Big to Small Block?

[2Slow4U]

Here's situation. I have a 68 Camaro that was originally a 396. I am the 3rd owner and it now has a 454. I just finished the suspension and brakes and next is motor and tranny. Is it against some unspoken rule that I shouldn't convert it to a small block? This car will be my daily driver and I am thinking of a 383 or a little bigger. I'm thinking 400-500hp will fill my needs. At the onset of the rebuild I told myself 400 will do. I'm not planning on dragging the car, maybe some autocross and open track days occasionally. I have been pricing out BBC’s and it almost doesn’t seem worth the ha$$le to build one when a small block will fill my needs.

Also, is it as simple as changing out the motor mounts to put in a small block?

I appreciate your opinions.

Nick

[rocketman]

Here's situation. I have a 68 Camaro that was originally a 396. I am the 3rd owner and it now has a 454. I just finished the suspension and brakes and next is motor and tranny. Is it against some unspoken rule that I shouldn't convert it to a small block? This car will be my daily driver and I am thinking of a 383 or a little bigger. I'm thinking 400-500hp will fill my needs. At the onset of the rebuild I told myself 400 will do. I'm not planning on dragging the car, maybe some autocross and open track days occasionally. I have been pricing out BBC’s and it almost doesn’t seem worth the ha$$le to build one when a small block will fill my needs.

Also, is it as simple as changing out the motor mounts to put in a small block?

I appreciate your opinions.

Nick


i don't see any reason for a BB if you dont need it.

yes it's as simple as changing motor mounts,and most likey tranny x-member or mount.

[hdesign]

I would change the front springs too(?). If that has BB springs in it set up to carry the added weight, it may lift the nose a little and change the ride characteristics.

[ssdeuce]

I really like the ideal of it having a big block. If you can find a 68 model 396 to put in it. But it is your car and you do what makes you happy. Either way it sounds pretty sweet!

[go-fish]

I had the same dilema with my 'cuda for about two seconds. It is originally a 383(big block) 4-spd car. I even know where a date correct engine block is. I own the car, it's mine. Why would I give 2 beans about what the Mopar faithful think about my build. The car was green and I'm not gonna paint it back that color. I am using a TKO-500, not a4-spd. You should do what you want, weigh out the pros and cons, can you find a #'s 396? Would you have more fun with a lighter SBC that was built strong? 5 and 6 speeds aren't stock pieces but they are a ton better. I am sorry to all the people like my dad who think the cars need to be all original but I'll take my supercharged 408/5 speed and beat the pants off any stock 383/4 speed 'cuda. I haven't even looked up the option codes, I only know it's eng/trans. because of the emissions sticker on the inner fender and the 4 speed hump. Just my opinion, Nick.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

indeed..

[Derek69SS]

If it were my decision, I would never put a SB in a true BB car... but that's just me. That just seems like you'd be going backwards as a hot-rodder.

[ACEFOOTER]

If you're going to Autocross/open track it, then take the weight off the nose and go small block or even better LSx. Chenge the springs and have fun. Don't sell the Big Block though, just tuck it back in the corner under the bench. Five years from now you may want that displacment back!

[CraigMorrison]

LSX or Mitchell's all aluminum SBC. Weighs 355lbs, and our 427 with a Wilson Manifolds/TeamG and FAST FI it made 538hp and 517Ft LB's. Light weight and enought HP to get you into trouble. Should work pretty good in our Vette project.

[68sixspeed]

I'll concur on getting the nose weight off, just going from an aluminum headed small block to the all aluminum made a huge difference on the cars balance, let alone the weight savings from a steel big block. Given the gas prices, if you aren't after huge power, LS1 or LS2 is a heck of a great bang for the buck. Mine is quick, but it loves the gas pump.

[2Slow4U]

Yea, I'm leaning towards a 383 or 396 with aluminum heads. Nothings final until it's done though.

BTW-Sixspeed, how do you like the ROD?

[Bandit]

Anything a small block can do, a big block can do better!! (OK, don't nobody throw your keybaords at me)

The only downfall IMHO is price. I think the weight issue of BB-SB is WAY overrated. Given the location of the engine in the chassis a liitle added weight is not too big a deal for the average car. For balls-out racers it may be, but for me it wasn't. I was told by numerous "experts" that I absolutely could not drive my Trans am after I swapped the Pontiac 301 with a 396, until I changed out the front springs, cooling system, etc. I didn't have the cash to do all that at the time so I said "screw it" and did the swap anyhow. The front dropped a tad (which actually improved the stance), and I think the handling might have even improved!! Anyway I drove it hard for 2-3 years with no other upgrades until recently, no problems.

Furthermore, if you have the money for aluminum, a BB can be almost as light as a small block but with vastly more potential and better heads.

Paul

[68sixspeed]

2slow4u- ROD is ok- hasn't broken yet! It doesn't shift as smooth as say a T56 or ZF, but it has a nice choice of gear ratios.

[vintageracer]

Big Block Chevy engines are like Dinosaurs in today's world, they have not been around for a long time nor have BBC engines been installed in passenger cars for a long time! Ever wonder why? Because there is a better way.

Technology continues to advance the use of small blocks with all types of power adders if "stock" is not good enough. Transmission technology, fuel injection technology have passed the BBC into history. Given the horsepower rating of the last BBC installed in a passenger car in 1976 at about 240 engine HP, why waste your time.

Weight, horsepower, engine and acessory packaging, the small block Chevy and LS motors have it all.

Your old car may have been made yesterday but why be limited to the last century for engine power. After all, is that not what this site is all about?

Making your old car modern!

[torval]

I would love to have a BB for my car, but 99.9% of the time it just sits there. Daily driver, I wouldn't think twice on a SB swap!

[Josh]

I don't know about the "dinosaur" comment. There have been plenty of pathetic small blocks through history as well but none of that OE stuff applies here.
There is no answer to what is better but the old saying of "there is no replacement for displacement" will always be true, if overall power is the goal. As was said earlier, anything a small block can do (HP rating), a BBC can do better or at least easier. At a 400 HP goal, either motor can do it easy and , unless you are looking for the "wow" factor from your friends, there is not much reason to go BBC. At 500HP, either can do it but the SBC will have to wind up a bit, and the BBC will still be docile. Go to 600HP and any non supercharged SBC will be wound up and not too streetable and a BBC will be tolerable. If corner carving is really what you want to do often then the trade off to SBC is worth it, it is entirely a personal choice.

[68sixspeed]

well I like big blocks, but I have to disagree with Josh- at 625hp my small block is still very streetable, I drove 600 miles round trip in one weekend to go to Maple Grove PA from CT, never ran over 185 degrees, idled in traffic, and didn't get passed. I followed it up with a day trip to NH the next week, 350-400 miles round trip, same deal, no drama.

If you build it with the right stuff and enough cubes, a 600hp normally aspirated small block is very streetable and with good parts it is reliable. (i.e. shaft rockers, pressurized lifters, etc.) Now, bang for the buck, 600hp on a big block is a lot cheaper to achieve than 600hp on a small block. -Dan

[baz67]

Did everyone read his needs. 4-500 hp, no drag and maybe some auto-x or open track. I do not know about you, but a BBC is not what he wants to fullfill his stated needs. The BBC will put more weight on the nose over the SBC. Better weight distribution is what he needs and if he can get that with the HP requirements in a SBC then that is the way to go hands down. Remember there is nothing stopping him from going back to a BBC if his requirements change later.

[MarkM66]

BBC a dinosaur? Get real! If you want big power, a BBC will make an LSX run to the corner and cry. Technology? How many aftermarket parts do you think are out there for a BBC? Tons! For example, cylinder heads; there are many companies making awesome heads for the BBC, do you think they're not being created using modern technology? Heck no, they're way better then stock BBC heads. Yeah, stock BBC parts like heads are dated compared to modern design, but if you want big power, you're not going use stock parts anyway. Even though stock stuff can still make good power. Then we could talk aftermarket blocks. How many cubic inches can a bbc go using todays parts? Umm.. a lot.

Back to the actual question;

All things equal, a bbc Camaro will bring more then a sbc Camaro, if that's a concern. And since it was originally a bbc car, I'd keep in one.

But if you really are going to track the car, and you have a budget, go sbc with aluminum heads. It's only about 50 pounds heavier then an LS1. An BBC is to heavy for a track car IMO, unless you're running an aluminum block and heads.

[vintageracer]

I am real! BBC are dinosaurs and I just love to stir the pot of opinion!

[harshman]

:lurk:
"My Chevy's better!!!"

a radio commercial of long ago. :moon:

[cudaman]

The BBC is not a dinosaur because it is inferior in any way. It is a superior design to the sbc, I think. It is the victim of cultural and political events which made the sbc more suitable and much more plentiful. They should have switched to canted valves on sbc's once they saw how well they worked and the debate would probably have been over.

[whytry]

I love my BBC, if weight is the main issue, through aluminum heads and a glass hood on it, should cut some weight right there.

[BonzoHansen]

Forget the SBC. Really downsize: Put a turbo V6 GN setup in it.....

[Mean 69]

They should have switched to canted valves on sbc's once they saw how well they worked and the debate would probably have been over.

I have had a rat motor since I was 19 years old, the same motor, and I'll NEVER part with it. Right now it's a 489 stroker with ported aluminum heads, and has been sitting in my garage for five years, not having been in a car the whole time. I'll buy a big bitchin Impala to put it in, and I will NEVER sell that motor.

But.... There's this "new" breed of motor, that the General has made, that will go into my current and all other future products, without question. It's called an LS. Latest one, which is what I'll use, has a top called an LS7. Non-canted valves (although, you can't argue with the sex appeal of the coll arrangement of the rocker arms when you pull the valve covers off the rat), and the stock heads flow better than any production head, ever, period. Stock.

It's all a period thing regarding which "technology" is new, old, outdated, etc. If one was really a historic nut, he'd run a flathead and declare victory.

If I was going to drive the car every day, today, I'd put a newer LS motor in it. If I wanted to shred the crap out of the tires, I keep the rat. If I was on a complete budget and didn't want to keep the rat, I'd walk down to the local 7-11 and buy a SBC to put into the car, because they are STILL the cheapest and easiest bang for the buck, you can buy stuff for them ANYWHERE. Heck, I have a Performer RPM manifold in my office that I will NEVER use for an SBC, you can have it for $50. Plus shipping.

Value = SBC.
Performance per ci = LS.
Brute force = BBC.

Mark

[ACEFOOTER]

Forget the SBC. Really downsize: Put a turbo V6 GN setup in it.....

But go twin turbos, less lag out of the corners. Ok experts whats the weight difference between a twin turbo V6 and a LSx?

[camaro608]

388 lt1 with an F1 procharger hell yah

it burns the same amount of dinosaurs

you do what you what

[vintageracer]

I've got a 88 Monte Carlo SS with a 87 GN Turbo V6 motor. Economy and awsome performance. The V6 replaced the powerful and world famous 305 SBC.

[ponchopwr70]

If you want a sbc chevy put one in. Thats what I did to my pontiac. Who cares what the purists say. I would have loved to put an aluminum head bb pontiac, big blocks are cool but the sbc was laying around so I used that. It just made sense for me. All that matters is to be happy with your car, I am. Its fun to have the purists mad at me, little did they know my lemans came from the factory with a chevy 6 cylinder. They will be even more mad when I blow by them. :lol:

[Bandit]

Running a computerized small-block may be the ultimate for squeezing every bit of power out of the motor and never having to "two-foot" it to keep it running, but I could care less about either.

1. I have never had a car that got great gas mileage, so I don't miss anything with a carb.
2. My carburated BBC makes enough power to get done what I need to and then some--if power fluctuates by a few hp it doesn't really matter.
3. the low-end grunt and "cool factor" alone make it worth running a BB.
4. I have always liked having a choppy idle and a louder car, and I like the simplicity of a carb.

Guess I am a dinosaur just like my engine.

Paul