LS7 (1) v.s. IRS Half Shaft (0) [Archive]

PhillipM

08-23-2006, 03:57 PM

Well after getting the LS7 into the camaro we took it for a few initial hot laps around the shop and thought that we broke the transmission.. It was making this horrid grinding noise. Come to find out it wasn't the transmission after all!!:3gears:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/08/DSC01672Medium-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/08/DSC01671Medium-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/03/Phil096-1.jpg

zbugger

08-23-2006, 04:51 PM

Damn.... That is quite impressive. I'm guessing there's no traction issues? 'Cuz it looks like it hooked. Hard.

BA.

08-23-2006, 05:13 PM

THAT AIN'T SQUAT!!!! .......oh wait a minute, ...yes it is.

guess you were havin' fun!

PhillipM

08-23-2006, 06:15 PM

I think maybe the new springs help it hook a little better. I broke it on the 1st to 2nd shift at about 60. Holey crap these cammed LS7's move!!! 470 RWHP just gets it :woot:

datsbad

08-23-2006, 06:19 PM

That is a sweet looking car !

olds87

08-23-2006, 07:08 PM

Are you going to have the car at the Good Guys auto show in scottsdale, AZ?

DJW32

08-23-2006, 09:09 PM

I'm at a loss for words... solid car!

Is there a website for this build?

PairOf69's

08-24-2006, 05:16 AM

Wasn't that car in Popular Hot Rodding a while back?

andrewb70

08-24-2006, 06:04 AM

Wasn't that car in Popular Hot Rodding a while back?

Yes!

Phillip,

Welcome to the frustrating world of high HP and IRS. I think some nice Chromoly half shafts are in your future. I am not a fan of the aluminum shaft. They all fail right where yours failed. Right next to the weld. This is because the welding makes the aluminum brittle. Make sure you don't get any wheel hop! That will break parts faster than anything else.

Andrew

PhillipM

08-24-2006, 11:21 AM

andrewb70

08-24-2006, 11:32 AM

Yes we will be at Goodguys this year. The car is kind of funny out there because it is kind of understated so not many people look at it. Thats okay understated is where its at!:cheers:

andrewb70- Would it be better to go with chromoloy or carbon fibre. I was told that carbon fibre would give a little bit and last longer?? What do you think?

Phillip,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think on the C4 suspension system, the half shafts also act as the upper control arm link. So there is not only a rotational load on the halfshafts, but there is also a constant lateral load. I am not sure that a carbon shaft is designed for that kind of application. The chromoly would also probably be less than half the price of carbon.

Andrew

olds87

08-24-2006, 12:01 PM

Last year at the show, I was the one who ask you about the engine in that car.

PhillipM

08-24-2006, 04:18 PM

andrewb70- Yes you are correct in that the half shaft acts as the link. I see what you are saying about the loading on it. I will have to do more research on this. Can you recomend a company for the chromoloy?? I just have a feeling when we put some road race tires on this beast this is going to happen again because my dad is a mad man at the track:doh:

olds87- you'll definatly have to stop by again and check out the LS7. The ASA cam sounds awesome in there too :bananna2:

andrewb70

08-24-2006, 04:45 PM

Steve68

08-24-2006, 04:55 PM

Car look great!!! let us in on the LS7, cam mods, etcetc,

olds87

08-24-2006, 05:06 PM

I will definitely be there to check out your car again.

PhillipM

08-24-2006, 05:15 PM

Mark Williams huh. I will check that out! Thanks

When we got the motor we tore it down and sent the rods and pistons to Katech and they put forged pistons on it along with some upgraded bearings. The cam that we are running is just the GM ASA showroom stock cam but it is a pretty stout cam. Were running a mefi4 computer and throttle body both from UMI. So far it runs pretty good except I havent been beyond 2nd gear yet. As for the oil pan we cut the front 4 inches or so off and hand made a new front for the pan. That was a royal pain but it turned out really nice. Driving a car with this cam in it is crazy, nothing really starts happening until about 3 grand and then it's hang on all the way to 7200. woo hoo!!

Steve68

08-24-2006, 06:34 PM

What are the specs, sounds like fun,

Obsin71Ls1

08-25-2006, 06:30 AM

is that a dana 44 or 36? I thought the C4 rearends could put up with torque #s in the mid-upper 400s lbs! range

SLO 65

08-25-2006, 06:41 AM

Phillip,

Car Creations Inc. in California sells carbon fiber halfshafts for the C4 IRS - $810 w/ forged yokes. Call and talk to Paul. He was a suspension engineer for GM and also built several race cars, he could tell you if CF will solve your problem.

http://www.carcreationsinc.com/html_2/contact.html

Nick

zman1969

08-25-2006, 09:45 AM

I say your car the night before the Power Tour Started in Dallas - 04 with a ls1, now ls7 holy crap! even sweeter now - up there with the mule with less press coverage , whats next? :jump:

PhillipM

08-25-2006, 11:10 AM

The rear is now a dana 44, we were using a 36 with absolutly no problems but thought that with the new LS7 a 44 would be proper.

SLO 65- thank you for the link.. we will check them out for sure!

zman1969- Hopefully next will be some track days to show people the real potential of this car. I would love to have Stielow drive this car and his new Camaro X back to back on the track, both w/ LS7's to see the difference between the suspension systems. I think that would be an interesting experiment. Maybe they could even do a story on it. Who knows.

Here are just a couple photos that i have sitting around of the car during the process. Once we get the new halfshaft and get the car back on the ground i will snap some more photos.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/08/DSC01570Small-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/08/DSC01628Small-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/08/DSC01578Small-1.jpg

estamato

09-21-2006, 11:58 AM

dennysdriveshaft

Check these guys out.

Any one use there stuff?

estamato

09-21-2006, 12:01 PM

http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/html/independent_rear.html

To be exact!

Mark Smith

09-22-2006, 09:50 AM

what headers are those as i Know you are running a wd front clip?

PhillipM

09-22-2006, 03:44 PM

The headers were custom built by S&S Here in Phoenix. Here is a picture from the under side. They don't hang down hardly at all.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/09/DSC00802-1.jpg

BA.

09-22-2006, 08:36 PM

Nice car man, very nice.

I have S&S on my Lexus. Really! :)

;

formula98

09-25-2006, 01:40 PM

olds87

09-25-2006, 03:11 PM

Any progress on the half shafts? I'm building the same setup into my 67 with an LS2. Would be interested in photos of your build.

I'm going to start with a DANA 36. What mods did you have to do to get the 44 in after first installing the 36?

Thanks,

Ron

I was wondering the same thing to.

Have Mark talk to you about driving your car and camaro X on a road course?

ProdigyCustoms

09-25-2006, 03:43 PM

We had a different problem. This is what happens when 540CI of Project Prodigy power challenges the C4 rear to a dual. Half shafts held up fine, but spiders gave up along with one of the caps. We will be talking with Quafe abot a bullit proff set up. Probably use carbon fiber shafts to help avoid disaster. When the half shaft is a suspension comonent like a C4, you really do not want to break one at speed.

Everything was fine until Bob Johnson pulled up beside Michael. He had made a dozen passes taking it easy, then testosterone kicked in and this is the end result!

ProdigyCustoms

09-25-2006, 03:44 PM

As far as swaping for 36 to 44. You will only have to change the bat wing and carrier. Also, the pinion mount is on the drivers side instead of the passenger side.

formula98

09-25-2006, 10:13 PM

Hi Frank, Thanks for the info. Was the testosterone induced failure a 36 or 44 rear end? I'm just wondering what to expect from my 36. I plan to keep the LS2 for the most part stock with headers. Still in the 400+ hp range. Thanks again,

Ron

ilovefirstgens

09-25-2006, 10:15 PM

prodigy was a 36

formula98

09-25-2006, 10:20 PM

Thanks Brian.

I've seen in threads that the 44 can handle 400 – 500+ hp what kind of hp it the 36 rated for?

ProdigyCustoms

09-26-2006, 02:16 PM

Problem is there is no difference in the spiders from 36 to 44 rears. When we started Prodigy we bought the 36 for mock up, and it just stayed there as Michael has not had the money for the 44. And since he was not racing it............. But it looks like he will have to find the money, or a good sponsor, LOL! If we can get a quafe, I have a line one a 44 that needs a diff. Would be perfect.

In the meantime we had another 36, and the ring and pinion held up fine, so we were able to swap the gears and he is cruising again. Just no full on, gear banging, blast. To be honest, it is almost like a govenor, and I think i like that!

PhillipM

09-27-2006, 08:27 PM

I was wondering the same thing to.

Have Mark talk to you about driving your car and camaro X on a road course?

Switching over to the 44 from the 36 was pretty straight forward, basically it is just that front pinion mount. it is a little taller and protrudes just a little bit more towards the front of the vehicle.

As for the half shafts we had new ones built that are still aluminum. I can't remember the thickness of the new ones exactly but so far have held up to some acceleration runs nicely :) I had Mesa Driveshaft do the new ones for me. They haven't gone wrong on projects in the past so we will see.

There has not been any talk of Camaro X and us meeting up but I would love to do it! This car is extremly quick and I really would love to see what the difference in suspension design does to lap times. For better or for worse I think that it would be fun.

As for the horsepower ratings on the IRS it is hard to say because of traction issues with each individual car. With the 36 we were running right around 400 to it, and now with the 44 we are running right around 550-575.

formula98

09-27-2006, 09:44 PM

Switching over to the 44 from the 36 was pretty straight forward, basically it is just that front pinion mount. it is a little taller and protrudes just a little bit more towards the front of the vehicle.

As for the horsepower ratings on the IRS it is hard to say because of traction issues with each individual car. With the 36 we were running right around 400 to it, and now with the 44 we are running right around 550-575.

That is very helpful as I plan to be in the 400 to 450 hp range and will be installing the 36. How does the car feel with the IRS? I'm hoping to have a nice ride compared to the stock setup. I'm also hoping that it will handle much better than stock. Any and all feed back would be great! Thank so much for the info.

Ron

PhillipM

09-27-2006, 10:00 PM

It will be hard to say how your's will ride and handle but I know that one of the problems that we have had has been not enough travel in the coil-overs. Initially we were running 550 lb springs in the rear and it road awesome around town, but on the track it would squat really hard in the back around big sweeping turns like the bowl at The Streets of Willow. It would sit down on to the stops and just stay there all the way through the turn. To fight this we put in longer springs and went up to 600 lb springs. It definatly rides rougher but we don't have any test data from the track yet. It would also help if we didn't set the ride height so low. But it looks so gooood:) Right now the car is sitting about an inch lower than the picture shows on the first page. The wheel wells sit at about 22 inches of the ground.

Nine Ball

10-02-2006, 11:23 AM

you guys are nuts :)

I see IRS as a downgrade when considering high-HP builds. Cool factor isn't as high when you are on a flatbed, lol.

Tony (wishing my C6 had a solid axle 4-link rearend)

andrewb70

10-02-2006, 11:30 AM

you guys are nuts :)

I see IRS as a downgrade when considering high-HP builds. Cool factor isn't as high when you are on a flatbed, lol.

Tony (wishing my C6 had a solid axle 4-link rearend)

Making an IRS live in a high HP application just requires a little more thought and preperation. Certainly its not as simple as doing a 9" or Dana 60, but there is a sense of satisfaction when it all works well.

Andrew

Nine Ball

10-02-2006, 11:34 AM

likewise for making a solid rearend car handle as good as an IRS car ;)

andrewb70

10-02-2006, 11:48 AM

likewise for making a solid rearend car handle as good as an IRS car ;)

True..true...

Andrew

MrQuick

10-02-2006, 12:24 PM

you guys are nuts :)

I see IRS as a downgrade when considering high-HP builds. Cool factor isn't as high when you are on a flatbed, lol.

Tony (wishing my C6 had a solid axle 4-link rearend)

Hey Tony, I'll trade you! :poke:

Hey Frank, how is the case? Any damage?? We don't see that damage offen but we do hear about it at Dodge.

ProdigyCustoms

10-02-2006, 12:45 PM

It did not appear to kill the case, but we changed it all anyway. Just swaped the gears over. As for ride quality, it is awesome. We hear all the ime from peoplle followong the car how smooth it appears to be riding, especially considering how low it is.

We set up Prodigy with long shocks. It has 4 inches of compression and 3 inches of extension at ride height, so we are not having any bottom out issues. We are running 550LB springs and double adjustable shocks.

As for making it live. I am sure the Quafe will work. Works in Vipers. It will cost some $$$$$, but it will work

andrewb70

10-02-2006, 01:07 PM

Frank,

What part broke exactly?

Andrew

RobM

10-02-2006, 01:45 PM

does the car squat real bad under hard acceleration?

ProdigyCustoms

10-02-2006, 01:58 PM

Watch the video at Muscle Rides racing Bob. It dead hooked and went 1.90 short on that pass. no it cannot handle full power launches, but neither could any ProTouring cars there.

Andrew. Since half the spider gears teeth are gone, it appears to have sheared the spider gear teeth first, then possibly one of the teeth went through the ring and pinion, jamming the chunk, breaking the main cap. That is my best guess at what happened. Lucky enough, the Ring and Pinion look perfect.

The rear was all new, gears, bearings. but the chunk and spiders were original, so maybe they are not that strong from the factory? We inspected the shfts, and see no problems in the half shafts. They are new custom aluminum shafts. But I think we will be putting something stronger in.