Heidts Rear Suspension

[MStennes]

What are your thoughts out there on Heidts 4 Link rear suspensions? I like there ease of install but are they any good? Should I just stick with my plans for going DSE off set leafs or go Quada Link?
Thanks,
Mike

[baz67]

My thoughts are it would be fine for a cruiser and want heights adjustability. They give up to much geometry wise for the bolt in instalation. I good set of leafs would probably be better.

[Marcus SC&C]

I don`t care for the use of poly bushings but it`s one of the only 4 link rear conversions for early Camaros that has much anti squat built into it. On paper at least it should launch better than systems with a typical street rod parallel "4 bar" configuration. I admit to never having tried one in a Camaro but I`ve worked with plenty of them in street rods and traction is often an issue despite some of those cars having a lot more rear weight bias than a Camaro and 33x21.5 MTs. The RC height looks pretty good too. If Heidts would loose the poly and use Johnny joints or something similar IMO they`d be onto something in spite of the relatively short upper links. Mark SC&C

[JoshC]

Anyone else?

[Mean 69]

Try doing a search on the unit, it has certainly been discussed here in the past if I am not mistaken.

Mark

[jcerioni]

4 link
PRO's
- Save about 50 lbs (this is HUGE - any time you can save weight)
- Provides Anti-Squat ( this is HUGE for hooking up)
- Provides roll-steer
- Height adjustable
- Easy and inexpensive to swap out springs and spring rates (ride adjustable).
- Links and attachment points are adjustable.
- Total Elimination of wheel hop, even high horsepower applications, ride is not sacrificed .
- Complete Bolt on - no cutting.
CON'S
- The geometry is different from OEM, you may have interferences with stock exhaust, fuel and brake lines, etc. So you may have to change more than the rear suspension.

Hotchkiss Leafs
PRO's
-Simple
-Cheap
CON's
- Horse and buggy technology(Don't see this on modern car)
- Weight
- Wheel Hop

Heidt's vs DSE
- their both paralell 4 links with coilovers and a panhard bar - same technology. I would expect similar performance characteristics. I assume the engineers that designed the systems have a lot of experience, and know more about suspension geometry than the opinionated armchair experts that pay someone else to do their work.
- The Heidt's system is less invasive. The DSE requires major modification to the car body ($$$$). You have to do a lot of cutting, welding, sandblasting, sealing and painting to install the DSE system. This is something you would not attempt yourself, unless you had advanced fabrication skills and a fully equipped garage. If you hired some else to do it, the actual cost of the kit would be small in comparision to the labor. The Heidt's system is a bolt on, and can be reversed anytime -- it will preserve the value of an original car. If you are going to do it yourself in your garage, the Heidt's system would be the way to go, but does require you to cut away the leaf spring pockets on your old rearend and weld on brackets, something you could have your muffler shop do, for a resonable fee.
- The DSE system did win some sort of design award. So that is a good thing.
- DSE does a lot of advertising on this website, so there might be a bias.
- If value and cost is a concern, Then the Heidt's system will save you a bundle and let you put more money elsewhere -- like a good set of disk brakes.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

[restomodbird69]

if you plan on having lots of hp i would go with dse since it is welded in.the bolt in with hi hp would worry me.

[Mean 69]

Er, pardon me, jceroni, but I think you might have glossed over some important aspects, while inflating (dramatically) others regarding the Heidt's system, or any other for link for that matter. Further, your stance sounds like a sales pitch in that you too seem to be very biased. I'd guess that you have an association with Heidt's, in which case, terrific, I think it would be informative for the readers for some substantiation of your statements.

And really, I don't mean to be a jerk whatsoever, but I think I have a pretty good handle on this stuff, as do so many others that regularly watch this board. It seems like your response is filled with the right lingo, but perhaps a bit light on the true understanding of what it means, or the tradeoffs between the important factors?

Mark

[z06fromhell]

anyone out there got a hiedts installed and cruised it? if so what do you think?

[Steve N 69 69 69]

There's an install write up in the new Super Chevy. They're supposed to post some numbers next month.

[rocketman]

total cost involved makes a nice rear camaro suspension that I think is meant to be a bolt in.

[z06fromhell]

yeah, i saw the article. looks good, but im looking for some feedback from someone who has installed and driven one. biggest problem here is most of our cars are under a very long constrution time. so people may have one but wont drive it to see how it works for a year or so. or is it just me....

[silver69camaro]

Jcerioni,
Who cares if leafs are "horse-and-buggy" technology? It works pretty damn good!

I also disagree with your "cons" on the leaf setup. Leafs aren't that heavy, and there are composites available. And, a properly designed leaf spring will not have wheelhop. Mine doesn't, and I don't have traction devices.

You also left out a few cons from the 4-link.

[baz67]

Um, jcerioni you need to explain some of your reasoning here. Like when did roll steer become a good thing? The amount of AS is dependant on the geometry of the link suspension and not automaticly ideal or better than a well designed leaf suspension becuase it is a link suspension.

Sure more AS is desirable, up to a point as to the design to obtain an increased AS percetage does create a SVSA length so short it causes brake hop. Just ask the three suspension people who have posted in this thread how difficult that is. So great you now can accelerate out of the corner, but you swap ends when you brake into the next. That is ideal. I know that is somewhat of a blanket analysis, but at least it has some tech in it so others can understand why and not just AS is good.

I agree with Mark that your post reads more like advertising.

Horse and buggy, roll steer a good thing, wow, you are funny. Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

[sc68z28]

Hi, (new here) that Super Chevy article caught my eye too.
So I called Heidts, told them breifly what I have. 1st gen Camaro, stick shift, about 800 HP, he said it was NOT designed for that kind of power!

I guess I'll keep working with my muti leafs and slide-a-links. Maybe check with Total Cost Involved, but they appear to be about the same thing.

BTW great site!

[baz67]

*cough*lateral-dynamics.com*cough*

[jcerioni]

Sorry, If It sounds like an adverisement. I was just listing the pros and cons that I saw. It is the way I think. I am real cost concious. I read my post again, and still think I stuck to the facts.

Different people have different goals. I do not plan to have a 800 hp engine, and if I did, I do not think I would plop it into a stock camaro, the unibody could not take the stress. Nuff said about that one.

If cost is not a concern for readers, then yes -- a lot of what I said does not matter.

I have a pair of hotckiss leaf springs and believe me they are a bear to mount because of their weight - 35 lbs a piece - nuff said about that one

If leaf springs are such a superior suspension, how come no modern car has them? - nuff said about that one.

According to Herb Adams, author of "Chassis Engineering" - Roll steer is another variable that can be adusted to tune the suspension. Baz67 --would you please tell us about your "real world" experience and background was in suspension design?

You guys are ARROGANT!!! I guess there is no room for different opions other than DSE is the only way. I am out of here -- I will not post again.

[zbugger]

jcerioni, please don't take this as being arrogant. Yeah, some here might be, but there is a TON of knowledge on this site. Just take note that yes, there are people here that will do research to find out just what is out there that is true and what is not. I personally don't think I know everything, but I know enough to hurt myself. When we see mis-information being passed around, we tend to jump on it. Feel free to take your ball and go home.

On the leaf spring note, I've spoken to several suspension guru's and they've all told me that although technically crude, leafs can more than speak for themselves in a performance application. They can be outstanding on the street, and good enough for a car that sometimes hits a track.

Oh, and take note of the "Horse and Buggy" comment. You don't see this on a modern car? Try explaining out of this one. C6 Corvette. Z06 even. Yeah. And it smokes plenty of LDS rides.

(For those not in the know, LDS = Little **** Syndrome)

[ilovefirstgens]

You guys are ARROGANT!!! I guess there is no room for different opions other than DSE is the only way. I am out of here -- I will not post again.


EXCUSE YOU!!!

dont forget Lateral Dynamics!:slap:



Come on buddy dont take things so personally, people have different opinions than you no biggie!




Oh, and take note of the "Horse and Buggy" comment. You don't see this on a modern car? Try explaining out of this one. C6 Corvette. Z06 even. Yeah. And it smokes plenty of LDS rides.

That dosent really count allen, its a transverse leaf used just as a spring, not a mount for all the suspension like on the rears of first gens.

At the same time that dosent change that a decent set of leafs is VERY effective in theese cars.

[baz67]

He must have missed my post about LD then as well. Hmm, and he thinks we cannot handle a differing opinion. Oh well. BTW, where was DSE mentioned in this entire thread except for his and the first one?

[zbugger]

That dosent really count allen, its a transverse leaf used just as a spring, not a mount for all the suspension like on the rears of first gens.

It may be an IRS car, but it's still considered "horse and buggy" according to Top Gear. So long as it has a leaf spring.

[ilovefirstgens]

It may be an IRS car, but it's still considered "horse and buggy" according to Top Gear. So long as it has a leaf spring.

Haha yea i remember that, freakin idiots. What i love most is when the c6z beat the pants out of every european car they like they go and call it a "track only" car. What dorks!