GW Cat5 leaf springs

[BlackNBlueRS/SS]

I'm not sure I understand how the spherical bearings help handling. I would think that they allow the springs to rotate (it may be a negligible amount) and shift the rear-end out of alignment with the body. Wouldn't the lateral rigidity help the body stay centered over the rear-end, and the weight of the car (and the vertical movement of the springs synonmous with compression/decompression in front springs) do everything you need to keep the rear wheels flat?

Sorry, this may be a moot (or poorly thought out) question, but I've been trying to figure out what the $400 advantage of these cat 5 leafs is.

Thank you.

:worship:

[Lowend]

This is a simple answer to a complecated question...
Basically the front spring eyes need to be able to rotate in 3 axis in the mounts to allow for height differences from side to side in the rearend.
Ie if a car is sitting with one wheel on a higher surface than the other, the rearend needs to be able to sit on the diagnol... sorta

[Boyd]

... Basically the front spring eyes need to be able to rotate in 3 axis in the mounts to allow for height differences from side to side in the rearend....

So I shouldn't install solid eye bushings in the front spring eyes? I'm getting ready to re-install my rear and was going to install a GW Del-A-Lum bushing and shackle kit. If solid bushings in the front spring eyes are a no-no, then why does a supposed industry leader in performance suspension offer them?

[Boyd]

Pretty Please?

[Mkelcy]

So I shouldn't install solid eye bushings in the front spring eyes? I'm getting ready to re-install my rear and was going to install a GW Del-A-Lum bushing and shackle kit. If solid bushings in the front spring eyes are a no-no, then why does a supposed industry leader in performance suspension offer them?

Not a no-no, but they do effectively increase the leaf spring rates and act, to a certain extent, as an anti-roll bar.

[zbugger]

Boyd, they work great in a straight line application.

[wendell]

Boyd,
Don't sweat the solid bushings. They will stop the spring from moving forward and backward under accelaraion and braking. That's good.

Monoballs are attractive because they do the same thing while allowing the leaf to be responsible solely for controling axel movement in the vertical plane. The degree of freedom that the ball provides removes the twisting force on the spring. That's good IF you know you don't want that force (roll stiffness).

Folks get confussed at PT-com because the people asking for and giving advice come from radically different backgrounds and have radically difference goals for their cars. It's important to keep that in mind.

I have a street cruiser 67 camaro and prep a road race 68 camaro. I come up with different solutions for the two.

[Lowend]

So I shouldn't install solid eye bushings in the front spring eyes? I'm getting ready to re-install my rear and was going to install a GW Del-A-Lum bushing and shackle kit. If solid bushings in the front spring eyes are a no-no, then why does a supposed industry leader in performance suspension offer them?

This is a good question. The solid spring eye bushings create bind in the rear suspension. If you look at GW's website they reccomend against using a rear swaybar and use very stiff springs up front (750lbs/inch vs stock 360lbs/inch). This is used to tune the rest of the suspension around the bind in the rear.
Its not a bad way to go on a street car, but clearly the fine tuning is limited.
Using a spherical bearing allow for the use of a rear sway bar, and more variation in the spring rates in the front.

[BlackNBlueRS/SS]

Ie if a car is sitting with one wheel on a higher surface than the other, the rearend needs to be able to sit on the diagnol... sorta

Wouldn't the entire side (front and rear) be on a higher surface, and therefore the whole car would be on a diagonal. Unless you were parked, or hit a pothole (or a bumper that fell off) :drive1:

wouldn't the leafspring itself compress to absorb the temporary force.

Obviously I'm missing something...Don't you want the leaf spring to act as or supplement the work done by a rear swaybar? It would seem that you definitely would want a rear swaybar if using the spherical bearing springs, but I don't understand the benefit.

I'm sure it's just me.:yeah:

[Beige]

By seperating vertical stiffness and roll stiffness, it's easier to adjust them seperately.

[David Pozzi]

GW warns against using a solid bushing in the front eye and anything that can flex in the rear like rubber or polly. The rear flex allows the springs to act like pry bars on the rather flimsy three bolts holding the front leaf hangers.

The cat5 leafs reduce corner exit oversteer, the spring twist is uncontrolled and initally starts by compressing the bushings (polly or rubber), then twisting the spring. The spring twist part is more severe and usually happens at corner exit.

[Mkelcy]

GW warns against using a solid bushing in the front eye and anything that can flex in the rear like rubber or polly. The rear flex allows the springs to act like pry bars on the rather flimsy three bolts holding the front leaf hangers.

So, spherical bushings at both ends?

[David Pozzi]

So, spherical bushings at both ends?

Yes, that's what GW does. Spherical in each end of the leaf, then a sleeve in the top shackle position to control side to side movement.

The main caution was to not use a solid sleeve in the front eye, and rubbber shackle bushings in the rear. Hard cornering would pry on the front leaf brackets.
David

[Boyd]

So if I run the complete Del-A-Lum bushing kit front and rear, I should not use a rear sway bar, correct? And if I want to use a rear sway bar, then I should use rubber in the front spring eye and keep the solid bushings out back? Si ?

[Lowend]

yep

[Bandit]

So I shouldn't install solid eye bushings in the front spring eyes? I'm getting ready to re-install my rear and was going to install a GW Del-A-Lum bushing and shackle kit. If solid bushings in the front spring eyes are a no-no, then why does a supposed industry leader in performance suspension offer them?
I am reviving this post because I am trying to "tune" my new suspension setup, and after careful reading of some of these older posts, I wonder if I have it set up right. I still haven't found a definitive answer on whether or not I should have a solid front leaf bushing installed. I have Hotchkis TVS with a solid aluminum bushing in the front spring eye.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/02/2472100-1.jpg
I have Competition Engineering Slide-link bars installed and these are the bushings that came with them. I have since learned that the traction bars are not really necessary with my Hotchkis leafs, but will they hurt performance? The rear leaf shackles have the Hotchkis poly bushings installed. I also have the Hotchkis rear swaybar installed.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/02/5782380-1.jpg
My car is 100% street driven at this point, although I would like to get it out on a road track in the future, and maybe make a few passes at the drags as well. Mostly though, I want it to handle well on the street. I haven't had the chance to really thrash on the car with this setup but I am wondering, will this setup work ok, or do I have it all wrong?