RTH2 Results Are In!

[Steve Chryssos]

The Pro-Touring.com Run Thru The Hills 2 event, brought to you by MuscleRides.com is now complete. The event included the following activities:
FRIDAY ACTIVITES
-Cruise through the great Smoky Mountains
-Southern style BBQ: Mainstay Suites
SATURDAY ACTIVITIES
-1/8 mile Drag Racing: 411 Dragway
SUNDAY ACTIVITIES
-Auto-X from Hell: 411 Speedway. This turned out to be the standout event of the weekend. The course was laid out on an actual track surface (not a dusty parking lot) with banked turns, high speed straightaways and cones set up to create gates, chicanes and hairpins throughout the track including the figure 8 infield. Overall length is "'oh 'bout a mile" (That's southern for "we're not exactly sure") The course doubles back over itself. Add in the infield sections and you can figure on 3/4 mile minimum. Here are the results:

MuscleRides.com Cruise and BBQ
While the typical Fall Grand Run cruisers were content to idle along in traffic, we headed up into the Smokies for some real driving on mountain roads. 57 cars started. 55 cars finished. Speeds were low due to the car count. So to avoid creating our own traffic jam, we broke up into groups . Scenery and roads were breathtaking to say the least. The two cars that "broke" failed right at the start of the cruise (in the parking lot), so there was no drama. Back at the hotel we jammed up the parking lot and then stuffed our faces. There was cake, too.

GPSuperStore.com Fastest Street Car Award
Conditions started out poor with dense fog. Surface was slick throughout the day. We also managed to blow up the 'cuda on it's second run. It did manage an 8.80 off the trailer, though. The 'cuda and Prodigy both suffered blown differentials on a side by side run. Rules dictated that the winner complete the Friday cruise and drive to the track under it's own power. Tire changes were permitted. Frank Serafine had a fastest run at 6.44. While Frank did participate in the cruise, he trailered the car to the strip, so his car was disallowed. The winner received a slick looking trophy. The pro-touring cars all spun down the track and ran 8's or slower.
WINNER: Jerry Balko, Dallas, TX 6.58@106mph. 1968 Street/Strip Camaro

AirRide Technolgies Auto-X from Hell
Autocross action was INSANE! We crashed a car. Following up his impressive first run, Billy Utley overcooked the turn that faced the track entrance and grandstands. He locked up the brakes on his beautiful 72 Nova and slid hard into the water barriers. Water splashed 50 FEET into the air! The resultant spray soaked the entire grandstands as well as other spectators and photographers. Billy walked away unscathed and the car suffered a damaged hood and fenders. We're all glad that Billy is unharmed. The crash set the tone for the event. This was a fast, challenging and dangerous course. The winner is a local hot shot with a heavily modified Z06 vette. Late model or not--this car definitely stops, steers, and accelerates better than stock. Even with the crazy "showboat" powerslides, no other car could hang with Shawn's Z06. The winner received a trophy and $100.
WINNER: Shawn Willocks Z06 Vette 57.523 sec

Prodigy Customs Camaro Challenge
Since there's so much heated benchracing about Camaro parts selection on message boards, we decided to single out a few f-bodies with a wide range of parts. First we rounded up a wide section of cars with varying front/rear suspension layouts, engine/trans combinations and wheel/tire choices. Then we simply tracked their times to thin out the list. We also included Billy Utley's Nova since the chassis layout is similar. Since he wrecked, we only had one run to collect--but it was a fast 67.677+1. Cars were allowed to run on their own. Cone penalties are included at 2 seconds per cone. At the end, we strapped Tony Bolton, the local hotshoe into the three fastest cars and let him loose to push for a final low number. Tony ran each of the cars as many times as possible until the trakc made us shut down the show. Cone penalties are factored in. If there is any conclusion it is that the performance was very similar. Despite variations in component selection (i.e. airbags or springs, stock clip or aftermarket, leaf spring or four link, etc.) all of the times are very close. The three fastest cars were as follows:

3rd Place: 1968 Camaro Steve Chryssos: 63.947 +1 = 65.947 sec.
2nd Place: 1971 Camaro Brett Voelkel: 64.186 sec.
WINNER: 1969 Camaro Kyle and Stacy Tucker: 64.107 sec.

In the end, we decided to give the trophy to Tony Bolton, who worked his ass off to drive these cars and a few others for us. He would hop out of one car and we would shove him in another. He had the time of his life in the process. Boy can he drive.

Thanks to everyone who participated, spectated, sponsored and helped run the show. While I'm biased, I'm confident that Larry, Bill, Melinda and I put on an awesome event. There was lots of action, cool cars and good times. It was great seeing and meeting all of you.
/Steevo

[andrewb70]

Nice job everyone! I don't do car shows, so this was THE event for me. Mark me down for next year.

Andrew

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Sounds like an awesome time!

[parsonsj]

It was an incredible time. I found a hot rod rental service (Andrew let me drive his kickass LS1-powered RX-7), so I was able to enjoy the autocross too. I've never seen an A/X so big and so fast. Cars were approaching 70 mph in places!

I had a chance to get the photo of the weekend, when Billy Utley's Nova was approaching the grandstands at a high rate of speed. I was inside the wall for some unobstructed photos and was almost directly in his path. Well ... instead of focusing and releasing the shutter, I dove out of the way and landed on my ass behind the wall. I guess I'm not cut out for war correspondence, lol.

jp

[Bow Tie 67]

Steve,

Kudo's to all who set this event up. Yes " Awesome " is the only way I would describe it. I only wish I could this every weekend.

[dropit69]

yeah was so awesome..even spectating the drag and autoxcross was fun..thanks to all who had a hand in the event..thanks to rubes ,matt,vicki for the caravan alot better to drive with others..hope the alternative route paid off for you guys..

[67LS1T56]

Can I have reservation for next year? lol. I will be there next year, sounds like lots of fun.

[Wildron]

what a great event.made alot of new freinds and seen some olds ones.thanks go out to every one who was involved in putting this together.i'll bring more lemonaide next time.

[Steve1968LS2]

Hazing the tires in the banked corner.. zoom zoom..

[Steve Chryssos]

After the show, Tony Bolton clicked off a 63.817 in the Air Ride Buick. So you could say that a big ol' airbag equipped A-body beat all of the Camaros. And I knw that a lot of you don't want to hear this, but the airbag cars ran hard, hooked up and ran with the metal spring cars.

Same holds true for other parts and systems. The top three cars have the following parts:
Rear suspension:
#3 Camaro: leaf spings
#2 Camaro: air bar
#1 Camaro: Quadra Link
Front Clip:
#3 Camaro: Aftermarket (modified)
#2 Camaro: Stock clip with Air Ride strong arms
#1 Camaro: DSE clip
Transmissions:
#3 Camaro: Manumatic
#2 Camaro: Manumatic
#1 Camaro: Manual

[andrewb70]

After the show, Tony Bolton clicked off a 63.817 in the Air Ride Buick. So you could say that a big ol' airbag equipped A-body beat all of the Camaros. And I knw that a lot of you don't want to hear this, but the airbag cars ran hard, hooked up and ran with the metal spring cars.

Same holds true for other parts and systems. The top three cars have the following parts:
Rear suspension:
#3 Camaro: leaf spings
#2 Camaro: air bar
#1 Camaro: Quadra Link
Front Clip:
#3 Camaro: Aftermarket (modified)
#2 Camaro: Stock clip with Air Ride strong arms
#1 Camaro: DSE clip
Transmissions:
#3 Camaro: Manumatic
#2 Camaro: Manumatic
#1 Camaro: Manual

To me what all that really means is that the biggest change that you can make to your car's performance is improve your driving skills. All this talk of what setup is best, what springs, what bushings, 4-link, 3-link, blah, blah, blah...All those variable translate to differences that are measured in fractions of a second at the track. Improvements in driver skill will translate to multiple seconds at the track.

Look at these cars:

1968 Camaro Steve Chryssos: 63.947 +1 = 65.947 sec.
1971 Camaro Brett Voelkel: 64.186 sec.
1969 Camaro Kyle and Stacy Tucker: 64.107 sec.
Buick 63.817

All the cars listed above are very different yet they all ran very similar times. The common variable between them is the driver.

Andrew

[ProdigyCustoms]

I am a believer now. Brent is doing a awesome job of putting his money where his mouth is. They beat the crap out of those cars. Team Air Ride was pretty damn impressive with some killer cars and a sharp crew. They really put on a show.

[David Sloan]

Man What a killer event!!!
I cant wait till next year. If we can pull it off we will have my daughter's 73 camaro there.
Thanks to everyone for a great time. It was good meeting so many of you an seeing some of the face's from other events last year.
Thanks

[Tony Bolton]

All the cars listed above are very different yet they all ran very similar times. The common variable between them is the driver.

Andrew That right there pretty much sums it up for me, as the driver of the said cars. I never had that "strange car" feeling hoping from one car to the next. I will say that the light blue Chevelle that I drove from AirRide had to be one the most plush PERFORMANCE rides i've ever driven. I do believe it turned times in the 64's as well, but what stood out was the comfort. Maybe it was the actual seat, but I think the suspension played a big part as well. I've run on this track a bunch and pretty much know where the bumps/dips/drops are gonna be and I honestly didn't notice them with this car.

[rocketrod]

After the show, Tony Bolton clicked off a 63.817 in the Air Ride Buick. So you could say that a big ol' airbag equipped A-body beat all of the Camaros. And I knw that a lot of you don't want to hear this, but the airbag cars ran hard, hooked up and ran with the metal spring cars.

Same holds true for other parts and systems. The top three cars have the following parts:
Rear suspension:
#3 Camaro: leaf spings
#2 Camaro: air bar
#1 Camaro: Quadra Link
Front Clip:
#3 Camaro: Aftermarket (modified)
#2 Camaro: Stock clip with Air Ride strong arms
#1 Camaro: DSE clip
Transmissions:
#3 Camaro: Manumatic
#2 Camaro: Manumatic
#1 Camaro: Manual
Was the engine HP & Torque estimates similar for the top three?

[hotrdblder]

yes i know steevos is 480-500 flywheel, and dse's and air rides 2nd gen were not much more if any by seeing them run, probaly the top three were 450-525 hp at flywheel

[67SSDan]

To me what all that really means is that the biggest change that you can make to your car's performance is improve your driving skills. All this talk of what setup is best, what springs, what bushings, 4-link, 3-link, blah, blah, blah...All those variable translate to differences that are measured in fractions of a second at the track. Improvements in driver skill will translate to multiple seconds at the track.

Look at these cars:

1968 Camaro Steve Chryssos: 63.947 +1 = 65.947 sec.
1971 Camaro Brett Voelkel: 64.186 sec.
1969 Camaro Kyle and Stacy Tucker: 64.107 sec.
Buick 63.817

All the cars listed above are very different yet they all ran very similar times. The common variable between them is the driver.

Andrew

Well said.

[DJW32]

Steve,
Thanks for the information! Is someone going to list all of the times run this weekend? Congrats on your 3rd place

[Steve Chryssos]

Here's the top ten fastest runs.
STICKY TIRES:
Z06 Vette: 57.523 (Owner Shawn Willocks - Car#129)
4th Gen Vert: 63.334 (Owner: Chris McHarge (sp?)Car#73)
STREET TIRES:
1) 70 Air Ride GSX: 63.817 (Owner Bret Voelkel - Car#2)
2) 69 DSE Camaro: 64.107 (Owner Kyle & Stacy - Car#8)
3) 71 Air Ride Camaro: 64.186 (Owner Bret Voelkel - Car#52)
4) 67 Air Ride Chevelle: 64.318 (Owner: Bret Voelkel - Car#21)
5) 95 Camaro WS6: 64.920 (Owner: Matt Altamore - Car#16)
6) 89 Mustang: 65.239(Owner Brandon Wiedeman - Car#9)
7) 68 Twist Camaro: 63.947+1 = 65.947 (Owner: Steve Chryssos - Car#72)
8) LS1 RX7: 66.023 (Owner Andrew Borodin - Car#007) 3150lbs w/driver, 375 RWHP
9) 81 MuscleRides Malibu: 66.788 (Owner Bill Howell - Car #19
10) 2001 Z28 Coupe 66.828 (Owner Ryan Jarrard - Car#24)

[Steve Chryssos]

Was the engine HP & Torque estimates similar for the top three?

That's the sort of question I'd like to see more of in this thread. The answer here is yes. The two Air Ride Chevy's, my car and the DSE car all had very similar small blocks. In fact, the two Air Ride Chevy cars have the exact same spec engine--carburetor and all. The Air Ride Buick has more power and torque from a custom built engine, but also quite a bit more heft. The 71Z is a fairly heavy car as well.

[andrewb70]

That's the sort of question I'd like to see more of in this thread. The answer here is yes. The two Air Ride Chevy's, my car and the DSE car all had very similar small blocks. In fact, the two Air Ride Chevy cars have the exact same spec engine--carburetor and all. The Air Ride Buick has more power and torque from a custom built engine, but also quite a bit more heft. The 71Z is a fairly heavy car as well.

I edited the top ten list to include my weight and rwhp. If anyone knows more specific numbers for any of the other cars, I can update the list.

Andrew

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve,
Thanks for the information! Is someone going to list all of the times run this weekend? Congrats on your 3rd place

Thanks, but my third place Camaro Challenge finish drops to 7th overall when you factor in the cone penalty. We did not get a clean 63 second run. We stopped running the car. I climbed underneath to adjust my rear shocks and found gear oil had spewed from the vent hose. That wouldn't be a big deal except for the fact that the dumb-ass who built the car (me) had aimed the vent hose DIRECTLY at the driver's side rear wheel and brake caliper!! The brake pad was covered with oil. I was happy with the time, so I parked it.

Wouldnt look right If I won my own show anyway. But Tony says it's a solid 63 second car--automatic and all, so I'm happy. Next year I'll bring two sets of tires and some adjustable front stay-bars. I want my car to run a 61. That is what Tony Bolton will pull in his relatively stock Mustang after 100's of runs.

[Damn True]

What was the tire differential between the three?

[ilovefirstgens]

Damn, im really dissapointed prodigy didnt make it to the autox, it would have been interesting to see the times despite it being a vert.

And what does "stcky tires" entail, full blown slicks, dot comp tires what?

Im a bit dissapointed there is a over 6 second gap between a z06 and something like the dse Camaro...

[Steve1968LS2]

Damn, im really dissapointed prodigy didnt make it to the autox, it would have been interesting to see the times despite it being a vert.

And what does "stcky tires" entail, full blown slicks, dot comp tires what?

Im a bit dissapointed there is a over 6 second gap between a z06 and something like the dse Camaro...

The Z06 was running Hoosier RACE tires (slicks, not street legal), had a driver that KNEW the track and well.. was a Z06.. lol

Kyle had radial DOT street tires and was a newbie at the track.. I doubt he has driven on many figure 8 banked auto-x tracks.. lol (who has besides the locals??)

All the top guys should be VERY proud of thier cars.. this wasn't an easy track..

[Steve Chryssos]

What was the tire differential between the three?

Camaro Challenge?
1st Place: Michelin Pilot Sports 275/335
2nd Place: B.F. Goodrich KD Sport 245/275
3rd Place: Nitto NT555 255/285

Kyle's car suffered some front wheel lock up at the limit. Could be a brake bias issue; Could be those monster 335's don't "slip" enough to get the car turning. Could be both. On runs where Tony and Kyle backed off on the brakes a tad, the car turned better. The tires could handle more speed.

[Tony Bolton]

The 1st place Z06 was an "MTi Prepared car" car(big Corvetter hopper-upper place I believe). I'm not 100% on some of the stuff, but I do know it has a fully adjustable suspension(i'm wanting to say MOTON's?), rear gear upgrade, a 383 stroker motor(450-ish WHP), and a killer set of Wilwood brakes.

The tires are D.O.T. tires, about like a "drag radial" is. They are Hoosier A6's, mounted on OE Z06 rims(315's and 335's I believe).

What created the large gap was the fact that the cars from here were running your typical street tire. Albeit a great tire, but nothing on the level of a full autocross tire.

At that course, a highly prepared car(like the ones brought down)could benefit as much as 4 to 5 full seconds on a set of equal tires to the Z06.

A big part of that kind of tire not only applies to the cornering grip, but also the braking grip. I found myself skipping the tire on a few of the cars going into the braking zones.

Not taking anything away from Shawn(Z06 driver), he's on a pretty high level when it comes to driving ability. I told Steve if the TWIST MACHINE was running same tires, only R-compound's, I could've put that car in the 59's no problem......58's on a last run/final attempt.

Tire really make a difference there. I know Shawn went from 62 seconds on a lesser tire, to his current mid 57's just by switching tires. :)

[Damn True]

Impressive stuff.

Steve, did you have an auto-x sort of alignment on the car? I.E. 0 toe if not some positive toe etc.

[Steve1968LS2]

Were those tires shaved? I though you had to have SOME grooves to be a real DOT street tire.. lol

I would love to see the DSE or other top finisher run the track on the same tires as the Z06.. bet it would knock a bit off ;)

[Steve Chryssos]

Impressive stuff.

Steve, did you have an auto-x sort of alignment on the car? I.E. 0 toe if not some positive toe etc.

ALWAYS.:lmao:

[trapin]

I have a couple questions, did anyone participate in the autoX event in a first gen with a stock subframe? If so, did Tony drive that and how did it fare? Was it's weight and horsepower comparable to the other first gens in the field that were running the aftermarket systems?

[novanutcase]

Hmmmmmm........Air-Ride huh??!!!? Maybe I will look into this seeing as how they seem to have gotten their product down and obviously the numbers are proving this.

[Tony Bolton]

Were those tires shaved? I though you had to have SOME grooves to be a real DOT street tire.. lol

I would love to see the DSE or other top finisher run the track on the same tires as the Z06.. bet it would knock a bit off ;) It's got a couple grooves in it, just like the Kumho V710 tires I run. Tires don't need to be shaved, but they do need to be heat cycled(think rolled on a hot drum to allow the rubber to expand and reform to establish grip and shape). My car(that 240hp Mustang)has run that course at 61.01 seconds, best of. I did some exhibition/demonstration runs in my car on a GREAT street tire and was running like high 63's or low 64's. Now, my car probably has THE LEAST hp of any car there, and thanks to just a set of sticky tires, i'm able to mix it up with greater cars. The tire type is even more of a factor on higher prepared machines. Just imagine John Forces top fuel funny car if it had some BFG KDW's or something on it!!! :)

[BonzoHansen]

Nice reviews guys. Sounds like fun.

This reminds me of something an 'old-timer' told me: Brakes don't stop the car, they only stop the wheel. The tires stop the car. Only the tires touch the road.

[Steve Chryssos]

I have a couple questions, did anyone participate in the autoX event in a first gen with a stock subframe? If so, did Tony drive that and how did it fare? Was it's weight and horsepower comparable to the other first gens in the field that were running the aftermarket systems?

None of the stock clip cars ran sub 70 second times. The exception is the Nova--which is comparable to an F-body. It crashed, so there was no chance for Tony to run that car. It had full blown level 3 DSE suspension. Maybe Tony could have pulled a 63 if he had the cnahce to run it. Steve Moore left early, Jason Huber had to leave so early that he never ran, and David Sloan passed on having Tony drive his car.
Given a low estimate, Tony was able to shave 6 seconds off of every car (except Kyle who actually knows how to drive). David Sloan's car went 73.544 which means that Tony probably could have pulled a 66 or 67 out of it. Trust me--If Bill's hefty 81 Malibu can pull a 66.788 on skinny tires, your Camaro can do it. The stock clip cars work fine.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE LEARNED AT RTH2 FOLKS
Tires and driver. Say it with me peoples. Tires and driver. Beyond that, Pro-Touring cars and and pro-touring parts are fairly equal. On street tires, the difference between all of our cars is a second here or there on the AxH track. And on the street, the distinction is downright negligible. Buy what you like and can afford.

p.s. If you want to run a sub 65 at next year's AutoX from Hell, you had better bring minimum R compound street tires and some real safety gear or you might crash and get hurt. I'm not kidding. Otherwise plan on running a 65-plus. You'll have a blast.

[trapin]

What's really amazing is how well that Air Ride Tech stuff does in competition. I'm very impressed. Thanks for all the great feedback.

[Steve Chryssos]

Was it's weight and horsepower comparable to the other first gens in the field that were running the aftermarket systems?

All the cars had comparable power. A big power car would have crashed and burned. If it was lucky enough to not crash and burn, we would have probably kicked it off the track for being uncontrollable. I think the most powerful car there was the yellow second gen. This car beat the 'cuda at the G-G Nashville AutoX. Just as he was starting to really :drive2: scare us, his ignition quit.

Big power and walls do not go well together. Just watch the video in the link below. Wave at your computer when you hear the beep.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5075666807090595776&hl=en

[JEFFTATE]

Yes! Tires and experience make a big difference .
I couldn't agree more.
How can we get even more autocross time next year ?
Maybe a whole weekend autocross event ?

[Damn True]

In the meantime: http://www.scca.org/Solo/Solo.asp?IdS=01ECF8-1E141B0&x=050|010&~=

[Steve Chryssos]

Yes! Tires and experience make a big difference .
I couldn't agree more.
How can we get even more autocross time next year ?
Maybe a whole weekend autocross event ?

We're thinkin about it Jeff. The alternatives are to swap days and do drag racing on Sunday--OR--rent the whole joint for the weekend and let people go from one track to the other as they wish. But I GUESSTIMATE that securing the track for the entire weekend would jack the entry fees from $10 to $100-plus. If that's the case, we'll make sure you get your money's worth with racing and live music n food at the track in the evening. Booze would probably be outlawed for safety reasons. Can't have people racing with a buzz or worse.

[Steve1968LS2]

What's really amazing is how well that Air Ride Tech stuff does in competition. I'm very impressed. Thanks for all the great feedback.

Tony had VERY favorable things to say about the Air Ride Tech equipped cars.. That stuff DOES work.

However.. not all air "bag" systems equate.. I only look at the ART stuff as being "performance" all the other stuff is strictly show.

Now we need to trailer Penny and g/28 out there for next years gig :)

Think we could talk Tony into showing up again to drive?? :Alchy:

[Tony Bolton]

Think we could talk Tony into showing up again to drive?? :Alchy:


I think i'll suddenly come down with some disease like that "Bubble Boy" that couldn't survive outside his bubble. Only my illness will force me to stay behind the wheel of a PT car 24/7!!! Oh such torture!!!! :)

[bret]

The GSX has a 455 that made 530hp @ 5800 The car weighs 3950 without driver. It has a 275-40/18 rear and a 245-40/18 front BF Goodrich G Force tires.
The 66 Chevelle has a Jasper 383 w/ aluminum heads that made 430hp @ 6000. It has a 700R4 transmission. It has a 275-40/17 rear and a 245-40/17 front BF Goodrich G Force tire. I have not yet weighed this car.
The 71 Camaro also has an identical Jasper 383 with a 4L60e trans. It has the same size tires as the GSX except they are the BF Goodrich KDW. It weighs around 3650 without driver.

We took the GSX and the black Camaro on the Power Tour this year in their existing trim. The GSX actually has over 10,000 miles this year...I drive it back and forth to work.

I agree with Tony that the Chevelle has to be the easiest car I have ever driven. the cool thing is that all of these cars are using off the shelf parts and street alignment settings. All we had to do to go home was turn the shocks back down and re-fuel!

[Tony Bolton]

I'll also add that the front tires on these HEAVY machines indicated zero to very little tire roll-over. At this particular event/course, tire rollover is a real issue(I know mine is subject to that).

However, these cars had such a good working suspension that rollover was not the issue I first expected it to be. Well, except Bills 81 Malibu that had like 17lbs in the back Nitto drag radials! HA! I put 40 in there next outting it was good.

Lastly, I never felt that the car I was piloting was over 3500lbs. The car just did everything good. Brake dive wasn't there, excessive sway......nope. The tires stayed in contact with the surface and soaked up any imperfections without letting me feel them.

Just great setup cars from valve stem to head liners!!!

[69rs]

None of the stock clip cars ran sub 70 second times. The exception is the Nova--which is comparable to an F-body. It crashed, so there was no chance for Tony to run that car. It had full blown level 3 DSE suspension. Maybe Tony could have pulled a 63 if he had the cnahce to run it. Steve Moore left early, Jason Huber had to leave so early that he never ran, and David Sloan passed on having Tony drive his car.
Given a low estimate, Tony was able to shave 6 seconds off of every car (except Kyle who actually knows how to drive). David Sloan's car went 73.544 which means that Tony probably could have pulled a 66 or 67 out of it. Trust me--If Bill's hefty 81 Malibu can pull a 66.788 on skinny tires, your Camaro can do it. The stock clip cars work fine.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE LEARNED AT RTH2 FOLKS
Tires and driver. Say it with me peoples. Tires and driver. Beyond that, Pro-Touring cars and and pro-touring parts are fairly equal. On street tires, the difference between all of our cars is a second here or there on the AxH track. And on the street, the distinction is downright negligible. Buy what you like and can afford.

p.s. If you want to run a sub 65 at next year's AutoX from Hell, you had better bring minimum R compound street tires and some real safety gear or you might crash and get hurt. I'm not kidding. Otherwise plan on running a 65-plus. You'll have a blast.
David has a stock subframe with coilovers.
I have a stock subframe with 700lb. Landrum springs and Edelbrock shocks and a mild 350 / 4 speed. I had a best of 69.461. I wish I had asked Tony to drive mine!

[BA.]

None of the stock clip cars ran sub 70 second times. The exception is the Nova--which is comparable to an F-body.


Just checking here, but didn't the blue 69 SS/RS Camaro 'Vert run some 68's? (chrom 18's and an LS1 & 6 speed)


I thought he (Philip) had a stock clip, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

[Bill Howell]

Just checking here, but didn't the blue 69 SS/RS Camaro 'Vert run some 68's? (chrom 18's and an LS1 & 6 speed)


I thought he (Philip) had a stock clip, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

The results I have show Phillip (69 speed) ran a best time of 74.475
Hopefully he will chime in if I missed something.

[trapin]

I gotta save some vacation time for this next year. My friends and I are planning what we call "The Big Three" next year. Year One Event...Columbus Goodguys...and Pigeon Forge.

Bill...Steve...next year if my car is not there, I'll do the barbecuing if you rent the whole track for a day next year. That'll save you some money on overhead. I can barbecue with the best of em.

[Steve Chryssos]

.....I had a best of 69.461. I wish I had asked Tony to drive mine!

Jim,
I'm sorry for misrepresentig your times. I was still sorting out the data. Spoke too soon.
Here is the complete list for all who have times:
Time Penalty Net Car Car
Rank Time Owner # Car Type
STICKY TIRES
1 57.523 0 0 57.523 Shawn Willocks 129
2 63.334 0 0 63.334 Chris McHarge 73

STREET TIRES
1 63.817 0 0 63.817 Team Air Ride 2 71 Buick GSX
2 64.303 0 0 64.106 Team DSE 8 69 Camaro
3 64.186 0 0 64.186 Team Air Ride 52 71 Gen Camaro
4 64.318 0 0 64.318 Team Air Ride 21 66 Chevelle
5 64.920 0 0 64.92 Matt Altamore 16 4th Gen Camaro
6 65.239 0 0 65.239 B. Wiedeman 9 89 Mustang
7 63.947 1 2 65.947 Steve Chryssos 72 68 Camaro
8 66.023 0 0 66.023 Andrew Borodin 007 RX7
9 66.788 0 0 66.788 Bill Howell 19 81 Malibu
10 64.828 1 2 66.828 Ryan Jarrard 24 4th Gen Camaro
11 67.102 0 0 67.102 Kelly 79 Impala SS
12 67.382 0 0 67.382 Mike Goins 71 4th Gen Camaro
13 68.310 0 0 68.310 Phillip Cornette 0 69 Camaro Vert
14 69.460 0 0 69.461 Jim Grayson 7 69 Camaro
15 67.677 1 2 69.677 Billy Utley 1 72 Nova
16 70.083 0 0 70.083 Daniel Maynor 70 03 Mustang Cobra
17 70.223 0 0 70.223 John Parsons 007 RX7
18 70.689 0 0 70.689 Heath Hays 29 69 Chevelle
19 71.020 0 0 71.02 Bill H's Bro 191 81 Malibu
20 71.486 0 0 71.486 Stacy Tucker 8B 69 Camaro
21 68.047 2 4 72.047 No Name 551 Porsche??
22 72.331 0 0 72.331 Brian Finch 133 71 Camaro
23 72.409 0 0 72.409 Steven Rogers 32 C6 Vette
24 72.635 0 0 72.635 Jeremy Lee 36 00 Mustang GT
25 72.836 0 0 72.836 NO Name 229 Unknown
26 73.544 0 0 73.544 David Sloan 5 69 Camaro
27 74.475 0 0 74.475 Jeff" Tate 20 69 Camaro
28 126.029 0 0 126.029 Brittney Alteza 28 Mercury Comet

[Steve Chryssos]

The results I have show Phillip (69 speed) ran a best time of 74.475
Hopefully he will chime in if I missed something.

You missed something. 74.475 was car #20, Jeff Tate. Phillip was car zero.

[ilovefirstgens]

The Z06 was running Hoosier RACE tires (slicks, not street legal), had a driver that KNEW the track and well.. was a Z06.. lol

Kyle had radial DOT street tires and was a newbie at the track.. I doubt he has driven on many figure 8 banked auto-x tracks.. lol (who has besides the locals??)

All the top guys should be VERY proud of thier cars.. this wasn't an easy track..

Okay that makes a TON of difference, i assumed that some of the guys would atleast have r compound tires.

And wasnt the deal that they had to drive there to count, not being dot legal tires i dont see how thats fair...

This is why im happy to have cheap wheels, ill have a set of decent street tires and some nice sticky comp tires!

though thats if/when i ever get to be a good enough driver to necessitate it.:drive2:

[andrewb70]

Okay that makes a TON of difference, i assumed that some of the guys would atleast have r compound tires.

And wasnt the deal that they had to drive there to count, not being dot legal tires i dont see how thats fair...

This is why im happy to have cheap wheels, ill have a set of decent street tires and some nice sticky comp tires!

though thats if/when i ever get to be a good enough driver to necessitate it.:drive2:

For the record, this was not a competition. The times were recorded for the owners benefit. The point was to bring your car, drive it, meet people, and hang out. Mission accomplished.

Andrew

[Steve1968LS2]

Okay that makes a TON of difference, i assumed that some of the guys would atleast have r compound tires.

And wasnt the deal that they had to drive there to count, not being dot legal tires i dont see how thats fair...

This is why im happy to have cheap wheels, ill have a set of decent street tires and some nice sticky comp tires!

though thats if/when i ever get to be a good enough driver to necessitate it.:drive2:
I was corrected.. they were DOT legal.. however they had zero groove (that I saw)..

Im pretty sure it was driven there. None of the regular cars had R-compound tires.. maybe next year :)

[andrewb70]

Im pretty sure it was driven there.

The red C5? It came in a big trailer.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

For the record, this was not a competition. The times were recorded for the owners benefit. The point was to bring your car, drive it, meet people, and hang out. Mission accomplished.Amen. During the driver's briefing, Tony Bolton said it best: "you're racing yourselves. The idea is to go faster each time." I think everybody did.

And as an aside, if you couldn't bring your own car, talk a friend into letting you drive his!

jp

[DJW32]

Steve,
The vids are amazing! Thanks for the link!
It looks like everyone had a good time

[andrewb70]

Steve,
The vids are amazing! Thanks for the link!
It looks like everyone had a good time

What link?

Andrew

[BA.]

SOMEBODY who shall remain nameless 69SPEED had the balls 69SPEED to let me drive their 69SPEED super-sweet blue 69 SS/RS convertible in town during a 69SPEED lunch break! :hail:
My own 69 has been off the road for 15+ years so it was a SUPER-THRILL for me to pilot a 69 again, and a super nice one at that!

Cool stuff like that happened for the AUTO-X also and just goes to show you what a great group of guys are at this board!!!

[Damn True]

All the cars had comparable power. A big power car would have crashed and burned. If it was lucky enough to not crash and burn, we would have probably kicked it off the track for being uncontrollable. I think the most powerful car there was the yellow second gen. This car beat the 'cuda at the G-G Nashville AutoX. Just as he was starting to really :drive2: scare us, his ignition quit.

Big power and walls do not go well together. Just watch the video in the link below. Wave at your computer when you hear the beep.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5075666807090595776&hl=en


Nice stuff Steve. The car looks great, and the lines you took were pretty consistant. What's with the horn? Were you being a wise-guy, or was there an electrical glitch?

BTW, the car sounds nice and mellow. Just my style. What mufflers are you running?

[Steve Chryssos]

Nice stuff Steve. The car looks great, and the lines you took were pretty consistant. What's with the horn? Were you being a wise-guy, or was there an electrical glitch?

BTW, the car sounds nice and mellow. Just my style. What mufflers are you running?

That's Tony Bolton driving. Most likely the 65.090 run. The horn is demonically possessed. Haven't taken it apart to find out why. Most likely some worn insulation since the problem was sporadic. But the crowd loved it! Mufflers are flowmaster 2 chamber 40's. The hedman H-pipe mellowed things down a tad.

[Steve Chryssos]

.....And wasnt the deal that they had to drive there to count, not being dot legal tires i dont see how thats fair.......

That was the drag race rule. No need for limitations with the Auto-X. Unlike drag slicks, R compound tires are streetable. Furthermore, the course itself goes left, right, and straight-plus banks. If you can run that course, you can make it to the grocery store. If someone shows up next year with a Pike's Peak car, we will isolate it from the trophy on an individual basis. The track is the regulator.

[Bow Tie 67]

I was talking with the R compound guys, who were both local. Turns out on Friday after the rest stop in the smokey's I exited just behind the Vette and Camaro. I'll tell you that was too much fun. Those guys knew the roads and hit it hard. We were able to make roughly 10 corners at good speed before hitting other traffic. Vicki was yelling from the passenger seat to slow down.

Disclamer : at no time did we exceed any posted speed limits. ( then again I never did see any posted limits )

[David Sloan]

We went a 73.544 LOL!!! The big factor here was driver for sure!!LOL!
Not ever doing a auto x before this an trying to make the richmand trans shift.
The track was a blast, But was a little confusing when trying to drive hard. I ran circle track before so that is what i wanted to do the 1st lap.LOL!!!
I know the car will do better.
We had to leave after the 1st set of runs.
Cant wait till next year. I would really like to get some pointers from Tony Bolton.
Thanks for a great time!!

[David Sloan]

We're thinkin about it Jeff. The alternatives are to swap days and do drag racing on Sunday--OR--rent the whole joint for the weekend and let people go from one track to the other as they wish. But I GUESSTIMATE that securing the track for the entire weekend would jack the entry fees from $10 to $100-plus. If that's the case, we'll make sure you get your money's worth with racing and live music n food at the track in the evening. Booze would probably be outlawed for safety reasons. Can't have people racing with a buzz or worse.

I for one would pay a $100 to run the autox the hole weekend!!!
Maybe then we could learn something!LOL!!!

[TonyBolton]

What we(well I remember the PCA(Porsche Club of America)doing one time was doing a test'n'tune on Saturday, and then doing the actuall event on Sunday.

It was pretty nice. I had a different car at the time that had adjustable shocks/coilovers and adj. swaybars. we got a crap-load of runs and it really helped me dial that car in and figure out what works and what doesn't. On the Mustang I have now, I don't really have any adjustments to play with, save for a panhard bar, but just working with different tire pressure's can yeild great benefits in itself.

I believe we paid something like 70$ for both days, or 35$ for one day(Saturday or Sunday).

Now keep in mind that we can run that area with ANY COURSE you guys can dream up. We just tend to run this one the same as it gives people like a "DYNO" for their suspension. I remember when I was running 65's in the bone-stock Mustang. I've only added about 10whp to the car, and focused more on tires and suspension. I've managed to shave off 4+ seconds by driving style, and minor suspension upgrades. No extra hp, really.

I've ran different type courses there, change is good but it's what ever the majority would like to do.

[JEFFTATE]

Well, I was the slowest guy out there.
But, it sure was fun. There's only one way to go and thats up.
Maybe next year I will learn to drive and have more confidence in my equipment. Thanks to Jim for navigating or I would have DNF'd.
I would be willing to pay $100 plus for three days of autocross.

[DJW32]

Andrew,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...90595776&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5075666807090595776&hl=en)


What link?

Andrew

[Bill Howell]

Anyone notice who the flagman is? We make everyone work at our events.....lol

[67SSDan]

Damn, im really dissapointed prodigy didnt make it to the autox, it would have been interesting to see the times despite it being a vert.

And what does "stcky tires" entail, full blown slicks, dot comp tires what?

Im a bit dissapointed there is a over 6 second gap between a z06 and something like the dse Camaro...

Something to note here... I was talking to some of the locals over on another forum and the last time they held that event there was a brand new Z06 up there... that I think was relatively stock.. and it ran a best of 65 something. That 30 yr old (heavily modified) DSE car sounds pretty freaking good to me...

[01badz28]

Jim,
I'm sorry for misrepresentig your times. I was still sorting out the data. Spoke too soon.
Here is the complete list for all who have times:
Time Penalty Net Car Car
Rank Time Owner # Car Type
STICKY TIRES
1 57.523 0 0 57.523 Shawn Willocks 129
2 63.334 0 0 63.334 Chris McHarge 73

STREET TIRES
10 64.828 1 2 66.828 Ryan Jarrard 24 4th Gen Camaro


Well, actually I was on R compounds :nopity: for all the good it did!

Bow Tie 67, I meant to ask you at the event - where did you get the cage for the orange car?

[MonzaRacer]

Well as I have just joined up after seeing the mail from ART I had to check things out and you guys eem to be going at a similar way of thinking as I am .
I bult my 78 C10 with cool ride and parallel 4 link and it has been a trip and a half . First thing on somethinglike this measure,measure,measure.
But I first found out that air ride would turn and burn and drag in my 71 Monte Carlo after replacing my rear springs just before the 98 East Coast Power Tour. When I draged my car in 2000 the 60 foot time were dead consistant. So afte rstarting to have problems with my hip I broke in a car accidentI decided to lower my truck.
and about 3 mo after droping it I was on my way to work throught som hilly /twisty roads and got the a$$ of a 01 Camaro that I knew had some mods and I stuck with him through all of the funstuff,with a C10 pick up and no real great tires/wheels (yet) so yes air ride can be a great handling mod.
I am working on some Hbosy mods for the Monza and I am picking up a 85 GP that will ahve some suspension mods and my 402 BBC.
From even back in 98 going to Mooresville NC from Indiana I found they air ride unparalleled compared to simple springs, loaded or unloaded all I did was change preasure to retain ride height and handling and load capacity,,, very cool.
I hope to get to mix it up in the future on some courses with afew of you people,,, but I dont have flashy super high dollar cars just my puny excuse for cars,,, they may be ugly or rough but they will usually run good and hopefully handle even better and be safe.
And never undersetimate a good air suspension.
And since I work for Bridgestone/Firestone I do get access to some sweet tires such as SO-3 Pole Positions! Hopefully I can get my vehicles done soon and get to play.
Awesome job on video and organization.
Hopefully I can get a chance to try it out some time.
Lee

[Bill Howell]

Welcome aboard Lee,
Sounds like you will fit right in here. We do allow shiny cars here, but only if the owners actually use them....lol
The air ride system is really impressive and very nice set up also. Hopefully you can make the next event.
Question, you said GP, I am guessing G-body Grand Prix? If so, check up my malibu, the new ATX spindles really woke my car up.

[Bow Tie 67]

Well, actually I was on R compounds :nopity: for all the good it did!

Bow Tie 67, I meant to ask you at the event - where did you get the cage for the orange car?

I don't have a cage, only a harness bar. I bought it used off a forum. I believe LG motorsports makes them.