Question For Mark Stielow

[samholder]

Mark - I followed intently the building of "The Mule" in PHR and have finally gotten to the point that I am ready to start my own. As I have researched what components to use, I focused in on the Wayne Due subframe you used in "the Mule". Through my inquiries, I have heard that you are planning a new build with a different front subframe, possibly the DSE unit. I am in NC and toured the DSE facility last week. I saw the prototype on Stacey's '69. They are not to a point to provide pricing though they cautioned it will be on the high end of the subframe market. Knowing your background and expertise, Is this the best piece on the market in your opinion? Are others close? Money is an issue and I need to be as prudent in these decisions as possible. What rear suspension set up do you prefer? I do not plan to race myy car but do want it to be capable. I say that to outline that I may not need the best piece on the market but I'm sure I will want the best. I would like to know your opinion on the best piece and the best for the money assuming they are not the same. Thanks for your time.

I have received some guidance already from those on the board, specifically Tyler Beauregard at ATS. I want to lay out a specific plan af attack for my build with specific parts a manufacturers as well as what sequence to do the work. Any help you could provide would be great.

Sam Holder

P.S. I assume you are a Mech. Eng from your background. I am a ME from N.C. State Univ.

[TitoJones]

Sam-

Mark can get exceptionally busy, and doesn't always check the boards. I can tell you that Camaro X, his newest project is based off a factory subframe. On the front he is running a set of DSE upper/Lower control arms, AFX spindles, and Bilstien coil-overs with the upper control arm in the factory mounting location. Out back is a quadralink.
My personal opinion (which I know I already gave you) is that the DSE sub is going to be one of the best 'bolt-on' frames out period. There are cars that will out handle it, but we are talking serious custom work, engine setbacks, and so on.

Tyler

[samholder]

Thanks Tyler. I am still putting my game plan together and still asking questions. As you and I discussed last week. The only drawback, money aside, to me is the fact that only DSE will supply replacement parts. I like the fact that other subframes offer the flexibility of off-the-shelf parts like the Wayne Due C-5 subframe. I am probably leaning that direction. It is my desire to set out, as best as I can, a complete materials / manufacturers list and work sequence for my rebuild. As I pull more of my thoughts together, I would like to speak with you again about your opinions and some of you products. Thanks for your input.

Sam

[Steve1968LS2]

I would suggest either the stock subframe with ATS spindles or the 21st Century Street Machines front subframe with C5 components. I like it slighly better than the Wayne Due sub since it has a bit more adjustability. The quality of both is top notch.

I highly reccomend Tyler and his parts.. Neither will let you down (hey, that should be some sort of ATS slogan...)

[victionone]

Sam,

It sounds like you just want to build a wicked car, and want the "wow" factor of a custom subframe. You will be more than satisfied with the handling of bolt on parts with a stock subframe, but if a custom subframe is what you want and you can afford it, then buy it.

Vic

[rohrt]

SAM
You sound like where I was at a few months ago. I wanted all the hottest/best parts because I didn't know what I was going to be using the car for, so i wanted it set for any type of event.
What I discovered, with the help of this think tank was you could have a DSE tricked out car running down the track getting passed by one of the guys here with his stock subframe and leaf spring setup. What looks good isn't always what runs good but it all comes down to tunning for a specific track and driving skills. This isn't first hand experience, just a summary of good advice hear on this site.

[Steve Chryssos]

Take it from someone who has a tubular clip. They kick ass!! Modified stock subframes work great, but the aftermarket clips allow for proper mounting of front steer rack & pinion steering plus deep backspace wheels, weight savings and plenty of room for custom exhaust. These are real world benefits.

I was one of the first to get an aftermarket clip six years ago. I have years of practical owner/driver/builder experience. Don't let anyone tell you that the good aftermarket clips (Wayne Due, 21st Century..) are just for show. These are well sorted out designs. I prefer the 21st Century clip--at least until I see the DSE part.

That said, if you only plan on screwing around on the street, you do not need more than a modded factory clip. But if you don't mind spending the money, you will benefit from the improvements described above nonetheless.