Viper on Air!!

[darren@ridetech]

Check out the latest project we just finished for a customer. It has Double Adjustable Shockwaves front and rear and the new LevelPro compressor system.
What do you guys think?

[syborg tt]

looks very nice - i'll have to send you pics of the viper suspension that Dave is building that is also on Air (your stuff by the way)

[kennyd]

bada$$ thats all i have to say

[Tony@AirRideTech]

ok this looks gay........ not the car... but I just posted pics of the Challenger too up above for a couple guys and I did not see this down here... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... now it looks like "shameless self promotion website" ha ha ha ha ha ha Larry is gonna tell me to :getout:

[J2speedandcustom]

Looks good guys! That's gotta be sweet to pull up in the Viper and then put it on the floor. People around would be like :jawdrop:

[Damn True]

Looks good guys! That's gotta be sweet to pull up in the Viper and then put it on the floor. People around would be like :jawdrop:

or :scared: :barf: :screwy:

[darren@ridetech]

looks very nice - i'll have to send you pics of the viper suspension that Dave is building that is also on Air (your stuff by the way)

Yea, email them to me. [email protected]
I've had a few customers install Shockwaves on Vipers in the past, but this is the first one done in house.

[formula]

bahhh, i bet it drives like a school bus now. Everyone knows air springs don't handle for crap! :naughty:

looks awesome!

[ProStreet R/T]

How does it handle? I know a guy who has an all white GTS that is SLAMMED with coilovers and he was pondering going to an air ride setup. You guys doing anything for the gen II cars?

Posting links cause pics are massive:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/ohhhnoes/IMG_1525.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/ohhhnoes/IMG_1541.jpg

Personally, I don't like it, but if thats what you're into it's pretty trick.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

or :scared: :barf: :screwy:

We can certainly still do your gasser with the straight axle too! :cool:

[F70t/a]

The viper looks bitchin!!! any info on the complete setup and what controls it's using? Pics of it at ride height would be cool too:yum:

[Derek69SS]

What do you guys think?
Well, since you asked... I'm with this guy.

or :scared: :barf: :screwy:
To me, it looks "broken".

I like a stance that makes me think "Holy crap, that's low... does he really drive it that way?" rather than "Holy crap, it's sitting on the ground... did he land a jump wrong?"

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Well, since you asked... I'm with this guy.

To me, it looks "broken".

I like a stance that makes me think "Holy crap, that's low... does he really drive it that way?" rather than "Holy crap, it's sitting on the ground... did he land a jump wrong?"

To many episodes of The Dukes of Hazard will do that to you! :lmao: Besides... when you start looking at serious cars... From prostock, the saltflats to Road coarse cars... they are damn near sitting on the deck. Even look at a lot of the Vintage Trans-am cars they are racing again and those cars are low.:git:

[Damn True]

To many episodes of The Dukes of Hazard will do that to you! :lmao: Besides... when you start looking at serious cars... From prostock, the saltflats to Road coarse cars... they are damn near sitting on the deck. Even look at a lot of the Vintage Trans-am cars they are racing again and those cars are low.:git:

A salt flats racer runs on pretty flat surfaces.
A Pro-Stock racer runs on very flat surfaces.
Road Course cars have one of two things, either wheel travel or big tire sidewalls.
Your snake seems to lack both. What does your customer plan to do with that thing?



http://www.trans-amseries.com/RacePhotos.htm
I think you'll find considerable space between car and pavement. Wheel travel is sorta important.

[TonyL]

What does your customer plan to do with that thing?

Im betting on parking it and looking cool doing so.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

That car has plenty of travel!...... it is at its deflated height in those pictures. Ride height is just a tick under stock height.

[Stu Seitz]

Besides... when you start looking at serious cars... From prostock, the saltflats to Road coarse cars... they are damn near sitting on the deck. Even look at a lot of the Vintage Trans-am cars they are racing again and those cars are low.:git:

You're right, but those cars are set up for that. That bagged car is not, and I would venture to say that, the bagged car, at that ride height, handles like the Titanic compared to a Viper Comp Coupe.

Pics just for fun
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Looks Fast!

Compared to
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/07/DSCN7925-1.jpg
Looks broken

[ProStreet R/T]

You can't really go comparing a comp coupe to a production car, but even so it has to handle like ass compared to the stock coil spring setup. But it's pretty evident the owner isn't going to drive it hard anyway so I doubt it matters.


As well, saying that those other race cars sit super low to the ground. Umm yeah, last I checked they didn't have speed bumps and steep driveways in the middle of race tracks.


I love vipers, and done properly they look amazing sitting super low, but that one definitely does not. ehh I guess it takes all kinds. :dunno:

[Slow Ride]

need to bolt some titanium blocks under that bad boy, so it throws pretty sparks when he is draggin' plastic...

[Stu Seitz]

You can't really go comparing a comp coupe to a production car, but even so it has to handle like ass compared to the stock coil spring setup.

I know it's apples to oranges, but if you look at Tony's arguement that's exactly what he was comparing.

As for it being an apples and oranges comparison, I don't think that the Comp Coupe it "that" far off, from the street version. As I assume the suspension pick up points are the same, or at least it's not as differant as the Speed GT CTS-V is to the Street version.

[TonyL]

Since Tony didn't say, It's possible the car handles just as well as stock at ride height. Some of the air ride cars handle better than coilover setups.

[Stu Seitz]

Since Tony didn't say, It's possible the car handles just as well as stock at ride height.

Just so we are clear when I said Tony, I ment Tony@AirRide. Yes it is possible but I was going on what he did say


Besides... when you start looking at serious cars... From prostock, the saltflats to Road coarse cars... they are damn near sitting on the deck. Even look at a lot of the Vintage Trans-am cars they are racing again and those cars are low

Now mabye I'm being an ass for assuming but to me that sounds like he was making a direct comparison.


Some of the air ride cars handle better than coilover setups.

I'm going to use PHR G/28 as an example, as it is an apples to apples (kind of) comparison of a coilspring/shock and an air ride suspension.

Tech: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0505phr_1976_chevy_camaro_suspension_wheel_upgrade/

Now after reading this artical there was a couple things that rubed me the wrong way. Now I'll step out on a limb and assume that Air Ride Suspensions is arguably one of the most advanced air based suspensions the after market has to offer. As I was truly impressed with the adjustablity in the system as a whole. Which brings me to my next point, where was the adjustment in the coil spring/shock set up? Ohh yeah there was none. Granted I understand that G/28 is ment to be a budget project, as it some what limits shock selection, but a lot of people see it as an apples to apples comparison as to which suspension is better (yes I know there is no "best" suspension). Why didn't PHR spend a little more money on an in integral part of the suspension mabye an adjustable Penske or Bilstein rather then a POS KYB? Or mabye not just sticking with one spring rate, and heaven forbid tuning the car, rather then just throwing parts at it.

As for a coilover set up, do you really want to compare a SRT10 with Moton or Penske's to a Air Ride equipped SRT10. Now I understand that this comparison may be on one end of the spectrum, but agian I'm comparing top of the line, to top of the line. Replaceing Q1A's with Air Ride and seeing a noticable improvment isn't saying much.

[formula]

Just so we are clear when I said Tony, I ment Tony@AirRide. Yes it is possible but I was going on what he did say



Now mabye I'm being an ass for assuming but to me that sounds like he was making a direct comparison.



I'm going to use PHR G/28 as an example, as it is an apples to apples (kind of) comparison of a coilspring/shock and an air ride suspension.

Tech: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0505phr_1976_chevy_camaro_suspension_wheel_upgrade/

Now after reading this artical there was a couple things that rubed me the wrong way. Now I'll step out on a limb and assume that Air Ride Suspensions is arguably one of the most advanced air based suspensions the after market has to offer. As I was truly impressed with the adjustablity in the system as a whole. Which brings me to my next point, where was the adjustment in the coil spring/shock set up? Ohh yeah there was none. Granted I understand that G/28 is ment to be a budget project, as it some what limits shock selection, but a lot of people see it as an apples to apples comparison as to which suspension is better (yes I know there is no "best" suspension). Why didn't PHR spend a little more money on an in integral part of the suspension mabye an adjustable Penske or Bilstein rather then a POS KYB? Or mabye not just sticking with one spring rate, and heaven forbid tuning the car, rather then just throwing parts at it.

As for a coilover set up, do you really want to compare a SRT10 with Moton or Penske's to a Air Ride equipped SRT10. Now I understand that this comparison may be on one end of the spectrum, but agian I'm comparing top of the line, to top of the line. Replaceing Q1A's with Air Ride and seeing a noticable improvment isn't saying much.

While i agree with most of what you're saying, one thing i'd like to point out that air shocks, at least in performance applications, are still pretty much in their infancy. Thus, the "line" that air ride shockwaves are at the top of is still much shorter. So, effectively, there is not yet any air spring suspension that is "as far up the line", so to speak, as motion or penske coilovers. There's noone out there (yet?) running these things on a full-out, hardcore race application, nor is the technology there for such a car to exist yet, but when it does, I expect to see leaps and bounds forward in the performance levels from air springs.

Considering where air springs were a decade ago and the reputation they still carry today, i think that replacing even a good traditional-style performance suspension (i.e. coils and leaves) with air ride and seeing a performance improvement at all is saying a lot about how far the technology has advanced. The idea that air ride could be better than a mid-level performance suspension (i.e. qa1 based) was ludicrous even a few years ago.

You're right, though. For a full-out, hardcore track car, air ride is stupid. You're sacrificing the ability to tune spring rate and ride height independently. However, on a street-strip car, it blends on-the-fly spring rate tunability with excellent ride quality and mid-front-pack track performance. That, to me, is a tough combo to beat.

[element180]

Ymm yeah, last I checked they didn't have speed bumps and steep driveways in the middle of race tracks.

Hey there's an idea.Let's make racing more interesting.And throw some of those cardboard cut-outs of pedestrians popping up from the ground like in the movies.:drive2:

[darren@ridetech]

The viper looks bitchin!!! any info on the complete setup and what controls it's using? Pics of it at ride height would be cool too:yum:

We used the ARC4000L LevelPro compressor kit. That's the one with the new leveling system. Here is a pic of ride height and 4wd mode.

[darren@ridetech]

As for a coilover set up, do you really want to compare a SRT10 with Moton or Penske's to a Air Ride equipped SRT10. Now I understand that this comparison may be on one end of the spectrum, but agian I'm comparing top of the line, to top of the line. Replaceing Q1A's with Air Ride and seeing a noticable improvment isn't saying much.

Hey, there not much stopping us from sliding an air spring over a set of Penske's, except for money.....

I figured there would be some mixed opinions about this car. But personally, I like it!

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Just a side note here: the arguement against an air ride car being too low (speed bumps, steep driveways, etc) is an incredibly specious arguement, which is actually quite contrary. The car is so low, how could it ever get by in normal day to day driving? Oh, that's right -- it's bagged, and thus the owner can raise or lower the car to his hearts contentment. At a show -- drop it. Steep driveway or speed bump? --4x4 mode as outlined above. When a slammed car with coil overs comes to a speed bump where it does not have sufficicent clearance -- What does it do? Break out the wrenches and start raising the car in the parking lot, or reverse and head home? The Air Ride guy next to you has to hit one switch.

As for the performance of the systems, I think they've proven themselves to be well handling systems (as good as traditional c/o's on a tuned suspension -- probably not, but I'll let you guys argue that amongst yourselves).

[formula]

We used the ARC4000L LevelPro compressor kit. That's the one with the new leveling system. Here is a pic of ride height and 4wd mode.

hah, you know what that 4wd shot reminds me of? anybody remember the early-90's tv show "viper", with the super-cool transforming cop viper?

can't find any shots of it, but one of their stunt vehicles used modified dakota running gear for off-road shots. It sat just like that car lol.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/07/defend-1.jpg

[chicane67]

Besides... when you start looking at serious cars... From prostock, the saltflats to Road coarse cars... they are damn near sitting on the deck. Even look at a lot of the Vintage Trans-am cars they are racing again and those cars are low.

Yup. You are correct...... but then again, they are not on bags, nor will they ever be. They are set up with performance suspensions, not some "bling-able" idea to drop it in the weeds to mearly look cool in a parking-lot. Real performance and bags are to very different things.

Or....

If you still wear your baseball cap sidewayz with your boxer shorts hangin out..... "It looks wicked laced out, yo." And maybe if you find yourself still using the phrases of 'fo shizzle my nizzle' , walk with a limp and actually think an H2 is really a 'Hummer'.... "Its mad fly pimpin. G".

Yeah... yeah, I know. Bags have come a long way in the past 5 years or so..... I was baggin sleds 15 years ago, but it was as novel then as it is now. Infancy !?!! How about, they are still a little pre-mature ?? Give them another 5 years and lets see what happends. the control units and smart technology will do them some good. Would be pretty cool to integrate and active ride height control that worked off of vehicle speed tho......

In consideration to true performance, please dont waste a set of Penskes. Its probably a good idea that you guys, basically dont want to afford them..... leave them to people who dont care about blingy parking lot showcars and can actually use them. :wedgie:

The snake..... does look pretty cool in the weeds though.

[formula]

foamy (which by the way is the best avatar ever), out of curiosity....on the same shock, what would the performance difference between an airspring and a coil-over spring with the same spring rate and ride height?

And you say you were baggin sleds 15 years ago...how long ago were you baggin sleds and then racing them? How long ago was anyone even considering trying to mix air springs and race tracks? That's why I said it's still in its infancy in performance applications.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

here is a little salt in the wounds for some of you guys.......:)

[F70t/a]

We used the ARC4000L LevelPro compressor kit. That's the one with the new leveling system. Here is a pic of ride height and 4wd mode.


Thanks for the pics:smoke: Keep up the good work

[Tony@AirRideTech]

here is a few more different images that I have come across.....

Darren..... did we ever get images of the Crafstman truck that we fitted that "they" were going to do some testing with? If you have some and post em, make sure you dont post any of the exterior skin. "they" would be a little upset....

[ProStreet R/T]

Ok out of cuirosity. With the viper at normal ride height, what is the spring rate of the airbags?

Is there a variable accumulator in the system to control how progressive the system is, and to alter the specific spring rate?

[Tony@AirRideTech]

On that particular application I could not give you the specs because I was not that close to the project. The tapered sleeve and rolling lobe airspring we used on there are not nearly as progressive though as the common double convoluted springs.

[kennyd]

tony , what is the engine and cradle going in ?

[jb@ridetech]

wow, i see you guys like the viper, now we need to talk him into coming to the street challenge so we can put this subject to rest....

[Tony@AirRideTech]

That thing is wicked isnt it........ that is actually going in a kit car that is built by Shelby Super Cars up in Oregon. They are not your run of the mill kit cars... they take these things pretty seriously :seizure: Serious and pricey enough that I dont even have the heart to call them a kit car. :)

[ProStreet R/T]

wow, i see you guys like the viper, now we need to talk him into coming to the street challenge so we can put this subject to rest....

Actually if you want to put it to rest lets run it against a viper with a nice coilover setup.

Viper Nationals in Columbus is the weekend after next if you're in the area. If not maybe something else can be arranged.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

I would not have any fears or problem in doing that.... unfortunately, its not our car. This was a paying customer and it is his car to do with what he wants.

[EFI69Cam]

Can it jump?

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Sorry man...... we dont so that here......

[EFI69Cam]

Sorry man...... we dont so that here......

I was just messing with you.

The work you all do looks top-notch.

[formula]

Can it jump?

Haha people keep asking me stuff like that about my bird. "you gonna make it so it'll 3-wheel?"

uhhno.

[TonyL]

this is why there needs to be an Airride race team. whats the rules of SCCA say?

-asking what the spring rate is of an airbag is impossible. It changes with the PSI of the bag, and weight of the car as well as a host of other variables. Spring rate just doesn't apply as the core data here.

I feel for you guys at airride. It's like beating your head on a wall. huh?

the lincoln mark VIII was an air ride car, and handled AWESOME. So air ride as a performance suspension has been proven by a major manufacturer. Im sure they did their homework. What we lack is hard core test data. or a winning race car.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

One of the instructors at the Bonduraunt Driving School just set his SCCA car up on air and the last I talked to him he was very confident in the car so we will see what happens there. Also with all of the track events and autocrosses we are doing along with the data that we are collecting I think will help us out.

[Bill Howell]

Tony, Bret, and crew, It is obvious to me by reading this thread that some here have not seen ya'll "gathering information" with your cars at any of the events you have done. I am so looking forward to watching ya'll "gather more info" here in Pigeon Forge in Sept.
I just love reading how terrible these bagged cars perform.......especially from the bench racers.........:moon:

[shmoov69]

It would be pretty cool looking if it were laying flat all the way back. But just the front, well.....kinda broken. Dump the back for parking and then it is a sweet looker!
BTW- That Pantera and Willys are friggin' awesome!

[darren@ridetech]

Couldn't get the rear any lower, it's on the fender well. I think the customer is more concerned with the ride quality.