theres a Stampede to SEMA 2006

[the sander]

WHEN SUPER JUST ISN'T SUPER ENOUGH, AND ITS NO LONGER UNIQUE, THEN STEP UP TO THE ULTIMATE MUSCLE CAR......its definatley the year of the Mustang but there is going to be no comparison to what is being built in an Igloo up here in Canada...........Go to WWW.HOTRODSRESTOS.COM (http://www.HOTRODSRESTOS.COM)
to see the Ultimate 66 Mustang that will be at SEMA

[camcojb]

nice car, but kinda cocky for a first post.

Jody

[F70t/a]

I agree!! That is one SickA$$ stang I want to see done:yeah:

[enzo]

get it done then let us compare

[Rolling_Thunder]

wow... a mustang... havent seen one of those before....

[Damn True]

Is that a DVD player and LCD screen?

[ProdigyCustoms]

DriveSoft I assume? Looks cool, but damn some exhaust heat off those turbos on the legs? Unless it isn't driven, then it is not a problem.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

sick stang.. but ill stick with my favs..

[Charley Lillard]

Wow...amazing amount of fab work. Neat car but I think the wheels belong on a Escalade.

[69Nova]

Cool car. But its not the ultimate. I think it's imposible to be the ultimate. Sorry.

[Bob Johnson]

WHEN SUPER JUST ISN'T SUPER ENOUGH, AND ITS NO LONGER UNIQUE, THEN STEP UP TO THE ULTIMATE MUSCLE CAR......its definatley the year of the Mustang but there is going to be no comparison to what is being built in an Igloo up here in Canada...........Go to WWW.HOTRODSRESTOS.COM (http://www.HOTRODSRESTOS.COM)
to see the Ultimate 66 Mustang that will be at SEMA
You'll get some argument from me about ultimate muscle car..you'll get an argument out of the Ring Bros, and Alloway about best Mustang at SEMA..You can find out for sure at GG Columbus 07..it is not my personal taste to have a thick looking cow catcher front on any car..rest of the car is shaping up nice..but he's got his work cut out for him against those other 2 stangs. The Cuda will also be back at SEMA 06..

[BADVELLE]

We have seen this one before, anyway, looks like it will be a very cool car. However, I said it before and I will say it again, my personal pet peeve is when you use a wheel and not enough tire! If those are the same tires that will run on this car, it is unfortunate that this will evidently just be another pretty show car or trailer car. I hope that is not the case, but you are definitely not going to take the chance in a high speed corner or pot hole at speed!

Why does everyone have to have a exotic engine combination (well not so exotic anymore), with what appears to be no intention of running to its potential??? I don't get it!

[torval]

From the looks of it, it'll turn out to be a very sweet ride, comin along nicely!

[the sander]

Just last night I finally registered to this forum after countless nights of reading posts from the rest of the community... thought it was a good group of guys until my very first thread I posted was removed and told it was more suited for the deleted folder...

"Theres a stampeed to SEMA 2006"

I guess trying to show others the car my buddy is building just isn't allowed. Yes, I know it's another mustang. But I do think its at Alloway's and Ring Brothers level, and may be even better. Guess we'll have to wait till SEMA to find out...
Well for those who want a chance to view it go to
WWW.HOTRODSRESTOS.COM (http://www.HOTRODSRESTOS.COM)

[Damn True]

Pretty sure there is no problem showing off a build in progress. You'll find tons of that hereabout. Think about the tone of your post (this one, and the first) and I'm sure you'll be able to figure out why your post was deleted.

[zbugger]

Please turn off the caps lock.

I did it for him. (tony)

[the sander]

sorry wasn't trying to anger any one, might have come off alittle cocky, no harm intended....but I am very proud of what my friend is building and wanted to share it with everyone, theres been alot of discusion about other mustangs latley and thought other members would like to see it.......again sorry if i hurt someones feeling.

[Chad-1stGen]

I like some of the cars at that page. What kind of rims are those on the 63 vette?

[dropit69]

welcome to the site..im sure your proud of your buddies build as it seems to be an awesome ride..the final product will talk for itself..as you might see we have some huge high dollar cars here..bob's latest "smoty" and then theres budget built cars that are just as awesome to the owner so just enjoythe site and you can be cocky but it comes in time with us getting to know you..trust me plenty of cocky asses here..lol:secret:

[Chad-1stGen]

Well I thought I liked the 63 vette but that Mustang is killer. Not sure about the computer though. What is that item tucked in the inner fender with 18HD on it?

Also chill out a little. I understand you might be excited and though I didn't see the other post, lots of in your face attitutde doesn't go over to well around here.

[TonyL]

Actually Im unclear why it was removed, probably due to the claim that this car is the Ultimate or something along those lines... the thread was headed down a bad road so it was moved. We weren't trying to silence you or news about that car. It's been posted here before a couple of times, and is no doubt, one of the best examples of the next level of streetrod/street machine cars out there.

Sorry about the confusion. Don't take it personally.

[TonyL]

What is that item tucked in the inner fender with 18HD on it?

I think its a capacitor for the stereo.

[novanutcase]

Damn that Rosie is SWEET!!! I was wondering, you guys seem to be pretty well versed in the Dragging thing. It looks like you are doing a pro/street car. Is this correct or are you going full pro-tour?

[ilovefirstgens]

Maaaaan you are lucky you posted this stuff on a site with as many forgiving people as this!!!


Try and realise whats going on from our point of view...

New guy comes in only talks about how awesome his "buddies" car is. Reminds me of elementary school when the puny kid(noob) tells everyone how his dad can kick their dads' ass...

So you know a guy who works in or owns a shop that builds high dollar cars, big freakin deal :bsjerk:


Loose the attitude and your cool, but come in here with a bad attitude and to boot no mention of skill or knowledge and you will have a very brief and unpleasant stay.

[trapin]

Incredible fabrication work on that Mustang. It should be an incredible car when it's done. However...the wheels are a major bummer. Too damn big...and rubber bands for tires.

If I could ask a question....what am I supposed to be scared of? I don't get the title of your post.

[TonyL]

ilovefirstgens

try and realise that tones of voice and interpitations are very easy to get wrong on message boards. Your comment only rekindles the flames that closed the other thread down. Instead of slamming the guy, why not give him the benifit of the doubt, and let him learn how an emoticon can change how a post is percived instead of throwing him to the lions eh?


So you know a guy who works in or owns a shop that builds high dollar cars, big freakin deal:bsjerk:

you realise following that quote up with "lose the attitude" is ironic right?

He's proud of his friends work. So are alot of us.

[hotrods]

Just curious about the way people are allowed to talk and praise a builder that has a well know name and to the statement about the car needing to be finnished to say whether it will stand up to the other mustangs that are being built I know and guarantee it will stand up to the other cars. I admit that Sander sounded a little cocky but you are a pretty tight group and to others that do not know you and are on the outside looking in it sounds alot like bragging about all the builders that you yourselves have an admoration for. I have one thing to say and that the car we are building will be a beautful car and is also going to be a driver not a show queen or something that you just take on a little tour threw a few twisty mountian roads but is going to the salt flats and will get the hell driven out of it. hope I also did not piss anyone off here saying this, I dont post often but felt compelled to on this issue. I wish everyone the best success with their builds whether they are a budget dollar car or a big dollar car like the Rings or Alloway's ( by the way I have met the Ring brothers and talk to them now and then and think they are great guys)

[novanutcase]

Here's an idea.....why don't we all just agree to try and be respectful to one another and understand that, yes, some of us have biases toward certain builders/manufacturers and leave it at that. Yes, there are degrees in which certain statements cross the line of taste but this is a free country and the reason it is free is because dissenting voices have just as much right as the status quo in saying how they feel.:cheers:

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I've merged both of your threads. The explainations for why the thread was originally moved to the deleted threads forum can be found throughout several replies within this thread.

[Bob Johnson]

sorry wasn't trying to anger any one, might have come off alittle cocky, no harm intended....but I am very proud of what my friend is building and wanted to share it with everyone, theres been alot of discusion about other mustangs latley and thought other members would like to see it.......again sorry if i hurt someones feeling.
you didn't hurt anyones feelings...it's just foolish to be bragging about a car that's going to be competing against a couple of the industries top builders, especially when you haven't even seen their cars. Maybe it will be better..but I seriously doubt it...I'll be the first to brag on it if it is...good luck..

[WEAVER]

Is that a DVD player and LCD screen?
BIG SCREEN T.V.????:dunno:

[Bob Johnson]

Just curious about the way people are allowed to talk and praise a builder that has a well know name and to the statement about the car needing to be finnished to say whether it will stand up to the other mustangs that are being built I know and guarantee it will stand up to the other cars. I admit that Sander sounded a little cocky but you are a pretty tight group and to others that do not know you and are on the outside looking in it sounds alot like bragging about all the builders that you yourselves have an admoration for. I have one thing to say and that the car we are building will be a beautful car and is also going to be a driver not a show queen or something that you just take on a little tour threw a few twisty mountian roads but is going to the salt flats and will get the hell driven out of it. hope I also did not piss anyone off here saying this, I dont post often but felt compelled to on this issue. I wish everyone the best success with their builds whether they are a budget dollar car or a big dollar car like the Rings or Alloway's ( by the way I have met the Ring brothers and talk to them now and then and think they are great guys)
I believe the car may stand up to the other Mustangs but that's not what your buddy said. He said it would basically blow them away. I've only met a few of the guys on this site and I don't necessarily let anything they say or do alter my decisions. I've seen Rings and Alloways cars for several years now. They have EARNED my respect. After I see your buddy's Mustang, maybe he will earn mine also. I hope if he sees my G-Force Cuda, Alan and I will earn his. A car is the sum of the parts..You have to have the right combination of the right pieces. Lots of guys spend a fortune on all the best parts and the finished product is not good. I like what I see so far except the cow catcher front and the tire wheel combo. But those are personal taste things..He might not like mine either. Good luck and we'll see you guys at SEMA and Goodguys Columbus 07.

[Damn True]

I agree with Bob on the wheel diameter. Too big.
As far as the front air dam / bumper thingy........it looks ok in profile and will probably look better with some kind of splitter. But the brake ducts are too big and the shape of the opening matches no other shape on the car. One of the things that sets the Ring Bro's Mustang & Bob's Cuda apart is the form language of the car. Those brake ducts look like they were lifted from an F360 or F430. The shape works on the Ferrari, but not so much on the Mustang. A good idea, and perhaps if you integrate that form language elsewhere in the car it might work. But you might seriously consider reworking that opening.

[ProdigyCustoms]

HotRods, Car is looking killer, please keep posting updates. I used to have a friend like your friend when I was in high school with a fast car. He would run his mouth so much and get me in so much ****........ most times I could back it up, but I ended up getting beat once in a while, which is fine. Until the general public takes the friends statements and makes them your own, then you look like you braged and got your a$$ handed to you.

Your friend is probably a great friend trying to help you out. Maybe though he is being a bit over zealous. There some badd ass cars at SEMA, but at least there is no judging, at least not with trophys anyway!

[Bill Howell]

Nice looking car. I am not crazy about the front bumper design. In person it may be different, but just does not fit in the drawings.
Ultimate Mustang, pretty bold statement, but who knows.

I agree with you Hotrod, show me one that is driven. The cars I rode with on the Power Tour got my respect. Anyone can lay down a pretty paint job, but show me the ones that are used, driven and enjoyed. Even if I don't care for the design, I gotta respect a car that gets driven. Speaking of mountain road twistys, you coming this way in Sept.? You should bring one of your cars or one of your Dads. Any one will be fine, I like em all.

[WEAVER]

Cool car. But its not the ultimate. I think it's imposible to be the ultimate. Sorry.
Correct, every couple a years some one comes out with a bad boy ride that tops the last one. I'm just glad they come out to work on and look at.(also to beg for rides) Style is a personal thing,thats what makes the world go around,one person likes chevys,one likes fords or mopars
all the money spent on a project wont mean crap with out style.I,ve seen some low budget builds that were just plain cool looking cars.
money spent in the right areas.

[Damn True]

This was once considered the "Ultimate" at one point too.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/07/J2000-1.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

This was once considered the "Ultimate" at one point too.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/07/J2000-1.jpg

Oh but that was a bad bitch. Do you have any pics of the body up? Youngsters maybe should see that. Yes, it is really out dated, but the craftsmanship has to be admired. Rick Dobbertin was a wild man, was willing to put EVERYTHING into his cars to win, and did. Truth be known he was stone broke after building the J2000, but it was unreal. Rick had built the Innovation twin turbo / roots blown Chevy 2 before the J2000. When he finished with cars he got funding to build a amphibious vehicle (something I know a thing or two about) and drove and swam around the world

[Damn True]

The only photo I can find is of the Revell model. Hardly as impressive as the real thing was.

You know all of the following, but the younger folks might not:

The car was nothing if not polarizing. People either thought is was the greatest thing ever, or thought it was the biggest steaming turd ever. It was really the impetus for events like Power Tour and RSE etc. which cropped up as opportunites for pro builders and regular guys alike to prove that their projects were actual cars. Not trailer queens.

[TonyL]

Dobberton's car, and Its detractors are actually responcible in one way or another for our movement. The first car to break the mold, and be a true driver, and in fact drive from one coast to the other on the first unoffical "power tour" would be this car.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/03/db_DSC00796-1.jpg
Scotts car was phenominal in its functionality, every bit as dobbertons car was in its impracticality.

Builders are always pushing the limits in one way or another and I welcome all of it. I look forward to see what we can learn from this mustang.

[the sander]

WOW!!!! never thought that bragging about someones work would create so many problems, sure I came off alittle "cocky"....sorry one too many pops last night when I wrote it. Yes my claim of "Ultimate" might be alittle bold but what is "Ultimate" to me might not be Ultimate to you, honestly I'm a CHEVY guy and for me to say that a Mustang is the Ultimate......well lets just say the little guy in my head just got smacked by the other guy.....:jump: :spank2:. Rod is a termendous builder, not saying he is the best no one can claim that. His work will speak for its self, you might not all argee with his style, but his cars are built to be driven and driven hard, trust me I know he scared the crap out of me... anyhow if you insist on me bringing out my "dads" car (94 corsica) I will but I'm sure he'll get alittle mad when it comes back on a tow truck, pretty sure we can find better toys to play with.....kinda glad it turned out this way gave me something to think about while I worked, hope that some of you were able to blow off some steam working on your own toys, cus isn't that what it is all about.

[hotrods]

Damn true I just wanted to say that the inlets have nothing to do with the brakes and are actually to feed the intakes of the turbos, the brakes are burried behind the 12.5 in wide front wheels. and yes there is an adjustable splitter going on the bottom of the lower nose.

[Bob Johnson]

that was when LSD was in favor....you want to hear something wild. I was at Barrett Jackson about 7or 8 years ago and a restaurant owner and his wife were getting a divorce and he had 10 or so cars there for sale. One of them was Pink Thunder or whatever it was called..Matt and Debbie Hayes had built it..had twin B&M blowers sitting backwards out in front of the small block Ford with Fuel Injection. It was Hot Rod car of the Year in like 89 or so. I paid 15K for it. it was still like new..couldn't have built it for $250K..It was a 88 pink T-Bird. Matt and Debbie built some super nice stuff..i had bought Rocky Robinson's 50 Kaiser at Auburn Indiana a few months earlier. had twin Paxtons on a big block and had a polished 316 stainless chassis..Both cars were fast and drove excellent...a friend of mine still has the Kaiser and gets it out every month or so.

[Bob Johnson]

I think I saw Scotts 55 at Columbus...someone told me he started the little red Henry J and at some point the owner finished it himself. It was obvious where the owner picked up the build..I love that little Henry..but 80K for a Henry w/o air..

[Bob Johnson]

Oh but that was a bad bitch. Do you have any pics of the body up? Youngsters maybe should see that. Yes, it is really out dated, but the craftsmanship has to be admired. Rick Dobbertin was a wild man, was willing to put EVERYTHING into his cars to win, and did. Truth be known he was stone broke after building the J2000, but it was unreal. Rick had built the Innovation twin turbo / roots blown Chevy 2 before the J2000. When he finished with cars he got funding to build a amphibious vehicle (something I know a thing or two about) and drove and swam around the world
Proof positive of why I say. If you're gonna spend money on a car, pick a car that will give a return on investment..most important thing in this game..start off with a car that has a demand for it. The dare to be different can prove costly.

[Bob Johnson]

WOW!!!! never thought that bragging about someones work would create so many problems, sure I came off alittle "cocky"....sorry one too many pops last night when I wrote it. Yes my claim of "Ultimate" might be alittle bold but what is "Ultimate" to me might not be Ultimate to you, honestly I'm a CHEVY guy and for me to say that a Mustang is the Ultimate......well lets just say the little guy in my head just got smacked by the other guy.....:jump: :spank2:. Rod is a termendous builder, not saying he is the best no one can claim that. His work will speak for its self, you might not all argee with his style, but his cars are built to be driven and driven hard, trust me I know he scared the crap out of me... anyhow if you insist on me bringing out my "dads" car (94 corsica) I will but I'm sure he'll get alittle mad when it comes back on a tow truck, pretty sure we can find better toys to play with.....kinda glad it turned out this way gave me something to think about while I worked, hope that some of you were able to blow off some steam working on your own toys, cus isn't that what it is all about.
no one on here took any offense..they just wanted to straighten you out a little. I'm sure you guys build nice stuff..but guess what..there's some real trick builders out here..go to some big Goodguys shows, SEMA, NSRA Nats, Cobo Hall etc and then you will understand where we're coming from...the water mark is pretty high..and will be going higher..takes a lot of money, time, skill, knowledge,experience, taste, and on and on..

[Sparky67]

Oh but that was a bad bitch. Do you have any pics of the body up? Youngsters maybe should see that. Yes, it is really out dated, but the craftsmanship has to be admired. Rick Dobbertin was a wild man, was willing to put EVERYTHING into his cars to win, and did. Truth be known he was stone broke after building the J2000, but it was unreal. Rick had built the Innovation twin turbo / roots blown Chevy 2 before the J2000. When he finished with cars he got funding to build a amphibious vehicle (something I know a thing or two about) and drove and swam around the world

Here is a link with the brochure on Rick Dobbertin's site. Definitely, a car before it's time.
http://www.dobbertinhydrocar.com/J2000.htm

Jeff

[Sparky67]

Dobberton's car, and Its detractors are actually responcible in one way or another for our movement. The first car to break the mold, and be a true driver, and in fact drive from one coast to the other on the first unoffical "power tour" would be this car.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/03/db_DSC00796-1.jpg
Scotts car was phenominal in its functionality, every bit as dobbertons car was in its impracticality.

Builders are always pushing the limits in one way or another and I welcome all of it. I look forward to see what we can learn from this mustang.

Actually, Scott Sullivan is local for me. Yes, he is building another car. 1961 Chevy Impala, typically it takes him around 5 years to build a car. My bodyman's son has worked with him on this 1968 Pontiac GTO, that I got to see. It has never been in a show or a magazine yet, but it is wild.

Jeff

[Damn True]

Damn true I just wanted to say that the inlets have nothing to do with the brakes and are actually to feed the intakes of the turbos, the brakes are burried behind the 12.5 in wide front wheels. and yes there is an adjustable splitter going on the bottom of the lower nose.

The brakes are behind the wheels huh? Now that's innovative.:rolleyes:
Regardless if you are using those gaping maws for the turbos or for brake ducts they are too big.

[TonyL]

Oh and for the record. I *love* the front end. thank gawd it's not just another shelby. For me, it's the best part on the car. Something that screams "Im different, take a closer look" Like the bulges on the top of the hood and fenders on bobs car. The flush mount glass is another super nice touch.

[Damn True]

Agreed, the flush glass is cool.

[Colin James]

Good grief, I cannot believe some of these comments. I am new to this site and its the first time I have posted. At the end of the day this hobby is about doing things your own way. If you want 12inch wide rims then good luck to you. If you you want a TV or computer, who cares. The guys building this car have a vision and are willing to put in the bucks and effort to get it done. We should not have a go at people just because they want things to look one way and you likes things to look another. Diversity is what makes this sport cool.
And as to the comment about building a call to make a return on the investment, if that was the case must builders including my self would never have started. Live and let live guys, we have enough people out in the big bad world who would like to see this sport go away, dont give them a helping hand.

[hotrods]

Damn true you know what the coolest thing is that you dont have to like it, and your opinion doesnt really matter its not like I am going to change anything on the car and I am not sure on here why everyone has to beek off about what they dont like. I could spend an hour a night on here typing in about everyones cars and saying things I dont like about it but what is the use, its not like you or any of them are going to change anything because I dont like it. On here is it I dont like this I dont like that. YOUR WHEELS ARE TO BIG AND YOUR TIRES ARE RUBBERBANDS that is really starting to get old, if anyone would actually LOOK at the car and the suspension that is in the car you would see why they are the size that they are. and as for you not being able to drive on them and not blow them. what do they make the tires for, CARS that are built by OEM manufactures so I take it that they are selling cars that cant be driven? The Vette has very low very wide wheels and tires and drives everywhere with out problems even in dirt WOW and on to job sites that the owner has, does wicked burnouts and goes perfectly around corners can you imagine that you can actually drive on them. So if I get only one thing across enough about the tire size please if the builder has put that combo on it has to be for some reason you guys are treating this like these builders are building DONK cars that are raised up and running 22 or 24 inch wheels if they fit in and under the car while you have still lowered it usually it is a good thing. well my one finger hurts so bad from typing this I had better go, longest thing I have ever typed......LOL

[Chad-1stGen]

Well some people will be glad to have gotten a reaction I guess. I just like reading about cool cars and cool ideas so keep the updates coming on Rosie.

[hotrods]

Thanks Chad we will do our best to keep up on the site.

[Bob Johnson]

Oh and for the record. I *love* the front end. thank gawd it's not just another shelby. For me, it's the best part on the car. Something that screams "Im different, take a closer look" Like the bulges on the top of the hood and fenders on bobs car. The flush mount glass is another super nice touch.
i just don't like thick looking cars..people who lower the rockers to get a lower look are adding to the thickness of the car. I don't like that look..The new Challenger is thick looking..i like the sleek look..but that's just me

[Bob Johnson]

Here is a link with the brochure on Rick Dobbertin's site. Definitely, a car before it's time.
http://www.dobbertinhydrocar.com/J2000.htm

Jeff
isn't it wild how you could get in numerous different magazines in the old days. Now that Primedia owns the bulk of the magazines, if you're in one, the rest don't generally want anything to do with the car. I know you can get in Chevy High Perf. if you were in PHR, but Hot Rod, Car Craft, etc if you were in PHR or vice versa, tough sailing.. You'd think since they are all in the same family it'd be easier than when Peterson and Mcmullen Argus (sp) owned the magazines..not so..

[hotrods]

Bob try building a Vette you have to fit into the style of the one Vette magazine and that is the only one you can get it into since the others dont show the others kinds of Vette, then the rest of the Chevy ones and Hotrod and PHR wont touch it because it was in the Vette one since they all are owned by the same group it is a frusterating thing they actually told me that only Vette guys want to look at Vette's and other chevy guys like Camaros and other chev models but dont want to see Vette's in their magazine. I just dont get it..............

[TonyHuntimer]

Hey HotRods,

Nice Cars! I saw the Vette last year at SEMA. Very nice.

It's good to see a departure from the norm.

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[TonyL]

i like the sleek look..but that's just me

I see what you mean. Part of me loves the european touring car look. big airdams, high spoilers huge rims etc. That's what I see in the this car, except in wheel choice.

[qb409]

I have not read the first post, but I read the rest. And what I can get out of it is that the guy had an opion and said it, which he is entitled too, he was cooky and put back in place of some other users, the post got deleted, but nobody got offended?? I think , from my point of wiew from reading the post there are some others that are coocky too. some of the post was unnessery I think

If I has a friend that building a car over here that I think will blow the rest away I must be allowed to say so and meen so.!!?
I guess what I am saying is that I do not understand what caused this fuss. Was it that it was felt like kind of an attack on US car builders? As for the "style " and wheels on the car I think thats kind of personal, its the owners taste. If he dont like it, he will change it. You dont paint your car red cause you neighbor think it would look best in red, when you like it yellow?
If I look at a car and dont like it I move on. no need to put it down cause somebody else enjoys it.

This will probably cause a fuzz to, but I say it anyway. I think Camaros are great looking cars, but there are other cars to build pro touring cars on. I think its getting a little boring that most of the post contains camaros. "Rosie the mustang" is breaking that up a little for me.
I too have to say that I too has a Chevy heart.

Well thats my point of wiew from over here in Norway. I hope my writing is accuratly and cleary enough as I clearly not write in this language every day.

[Bob Johnson]

Bob try building a Vette you have to fit into the style of the one Vette magazine and that is the only one you can get it into since the others dont show the others kinds of Vette, then the rest of the Chevy ones and Hotrod and PHR wont touch it because it was in the Vette one since they all are owned by the same group it is a frusterating thing they actually told me that only Vette guys want to look at Vette's and other chevy guys like Camaros and other chev models but dont want to see Vette's in their magazine. I just dont get it..............
try to get a 69 Camaro in a magazine. Try getting them to shoot a black car. A 69 Camaro is the most popular muscle car bar none. But so many people scream that they don't want to see anymore 69 Camaros, the magazine guys don't like to shoot them. They don't take into consideration that a ton of people want to see them..we just don't piss and moan so they don't see our side. The same thing holds tru for 40 Fords..especially black ones. Hunkins was amazed when there was an overwhelming vote to put my 69 Black Camaro on the cover of PHR. I just don't believe there is a better looking color than black. I think it looks great on the cover of a magazine..but what the hell do I know..Vettes are cool. The black 62 at Columbus should have been in the Street Machine Finals IMHO. Anyone who doesn't like Vettes.. I just don't know what to think about them..I also love Mustangs..especially 65 thru 70. I've got a 66 GT350 that I plan on doing one of these days..not to the level you are doing yours, but my plans get changed sometimes.

[Bill Howell]

i just don't like thick looking cars..people who lower the rockers to get a lower look are adding to the thickness of the car. I don't like that look..The new Challenger is thick looking..i like the sleek look..but that's just me

Yeah, but what do you know about cars anyway? I mean, heck, do you have any back ground that would qualify you to have an opinion?:spank2:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Try getting them to shoot a black car.

. Hunkins was amazed when there was an overwhelming vote to put my 69 Black Camaro on the cover of PHR. I just don't believe there is a better looking color than black. I think it looks great on the cover of a magazine..but what the hell do I know..

Yeah, before we even did the photo shoot we were told there is a unwritten no black on covers policy, but we hope to break that. We took a bunch of pictures down into the red interior in hopes of getting a cover quality shot. Still waiting to hear.

[yellowrallys]

Yeah, before we even did the photo shoot we were told there is a unwritten no black on covers policy, but we hope to break that. We took a bunch of pictures down into the red interior in hopes of getting a cover quality shot. Still waiting to hear.

Ain't nothing like a little red mixed in with yer black on them Camaros (or a 41 Willys).
I didn't make the cover, but still managed a pretty neat feature, plus a track shot with Prodigy and a few others.

[WEAVER]

isn't it wild how you could get in numerous different magazines in the old days. Now that Primedia owns the bulk of the magazines, if you're in one, the rest don't generally want anything to do with the car. I know you can get in Chevy High Perf. if you were in PHR, but Hot Rod, Car Craft, etc if you were in PHR or vice versa, tough sailing.. You'd think since they are all in the same family it'd be easier than when Peterson and Mcmullen Argus (sp) owned the magazines..not so..
Here's one for ya, STREET RODDER wont shoot this years riddler car 35 ford because it is on cover of STREET ROD BUILDER, they flat out told us they wont shoot it because of that reason.

[WEAVER]

I have seen a lot of photo shoots on my customers cars, black cars can be shot and look awsum.I have watched Scott Killeen and Josh Mishler
shoot black cars and they have been on covers(black 60 vette at columbus this year) you just need a good photographer.And there is only certain times of light to make it work.Josh waits till the sun is almost all the way down.

[Bob Johnson]

Yeah, but what do you know about cars anyway? I mean, heck, do you have any back ground that would qualify you to have an opinion?:spank2:
I run around with you every chance I get..doesn't that count for something

[Bob Johnson]

Here's one for ya, STREET RODDER wont shoot this years riddler car 35 ford because it is on cover of STREET ROD BUILDER, they flat out told us they wont shoot it because of that reason.
Street Rodder is showing you and everyone, we're number one..if you don't come here first, you don't come at all..if we all insisted on virgins, how many of us would be married..except Billy Howells WIFE..note I said Wife..that movie 40 year old virgin..thought it was about Bill..

[teamplex65]

Car looks great, keep up the good work guys. Stick around and keep posting. Offer up a few comments on some other threads and we will all be laughing about this in a few months.

I cant wait to see the finished product. What size of tires are they, if you can say.

[rob07002]

It looks to be a real bad a$$ for sure. But it takes more then just a few renderings and some build pics to claim to be the "Ultimate Muscle Car".

If you can walk the walk then gloat away!

[SN65]

Back to the car....

I like a lot of what I see, Excellent engineering and fabrication.

While I do tend to agree with some of the styling comments in regard to the modified shelby lower valance, tires, ground effects, etc.... I will reserve my citique once I see how the whole project comes together at the end.

What kind of power will you generate? What are the performance goals gor the car? Where will you be at SEMA?

As far as SEMA goes, it looks like we will be there with the SN65. Magnaflow has asked us to display at their booth. They are planning to sandwich the SN65 between two Foose stangs.

I am thrilled at being asked to come to SEMA. I am sure that you are also. I look forward to meeting you there. I am sure that Bob J will come by, look at your car and give you his honest opinion.

Anyway... Great looking car. Cant wait to see it in person.

[MarkM66]

Car has already been discussed,

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15916&highlight=230

If you're gonna claim it'll run 230, gotta then prove it. :3gears:

Good luck against Alloway and the Ring Bros. Looking forward to seeing that at Columbus next year.

[ironworks]

Alloway's challenger was on the cover of PHR.

Rodger

[ProdigyCustoms]

What booth is Roosie going to be in?

[SN65]

230 MPH. Holly Crap Batman....

My next question is in regard to aerodynamics.

Where does all the air entering through the grill and valance go???

I notice you are running a Shelby style hood. Stock fenders and a belly pan. I have been looking over all your photos and I do not see any provisions for venting off any of the air that enters through all the openings in the front end. Lots of openings for the air to go in, but nowhere for it to exit.

If I have my dynamics correct, you need just as much goesout capacity as you have for the goesin. If you restrict the flow on the exit side of things, you will not flow nearly as much air as you have openings for.

Also, if you cannot evacuate all that air easily, the built up pressure in front of the car will form an air dam that will tend to lift the front of the car at high speed. A lot of the early stangs I have seen built for high speed passes actually reduce the amount of air entering from the front in an attempt to make them punch through the air more effeciently.

[hotrods]

hey Guys thanks for the good comments and your oppinions, I hope I dont miss anything that you guys asked but if I do i am sorry. The car has 305/25-19 fronts and 345/25-20 rears, I do look forward to seeing and meeting everyone in Vegas this year aswell, no one ever claimed it was the ultimate muscle car it was only said that it will be the ultimate first Generation mustang. But according to HotRod the ultimate mustang is the 07 shellby at least that is what the said on the cover. we have enough motor and turbo to make as much HP as we want. ( turbos will make 1800 hp so the door is wide open) we intend to run the car at the 1100 hp level. feel anymore is just bragging rights and will never be harnessed anyways. we hope we have enough time to pre prove the car before Vegas but with suppliers holding us up it is getting pretty tough. I feel that the car has everything that is needed to go 230 or maybe faster but time will tell. we have gone 170 MPH in the Vette ( but not somewhere you would actually want to go 170 so that is as far as we have pushed that car so far. we will bring it when we test the mustang and see just how fast it will go but something about hitting 200 in a 63 Vette body with no top just doesnt seem the smartest thing to try when I think about it. the car had more gear and more pedal so I dont think it would be much of a problem hitting it. Well I have to get back to work or this thing will never get done, everyone have a great day.

[hotrods]

SN65 all the air is controlled threw the openings and is vented out the hood not making it into the engine compartment to take car of this problem, the scoops in the lower valance lead to sealed areas with the filters in it to feed the motor once they take what they need no more air will enter and the air pressure will will build the air will pass around the front as if they were not there. There is a splitter that goes on the bottom of the valance that is flat and goes to the front of the wheel opening aswell, there is nothing at all under the car just the belly pan so the air should be well controlled. now I really am late......LOL

[F70t/a]

Hotrods,


Any pics on how the frame is mounted to the body? Love the Fab pics man!! keep up the good work:kewlpics:

[teamplex65]

I like how the thread has turned to complimenting and asking questions. Keep up the good work hotrod, and if your reading this you should be out working on the car right now, no breaks till SEMA

[Colin James]

Hotrod, the car is looking cool and the fabrication seems to be top notch. But be carefull when you start talking about top speeds. As an English guy who has had the pleasure of running at over 190MPH on the German motoways I am well versed in what is needed to run at these numbers and horsepower is only one part of the equation. Air management is major factor as you well know. The amount of drag your car is likely to create is going cause all sorts of issues even down to the fact that you could have yours windows sucked out due to a air pressure. I dont know how practical it would be but it might be a good idea to put your car in a wind tunnel before attempting any top speed runs, this might seem excessive but it would be better to find out then rather that be in the car if it suddenly decides to go airborn at 200 MPH+. Having seen this happen I would not recommend it.
Good luck with the build and I look forward to seeing the finished car

[Bob Johnson]

Hotrod, the car is looking cool and the fabrication seems to be top notch. But be carefull when you start talking about top speeds. As an English guy who has had the pleasure of running at over 190MPH on the German motoways I am well versed in what is needed to run at these numbers and horsepower is only one part of the equation. Air management is major factor as you well know. The amount of drag your car is likely to create is going cause all sorts of issues even down to the fact that you could have yours windows sucked out due to a air pressure. I dont know how practical it would be but it might be a good idea to put your car in a wind tunnel before attempting any top speed runs, this might seem excessive but it would be better to find out then rather that be in the car if it suddenly decides to go airborn at 200 MPH+. Having seen this happen I would not recommend it.
Good luck with the build and I look forward to seeing the finished car
They won't let the car run at Bonneville, Maxton etc w/o something to secure the windows and glass..We built special 1 pc. doorpanels/window for the Cuda..Also roof rails and pieces to secure the windscreen and rear glass..All those wings, scoops, spoilers don't always work...look at the Lambo Countach..one of the nastiest cd's on earth..

[Bob Johnson]

Yeah, before we even did the photo shoot we were told there is a unwritten no black on covers policy, but we hope to break that. We took a bunch of pictures down into the red interior in hopes of getting a cover quality shot. Still waiting to hear.
double negative in their eyes..69 Camaro and black to boot..

[Bob Johnson]

Alloway's challenger was on the cover of PHR.

Rodger
It's weird how everyone calls it Alloways Challenger...I made reference to this phenomenon a while ago. Someone had made reference of car owners hogging the limelite..manytimes the builder actually gets credit for owning the car..

[preston]

>We built special 1 pc. doorpanels/window for the Cuda.

I'm familiar with windshield clips and backglass retaining straps but have never really ehard about securing the side windows.
Can you elaborate what and why you did something special with the side windows ? Are your side windows all custom built btw ? I'm curious what something like that costs.

I'm assuming they run top speed stuff with the windows up.

They always have us run the open track events with windows down, and I'm always thinking about securing the rear window. Seems like a lot of pressure. Currently running a normal old style rubber seal myself, hasn't popped out yet LOL but I only go about 145mph right now on our tracks.

[bigkaboose]

Sorry the sander this site was posted already. The vette is really cool but putting a bunch of electronics in a muscle car is a waste. Pulling over an playing video games in the trunk is for pimp my ride.

[SN65]

SNIP...

...look at the Lambo Countach..one of the nastiest cd's on earth..
Hi Bob,

It must be all this norther exposure. What the heck does a compact disk have to do with anything???

[Steve1968LS2]

double negative in their eyes..69 Camaro and black to boot..

psst.. it's not a '69.. lol

Actually we have put black cars on the cover, it just takes more work :)

[Steve1968LS2]

It's weird how everyone calls it Alloways Challenger...I made reference to this phenomenon a while ago. Someone had made reference of car owners hogging the limelite..manytimes the builder actually gets credit for owning the car..

And you were a genious in hiring a builder named Johnson.. so when someone says "Johnson's 'Cuda" you both win :)

[SN65]

Hotrod, the car is looking cool and the fabrication seems to be top notch. But be carefull when you start talking about top speeds. As an English guy who has had the pleasure of running at over 190MPH on the German motoways I am well versed in what is needed to run at these numbers and horsepower is only one part of the equation.

SNIP...
Breaking the 200MPH barrier with one of these early mustangs is very difficult. Kind of like pushing a brick headlong into a huricane.

I may be wrong, but I have only heard of one 65/66 joining the 200 club. I think that he was running twin turbos, but the car was also slammed to the ground with a custom front air dam and the hood ran halfway up the windshield and he added a couple of directional veins on the roof....

Anyway... The SN65 is mechanically "capable" of 220 mph @ 6500 RPM. Could it actually break the 200 MPH barrier??? Maybe yes, but probably no. The car was not built to do over 200 MPH. Even if we modified the front end, there are many other things to consider.

Double T is building a Cuda to break the 200 plus barrier and, with all the modifications, it doesn't even look like a Cuda anymore.

Good luck and hope that you make it. I would love to see another Stang in the 200 MPH club.

[SN65]

Also, as Bob said, just because you put a "vent" in a car, does not meen that the air will actually flow in the direction you desire.

For example....

The hood vents on the 03-04 Cobra work as a heat extractor because the hood contours are subtle and the windshield is raked back. If there is a rise behind the hood vent, like the bulge for a cowl hood, you may be creating a high pressure area. The air may flow out of it, or it may actually become an air intake.

Also, Shelby put the air extractors in the fenders of his 427 Cobra, but they were not located properly and they did not actually "extract" any air from the fenders or engine bay.

Air will flow in the path of least resistance. Sometimes finding that path is more difficult than it seams.

[Stu Seitz]

Seems like a cool car but with all the talk of 200+ mph,1800hp and your obvious fab skills, why did you choose to use MII suspension and a jag rear end?

[Colin James]

As Bob said, the aerodynamics of the Mustang are bad. If you look at production cars capable of going 200 MPH they all have one thing in common, the ability to manage airflow. Very few cars can produce a positive downforce, most cars act like wings at speed and want to take off. Power will only get you so far. Most production cars able to go over 200 have only 500hp - 600hp. And the ones capable of going over 220MPH have about 750 to 1000HP in the Bugatti case, they get around the relative lack of power by being able to cheat the wind.
What could happen with your car is that the wind resistance could overcome the cars traction and in theory with so much power you could start to get wheel spin at close to or just over 200 mph. Now think about that one

[hotrods]

Collin I am aware off all the things that everyone is saying and have thought threw all these things. Pretty sure we have most of them covered. The car can not spin the tires it will pull power out before that happens. The front end is not MII it is Art Morrisons own zero bump steer front IFS. we are going for high G numbers with the car that is why we went with the CWS Independent rear end. we can get the belly pan 3 inches off the ground if we really need to, and with an adjustable splitter and with all the airflow controlled we are pretty sure the car will make good air. We should be able to hit 200 mph in less than a half a mile with the power, traction control and the footprint of the car. Well I really hope we get all the pieces we are waiting for from suppliers in time so we can test the car before SEMA would like to bring the car there with 200 mph already under its credits, If we cant find a track close enough I guess a radar ticket should be proof enough.

[Bob Johnson]

Collin I am aware off all the things that everyone is saying and have thought threw all these things. Pretty sure we have most of them covered. The car can not spin the tires it will pull power out before that happens. The front end is not MII it is Art Morrisons own zero bump steer front IFS. we are going for high G numbers with the car that is why we went with the CWS Independent rear end. we can get the belly pan 3 inches off the ground if we really need to, and with an adjustable splitter and with all the airflow controlled we are pretty sure the car will make good air. We should be able to hit 200 mph in less than a half a mile with the power, traction control and the footprint of the car. Well I really hope we get all the pieces we are waiting for from suppliers in time so we can test the car before SEMA would like to bring the car there with 200 mph already under its credits, If we cant find a track close enough I guess a radar ticket should be proof enough.
You're going to have to have a real good surface to hit 200 in 1/2 mile. Like a 1 mile drag strip. I don't think anything ever hit close to 200 in 1/2 of the Maxton Mile..Bad ol twin turbo Viper hit like 219 in the mile and that's fast. All I can say is things just don't happen as quickly as we think they will..I had thought I would have accomplished a lot more of the performance goals we had set but there's always something interfering with everyones schedule, or whatever. Ambitious undertaking....good luck

[Bob Johnson]

Breaking the 200MPH barrier with one of these early mustangs is very difficult. Kind of like pushing a brick headlong into a huricane.

I may be wrong, but I have only heard of one 65/66 joining the 200 club. I think that he was running twin turbos, but the car was also slammed to the ground with a custom front air dam and the hood ran halfway up the windshield and he added a couple of directional veins on the roof....

Anyway... The SN65 is mechanically "capable" of 220 mph @ 6500 RPM. Could it actually break the 200 MPH barrier??? Maybe yes, but probably no. The car was not built to do over 200 MPH. Even if we modified the front end, there are many other things to consider.

Double T is building a Cuda to break the 200 plus barrier and, with all the modifications, it doesn't even look like a Cuda anymore.

Good luck and hope that you make it. I would love to see another Stang in the 200 MPH club.
John Mafucci drove his 03 Mustang to Bonneville 3 or so years ago. They wouldn't let him run but 180 with the cast wheels. he ran 179 or so. then drove it home..came back the next year with a whipple twin screw supercharger and Metco Pulley System, and some Forged BBS wheels and ran over 200 without even getting his computer set up for the Bonneville Altitude etc. He could have run faster but he planned to come back and break it again. He sold the car before then..He was the guy at Year One with the 55 Ford F1 with the 03 Cobra driveline in his truck. Our other buddy Rabbit Bartils has run about 230 with his 29 Brookville Roadster with the 03 Cobra engine and trans. he's going to put a Pro Charger on it and plans to run 240 or better..I believe he will do it. Both set records at Bonneville which I think still stand. Rabbit was the points champ at Maxton last year. He has yet to break 200 up there..close but no cigar..

[ProdigyCustoms]

Anyway... The SN65 is mechanically "capable" of 220 mph @ 6500 RPM. Could it actually break the 200 MPH barrier??? Maybe yes, but probably no. The car was not built to do over 200 MPH. Even if we modified the front end, there are many other things to consider.

.

Bob, have you done a 200MPH dyno run yet? What was your MPH on your dyno testing?

[SN65]

Bob, have you done a 200MPH dyno run yet? What was your MPH on your dyno testing?
As far as this Bob (with so many Bob's on the board it is hard to tell which one you are talking to) is concerned, no, we haven't.

We had the car at about 135 to 140 in 4th. So, if you do the math, that puts us at about 168 to 175 in 5th and 214 to 222 in 6th.

I would like to get the SN65 on a Mustang dyno so that we can do a simulated 1/4 mile and also see what the top end really is.

The real 1/4 mile times and the real top end would be somewhat less due to the aerodynamica of the brick we are pushing down the track.

Speeking of 200 MPH, has anyone come close to the 0 to 200 to 0 in a standing mile yet. Last I heard no one has done it yet.

[ProdigyCustoms]

It won't pull 5th, or 6th. you would need double the horsepower to do that. At your weight, to run 200MPH will take at least 800HP. That's why I asked.

[SN65]

It won't pull 5th, or 6th. you would need double the horsepower to do that. At your weight, to run 200MPH will take at least 800HP. That's why I asked.
I don't understand. Why won't it "pull" 5th or 6th. The "stock" Cobra had a top speed of 162 in 5th gear at 365 RWHP.

[ProdigyCustoms]

You do not have enough HP to pull 5th or 6th all the way, in fact, it will most likely drop some MPH when you go to 6th because of not enough HP. You need 800HP at 3500LBS to run 200MPH. It is simple math. Just look at a Nextel Cup Car.

The Mule at around 1000HP (right Charlie?) did a 200MPH dyno run.

[Stu Seitz]

The front end is not MII it is Art Morrisons own zero bump steer front IFS.

I don't mean to bust your balls but an Art Morrison zero bump steer front IFS, is a MII suspension; call them, I did. I'm not trying to criticize you, as it it obivouse that you know more about building cars then me, I guess I should have been more direct in my first question. Did you choose a MII suspension because of packaging concerns (room for the turbos), because of time constraints (not being able to design a one off suspension because of the need to make it to SEMA) or was it somthing else?


I Googled CWS Independent rear end/suspensions, but couldn't find anything as I do not know what CWS stands for. So I was not able to find any tech so please correct me if I am wrong.


we are going for high G numbers with the car that is why we went with the CWS Independent rear end.

I Assume that "high G numbers" means both lateral and strait line acceleration and I have no doubt that you will achieve "high G numbers" as you have "1800hp and a very large foot print" and that is exaclty what I would be concerned about, in regards to a Jag IRS, it does not have upper control arms.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/07/jag-1.jpg

Now agian, please correct me if I'm wrong, but by not having upper control arms that would mean that the half shaft acts as the upper control arm and the stress of suspension articulation (camber gain) and the stress of acceleration would all be on that one u-joint. It is obviouse to assume that those u-joints are of the best quality, but your statments "1800hp and a very large foot print", "200+ mph" and what looks to be like a very heavy car would, at least for me, cast a shadow of doubt on that dated IRS. Does this beefed up IRS some how displace the load off of the u-joints? .

[Bob Johnson]

>We built special 1 pc. doorpanels/window for the Cuda.

I'm familiar with windshield clips and backglass retaining straps but have never really ehard about securing the side windows.
Can you elaborate what and why you did something special with the side windows ? Are your side windows all custom built btw ? I'm curious what something like that costs.

I'm assuming they run top speed stuff with the windows up.

They always have us run the open track events with windows down, and I'm always thinking about securing the rear window. Seems like a lot of pressure. Currently running a normal old style rubber seal myself, hasn't popped out yet LOL but I only go about 145mph right now on our tracks.
Alan made the aluminum door panels and built a metal frame to secure the Lexan side glass..all one piece. At speed the glass will just try and suck out of the car..They won't let you run over I think 175 w/o it. I don't know how much time he spent on them. We have a whole race set up for the Cuda. Seat, supplemental roll cage, chute, lexan cover for grill and headlights and on and on..

[Bob Johnson]

Hi Bob,

It must be all this norther exposure. What the heck does a compact disk have to do with anything???
drag coefficient. Kinda like when you cross dress and your evening gown is dragging the ground behind you and The Windy City is whipping it all around while you tip toeing thru the tulips..lol

[Bob Johnson]

Bob, have you done a 200MPH dyno run yet? What was your MPH on your dyno testing?
wasn't even concerned with the MPH. Alan had it to 180 or so in 5th at the Airport at Gadsden..still pulling like a train..and stable as a rock..with a 20 mph side wind

[Bob Johnson]

As far as this Bob (with so many Bob's on the board it is hard to tell which one you are talking to) is concerned, no, we haven't.

We had the car at about 135 to 140 in 4th. So, if you do the math, that puts us at about 168 to 175 in 5th and 214 to 222 in 6th.

I would like to get the SN65 on a Mustang dyno so that we can do a simulated 1/4 mile and also see what the top end really is.

The real 1/4 mile times and the real top end would be somewhat less due to the aerodynamica of the brick we are pushing down the track.

Speeking of 200 MPH, has anyone come close to the 0 to 200 to 0 in a standing mile yet. Last I heard no one has done it yet.
they're getting high 180's..go to the Silver State web site

[Bob Johnson]

Bob, have you done a 200MPH dyno run yet? What was your MPH on your dyno testing?
I don't know what that really would tell me. 200mph on a dyno and 200 in the real world? I don't like the looks of that thing hitting 7500 in 4th for a few seconds, much less having to shift it twice more and going that much faster. I could see that Cuda launching off there and running thru the wall..

[Charley Lillard]

Yes the Mule did the 200 mph dyno run with the aero program of a 73 Nova becaue the program did not go back to 69. I think Kurt said about 750rwhp was needed to go 200. Somewhere around here is the video.

[Tig Man]

Looks HEAVY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does it weigh??

[Tig Man]

Current Cup cars are around 440-460 restrictor plate at the flywheel, but the areo numbers are not obtainable with street cars!! They are super slick aero wise!

[SN65]

This has become one of my favorite threads. Not only because of the interesting comments, but more so because it shows what can and does happen when you open all the details of your project to public scrutiny.

When you show everybody every aspect of what you are doing, you are in effect asking for people’s opinion. When you do that you get the good along with the bad.

Now, some of you may think that the “good” is in reference to the “wow, cool car” comments and the “bad” are the “Why did you do *&#$” kind of comments. But no… it is the other way around. I would trade all the “wow, cool car” comments for one thoughtful criticism. For example, the comments Stuart made in regard to the front and rear suspensions are very insightful. While they may not be what Hotrods wants to hear does not make them any less valid. But, before taking what looks to be a great custom stang out and pushing it to the limit, you really have to give these things consideration. Serious consideration.

Also, at this point, it is kind of late for any of this input to help. All the work is already done.

That being the case, I will add my critique in regard to the cage design. While it may not help on this project, it may give you a few things to think about on your next. First off, without knowing the actuall tube diameter and wall thickness it appears fairly stout, but I see no triangulation. When you apply a twisting load to the chassis (let’s say during the application of 1,800 HP and God knows how much torque) you have nothing to keep the entire structure from twisting. Most cages of this type have at least some type of cross bracing in the cowl and rear roll bar areas as a minimum. Also, you have brought the main structure of the upper cage down to four kickers that extend out about a foot or so from the side of the frame rails. Another issue is that your major rear braces (the one that runs from the very end of the rear frame rail to the top of the cage) meets the cage at an unsupported point. You have four tubes running through the roof structure and this brace falls right in between all of them. You are transmitting the load to the weakest point of the cage. At least in the front you did add a kicker from the main tube to the outside of the cage.

Do not take any of these comments in a negative way. They are not made in an attempt to diminish what you have done in any way. I am just commenting on what I see. And from what I see, it looks like it will be a killer car when complete.

I know!!! Maybe we can schedule some track time after SEMA and we can get Rossie, the G-force Cuda, Booby Alloway’s Stang, the Ring Brothers newest creation and the SN65 out on a track and see how they all shake out. Or better yet, we could do it before SEMA. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Lets put all the cars through their paces before the big show. Now that sounds like a good time. :-)

[SN65]

I don't know what that really would tell me. 200mph on a dyno and 200 in the real world? I don't like the looks of that thing hitting 7500 in 4th for a few seconds, much less having to shift it twice more and going that much faster. I could see that Cuda launching off there and running thru the wall..
Hi Bob,

I may be wrong, but I think that the Dyno program adds CD as you go faster and faster. If the program is correct, it should give you an idea as to how fast your car will go in real world situations.

[Bob Johnson]

Hi Bob,

I may be wrong, but I think that the Dyno program adds CD as you go faster and faster. If the program is correct, it should give you an idea as to how fast your car will go in real world situations.
If you really knew what your CD was thru the range to 200mph

[SN65]

True. I do believe that they have standard profiles for a bunch of different cars. Yours would be run with the standard Cuda profile, or similar car. That way, your real world numbers should actually be better. That is if all the Aero modifications work as designed.

OBTW, I have finally got my blood sugar levels under control. :-)

[hotrods]

WOW , sn65 would you like a job as I can see we know nothing up here in our IGLOO building cars I hate having to take the skis off the front of them when we cross the border anyways, so maybe i should go back to building dog sleds. what I love is the fact that everyone looks at the car and decides for themselves what it is that we have planned to do or done and why it is that we did it in a certian way and seem to think that their idea of what would work or what wont work seemes to be better than our idea. there just might be a reason why things are done in a certian way that maybe you might not have thought of........ building a car to do alot of different things is a bunch of compromises, you need to make it work for all things not just have one part of it work to its 100% capabilities. There still might be more pieces going into the car since it is not finnished yet. I am just curious about all of this talk about cars being able to go 200 mph or better and how much power etc etc etc seem to me a stock bodied car has gone 220 mph and over. It also has gone over 200 mph for more than 25 minutes straight so it is not impossible, we have done 170 mph on a local hiway here in the Vette and that is with only 700 hp and still was pulling hard and could have shifted another gear. Track time in Vegas sounds like alot of fun to me!!!!!!!!!! we were actually doing donuts and burn outs in the Vette in SEMA parking lot before we took the car into the building. I hope everyone gets the humour in this and I am not pissed at anyone in anyway I have my opinions and everyone is allowed to have their opinions, build them how you want and I am going to build them how I want nothing anyone says will change that.

[Bob Johnson]

True. I do believe that they have standard profiles for a bunch of different cars. Yours would be run with the standard Cuda profile, or similar car. That way, your real world numbers should actually be better. That is if all the Aero modifications work as designed.

OBTW, I have finally got my blood sugar levels under control. :-)
You were wound tighter than a clock spring. I could make millions if I could bottle your adrenaline and make energy drinks..lol..you had a good time and it was fun watching you in action..

[BRIAN]

HOTRODS your car is killer and is built to the specs that you feel will work. I guess when somebody throws out a challenge or states there car will do this or that it ruffles some feathers.

This web site is a wealth of info but I can also see how all the so called better ideas being thrown at you can get aggravating. To me it is actually agood thing because you are debating actual performance and not chrome undercarriages.


Hey, build it your way and meet your goal. Any challengers should show up at the same testing and then we will see who has the better designs.


I always wondered if the guys who truly know what they are doing didn't come on so hard and actually contacted a Co or builder to make their product better they would both be better off financially. If somebody see a problem and knows a way of correcting it I would think a serious CO or Builder would gladly pay for that info. Just a thought.


By the way I hat ethe front air ducts and I have no idea how to make then look better. Only kidding and can't wait to see the finished project.

Hey, Maybe a Pro Touring Super Car shootout. Johnson's Cuda, Mule, Hotrods, and?????

[Bob Johnson]

I'll, tell you one thing. When I build another car, i will post up my plans and welcome all input.. criticism and approval..It never hurts to get educated input. My Mustang will be the next car I do. I plan on doing it the way Doan Spencer was going to do it. I want everyne to look at it and see what they think. Lots of these guys have a wealth of knowledge..It's free and I'm gonna tap it..

[datsbad]

SN65 , I personally have a 2003 cobra with over 500 to the tires. I was wondering why you think your car would be any better than a fuly sorted out 2003 cobra with everything possible on it ?

Mine (03 cobra)has about it all and I tell you my Camaro would literally kill it in evey aspect .I dont see why your car would fall in same categeory with the cuda, alloways car, mule, etc... Please do not take offense to this question, just curious.

HOTRODS, THAT MUSTANG IS BADASS, nuff said !!!!!!!!!
You got my approval

[Bob Johnson]

SN65 Bob doesn't mean any harm..that blood sugar just got out of whack momentarily...If you don't agree with his opinion, fire back at him..I've seen very few guys as passionate as he is about his car..

[hotrods]

Dats you crack me up.......LOL thanks and I have said it before thats a bad ass car you got there

[Damn True]

WOW , sn65 would you like a job as I can see we know nothing up here in our IGLOO building cars I hate having to take the skis off the front of them when we cross the border anyways, so maybe i should go back to building dog sleds. what I love is the fact that everyone looks at the car and decides for themselves what it is that we have planned to do or done and why it is that we did it in a certian way and seem to think that their idea of what would work or what wont work seemes to be better than our idea. there just might be a reason why things are done in a certian way that maybe you might not have thought of........ building a car to do alot of different things is a bunch of compromises, you need to make it work for all things not just have one part of it work to its 100% capabilities. There still might be more pieces going into the car since it is not finnished yet. I am just curious about all of this talk about cars being able to go 200 mph or better and how much power etc etc etc seem to me a stock bodied car has gone 220 mph and over. It also has gone over 200 mph for more than 25 minutes straight so it is not impossible, we have done 170 mph on a local hiway here in the Vette and that is with only 700 hp and still was pulling hard and could have shifted another gear. Track time in Vegas sounds like alot of fun to me!!!!!!!!!! we were actually doing donuts and burn outs in the Vette in SEMA parking lot before we took the car into the building. I hope everyone gets the humour in this and I am not pissed at anyone in anyway I have my opinions and everyone is allowed to have their opinions, build them how you want and I am going to build them how I want nothing anyone says will change that.

Nobody is saying that it's impossible. They are saying it's improbable. The difference between the two is a deep understanding of what it takes to make the jump from 170mph (really no big deal) to 200+ (a very big deal) and a track record of doing so.

I suggest you go run the number.

It'll be freakin rad if you are able to do it. Let us know how it goes.

[Bob Johnson]

running 200 is no big deal...running 200 in less than 1/2 mile on some less than ideal surface..now that's hard to do..I truly believe he'll have no problem running 200. Like a fuel dragster will run 265 plus in 1/8..that last half goes real quick...

[WEAVER]

I'll, tell you one thing. When I build another car, i will post up my plans and welcome all input.. criticism and approval..It never hurts to get educated input. My Mustang will be the next car I do. I plan on doing it the way Doan Spencer was going to do it. I want everyne to look at it and see what they think. Lots of these guys have a wealth of knowledge..It's free and I'm gonna tap it..Doan Spencer had some good ideas,cool looks.You may have to tell some of the boys here who he was.

[Bob Johnson]

Doan Spencer had some good ideas,cool looks.You may have to tell some of the boys here who he was.
If you've ever seen his 32 Hi Boy at The Peterson Museum..or saw it at Pebble Beach..Bruce Meyer paid $500K for it as the rumor goes..first hot rod to ever be at Pebble Beach..Got classic looks..be cool if it was built last month..built some cool T-Birds..made Y block Fords boogie, and that ain't easy to do. cool road racing stuff.. ran small block Fords too..ran Sumbeam Tigers

[Doug Cooper]

Sell me that Doan Spencer stuff with that Nomand!

P.S. look at the last post on your toilet ride! Doug

[Bob Johnson]

Nomand? It's not a nomad it's a handyman wagon with Bel Air Trim.... I've been spelling Doane's name wrong add an E to Doan..Doane

[Doug Cooper]

Nomand? It's not a nomad it's a handyman wagon with Bel Air Trim.... I've been spelling Doane's name wrong add an E to Doan..Doane

That's good you didn't say No. So whats it gonna cost?

[SN65]

SN65 , I personally have a 2003 cobra with over 500 to the tires. I was wondering why you think your car would be any better than a fuly sorted out 2003 cobra with everything possible on it ?

Mine (03 cobra)has about it all and I tell you my Camaro would literally kill it in evey aspect .I dont see why your car would fall in same categeory with the cuda, alloways car, mule, etc... Please do not take offense to this question, just curious.

Well, where do I start... :-)

First, the premise of the SN65 project was to build a car that looked like it could have rolled off a Ford assembly line. I believe that we succeeded at that point. In fact, if we do not point out all of the modifications, people have no idea as to what we did. And for those out there who think it is easier to make a project look factory than it is to make it look custom, I suggest you give it a shot. :-)

We paid a lot of attention to improving the design of the unibody structure. We did not just weld the two sheet metal structures together and call it a day. Added to the Cobra/Mustang unibody are structural tube reinforcements to the rockers, cowl, firewall, front strut towers, rear suspension attachment points, etc... Also, we added heavy gage sheet metal reinforcements to the frame rails, cowl and "B" pillar areas. The entire package is designed to transfer all loads from the front suspension mounting points, through the shock towers and frame rails, into the cowl area, up through the "A" pillars to the roof and down to the rockers. The same is true of the rear suspension. All loads are transferred to the rockers and "B" pillars. All of these structural modifications and we still maintained all the unibody crumple zones. We even tied the collapsible frame rail extensions into the structure of the front bumpers.

Also, our wheelbase is 7" longer than a stock Cobra. Our shock towers are between the #1 and 2 cylinder where yours are between the #3 and 4. Not only did we relocate the center of gravity backwards (the car is not as nose heavy) but we also relocated the center of gravity lower. We added about 170 Lbs of steel to the car (in the rockers and suspension reinforcements) and yet the car weighs in at about 100 to 150 Lbs LESS than your 03. All the weight we removed was high in relation to the roll center and all the weight we added was low.

So, even if you were able to cage your 03 Cobra chassis to get the same performance as the SN65's chassis, your Cobra would end up weighing even more and the weight you would be adding, in the form of a cage, would raise your roll center.

Add in the fact that we drive the car everywhere. We drive it to car shows. We drive it to work. We drive it to the store for a gallon of milk. We drive it just the same as you would your daily driver. We completed the car in March and have been logging about 600 miles/month. And, all those miles are driven in comfortable seats, with frosty AC, a killer stereo and a quiet cabin where you can actually carry on a conversation without shouting.

In closing, the SN65 may not be the flashiest car on the block. It may not be the fastest. But it is by far the most well balanced totally custom car I have ever planted my butt in. And the SN65 will turn somewhere around 11 sec (plus or minus) in the quarter mile and also would do itself proud on any road course.

What suspension, chassis modifications have you made to your Cobra???

EDIT: Just looked at FUEL on your site. In your text, you said it has a 10 point cage. In the photos I only counted 6. Am I missing something or was that a typo?

[Bob Johnson]

That's good you didn't say No. So whats it gonna cost?
$11K w/o the rear end and wheels..no hebe jebe..

[SN65]

You were wound tighter than a clock spring. I could make millions if I could bottle your adrenaline and make energy drinks..lol..you had a good time and it was fun watching you in action..
Hi Bob,

By the end of the weekend, I was spent. It took me a couple of days to recharge my batteries, but after that I was back to normal.

It is the same for me at all these car shows. I am so pumped at seeing all the cool rides that I cannot contain myself. And, as long as there is a car guy to talk to, I can go all day long. It is kind of like throwing gas on a fire. The more people to talk to, the more worked up I get.

Look forward to seeing you in Vegas, if not before. :-)

[Elusive R]

If you really knew what your CD was thru the range to 200mph

As an aside, and since this thread has turned in to a bit of aerodynamic tech, CD (coefficient of drag) does not change, no matter the speed (unless you get into the supersonic range).

Ryan, who has nothing to criticize about any of the cars here.

[syborg tt]

I'll jump into the fire just for the fun of it.

On 07-28-89 a GMC S15 Pick up with barely over 500hp set the first land speed record in a truck at 194.770mph

On 09-14-90 once again GMC broke the record with just a touch more hp and set a new land speed record at 210.069mph

I'm not sure why people think this car is going to have a tough time doing 200mph - heck if a GMC Pick up can do it with 500hp i am fairly certain that this awesome mustang can do it.

On a side note - it's nice when builder actually post pics of there build. To me it makes the car more impressive. It show's people what it actually took to build the car.

[Bob Johnson]

As an aside, and since this thread has turned in to a bit of aerodynamic tech, CD (coefficient of drag) does not change, no matter the speed (unless you get into the supersonic range).

Ryan, who has nothing to criticize about any of the cars here.
that's true..but at a certain point, airflow starts taking on a life of its own..

[Damn True]

CD is only a part of the equation. As discussed in other threads, frontal area is a huge factor as well.

[Elusive R]

CD is only a part of the equation. As discussed in other threads, frontal area is a huge factor as well.

What he said!

It's true, Bob - airflow gets wicked at high speeds, but only because the forces involved become exponentially higher. The force of the air is exerted on the frontal area. Cd is just a muliplier.

I sure this Mustang could hit 200, but the unknown is how well it will drive at that speed.

Ryan

[Bob Johnson]

well lets not forget the air at the rear of the car. Things can get real ugly back there too...look at the Nascar cars when someone gets close and takes the air off the back..Lots of jet pilots got killed back in the 60's with Lear Jets. Get that thing up past 500/550 and they would just lose lift and stall..The air over and under the wing lost lift and it was over. Many a Fed X and Postal Pilot crashed before they figured out what was going on.

[Streetking]

nice car, but kinda cocky for a first post.

Jody

I agree Jody, maybe he has never seen Bob's beater Cuda..:)

SW

[WhirlingDurvish]

This has become one of my favorite threads. Not only because of the interesting comments, but more so because it shows what can and does happen when you open all the details of your project to public scrutiny.

When you show everybody every aspect of what you are doing, you are in effect asking for people’s opinion. When you do that you get the good along with the bad.

Now, some of you may think that the “good” is in reference to the “wow, cool car” comments and the “bad” are the “Why did you do *&#$” kind of comments. But no… it is the other way around. I would trade all the “wow, cool car” comments for one thoughtful criticism. For example, the comments Stuart made in regard to the front and rear suspensions are very insightful. While they may not be what Hotrods wants to hear does not make them any less valid. But, before taking what looks to be a great custom stang out and pushing it to the limit, you really have to give these things consideration. Serious consideration.

Also, at this point, it is kind of late for any of this input to help. All the work is already done.

That being the case, I will add my critique in regard to the cage design. While it may not help on this project, it may give you a few things to think about on your next. First off, without knowing the actuall tube diameter and wall thickness it appears fairly stout, but I see no triangulation. When you apply a twisting load to the chassis (let’s say during the application of 1,800 HP and God knows how much torque) you have nothing to keep the entire structure from twisting. Most cages of this type have at least some type of cross bracing in the cowl and rear roll bar areas as a minimum. Also, you have brought the main structure of the upper cage down to four kickers that extend out about a foot or so from the side of the frame rails. Another issue is that your major rear braces (the one that runs from the very end of the rear frame rail to the top of the cage) meets the cage at an unsupported point. You have four tubes running through the roof structure and this brace falls right in between all of them. You are transmitting the load to the weakest point of the cage. At least in the front you did add a kicker from the main tube to the outside of the cage.

Do not take any of these comments in a negative way. They are not made in an attempt to diminish what you have done in any way. I am just commenting on what I see. And from what I see, it looks like it will be a killer car when complete.

I know!!! Maybe we can schedule some track time after SEMA and we can get Rossie, the G-force Cuda, Booby Alloway’s Stang, the Ring Brothers newest creation and the SN65 out on a track and see how they all shake out. Or better yet, we could do it before SEMA. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Lets put all the cars through their paces before the big show. Now that sounds like a good time. :-)



Well, I have some bad news for you. The last thing you are going to see is Booby Alloways Stang going around the track. The last thing he does is build a car to drive the hell out of. That year he won Street Rod of the Year with the track nose speedstar and they had to go for a drive after the big win, he was sh***** bricks. I bet those goofy tires and wheels mixed with that awful stance combines for one impressive handling machine.

[Bob Johnson]

Well, I have some bad news for you. The last thing you are going to see is Booby Alloways Stang going around the track. The last thing he does is build a car to drive the hell out of. That year he won Street Rod of the Year with the track nose speedstar and they had to go for a drive after the big win, he was sh***** bricks. I bet those goofy tires and wheels mixed with that awful stance combines for one impressive handling machine.
Bobby vote for my Woodie for Shades car of the Year, or my 56 Truck for Top 25 because I didn't have shiny painted fenderwells. I drive my stuff. I had rock guard sprayed in there to body color. It was very nice but not smooth slick. Looked great to me but he said it just wasn't done to his taste. You drive a car like that and you get inny outties and nicks galore. Hunkins shot a car for Alloway and he said it started to lightly mist..Bobby hustled the car in the trailer and headed back to the barn. Johnny was shooting the Battle Axe and it started to pour before we got to the site. He said what do you want to do? I said if you don't mind getting wet, the Axe doesn't mind. The Power Tour rained like cats and dogs the whole way when I long hauled it. Sold my ramp truck when I debuted the Axe in Tallahassee. Everyone said, now how are you getting the Camaro home?..I said drive that bit*ch, if I wanted a painting, I'd have bought one. The Challenger was supposed to do a performance test in South Carolina with PHR, including autocross, skid, braking,etc. last year when it was just completed. The clutch came out of it before they got anywhere. It took awhile to get the injection working properly. I still don't think they have any real aircleaners on it. I think he got hijacked at SMOY last year. Probably why he's on the T Shirt.

[Bob Johnson]

Well, I have some bad news for you. The last thing you are going to see is Booby Alloways Stang going around the track. The last thing he does is build a car to drive the hell out of. That year he won Street Rod of the Year with the track nose speedstar and they had to go for a drive after the big win, he was sh***** bricks. I bet those goofy tires and wheels mixed with that awful stance combines for one impressive handling machine.
Yep it beat Alan Johnson's 32 that year. Johnson's sold at Barrett for over a hundred grand,(worth way more) and Scotty Gray ran Bobby's SROY Speedstar at Barrett Jackson and it no sold in the 60's (before they were all No Reserve) I don't even think they had real money when it no sold. Bobby even flew back from the Grand National Roadster Show to personally escort it across the block with his big buddy Boyd in tow..Scotty Gray then had Mike Rutter cut the top off it and make it into a convt. (Before Scotty discarded Mike and screwed him like a dog.) Like they didn't already have a convt. Speedstar..duh..even before the coupe..unbelievable..

[Slammed58Buick]

Bobby vote for my Woodie for Shades car of the Year, or my 56 Truck for Top 25 because I didn't have shiny painted fenderwells. I drive my stuff. I had rock guard sprayed in there to body color. It was very nice but not smooth slick. Looked great to me but he said it just wasn't done to his taste. You drive a car like that and you get inny outties and nicks galore. Hunkins shot a car for Alloway and he said it started to lightly mist..Bobby hustled the car in the trailer and headed back to the barn. Johnny was shooting the Battle Axe and it started to pour before we got to the site. He said what do you want to do? I said if you don't mind getting wet, the Axe doesn't mind. The Power Tour rained like cats and dogs the whole way when I long hauled it. Sold my ramp truck when I debuted the Axe in Tallahassee. Everyone said, now how are you getting the Camaro home?..I said drive that bit*ch, if I wanted a painting, I'd have bought one. The Challenger was supposed to do a performance test in South Carolina with PHR, including autocross, skid, braking,etc. last year when it was just completed. The clutch came out of it before they got anywhere. It took awhile to get the injection working properly. I still don't think they have any real aircleaners on it. I think he got hijacked at SMOY last year. Probably why he's on the T Shirt.


Bob, are you trying to say that you think Bobbys car should have won SMOTY last year? If thats the case I totally disagree. Roy Pigford's Nova is by far one of the nicest street machines around and Roy drives it alot. I think the only reason the Challenger ended up on the shirts is because Roys Nova was already on Lonestar Nationals event shirt for the 2005 and they never or very rarely put the same car on multiple event shirts. The majority of judges all voted for Roys Nova. The better car won.

[Bob Johnson]

Bob, are you trying to say that you think Bobbys car should have won SMOTY last year? If thats the case I totally disagree. Roy Pigford's Nova is by far one of the nicest street machines around and Roy drives it alot. I think the only reason the Challenger ended up on the shirts is because Roys Nova was already on Lonestar Nationals event shirt for the 2005 and they never or very rarely put the same car on multiple event shirts. The majority of judges all voted for Roys Nova. The better car won.
I heard exactly the opposite on the judges vote. But then I didn't see how they voted. Alan Johnson, Kyle @ Detroit Speed, Troy, Fat Mans, Johnny Hunkins,**** at Goodguys were the judges I knew of. I heard rumors of how they voted except ****. Do you know anyone else that voted? Roy's car probably was the better car, but the Challenger better fit my taste. Roy's would win hands down at an ISCA Show for sure.

[killer69]

Hey Hotrod

You sure know how to stir the ****!!!! don't you

HaHaHaHa
you don't have any time to partisipate in these forum discussions. You got WAY too much work to do!!!:help!: :help!: :help!:
Just get R done and let everyone see it at SEMA

[Slammed58Buick]

I heard exactly the opposite on the judges vote. But then I didn't see how they voted. Alan Johnson, Kyle @ Detroit Speed, Troy, Fat Mans, Johnny Hunkins,**** at Goodguys were the judges I knew of. I heard rumors of how they voted except ****. Do you know anyone else that voted? Roy's car probably was the better car, but the Challenger better fit my taste. Roy's would win hands down at an ISCA Show for sure.


I don't really know how the judges voted either. I really like the Challenger (She Devil) but that car of Roys is just amazing. The detail, finish, mods, and amazing paint job made it one impressive machine. Not to take anything away from the Challenger, because it was a really cool car that looked mean as hell. However, the Nova is on a whole other level. Some called it a sympahty pick, but I feel that if one car could beat that Challenger it was the Nova and Bobby should not feel ashamed or upset for loosing to that car. Look at it this way, there were 3 other cars that he could have lost to that could have been more upsetting to him. At least it was in the top five and on the shirts. That says just as much as winning.

[Bob Johnson]

NOTHING AS FAR AS CAR SHOWS GO IS AS MUCH AS WINNING. BOBBY'S 57 T BIRD WON SMOY THE YEAR BEFORE. HE HAD GAY'S CAR IN SROY FINALS along WITH THE CHALLENGER in SMOY. ROY'S NOVA WOULD HAVE BEATEN THE 57 T-BIRD THE YEAR BEFORE IF HE HADN'T BLOWN HIS HOOD UP AND MADE THE SHOW. (LOGIC THAT I'VE HEARD)..But none of this does any good for Ken, the owner of the Challenger who by the way is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. He and Bobby took the loss like gentlemen. YOU ARE CORRECT, ROY'S CAR WAS AMAZING. Now let's see what happens next year when Alloway has the Mustang and the 37 Chevy up there..Alan will have the 32 of Doug's and Ron Winter's there and maybe another car or 2, and I guess Trepanier will have the 36. From what I've seen and heard, I don't see Bobby's 37 competing favorably with the other 2. There's a ton of work going into that 32 B400 Alan's building for Doug Cooper. Troy's top efforts speak for themselves.

[SN65]

Back on topic....

Here is a link to a race chassis that was built in conjunction with Ford Racing.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/builds/racingbuilds.asp?builderid=3&buildtype=1&pagenumber=1

Lots of good ideas in regard to cage design, etc...

[datsbad]

Well, where do I start... :-)

First, the premise of the SN65 project was to build a car that looked like it could have rolled off a Ford assembly line. I believe that we succeeded at that point. In fact, if we do not point out all of the modifications, people have no idea as to what we did. And for those out there who think it is easier to make a project look factory than it is to make it look custom, I suggest you give it a shot. :-)

We paid a lot of attention to improving the design of the unibody structure. We did not just weld the two sheet metal structures together and call it a day. Added to the Cobra/Mustang unibody are structural tube reinforcements to the rockers, cowl, firewall, front strut towers, rear suspension attachment points, etc... Also, we added heavy gage sheet metal reinforcements to the frame rails, cowl and "B" pillar areas. The entire package is designed to transfer all loads from the front suspension mounting points, through the shock towers and frame rails, into the cowl area, up through the "A" pillars to the roof and down to the rockers. The same is true of the rear suspension. All loads are transferred to the rockers and "B" pillars. All of these structural modifications and we still maintained all the unibody crumple zones. We even tied the collapsible frame rail extensions into the structure of the front bumpers.

Also, our wheelbase is 7" longer than a stock Cobra. Our shock towers are between the #1 and 2 cylinder where yours are between the #3 and 4. Not only did we relocate the center of gravity backwards (the car is not as nose heavy) but we also relocated the center of gravity lower. We added about 170 Lbs of steel to the car (in the rockers and suspension reinforcements) and yet the car weighs in at about 100 to 150 Lbs LESS than your 03. All the weight we removed was high in relation to the roll center and all the weight we added was low.

So, even if you were able to cage your 03 Cobra chassis to get the same performance as the SN65's chassis, your Cobra would end up weighing even more and the weight you would be adding, in the form of a cage, would raise your roll center.

Add in the fact that we drive the car everywhere. We drive it to car shows. We drive it to work. We drive it to the store for a gallon of milk. We drive it just the same as you would your daily driver. We completed the car in March and have been logging about 600 miles/month. And, all those miles are driven in comfortable seats, with frosty AC, a killer stereo and a quiet cabin where you can actually carry on a conversation without shouting.

In closing, the SN65 may not be the flashiest car on the block. It may not be the fastest. But it is by far the most well balanced totally custom car I have ever planted my butt in. And the SN65 will turn somewhere around 11 sec (plus or minus) in the quarter mile and also would do itself proud on any road course.

What suspension, chassis modifications have you made to your Cobra???

EDIT: Just looked at FUEL on your site. In your text, you said it has a 10 point cage. In the photos I only counted 6. Am I missing something or was that a typo?


SN65 , I love your car and di not mean ANY disrespect , In fact I did not know all those details about your car , I guess I should have had all the facts before spouting off !

I am sure that the car does in fact handle much better than my portly pig 03 convertible.

I had the impression it was as my 03 was . Again not aware of all the mods you did with wheelbase and engine placement (Or at least i knew but just did not think before i spoke)

As for the 10 point , you are right . I eliminated some bars for a true street car cababilty. The back seat would have been pretty much worthless to put my kids in with the other bars .

Again no disrecpect !

[SN65]

SN65 , I love your car and di not mean ANY disrespect , In fact I did not know all those details about your car , I guess I should have had all the facts before spouting off !

I am sure that the car does in fact handle much better than my portly pig 03 convertible.

I had the impression it was as my 03 was . Again not aware of all the mods you did with wheelbase and engine placement (Or at least i knew but just did not think before i spoke)

As for the 10 point , you are right . I eliminated some bars for a true street car cababilty. The back seat would have been pretty much worthless to put my kids in with the other bars .

Again no disrecpect !
Hi Dats,

No disrespect taken. Also, I did not think you were spouting off. Everybody askes the same question. I can't tell you how many times I have repeated the above. At this point, I think that I could recite it in my sleep. Next time we will have to make all the mods visible so that people will be more aware of all the work involved. :-)

OBTW, love your ride. FUEL looks like a killer car. Hope you are enjoying your seat time.

[Bob Johnson]

Hi Dats,

No disrespect taken. Also, I did not think you were spouting off. Everybody askes the same question. I can't tell you how many times I have repeated the above. At this point, I think that I could recite it in my sleep. Next time we will have to make all the mods visible so that people will be more aware of all the work involved. :-)

OBTW, love your ride. FUEL looks like a killer car. Hope you are enjoying your seat time.
Oh Bob..you love reciting it over and over..i've seen you in action. Reminds me of a revival preacher during the passing of the plate.

[SN65]

Oh Bob..you love reciting it over and over..i've seen you in action. Reminds me of a revival preacher during the passing of the plate.
Hi Bob,

Hummm.... Passing the plate.... Why didn't I think of that? Great idea Bob. Praise the Lord. Any contribution is welcome. Help us by funding the hot rodders wayside home where auto-o-holics come to renew and rejuvenate. :-)

[Bob Johnson]

Hi Bob,

Hummm.... Passing the plate.... Why didn't I think of that? Great idea Bob. Praise the Lord. Any contribution is welcome. Help us by funding the hot rodders wayside home where auto-o-holics come to renew and rejuvenate. :-)
sounds more like the Chi Town Hustler to me...

[SN65]

These guys better get a move on. I was just at their site and the latest photos show them setting up the turbo plumbing. No pics of any painted items yet.

Just about 6 weeks to get r done.

[syborg tt]

These guys better get a move on. I was just at their site and the latest photos show them setting up the turbo plumbing. No pics of any painted items yet.

Just about 6 weeks to get r done.

Hi Bob,

Meet your Brother this weekend in Downers Grove. I heard that you guy's turned down an offer for 175,000 for the Mustang.
Wow ! :firefire:

[F70t/a]

I'm sure Roise is much farther ahead, but a lot of builders dont update much.

[SN65]

Hi Bob,

Meet your Brother this weekend in Downers Grove. I heard that you guy's turned down an offer for 175,000 for the Mustang.
Wow ! :firefire:
Yep, 175K won't keep our wives up in the manor that they have become accustomed. We are going to need over 200K to part with the car. I guess we will find out if we have our heads up our butts this coming Jan...

[SN65]

I'm sure Roise is much farther ahead, but a lot of builders dont update much.
Thats a shame. I was hoping to see some up to date photos. But then again, I guess I will see the car at SEMA.

[hotrods]

a few updates will be posted in a while but we are keeping it under wraps for now, also our booth location will be announced in the near future. There is already some paint on the car right now. Motor is going on the dyno in a couple of days. We will be in Vegas with Rosie. Sn65 thats alot of cake

[ProdigyCustoms]

Yep, 175K won't keep our wives up in the manor that they have become accustomed. We are going to need over 200K to part with the car. I guess we will find out if we have our heads up our butts this coming Jan...

We had a simlar situation were we had a very strong unsolictited offer at the big show last year and Michael turned it down. I tried to explain to young Michael that 2 fools just met, but he was emotional about it. now you Bob, your old enough to know better!

[syborg tt]

Yep, 175K won't keep our wives up in the manor that they have become accustomed. We are going to need over 200K to part with the car. I guess we will find out if we have our heads up our butts this coming Jan...

In order for you to get 200 for it at Barret Jackson you are going to need at least a $250k bid. I hope the gamble you are playing works in your favor. I was at Barret Jackson last year to see what it was all about because we were going to bring our 62 bubble top there. Let me tell you if your not one there best buddies they will screw you faster then a 2 bit whore in a chicken coupe. Just my personal opinion. It's a great spectacle but nothing I would bring any of my cars to. Your better off selling it to the first person that makes you an offer an Sema.
:Alchy: I almost forgot they did sell that burgandy 69 camaro for big bucks. But like i said that car was there premier car and they gave it more then quote / unquote 5 minutes on the block.

PS - There are much better auctions in my opinion that have been selling the heck out of muscle cars and you don't have to worry about the no researve thingy and the possible heart brake after you watch your car sell for less then you hoped.