentence structure, and less often challenge another poster's answer, but then you get to think about answering the weekly "what do I need to put a T56 in my first generation Camaro" question, have to wade through (sometimes) dozens of threads to get all the relevant postings, and have to sift out a certain amount of bad information from posters who "think" they have the answer.

If you really want to illustrate the difference between the two sites, imagine a "what-to-name-my-project" thread at C-C.com. I prefer the friendliness here, and appreciate Pro-touring.com posters' ability to ingnore threads they simply aren't interested in rather than needing to insult the OP.

I have both sites open most of the time (isn't tabbed browsing wonderful) and simply do a mental adjustment going from one to the other. I like the friendliness here (I am a site supporter) but often find the "directness" of C-C refreshing (particularly when not aimed at me).

[Stangonline.com]

The sickening part is... They complain that newbies ask repetitive questions - citing that it wastes their time and makes a mess of the board. However they have no problem spending quality time and space to tear someone a new *******. Hipocrisy at its finest.

I once came to the aid of a newb about halfway through the slaughter....what a mistake that was. I visit their for sale section once in a while, but that's it. CC doesn't deserve to be frequented by someone of my character (actually has some).

[Damn True]

It looks to be back up.

I like the unfettered tech in the Suspension/Fab and Racing/Driving forum and the passionate discourse in the General discussion. I could do without some of the self agrandizing but all in all it's a good board without the teenage element.

Overall though I prefer PT.com mainly because the tech here is closer to my intent for my car. Though CC has a leg up in terms of hardcore racing-level stuff for late-model cars.

[novanutcase]

WOW! Sounds like everyone has had QUITE an experience over there! So I guess the consensus is......WHO GIVES A FLYING FLUCK??!!!??
In the short time that I have been posting I have been lucky enough to not have been singled out and flamed so I guess I should consider myself lucky! Yes, I have read some of the posts and they can be pretty brutal but I do agree that there is some good info to be had as long as you wade through the 6th grade mentality!:git:

[PeteRR]

The sickening part is... They complain that newbies ask repetitive questions - citing that it wastes their time and makes a mess of the board. However they have no problem spending quality time and space to tear someone a new *******. Hipocrisy at its finest.

We cull the weak to strengthen the herd. If we slaughter a newbie and thereby prevent a 100 reposts of existing tech, it's worth it.

The whole point is to cut down on the jackassery of people talking out there asses on subjects they know nothing about. If you post what you know, search for what you don't, and listen to the tech presented to you, you'll never be banned.

[parsonsj]

If we slaughter a newbie and thereby prevent a 100 reposts of existing tech, it's worth it.To you, obviously. I doubt the newbie sees it that way.

PT.com takes a different approach: we welcome newbies and strengthen the herd through education and inclusion, rather than indimidation and mockery. To each his own, I guess.

jp

[PeteRR]

To you, obviously. I doubt the newbie sees it that way.

If the newbies actually bother to read the wiki, they'd be forewarned about the rules. Ignoring the wiki and believing you're above the rules is reason #1 to get flamed within an inch of your life.

The nice thing about their archives is, if you search for specific tech, you get only a few relevant threads. If we allow every newbie to start his own thread on a particular subject it would be very difficult to find the relevant thread with the real tech.

[parsonsj]

The nice thing about their archives is, if you search for specific tech, you get only a few relevant threads. If we allow every newbie to start his own thread on a particular subject it would be very difficult to find the relevant thread with the real tech.No doubt this method works. CC.com does have some of the best tech around.

So what is the objective? Is it to archive tech? Mission accomplished, then. Or is to build a community of enthusiasts and grow the hobby? CC.com doesn't do that very well, I don't think.

jp

[Steve1968LS2]

I think this site would rather raise a newbie up to a higher level rather than beat them into the ground :)

[PeteRR]

No doubt this method works. CC.com does have some of the best tech around.

So what is the objective? Is it to archive tech? Mission accomplished, then. Or is to build a community of enthusiasts and grow the hobby? CC.com doesn't do that very well, I don't think.

jp

I agree they aren't running for Miss Congeniality. ;)

[PeteRR]

I think this site would rather raise a newbie up to a higher level rather than beat them into the ground :)
They don't haze all newbies, just a select few. Some profit from the experience, some don't.

[PeteRR]

Stickied at the top of the General Discussion forum, so they can't say they weren't warned:

Since the vast majority of "new guys" tend to dip their toes into the formidable waters of Corner-Carvers.com in this forum first, I figured it was as good a place as any to put this up.

First and foremost, welcome to the party.

Secondly, we wish to grow our numbers and spread the go-fast-crack-pipe addiction in as reasonable and responsible a manner as is humanly possible. Accordingly, we recognize that with the addition of new-blood often comes new and valuable ideas, and we greet the opportunity to learn from you and share what we know in return with open arms.

Yet, as welcome as the recent influx of new people truly is in principle, it has nonetheless caused some issues and must be addressed. In short, there have been a number of postings of late, ranging from the weird to the inane to the near-slanderous to the flat out bizarre to the just-not-allowed, and it's going to stop.

Right now.

Before you post anything here at cc.com based on the vast-and-yet-hopelessly-useless touchy-feely-sponsor-sucking-experience you've likely come away with from some other kindergarten or circus-free-for-all you've attended, you MUST read The Original CC.com Guide for Newbies (http://www.corner-carvers.com/wiki/index.php?Corner-Carvers%20Guide%20For%20Newbies) , and perhaps even more importantly, The CC.com Draft Guide For Newbies. (http://www.corner-carvers.com/wiki/index.php?Guide%20For%20Newbies)

Be forewarned; the tidbits of wisdom posted therein are The Forum RULES, and just as they are entirely non-negotiable, they are also most decidedly not suggestions, ideas, jokes, concepts or “things we wish you’d listen to”. Moreover, since we’re all big kids here, "reading" in this part of the world assumes that you possess above average powers of reading comprehension and at least a room-temperature IQ; should you come up short on either, you need not feel compelled to demonstrate it by wasting the precious bandwidth of this non-commercial site by asking some perfectly asinine question about “lowering your car just for looks”. This is a road-racing web-site, not a gay disco. Should you just barely crack into the “capable of digesting food and blowing your nose at the same time” intellectual range, there is no need to fear, however; the authors decided to use small words and plain language in the course of making their contributions, so you'll be able to understand it all easily.

As it turns out, the Guides contained on the Wiki Site merely outline where the fun starts. Not only does registration act as acceptance of our terms, but here, just as in real life and despite the flawed delusions that most of the amateur Perry Mason’s of the world suffer under, ignorance of the law is not an excuse, ever. Don't tell us "Oh, I didn't know", “I didn’t read it”, “I didn’t understand”, “Well, on other boards I’ve been on” or “I don’t think its fair/right/whatever”; you are charged with the absolute knowledge of what-goes, and more importantly, what doesn't. We recently set a record of having 118 users logged-on at once; we have no reason to carry a load that isn’t productive. Instead, enforcement is likely to be deliberate, swift, clean down the middle and with no excuses.

Believe it.

[novanutcase]

I think that JP and Steve pretty much summed up the essence that is PT.com. CC seems pretty good for the tech stuff but I will say that it gets pretty annoying when someone is wasting posting space flaming a newbie when a simple correction is all that is needed. I guess there are a$$holes wherever you go!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

when i first came on here folks were the coolest ive talked to.. noone randomly singled me out because i didnt know..

not like they did to me on Lincolnforums.net... man.. that was one reason i got rid of my 64 continental..

[ProTouring442]

The way I figure it is, I'm a moron. You all know I am a moron, yet you seem to embrace me and my odd ideas with no problem. Why would I want to go someplace where they will repeatedly point out that which I already know?

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"

[Stangonline.com]

We cull the weak to strengthen the herd. If we slaughter a newbie and thereby prevent a 100 reposts of existing tech, it's worth it.

The whole point is to cut down on the jackassery of people talking out there asses on subjects they know nothing about. If you post what you know, search for what you don't, and listen to the tech presented to you, you'll never be banned.

If they truely wanted to stay on-topic and limit the BS - they wouldn't spend 2 pages of the thread flaming someone after the fact - they would simply post a link to the wiki and close the thread. Face it, they like it the way it is - being bolligerent and degrading to others is not a necessity or a bi-product of education, but an activity that they enjoy and promote. If that works for them, that's their prerogative. I'm going to spend minimal time there because of it.

I guess this is where, "To each, his own." comes in?

[vintageracer]

Corner Carvers site is down? For good? Could not happen to a nicer bunch of folks!

[trapin]

PT.com takes a different approach: we welcome newbies and strengthen the herd through education and inclusion, rather than indimidation and mockery.
AMEN. Good reply JP.

I read through their COC rule for newbies. What a bunch of f**king buttholes. That's not a message board....it's a little social "click" of friends who have no tolerance for newcomers. Kinda reminds me of all those "old school" drag racers from when I was a teenager who never had the time nor patience to answer a question or offer advice to a kid. They all had this chip on their shoulder for no good God damned reason. It was this behaviour and total indifference that eventually taught me to hate them with extreme prejudice. And I still hate them to this day.

[parsonsj]

That's not a message board....it's a little social "click" of friends who have no tolerance for newcomers. That's how I see it too. And that's fine if they want it that way.

Here's an example: when it was time to plumb my brakes, I spent some lurk time there scouring for recommendations on fluid. Most there use Ford "Blue" or some high end fluid, and the information was useful to me. I took that information, educated myself, and bought the stuff. No interaction was ever done by me with the members there (I'm a member, but post very very rarely). So the tech was savvy, and nobody got flamed. On the other hand, I didn't "talk" to a soul, and their community didn't grow. Nor did my circle of acquaintances.

2 months ago or so, a newbie came on PT.com wanting to know about DOT 5 fluid in his Wilwood brakes. (can you just imagine the reaction at CC?). Several of us talked him through it, and he got educated on what that means, and on what Wilwood actually says in their directions. He was grateful, and continues to post. He has "joined" our PT community.

Which is better? It depends. It depends on the objective, but I like how PT.com operates.

jp

[MStennes]

AMEN. Good reply JP.

I read through their COC rule for newbies. What a bunch of f**king buttholes. That's not a message board....it's a little social "click" of friends who have no tolerance for newcomers. Kinda reminds me of all those "old school" drag racers from when I was a teenager who never had the time nor patience to answer a question or offer advice to a kid. They all had this chip on their shoulder for no good God damned reason. It was this behaviour and total indifference that eventually taught me to hate them with extreme prejudice. And I still hate them to this day.

Trapin,
You nailed it! Parsonsj also posted what I do over there, I just use the search hell if I never have to post its fine with me, I will only ask if cannot find the info I need anywhere else and then I might just fake it.... All they make want to do is learn more else where and show them kinda like the old school drag racers. I have been in those shoes and all it made want to do is show them how its done now. If all sites were like C-C this part of our hobby would die a quick and painful death. What gets me is why are they so much better than us? I mean the attitude alone is unreal. What ever happened to helping people so the sport can grow not get some leave a bad taste in your mouth.
Oh well just my nickles worth.
Thanks for this EXCELLENT site!!!!!!
Mike

[PeteRR]

I guess because the board is aimed towards the practitioners of a dangerous sport, open track racing, they've developed a no-sense attitude towards the information presented on their site. They don't want mis-information, presented authoritatively, getting people killed. The infamous Altima thread is a good example. They are very welcoming towards new members. They just aren't tolerant of BS sold as tech.

[novanutcase]

I completely agree on the dangerous threads issue and can verify that I have been welcomed by most. Granted, maybe not with the open arms that PT.com does but certainly not lambasted or tar and feathered. Are they "direct"? Certainly! Are there a$$holes that frequent the site? I would say a very high percentage but,my feeling is, if you want to make friends and socialize along with getting some VERY valuable advice this is the forum to do it. If you don;t mind possibly being bashed while you get what you need then CC is for you! What I do is if I can't find the info here then I go there and search like a madman. If I can't find it there then I VERY carefully word my post so as not to raise the ire of the gods and wait to see if anyone has an answer. I think it has its place.

John

[parsonsj]

because the board is aimed towards the practitioners of a dangerous sport, open track racing, they've developed a no-sense attitude ...Fair enough. I get that: nobody wants someone hurt because of ignorance or bad advice. I just disagree with the method and the attitude.

Who knows? Maybe once I'm finally getting some seat time in my ride, I'll post some about it over there for some feedback and help.

jp

[Stangonline.com]

I agree with the above. I would hope that any tech that was questionable would be pointed out in the name of safety...on any site.

However, I feel you are sugar-coating it quite a bit, taking a best-case scenario for a flame and making it sound like it's common place. Generally, it's a potential bashing and rudeness for any post.

This is my last post in this thread. Luckily there are other forums to visit and people do have a choice - that choice keeping me from hating on them TOO much, because I can just go elsewhere. Some people like the setup over there and that's their choice - no harm done...I can see how it serves a purpose.

Take care

[steemin]

I visit CC occasionally.
It just seems that some of the members over there just cannot wait to jump your ass!
I guess this is what middle school hall monitors do when they grow up:dunno:

Maybe its time for a swirly..
Scott

[Steve Chryssos]

Corner-Carver's approach works like a charm. I'm a happy idiot and I stay away.

[Jim Nilsen]

Kind of reminds me of most work places. You have people who want teamwork and some who want to be the only ones who can do it for some reason or another. Teamwork is more apparent here than anywhere else I can think of and it is the only way that most everyone can be a winner with less effort. Life doesn't have to be that hard but some just want to make it that way so they can brag about how difficult ,things are / they can be. Blame never solved anything and ignorance is not the same thing as stupidity but it sounds like they have the market cornered and carved in the way they do it :rotfl:

You just have to love it here :1st:

Jim Nilsen

[PeteRR]

Oy. I appreciate everybody standing up for the friendly atmosphere of PT.com. I agree that is a useful resource and I feel welcome here. That being said, Corner-carvers.com isn't The Lord Of The Flies and people turning up their noses at the way they run their board, without ever having visited it, is ridiculous. They don't haze newbies for the fun of it. There is a purpose. You may disagree with that purpose, but it does exist and it does exist for a valid reason.

[BonzoHansen]

CC aint ****. You ought to see the insanity at some live music trading sites. :scared: :hammer:

[baz67]

CC is a great site if you understand their rules. I visit often, but have contributed very little. The members there know their stuff. They state their rules up front and do not cut any slack. They do want people to do some research before posting. Is there anything wrong with that? How many "Are drop spindles good for first gen Camaros" questions do we see here? It is a simple search to find out the answer. They really do not like to deal questions like that. If you have done your homework and posted an intelligent question you will be flooded with more tech then you can handle.

Keep in mind it is their playground and you do not need to play in it if you do not like the rules.

[novanutcase]

Well said Baz.....although .......I will say that the tone they use in trying to inform someone to use the search button is a bit abrasive and I think we can all agree with that! For many a newbie, I would suspect, this is one of there first times posting on a forum or at least they aren't used to the regimented rules that CC dictates to it's newcomers so I agree with there rules in theory but I feel in practice they could be a little more tolerant.:nopity:

[Jim Nilsen]

You don't have to be friends to be friendly. I came up with that at work when the approach that was being use by a few was getting to the point of :box2:. Being a bit more proffesional always makes professionals look that way.

Simply telling someone where to go look for the info would be enough but making someone feel terrible about themselves is intimidating and lacks self respect.

I do feel that it is their website and if you don't like it don't show up just like the rest of the things in this world that people protest about but doesn't effect them. It's a big world and you don't have to complain to feel alive I would hope.

Sure is entertaining sometimes, I have to admit.

Jim Nilsen

[trapin]

Basically what I got from their COC rules is that I don't belong there. Fair enough. I shaln't go there again.

[novanutcase]

Just had a great time gettin' and giving flame at CC. Great fun! Boodlefoof PMed me some very useful info. Imagine a PT.com member being the only person that was able to give me really useful info. Hmmmmm.....Maybe a lesson to be learned here???!!!?? Are you listening CC(Probably not, there to busy flaming people!):)

[PeteRR]

I don't get it. You got 3 positive responses before you decided to stamp your feet and hold your breath. Are you aware the board was down for 4 days? I'm sorry if that inconvenienced you. I also noticed that you continued to get fed useful info even though you acted out for no good reason. Good luck with your project.

[novanutcase]

PeteRR!

Your right! I did get three positive responses but did you noticed how the tone changed after I ranted??!! The issue wasn't that my question was dumb! That would have been pointed out in the first responses to my question. It was after my rant that the pack mentality came out! Was all that "Jackassery" I got at all productive? Yes, I did recieve some great info and I stated it as such but all the other chaff that was being dished just didn't need to be! People on that site seem to think that if they know more than you then you don't belong on that site. I guess that means there should only be one person on the site and that is the one that knows more than everybody else. I find it perplexing that they would spend so much time pointing out how dumb I am when they could be doing other, more productive, things. I also get the feeling that these guys/gals regard this site as the holy grail and anyone that isn't a rocket scientist doesn't belong there. I find this pitiful as the site could be great if not for the "jackassery" that these people exemplify and you and they so desperately want to avoid. Now....I'm not trying to aim this squarely at you as you are only trying to explain why they do what they do but, honestly, does it have to be done like that? And, Yes, the Lord of the Flies mentality is VERY alive and well over there. The post I made about not getting anymore input was to see the reaction and well......need I say more??!! They acted like a bunch of school boys picking on the new kid for speaking against their sacred little shrine. I got the feeling that probably the minority that are the instigators of this type of behavior go hunting in the member registry for the low post members and just wait and see if they can flame them. It is so sad to see a group of people that so desperately clings to a site, of all things. My God! there are better things to rally against! Are their lives that empty?!!?? Wow.....Scary!

[ArizonaSpeed]

Long time CC member here (Racer_726)... but just found this great site, so I registered.... and hope to be able to contribute here, but most of all I hope to gain some knowledge, and share my enthusiasm for the sport.

Since the subject of this thread is CC.com... one thing that I can say for certain, all of the people that I have dealt with through the Classifieds over the years... and there were a lot of dealings... everyone without exception has been a class act to deal with. Otherwise on the internet, it seems to me about 50/50.

I'm glad it's back up. I troll there a lot, have for a very long time, and I truly have learned a lot. :drive1:

Dave

[chicane67]

:secret: Uh-oh.... they sent in a MOLE.













J/K Dave :moon:

[zbugger]

Did you say.... "Mole"????

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

did you say mole'

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/09/mguacamoleJPG-1.jpg

[Ralph LoGrasso]

This thread has run its course, this is not cc.com. Issues from that site need not be discussed here. Thread closed.