Another fine '71 'cuda

[go-fish]

Hemi, Air Ride Tech 4-bar, Alter-k-tion, Bad A$$. This is a Matt Delaney creation, you know, the guy responsible for the triple black Hemi AAR 'cuda with the Heidt's IRS. His creations seem to stick to a stock exterior/interior but exotic and modern mechanicals. Word is, he had a "Direct Connection" to Mopar Performance to get some really trick stuff.

[F70t/a]

dude that is a sweet cuda:razz:

[MrAngry]

Damn... how much money does this guy have anyway...

[datsbad]

I saw this car first hand on the powertour. It looks cool but there were some major issues with paint, bodywork and some things that were not acceptable to me on a high dollar car that you would expect.

Some other people saw the same things as i was looking at it, which made me feel better to know that i was not being to critical .

The car has a stock feel to it and it looks good, I liked it a lot but just some things could have been done better. I dont claim to be a perfectionist , there are just my opinons(well others also apparently) . I did hear it was a major rush to get it there for the tour , so maybe they will be fixing things to bring it up to par .

either way , cool car

[go-fish]

The car was a rush to get finished for the tour. He had other cars that were driven by some of todays Mopar masterminds, like Paul from Hydratech and Bill Reilly of Reilly Motorsports.
Delaney is a real estate investor that is based out of North LA (Louisiana). I think he's got a little loot. From what I have heard and read you couldn't find a nicer guy. I would like to look at his 'cudas up close as I am kinda copying alot of his ideas for my 'cuda.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Very nice. I've been looking at the AirRide stuff. I love the stance.

Go-fish.... I'd love to see pix of your car. I'm building a 70 Barracuda right now, so I'm always interested in what others have done.

[email protected]

[Bob Johnson]

I just don't get the Hemi AAR Cuda Motif..either it's a Hemi car, or a AAR car (small block Trans Am Style)..A Heidt's Rear End just doesn't belong under a Street Machine much less a Pro-Tour Car, IMHO..It's a Street Rod Rear End. High gloss billboards just don't register with me either..I thought he was a little brazen at SEMA when Troy had Sick Fish there with Delaney's Black Car. Delaney said Troy who? No one in this sport can make that statement with authority. As discussed in the Top 10 Builders thread, Troy is arguably the best in this business. I was a little surprised with the car Delaney had at SEMA in the Chrysler Booth last year. It was definitely a step down from the black Cuda. This red car is not on par with the black Cuda either. To play this game, you don't go backward, you move forward. I am not knocking his work as I think he assembles a car that is pleasing to the eye. Bolting on aftermarket parts does not a great builder make. Am I looking at this wrong?

[go-fish]

I just mated the tranny and the block tonight, just a mock up to measure for the drive shaft. I will be ordering the Air-Bar this week. So in the next few weeks I ought to have the stance nailed. I have been waiting to see how the front looks with some weight on it. I will dig the ATI supercharger out soon and get some pics of that along with the Hydratech system I just hooked up. I have some brake line to bend and that is about it for the next six months. I am going to Guam for awhile, I will get the cylinders bored and the stroker put together when I get back next spring. Hopefuly I can get it on the road not long after spring so I can tear it all back down and knock out that bodywork, it is rust free but definately not dent free. Got all the chrome and interior so good shape there. I am going to get an AAR hood.

[go-fish]

Wow, Coot, hold on a minute. Nobody ever said this car was cooler than yours, buddy. It's just a cool lookin 'cuda. You guys just come from different camps, that's all. I guess it is just the differences in perspective in perspective. "Troy who?" now that is pretty fudged up. He is going to be remembered alot longer than Delaney that is for sure, but I didn't hear him say it with my own ears.
Two different ends of the spectrum as far as putin' cars together. One style is all out Daryl Starbid'esc and the other is "That's what they should have done from the factory in 1970". BTW, they are both PT. And IRS does belong in the PT world along with all the other suspension systems that WORK.

[Bob Johnson]

Wow, Coot, hold on a minute. Nobody ever said this car was cooler than yours, buddy. It's just a cool lookin 'cuda. You guys just come from different camps, that's all. I guess it is just the differences in perspective in perspective. "Troy who?" now that is pretty fudged up. He is going to be remembered alot longer than Delaney that is for sure, but I didn't hear him say it with my own ears.
Two different ends of the spectrum as far as putin' cars together. One style is all out Daryl Starbid'esc and the other is "That's what they should have done from the factory in 1970". BTW, they are both PT. And IRS does belong in the PT world along with all the other suspension systems that WORK.
Quite obviously I agree with independent rear suspensions in PT since I had one installed in my Cuda..but Heidt's is not built for this application. It's for Street Rods. There are plenty of viable alternatives. I didn't mean to seem like I had my panties in a wad. It is just quite weird when I hear people comparing general contractor type builders with the likes of Alan Johnson and Troy Trepanier. There are guys that can assemble parts from aftermarket suppliers, and contract out other work and make a good looking car. But these cars are not in the same universe as a car that Alan and Troy build.

[formula]

It is just quite weird when I hear people comparing general contractor type builders with the likes of Alan Johnson and Troy Trepanier. There are guys that can assemble parts from aftermarket suppliers, and contract out other work and make a good looking car. But these cars are not in the same universe as a car that Alan and Troy build.

I don't think that bob is just getting all riled up because his heels are being nipped at (not that his heels are being nipped at anyway)...I happen to agree with him on all points. This is a very well assembled car, but all the stuff on there is not exactly trick. Heck, I'm just a hack weekend mechanic, and I'm bolting an airride setup onto my car. I don't mean to devalue his work, Just saying that i think he's still got a lot of work to do if he's gonna throw snide remarks at the likes of troy trepanier.

[Stu Seitz]

You know, I hate to beat a dead horse, but why did you choose to use a MII suspension?

[MrQuick]

damn there goes my color combo. its a nice car, not too showee and not too sheeet house. Just up my alley. Haven't seen it up close but I like.

[go-fish]

It isn't really a MII front. Sure it has MII spindles, well not ones from an MII itself. I don't know if that constitutes it as an MII front suspension.The rack is a Flaming River piece. The kit is called Alter-k-tion from Reilly Motorsports, I found it through BigBlockDart.com when I was looking for the Magnum Force unit. I went with this set up because the Magnum Force has long range issues, the coils mount to the stock shock mounts wich cause eventual damage, and I believe you have to use a motor plate. The UCA's mount to stock location and all the ball joints and bushings have Mopar part numbers. I have heard people say they sold the Mag Force and bought the Alter-k-tion. The whole thing saves me easily over a hundred pounds and I get a shist ton of adjustability. I know it came in a box so I guess my pride in it just went down a little. I used to think it was "trick" but it wasn't made from scratch.
I don't want to beat a dead horse either but you know how Troy Trepanier is a prankster and jokester, how do you know that the SEMA comment wasn't in jest, something between two builders, not owners, and it got outside of that realm? I don't know either one of them and think it is a little Soap Opera-ish to sit here and go through the "he said, she said" thing.
I just posted these pics because it IS a pretty cool ride, no G-Force 'cuda, but still cool. I want to see MY 'cuda in that state and I don't think G-force was the end all, be all for 'cudas just like SickFish wasn't so I aint gonna stop dumping money and free time into mine. Well that's it for me, I don't want to step on anymore toes. I don't want to change minds or defend people I don't know, I do enough of that in the desert.

[Bob Johnson]

It isn't really a MII front. Sure it has MII spindles, well not ones from an MII itself. I don't know if that constitutes it as an MII front suspension.The rack is a Flaming River piece. The kit is called Alter-k-tion from Reilly Motorsports, I found it through BigBlockDart.com when I was looking for the Magnum Force unit. I went with this set up because the Magnum Force has long range issues, the coils mount to the stock shock mounts wich cause eventual damage, and I believe you have to use a motor plate. The UCA's mount to stock location and all the ball joints and bushings have Mopar part numbers. I have heard people say they sold the Mag Force and bought the Alter-k-tion. The whole thing saves me easily over a hundred pounds and I get a shist ton of adjustability. I know it came in a box so I guess my pride in it just went down a little. I used to think it was "trick" but it wasn't made from scratch.
I don't want to beat a dead horse either but you know how Troy Trepanier is a prankster and jokester, how do you know that the SEMA comment wasn't in jest, something between two builders, not owners, and it got outside of that realm? I don't know either one of them and think it is a little Soap Opera-ish to sit here and go through the "he said, she said" thing.
I just posted these pics because it IS a pretty cool ride, no G-Force 'cuda, but still cool. I want to see MY 'cuda in that state and I don't think G-force was the end all, be all for 'cudas just like SickFish wasn't so I aint gonna stop dumping money and free time into mine. Well that's it for me, I don't want to step on anymore toes. I don't want to change minds or defend people I don't know, I do enough of that in the desert.
I think what you're doing is very cool for a guy that's building his own car. That's what these kinds of parts are for. A regular guy can build a good handling car that will ride well and do what he wants it to do. But a quality builder/Fabricator does not take motors, Trans packages, manufactured headers, rear ends, suspension kits etc and call the finished product a milestone piece. Assemblers and General Contractor type builders can fool lots of the general public and even the manufacturers quite obviously, but guys like me that have been around the block many times see right thru this stuff very quickly. BTW Troy, Alan, and others didn't take that comment lightly, even though they thought it was a real joke. I didn't build the Cuda to be all end all for this hobby. It was built to be the new high water mark for others to shoot for. It wasn't meant to take away your motivation to work on your car, but to show others what could be done and hopefully give you ideas for your cars. I'm sorry that you take it that I expect EVERYONE to build a car to this level or do nothing..nothing could be further from the truth. When I see your car finished, I will think it's cool. But then you're not trying to pass yourself off as an Alan Johnson or a Troy Trepanier. When you do that, you're going to have to build one helluva car to impress me.

[go-fish]

I do understand that Troy, Alan, Schwartz, and the like are among the elite and I wouldn't compare thier products with a guy like Delaney's stuff. I am sure Delaney makes a living off his commercial real estate and not cars. PHR did an article on guys doing Mopars for the PT scene, Delaney, Trepanier, and others. I remember he explained his view on what he liked to build, wich is stock appearing vehicles, stock interior, and updated mechanicals. Some people like that. I never tried to draw a paralel between Delaney's car and anybody elses' car when I started this thread. Sorry to ruffle the feathers. BTW, I would like to know the general publics view on the black 'cuda and the Schwarts Poison Dart (both used Alter-k-tion and Heidt's), but not a comparison to other builds just a view on the results of each build individually. I think the Heidts is a great IRS, inboard brakes, indestructable third member, great joints and 1/2 shafts, and strong control arms. The Alter-k-tion is a proven front suspension in hard core road race to hard core drag race. Now you can get Shockwaves instead of coilovers.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i like it..

[Bigblue73]

I like the car and the stance is Killer. Delaney has done some nice stuff in the past.

I don't think its fair to compare him to the "Greats" His cars are all nice but they are not the fabricated monsters that Cooter's car is or what TT has doen with Sickfish. How can you compare these machines as they are not on the same playground. Bob's 'Cuda is the ultimate in purpose, function, use of materials and style. Bare none. Extreme.

The heidt's IRS allows us Mopar guys to run the wide tires without mini-tubbing. At least a 315 possible a 335.

The air bar and alterkation front clip are nice pieces and as mentioned proven. Hard to beat. Can I adapt a DSE front stub under my Challenger?

[Hydratech®]

I drove this 'Cuda for a few hundred miles during this year's HRPT, and it is FANTASTIC! While it may seem subtle from its visual cues, you experience lazer sharp accuracy in everything you control when in the driver's seat. We didn't want to run all too hard at first, since this build had zero miles on it when it rolled off the trailer in Kissimee, though once it hit the 500 mile mark we let 'er rip! Modern elephant crate HEMI performance was of course on tap, but what really knocked all of our socks off was the 25 mpg average fuel economy - couldn't believe it! Vintage Air blasting ice cubes at you, megawatt sound system playing XM radio, running heavy on the loud pedal the whole time. When in the twisties and turnies, you'd drop the air bags down a bit and corner like a C6 Vette - almost uncanny.

Click here for the story:

http://www.cardomain.com/features/hotrod_part1

http://www.cardomain.com/features/hotrod_part2

BTW - This 'Cuda is just the tip of the iceberg, as Delaney Auto Design has now come to life = Matt has decided to progress from hobby status to full on builder status: http://www.dadsmopars.com/ Watch for some really wicked Mopars to roll out of his production over the next few years. :cheers:

[Bob Johnson]

I do understand that Troy, Alan, Schwartz, and the like are among the elite and I wouldn't compare thier products with a guy like Delaney's stuff. I am sure Delaney makes a living off his commercial real estate and not cars. PHR did an article on guys doing Mopars for the PT scene, Delaney, Trepanier, and others. I remember he explained his view on what he liked to build, wich is stock appearing vehicles, stock interior, and updated mechanicals. Some people like that. I never tried to draw a paralel between Delaney's car and anybody elses' car when I started this thread. Sorry to ruffle the feathers. BTW, I would like to know the general publics view on the black 'cuda and the Schwarts Poison Dart (both used Alter-k-tion and Heidt's), but not a comparison to other builds just a view on the results of each build individually. I think the Heidts is a great IRS, inboard brakes, indestructable third member, great joints and 1/2 shafts, and strong control arms. The Alter-k-tion is a proven front suspension in hard core road race to hard core drag race. Now you can get Shockwaves instead of coilovers.
I heard there were some problems with the Heidt's control arms when you put some big H.P. to them. Even heard Delaney had problems with them on the black car..

[Mean 69]

The Alter-k-tion is a proven front suspension in hard core road race to hard core drag race.

Hard core road race? Really? Where did you see that? The Reilly, and Magnum Force units were both based off of MII spindles, and packaged to fit within the confines of the Mopar, NOT to begin life as a full tilt road course handling setup. They handle much better than the stock stuff, because the stock stuff has so many issues to begin with (and I'm not even speaking of the torsion bars, that's the least of the bad issues) that it's not hard at all to make a sizeable improvement.

I met Matt briefly at the Mopars at the Strip show in Vegas early this year, and at least in my encounter, he was a really nice guy. He was willing to listen to what we had to offer without bias, and gave some great feedback on the suspension system that we showed there. Just another data point. He was a lot more approachable, by the way, than Strope was, at least at the times that I met them.

Mark

[go-fish]

By road race I mean that there are cars that are only used for off-road use, not street use, that have Alter-k-tion. Magnum Force, I doubt, can make that claim.
"It's good to point out here that all aftermarket companies simply use dimensions from various spindles to make brackets and hubs. Original mustang II's had 9" rotors, which is silly by today's standards. No one really makes parts that even resemble the stock junk, they just make their parts fit that particular spindle. They all have a few calipers and rotor sizes, and then just make hubs and caliper brackets that fit various spindles. Because the MII spindle is so popular, all of these companies offer almost everything they sell to fit it, so there are more choices than any other application.

If you look at Mopar applications, say with Wilwood, they stock 10.75" 4-piston kits and not much else. Wilwoods selection for MII applications includes 10.75",11",12.19" with 4-piston calipers, and 13" 6-piston kits - a much greater selection in off-the-shelf kits.

When looking at aftermarket brakes, the application only concerns the fitment. Don't think of it as buying ford mustang parts - think instead of what you'd like to have - 11" rotors, 12" rotors, 4-piston or 6-piston calipers, ect.

To get a good idea of what I mean, go to some brake websites like Aerospace, Baer or SSBC and look under their Mustang II listings - you'll find more sizes and styles that you ever imagined, and they'll all fit on the spindle we use." - www.reillymotorsports.com
I don't think these products were based off a spindle. The MII spindle is the spindle they use. I would go out on a limb and say that they were based off a stock Mopar K-frame while trying to get away from the torsion bar set up by using coilovers, or now, Air Ride Tech. Oh yeah and Flaming River rack and pinion, Lean69. Ohh, my mistake, the "L" and the "M" are too close together, sorry Mean. Grrrr!

[Bob Johnson]

I like the car and the stance is Killer. Delaney has done some nice stuff in the past.

I don't think its fair to compare him to the "Greats" His cars are all nice but they are not the fabricated monsters that Cooter's car is or what TT has doen with Sickfish. How can you compare these machines as they are not on the same playground. Bob's 'Cuda is the ultimate in purpose, function, use of materials and style. Bare none. Extreme.

The heidt's IRS allows us Mopar guys to run the wide tires without mini-tubbing. At least a 315 possible a 335.

The air bar and alterkation front clip are nice pieces and as mentioned proven. Hard to beat. Can I adapt a DSE front stub under my Challenger?
are you saying you can run a 315 or maybe a 335 in a stock E body wheel tub? I don't see how a Heidt's independent rear can allow you to run any bigger tire than a 8 3/4 rear or whatever rear that was the correct width for tire clearance. It's funny how everyone looks at an air ride car and say killer stance..look under it and see if the exhaust, headers, oil pan etc are visible below the chassis and have good clearance from the ground. Watch it when it goes driving off..Many of them look like a 4 wheel drives when they get it aired up for driving..That stance goes away real quick...

[Mean 69]

Oh yeah and Flaming River rack and pinion, Lean69. Ohh, my mistake, the "L" and the "M" are too close together, sorry Mean. Grrrr!

'ho-fish, I happen to know a thing or two about suspension, and as abrasive as your post is, with as many holes as it has, I'll wait until the morning to respond such that I don't (as a supplier, and supporter of this site, as well as being a Mopar fan and having produced suspension setups for them as can be found at www.lateral-dynamics.com (http://www.lateral-dynamics.com), I happen to be associated with them, sort of) state something that will be seen as offensive. Darn, sorry, the "h" is right next to the "g" on the keyboard. All in good humor, eh?! Please, trust me, I've done my homework, more than you can possibly imagine.

As for the rear tire width, I can't state specifically for an E-Body, but I can say that you can't run a 335 tire on the rear of a B-Body without reconstruction, to both the inner, and outer wheelhouses. I "suppose" you could run a big tire without outer tub work, but the result would look horrible, because the outer tubs jut inward far faster than the body lines on the outside; you'd have to tuck the wheels WAY inward, and the resulting track would look like crap. I'd guess that the E-Body would make it more dramatic, based upon the cursory measurements I have taken to date (that's being nice, no freaking way you can stick a 335 on the back of one of these cars without serious help is what I really Mean).

Mark

[go-fish]

Mark, the stuff looks good and I am glad to see that you are paying attention to e-body Mopars. There weren't many made and some of them haven't survived so there isn't as many products for them as Camaros. I do say I am impressed. Sorry for the snippiness but Alter-k-tion wasn't based on spindles. You SoCal boys get offended pretty easily. Well you are going to be competing for business so I see how you would want to diminish the competition. But I agree about the tire and was about to comment on the 335 post when I saw your, "Road race. Really?" post. Yeah, the stuff is better than stock in alot of ways and it just about the best thing out there right now, so get your stuff out there cause us mopar guys need aftermarket suspensions like the Chevy's have been enjoying for years. I don't understand the reasoning for saying how you can get a bigger tire in a well with a rearend when it is clear that the inner fender is the limitation there. ??? They were designed to have F70 polyglass' for Pete's sake, c'mon.
All in good fun Mark, there are no enemies here when you gotta worry about Siebe Al Jafar over there.

[MrQuick]

widest on a stock suspended e-body is 285/17 or 275/15. Leaf spring then is the rub factor. 335's would not leave alot of room for suspension, for the average guy that is... heh. IMHO 315's offer better balance.

I had my leafs inboard and it fits a 295 no problem.No sheetmetal wor at all. ~Bigger than that, your gonna need work, I don't care who the fick who you are...sorry that "I" is just so close....j/k smile, I am.

[go-fish]

lol. "I". I am going with the Air Ride Kit, $1495 without bags. I have QA1's up front already and will get some for the back. IMHO airbags are fun but coilovers do the job better, looks like lateral dynamics like the double adjustable Q's too. Anyway, the lower bar on the Air Bar connects to the front leaf mount. It gives approx. 1" to the wheel well. I still couldn't do 335's.
I thought about moving the leaf spring mount in, like the spring relocation kit, but it looks as though, from the Air Ride's Instruction page on thier site, it will go into heavy refabbing.
I am going to achieve the same stance as the red 'cuda that this thread was started about. It was a way of doing some opinion finding for my own ride and ended up being a defense case about why I am using what I am using. I am excited and believe in the stuff and there isn't many alternatives other than stock. If there were I would still go with Alter-k-tion. I would like to be able to spend a little more money on the rear though.

[DRJDVM's '69]

I've been looking at the AirRide stuff too for my 70 Barracuda but I want to move the mount inward to get more clearence. I was considering doing like the Dr Diff brackets that move the spring mount in about an inch. I've looked at the instructions online too and it doesnt look like there would be much more fabrication to do it that way. Just a matter of moving the mounts on the differential

If you do the full MP 4 inch relocation, then the whole angulation will be totally different and would take alot of fabrication to do it right.

As far as ride height when driving....cant the driver set that to whatever they want ?? It can be as high or low as they want it to be. Whether it be a coilover or air bag, the headers and pan etc will all sit lower than the frame. At least with the air bag, you can raise the car when you drive to save on bottoming out the car. With the coilover, you may get the wicked stance, but it stays that way when you drive and that can be an issue on "real" roads out there.

[go-fish]

Air ride is the way to go if you anticipate any screwed up roads. Bill Reilly from RMS Chassis is working with TTi I believe. The Alter-k-tion frees up so much room and nearly all headers for Mopars have the steering link going through the tubes. Hopeflly there will be a product soon to capitalize on the room.

[Bob Johnson]

I've been looking at the AirRide stuff too for my 70 Barracuda but I want to move the mount inward to get more clearence. I was considering doing like the Dr Diff brackets that move the spring mount in about an inch. I've looked at the instructions online too and it doesnt look like there would be much more fabrication to do it that way. Just a matter of moving the mounts on the differential

If you do the full MP 4 inch relocation, then the whole angulation will be totally different and would take alot of fabrication to do it right.

As far as ride height when driving....cant the driver set that to whatever they want ?? It can be as high or low as they want it to be. Whether it be a coilover or air bag, the headers and pan etc will all sit lower than the frame. At least with the air bag, you can raise the car when you drive to save on bottoming out the car. With the coilover, you may get the wicked stance, but it stays that way when you drive and that can be an issue on "real" roads out there.
anyone that understands how to build a quality piece NEVER has things hanging down under the frame rails. You want to see if a builder knows his stuff, just look under his car. If I see exhaust, trans, headers, oilpan, steering components, etc below the frame, I know the builder isn't a good fabricator. If you look under the Cuda, all you see is flat floor from one side to the other. The Battle Axe wasn't flat floored, but we had cut the tunnel and raised the engine and custom fabricated exhaust where nothing was under the frame connectors. If you had anything hanging down on the Power Tour that year, it was immediately torn off or seriously damaged on those rough roads in Mississippi and Louisiana.

[Bob Johnson]

I was at SEMA 3 or 4 years ago and a car that had won the Goodguys Street Machine of the Year that year was sitting there with the air bags down and at show stance. I looked under the car..the crossmember wasn't 1" off the ground, the oil pan was there or a little lower, the exhaust were almost touching the ground..That cool stance went away real quick when he had to air the bags up just to go down a normal street..The trick is to get at ride height, and still have clearance..that's the real challenge...Cuda has just over 5" of ground clearance, and sits lower than most other muscle cars with their air bags down and their oil pan and cross member nearly on the ground.

[go-fish]

I think it's especially cool when the exhaust runs through the frame connectors or frame rails. I forgot where I first saw that.
I put my tranny/block in today to measure for the drive shaft and saw that the Tremec was about 1 1/2" below the frame rails, sux. I wish Kiesler would have said something about that but the way I see it I will be driving it like my TDI Jetta. I avoid pot holes and warshboards like I got OCS about it. I kinda got that syndrome from driving around on back roads in my Challengers in high school with those low hangin' Hookers with the torsion bars turned way down for effect. Also the survivor Duster I had the same set up on when I moved down here to "Misippe". I am that guy that slows to idle over RR tracks in whatever I'm driving.
Bob you are right about the roads here but LA aint that bad, I-10/12 is. I lived in San Diego and Ventura for a while and found out the pavement gets smoother the closer you get to the capitol. TX has the best roads I have driven on.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Bob... I agree that not having anything hang below the framerails is ideal but alot of us cant afford (or have the skills and time to do it ourselves) to do as much fabrication as would be needed to do that on most cars. Alot of us cant just raise the motor and trans or fabricate custom floor pans etc etc. Yes, on a high dollar pro-built car, I would expect that much, but for us "common guys" that just isnt practical in most situations.

[go-fish]

Here, here. Raising the engine could be solved in my situation, however the tranny tunnel would be too involved for me. I don't havethe time or money to restructure my entire floor and trans. cross brace. I'll live with the 1 1/2" and get some of those TTi's that take advantage of the ommited torsion bars and the rack & pinion. Stll better than a stock 'cuda.

[formula]

yeah, I'd always thought of air-ride as the poor man's (well, less severely well-off man's) route to the perfect stance. A lot of us don't have the skill or money to channel a body down over the rails and then completely reengineer everything under the car and both ends of the suspension to get that crazy low ride height the pros do, but bags allow an owner to at least hit a switch and have that same look when the roads aren't treacherous.

[Bob Johnson]

I agree..i'm talking about so called builders..too many of them don't have the skills required to move everything around..Like Go fish said..kits from Kiesler, prefabbed headers etc are built for stock pans etc..They are going to hang down..so much they drag f you've got a good stance...It's just a habit of mine..I see a car with a good stance, and the first thing i do is look under it to see if he's got his shi* together..