Second Gen Camaro front suspension upgrades-cheap?

[bretcopsey]

I am about to install a clip from an '81 model onto my '51 Chevy truck. My plan is to set the ride height such that the lower control arms are parallel to the ground (lower bj center level with control arm mounting bolts) same as recomended for 1st gen. I will need to rebuild the suspension with all new bushings/ball joints etc. and here is what I am contemplating:

Steel control arm bushings from www.speedwaymotors.com (http://www.speedwaymotors.com) Good/bad idea?

Moog tie rods, idler arm and ball joints (center link a wear item?)

I'm thinking of replacing the springs with either higher rated Moog or using Afco adjuster and springs-which route and what rates/part numbers?

Shock recomendation?

Anything else?

The brakes will be 13" C4 in the front, not sure about rear yet-but definitely disc. The wheels will be either 17" or 18" 8"-9" max. The rear will retain the leafs, at least for now. Somewhere in the future I may change to three/four link or truck arm.

I am planning this to be a daily driven vehicle with a tight/balanced chassis. It will only be street driven, no track time-it is a truck after all!! I want to do this as inexpensively as possible so that I can get back to my Camaro.

[astroracer]

Rebuild the suspension with a kit from PST. Polygraphite bushings will work MUCH better then steel for a street truck. You will NOT like steel on the streets, believe me...
I would suggest getting it running and on the road with the stock springs BEFORE you spend a lot of money on custom parts. Once you get it on the road then you'll have a baseline to start tuning it...
Mark

[bretcopsey]

Mark,

I appreciate the feedback. I have been 'programmed' to either go with rubber or solid, because p/g sticks, not to mention the noise factor. Thoughts?

Secondly, I didn't mention before, but the donor clip came from a V6 car and I will be using a small block. Plus the thought of blowing the front-end apart, refinishing and then reusing the crusty springs is not appealing to me. Would you still recomend the use of the original springs as a baseline given they are V6 springs?

[TLWiltman]

Might be a bit more $$, but you could go with Global West Del-A-Lum bushings.
-Doesn't stick like poly (by all accounts)
-can be lubed/maintained
-will ride a bit stiff... but COME ON!, it's a truck. On the flip side, geometry will be maintained
-won't wear out like solid steel bushings will
-isn't there a lifetime warranty on those things?

[SHANE 73Z]

I just did my 73. I used Global West bushings in the stock lower arms, Speedway Motors 5.5" x 9.5" 500 lb springs and adjusters. I also used SC&C upper arms & tall ball joints. SC&C also recommended a s-10 ZQ8 bump stop to use as well. I am leaving the Edelbrock shocks for now as they are new.

Do you have any idea what the frontend weight is??? It is a must to determine spring rate.


Shane

[David Pozzi]

The original pickup truck bushings were all steel. I'd give steel a try, you can allways switch them out if you don't like them. I ran solid steel upper A arm bushings on my 67 Camaro and hardly noticed the difference. Better yet, there are delrin/glass filled A arm bushings called "lightweight" that would be a bit easier riding.

I'd go with a 500 to 550 lb front spring, stock is going to be 300 or below.
David

[Marcus SC&C]

I`m not a big fan of poly bushings (squeak squeak),they have non linear binding characteristics (squeak) and cold flow (squeak) issues too. Oh they squeak too. ;)

In light of the fact that it`s going to be a daily driver I`d suggest rubber bushings in the LCAs. For your application you should be able to get Moog Problem Solver HD bushings,with higher durometer for better performance with no downside. Since you`re doing this on a tight budget take the money you save over buying DelaLums (which are very good BTW) and buy a really good set of shocks (Bilsteins,Vari shocks etc.). You`ll get a LOT more performance gain (and a better ride) out of the good shocks than you will harder bushings. You can use steel for the UCAs and you probably won`t even feel the difference largely due to the fact that the UCAs bear none of the cars weight,they just hold the spindles upright. In fact I drove a car with greasable steel UCA bushings to the office today (and most every other day!).
For springs I`d suggest something in the 500-600lb/in range. Anything less and at your lowered ride height you run the risk of bottoming out the headers/oil pan on bumps. If you go on the lower end of the range pick up a set of those neat ZQ8 elastomer bumpstops. They`re cheap (around $35) and work really well. They have a very progressive rate you barely feel come in and they don`t impart much if any additional rebound rate. These front ends like more + caster if you can get it and don`t forget if you set the truck up with 2-3 degrees of hot rod rake you`ll loose that much + caster. A set of our adj. tubular upper arms would take care of that and are pretty easy on the ol budget. Mark SC&C

[astroracer]

The V6 spring thing would have been good to know. Being that you need to buy new ones anyway I would have said to go with a set of performance springs...

I am going by my experience with the poly's guys... I have been running the same set in my truck since '99 and they DON'T squeak... Not one peep... The poly-graphites are supposed to be better in this respect but I've never had a squeaking problem with any I have run. Am I just lucky?
Mark

Marcus,
As far as steel upper bushings goes is this really viable on a street car?
I don't want to "steel" Bret's thread but I am looking for alternatives for the BAD AST Project. I was planning to run poly's on the Lowers and stock ("G" body) rubber on the uppers. If steel is viable for the uppers I will make a set to fit the 1.25 I.D. of my upper bushing pivots. Much easier to do then machining the I.D. to match the stepped stock bushing sleeves.
Thanks
Mark

[71Formula]

Sorry I don’t have any answers for you, but I would be thankful if you could help me out with some information. I have a 55 Chevy step-side truck that is awaiting a complete restoration. Where did you get information on the second gen Camaro subframe swap? How hard of job does it look like? Sounds like acool project, let us know how it turns out!

[bretcopsey]

Ok, sounds like I've gotten a pretty good game plan. I still have a couple questions though. David, do you have a source for the glass lined bushings you mentioned? Also, can someone supply a Moog spring number? I'm familiar with the use of 6041 & 6082 on first gen Camaro's. Would the 6041 be about right for this?

Are the Moog rubber bushings all "problem solvers" or will I need to specify?

71formula check this link for more on the clip swap:


http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/clip_camaro/index.html

I'm not following this specific path, but rather using it as a guide. The hardest part of it for me, so far, was taking a deep breath and flipping the power switch on the grinder. Once I started cutting up the frame I felt a little more at ease. You must carefully measure EVERYTHING before getting to this point though. This is the first time I have done anything like this. But if you take a look at what I started with, you'll understand why I won't feel too bad if I end up screwing it up. Worst case, it will go back to the junkyard from which it came!! :hammer:

[David Pozzi]

Go here:http://www.behrents.com/index.htm

Search on AFCO control arm bushing.
Look for the "lightweight" version. lowers are AFC20076LW
I think they make an upper lightweight too.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
The only negative on these is no delrin washers on each side so the metal housing of the bushing can rub on the subframe sides.
If you use these, grease the ends.