Gotta get a bolt out w/o ruining the threads...help!!

[formula]

Ok, so first the back story. On 70-78 firebirds, the sway bar bolts are held in place by "nutserts" or "threadserts", depending on who you ask. These are big rivet-style things that pop up into the frame, with threads on the inside for a bolt to thread up into. These were used because they were actually stronger than a bare threaded frame, and the weight of pontiac motors combined with the agressive suspension design made them necessary. However, after around 25 years, these lil guys like to break and spin freely when you go to remove the bolts inside of them. The only way to remove the swaybar at this point is to cut the bolt heads and (traditionally) drill out and insert new threadserts.

I want to avoid that, if at all possible. I've cut my bolts, and tack welded the spinning ones so they no longer spin. Now all I have to do is get what's left of the bolts out. I have an ez-out bit, but it won't drill into the bolt. I tried welding a nut onto the bolt, but either because of my crappy welding or just there not being enough material, it rips off before it turns the bolt.

CAN YOU GUYS HELP ME?!?!

[zbugger]

Drill a hole about half way into the bolt with a normal type bit. Well, one that is for metal. Then you can carefully try the ez-out bit. You might also want to soak the bolt in some sort of wd-40 kinda thing.

[Matt@RFR]

Try welding a body washer to the bolt remains, then weld a nut to the washer on the outside of the nut. Easier to do usually if you have the room.

[derekf]

Could you pound the remaining nutsert and bolt-part up into the frame and retrieve it that way? I reckon you're going to have to replace the nutserts anyway.

[formula]

I'm gonna try everything I can to save the nutserts. Right now all four of them are tacked solid, and both of the back bolts came out fine, and both of the fronts were coming out before they started spinning...great call on the washer/nut combo, kinda embarrassed that I didn't think of just using a regular drill bit.

I'll try everything out tomorrow and update.

[EFI69Cam]

After welding, while still hot, but not super hot, quench it with wd40. The wd will get in there better and help loosen it.

I used this technique on some exhaust manifold studs that broke on me, and was able to get them out.

[6'9"Witha69]

Off topic, but where do you get these "nutserts"?

[formula]

Off topic, but where do you get these "nutserts"?

No clue. I thought maybe ebay, but I can only find the little aluminum ones that are used in electrical stuff. These bad boys are 5/8", steel.

which is part of the reason i'm doing my best to salvage them.

[Madspeed]

You want to take your easy out set and throw it in the trash first off
And Use the method Matt said
I have explained that technique over and over time and time again
I wish somone would sticky it already.

The only thing I would change with Matts way is weld the washer then weld the nut from the center out quench with WD as said b4

Then this is THE IMPORTANT part
DO NOT try to just twist the bolt out
take your time and Gently work the bolt back and forth (tighten First then loosen) do this untill it frees up and wala

I stopped using easy outs when I was 16 they are a complete waste of your time
I can get out 3 or 4 broken bolts with the weld technique b4 you can even drill one

Gl those buggers are mean

Ken F

[Madspeed]

Off topic, but where do you get these "nutserts"?
Try Snap on or matco tools

even better try a fastener place
they are not impossible to find

[JoshStratton]

"nutserts"....lol, sounds like a mint for your crotch.

[bretcopsey]

See what you need here?

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PSearch2.asp?reqTyp=parametric&act=psearch&FAM=nutinserts&session=desc=Nuts;nutinserts&sesnextrep=533235095356957&ScreenWidth=1024&McMMainWidth=788

You might also try www.grainger.com (http://www.grainger.com)

5/8 seems awfully large for shank diameter of those bolts...

[formula]

they may be 3/8, sorry.

Good call on the wiggling idea...I'm hoping they're not really stuck, though, since they were turning before the nutserts broke. I may end up needing that tip on the back somewhere, though, so it's certainly appreciated.

[Bow Tie 67]

You want to take your easy out set and throw it in the trash first off
And Use the method Matt said
I have explained that technique over and over time and time again
I wish somone would sticky it already.

The only thing I would change with Matts way is weld the washer then weld the nut from the center out quench with WD as said b4

Then this is THE IMPORTANT part
DO NOT try to just twist the bolt out
take your time and Gently work the bolt back and forth (tighten First then loosen) do this untill it frees up and wala

I stopped using easy outs when I was 16 they are a complete waste of your time
I can get out 3 or 4 broken bolts with the weld technique b4 you can even drill one

Gl those buggers are mean

Ken F

I have worked on aircraft for over 20 years and removed numerous panel screws. The only time I try an easy out is if the fastener is flush with the surface. If a screw / bolt does not want to loosen or starts to strip I will try and tighten it first. This works wonders on breaking the initial grip the threads have. One note, this is primarily for screws, but I have had luck with bolts also. Also if you have access to the threads that are exposed through the nut, clean them with a dental pick and spray with a penetrating oil.

[Madspeed]

I have worked on aircraft for over 20 years and removed numerous panel screws. The only time I try an easy out is if the fastener is flush with the surface. If a screw / bolt does not want to loosen or starts to strip I will try and tighten it first. This works wonders on breaking the initial grip the threads have. One note, this is primarily for screws, but I have had luck with bolts also. Also if you have access to the threads that are exposed through the nut, clean them with a dental pick and spray with a penetrating oil.

Bowtie you should do what Matt said on the flush bolts as well as bolts below or above the surface
You use a washer first and weld the center to it then weld a nut to the washers center You too will throw your easey outs in the trash
=)

[MrQuick]

honestly, i don't even waste my time on that stock thread threw design anymore.

I just drill them holes out to 7/16". drill two 7/16" holes in a 1/8" steel plate, get two 7/16" fine thread bolts drop them in the plate tack the heads to the plate then drop the plate with bolts down into the holes in the frame from the inside.

Mount the sway bar, 4 nuts and washers.
Torque down and your good to go.

Instant sway bar plate studs. 20-25 min

[formula]

honestly, i don't even waste my time on that stock thread threw design anymore.

I just drill them holes out to 7/16". drill two 7/16" holes in a 1/8" steel plate, get two 7/16" fine thread bolts drop them in the plate tack the heads to the plate then drop the plate with bolts down into the holes in the frame from the inside.

Mount the sway bar, 4 nuts and washers.
Torque down and your good to go.

Instant sway bar plate studs. 20-25 min

I'd considered something similar, but i can't seem to figure out a way to get the plates in there on a second-gen frame rail without cutting a hole somewhere.

I'd thought about doing something like this. The holes are drilled out, and then slits are cut on either side to allow the hardware to slide up in sideways. The washers hold everything in when it's dropped back through vertically, the side plates prevent the bolts from spinning while torquing. Good idea, bad idea?

[MrQuick]

no, thats a great idea. Most new cars use that style for mounting bumpers and such. Most are crimped on and hold very well.
On getting the plate into the right location can be a challenge. When doing the dual bolt plate method the plate only needs to be a 1/4" wider than the bolt hole. ie: 7/16" bolts = 1" wide plate. This way you only need a 1 1/2" opening. I've gone in from the rear frame hole before.
You can go in at the front of the frame or bumper bracket access holes . Or in later models where the rad support completely covers front holes I just get nasty with a hole saw. I do both sides evenly so they can pass for factory.

One tip that you will be able to use here:

using thin wire ie: safety wire.
Spiral one end to fit the bolt threads tightly
pass the other end of the wire through the entry point
exit the hole the bolt will pass through
now just pull the wire through and guide it with a driver or magnet till the bolt exits it designated hole.

It will take a few tries but works very well.

[formula]

alright, cool.

Another thought I had--both of the back nutserts are still undamaged. Should I go to the trouble of drilling them out? Or should I just tack them in place to prevent them from spinning in the future and just pop the new bolts that came with the swaybar in the back ones? then I could make plates for just the fronts...

[Madspeed]

If you can get the bolts out the clean the threads with a tap and use antiseize on the threads of the new bolts and you will never have this problem again

[formula]

Good news: the driver's side bolt is out, and the nutsert is unharmed and welded in place.

Bad news: there are currently no threads accessible from the side on the passenger bolt. It ultimately took a combo of two different style ez-outs and a drill bit and vice grips to get the driver side out, so I think I have a plan.

Any unmentioned advice specifically for if the bolt's flush with the surface?

[Jim Nilsen]

One last way to do this is to drill the whole damn things out of the way with a bit the o.d. of the nuts you will be using and then use a piece of plate and put the holes in it at the dimensions to mount the bracket. Put the bolts tightened into your nuts in the plate and weld the nuts to the plate and then weld the plate to the frame rail.
This is how I mounted my swaybar bracket/mount to my frame and it is stronger than any other way to mount them I can think of.

Jim Nilsen

[Madspeed]

You want to take your easy out set and throw it in the trash first off
And Use the method Matt said
I have explained that technique over and over time and time again
I wish somone would sticky it already.

The only thing I would change with Matts way is weld the washer then weld the nut from the center out quench with WD as said b4

Then this is THE IMPORTANT part
DO NOT try to just twist the bolt out
take your time and Gently work the bolt back and forth (tighten First then loosen) do this untill it frees up and wala

I stopped using easy outs when I was 16 they are a complete waste of your time
I can get out 3 or 4 broken bolts with the weld technique b4 you can even drill one

Gl those buggers are mean

Ken F

Was this the answer you asked for?

[formula]

Was this the answer you asked for?

Worked on the driver's side, but the passenger side is perfectly flush with its surroundings...still trying to figure something out.

[cagedruss]

Find yourself a reverse cut drill bit. I have had lots of luck getting old rusted chassis bolts out that broke with them. Sometimes the force of drilling will help free up the broken bolt. That is if you have to use a easy out. I prefere the flutes from Mac or Snap-on.

[Madspeed]

Worked on the driver's side, but the passenger side is perfectly flush with its surroundings...still trying to figure something out.

Let me clarify
I can get broken bolts out that are broken down inside the threads this way

If the bolt is 3/8" then take a 3/8" flat washer place the washer over the bolt and weld from the center of the broken bolt out to the washer.
Then take a 3/8" nut or even larger one and eld that to the washer from the center out like a plugweld
While it is still hot spray some penetrant lube at it trying to get it to soak into the threads.
Grab your wrench and Tighten it very little at first then loosen and tighten. Keeep repeating this tighten loosen process untill you can back it out the rest of the way just make shure your not trying to loosen or tighten so much that you break the weld or nut off. If it breaks you will have to just do it again

I use this technique at least once a week for the machine shop next door to me (because I have a mig and tig welder and he does not)

[formula]

Let me clarify
I can get broken bolts out that are broken down inside the threads this way

If the bolt is 3/8" then take a 3/8" flat washer place the washer over the bolt and weld from the center of the broken bolt out to the washer.
Then take a 3/8" nut or even larger one and eld that to the washer from the center out like a plugweld
While it is still hot spray some penetrant lube at it trying to get it to soak into the threads.
Grab your wrench and Tighten it very little at first then loosen and tighten. Keeep repeating this tighten loosen process untill you can back it out the rest of the way just make shure your not trying to loosen or tighten so much that you break the weld or nut off. If it breaks you will have to just do it again

I use this technique at least once a week for the machine shop next door to me (because I have a mig and tig welder and he does not)

I didn't even consider that for this side...I was thinking hey, since it ain't sticking up, can't weld on it. Duhhh just fill it up with weld then weld to the washer. Thanks for the smack in the head, lol

[osdmike]

Hi !
I found this in HOTROD-magazine.
"50 Best Tips&Tricks"
"Free Rusty Bolts"

50 Best Tips & Tricks (http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/41918/photo_34.html)

Osdmike

[Madspeed]

I didn't even consider that for this side...I was thinking hey, since it ain't sticking up, can't weld on it. Duhhh just fill it up with weld then weld to the washer. Thanks for the smack in the head, lol


Hey anyway I can be usefull to ya Im glad
just remember ANTISEZE is your friend =)

[Tiger]

I dont know if this will work since you have nutserts since they might absorb to much of the heat.

I once broke a bolt inside an iron SBC head.
what I did was to heat the remains of the bolt inside the head to a dark cherry red color with a torch, then turn fuel off and oxy over to full and blow the remains of the bolt out.
I let the head cool down and cleaned the threads with a tap.

this is DANGEROUS!
its allot easier if you have the workpeace on the bench.

[ProTouring442]

One thing I'll add... the heat a quench thing is a great idea, but use PB-Blaster instead of WD40. WD40 is a great water dispersant, a boderline lubricant, and a crappy penetrating oil. PB-Blaster is a catalyzing rust remover/lubricant. I've used it with great success on bolts that were quite stuck. Just spray it on every once in a while for at least an hour, and let it do its job.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Jim Nilsen]

PB blaster works best if it can stay on for 24 hrs to do it's job, it even says on the label that it works better if left on longer to penetrate. Had friend who put it on a manifold bolt he couldn't get loose and when he came back the next day it came loose and he busted his knuckles really bad thinking it was going to be as hard as the day before to get it loose.

I like PB blaster a lot:cheers: