TIG Welder for body work?

[HotRod68Camaro]

I am looking for a new welder. I have been welding with a Mig for +3 years now, everything from sheet metal to some heavy duty steel. I would say that I am quite proficient at it.

I do not know that much about TIG welding though. Can they be used to weld body panels? I just would like to have 1 welder instead of 2. I am guessing the reasons people use the Migs more than the Tigs are they are cheaper, and quicker.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks

Kyle

[Matt@RFR]

Do a search and I bet you find your answer.

[HotRod68Camaro]

I did that, didn't come up with my answer. I am not looking for advice on which welder model etc.

[Matt@RFR]

I know I've addressed this before, and I don't really have the time to go into it right now. Suffice it to say TIG is a horrible choice for welding big thin panels.

[David Pozzi]

It would be like welding with an acetylene torch, too much heat on too large an area, panel warping would be a big problem.

[HotRod68Camaro]

Awesome, thanks for the info guys. Looks like ill be sticking with the MIG for now, since i will be doing more steel welding than other metals.

Thanks

Kyle

Matt - love the sig quote by the way, seen it happen too many times.

[BRIAN]

Actually gas or oxy welding sheetmetal is the way to go if you plan on working weld or panel. They put in more heat but the weld is softer and workable. A mig welded seam can't be worked or anything like a oxy or even tig weld can

If you plan on doing patch panel work use a mig. If you are going to get into some real metal working high quality stuff use the oxy or tig.

Most guys mig up a panel and then grind off 95% of the weld and some of the orig metal making a very weak joint. Try hitting it with a hammer and dolly after it is ground down and you will understand. It takes practice to weld thin sheetmetal no matter what type of welder used.

[HotRod68Camaro]

Well most of the work that i have done is frame work, and welding up sheetmetal to the frame (subframe connectors) etc. i dont really see myself doing too much body work, atleast not compared to other work. Which route would you suggest (tig or mig)?

[72chevellephil]

hey hotrod68camaro,i have used tig for many years on patch panel work and what the other guys said about to much heat to the thin metal there wrong. with tig you can control your heat more .people who say tig is a bad choice is because there is less skill involved in mig compared to tig and there tig skills are not up there like a tig craftsmen like myself! but tig stuff,ie;machine,footcontrol,tig torch,water cooler.these up the price compared to mig.so more folks use mig. its all about practice!phil

[David Pozzi]

I'm not a body man, so I defer to the others here with more knowledge. I have done some torch and mig body repairs and wheelwell flares. I agree torch welding can work as well or better than mig in the right hands, but takes more skill to control or reduce warping since a torch or tig introduces more heat into the panels. Tig may be similar to torch welding but it doesn't work on thin hot rolled steel, you get loads of pin holes.

A lot depends on how much effort you want to put into learning techniques. You might want to tac weld with a mig and then tig or torch weld a panel, since the mig is much better at tac welding.

Read up on hammer welding. If you have the tools, try several methods.
If you guys have some tips on hammerwelding or TIG use, please post them.

[Matt@RFR]

hey hotrod68camaro,i have used tig for many years on patch panel work and what the other guys said about to much heat to the thin metal there wrong. with tig you can control your heat more .people who say tig is a bad choice is because there is less skill involved in mig compared to tig and there tig skills are not up there like a tig craftsmen like myself! but tig stuff,ie;machine,footcontrol,tig torch,water cooler.these up the price compared to mig.so more folks use mig. its all about practice!phil
The only reason I can see to use TIG on car body repair and construction is to say it's TIG welded. Compared to MIG, TIG takes longer, requires more prep, is more expensive to run (post flow) and requires way too much consentration for a measly patch panel. You may be a self proclaimed "TIG craftsmen" (do you need oversized doors in your house?), but in my eyes, you're waisting time and energy when all that's really required is a quick tack with a MIG.

The question was not whether it's possible. The question was what process would be the best for all around bodywork. MIG is the answer. TIG should only be used if it's required or if the 'look' is wanted. Beyond that it's a waste of time and money. Hell, I'd MIG all my aluminum stuff if people didn't insist on the 'look'.

[toxicz28]

.....and there tig skills are not up there like a tig craftsmen like myself!
:eek: :seizure: :hah: You just disrespected the WRONG weldor buddy! And on your first post too.:getout:


IBTL

[wendell]

Dude called him self a TIG craftsman! Amazing.

[FCRacing]

Hmmmmmmmmm well when I am installing floor pans or patch panels I use a MIG with 75/25 mix gas, but I still use a TIG to install custom body pieces into a panel..........I guess its just what I got used too........Oh and I have an air hose in my pocket that I take out and cool the metal every inch or so.............But Matt's right on the Benifits of miging...........It need much less prep and fit............Just my experience..................R

[David Pozzi]

FCRacing,
Thanks for the tip. :)
How well does the TIG work for tack welding?
I've done some steel oil pan sumps and bafles with TIG but no body parts.

[Matt@RFR]

TIG on steels is unbeatable for tacking when fitup is good. No filler required so when you run the weld you can't find the tacks.

Bottom line is if you're worried about warpage, MIG is usually the better choice.

[hotrdblder]

using air to cool the weld quickly is the wrong thing to do, cooling metal quickly is what we body craftsmen(lol) call shrinking

[tired68]

Okay

[Matt@RFR]

I did this after an hour or so of tinkering, my first time with the TIG. That's my point. If you used MIG you would've been done in 15 minutes, grinding and all.

Either way...you guys can have this body panel welding sh*t! :)

[David Pozzi]

Nice test.
It would be even better if you had an old door or larger body panel, then cut a 6" square out of it and weld in a patch. The larger panel has nowhere to go when it's heated and warping would tend to create a bulge.

A while back there was talk of a special MIG wire that was better for body work with less burn through problems.

David

[wiedemab]

David Pozzi

A while back there was talk of a special MIG wire that was better for body work with less burn through problems.

Not sure if this might be what you are referring to, but I've been meaning to try it. I don't think it's intended for structural parts, but I've had a few people recommend it for sheetmetal work. It's supposed to be easier (softer)to hammer and grind.

One of the resident experts might be able to give some more information about it and/or had experiences with it.

http://www.airgas.com/browse/product.aspx?Msg=RecID&recIds=373885&WT.svl=373885

[David Pozzi]

They say it's superior to ER70 wire, sounds good. It was either this wire or something similar that was brought up. Less likely to burn through and it's supposed makes a fairly flat bead.

[toxicz28]

Superior to ER70 wire, I doubt. It has no aws classification. If the AWS won't touch it, I wouldn't use it for anything structural.

[derekf]

Maybe was this the body work MIG wire?

http://www.jwharris.com/images/pdf3/twentygauge.pdf

[wiedemab]

As I stated above - I don't think it's intended for anything structural.

I have been meaning to try it on some patch panels to see how it does, but never got around to it.

[toxicz28]

Maybe was this the body work MIG wire?

http://www.jwharris.com/images/pdf3/twentygauge.pdf

Interesting.

[wiedemab]

Is it flux core?

[wendell]

David,
I think the 20g is the stuff you're thinking of. It made the rounds on the chevelle and camaro boards a while ago. It's not flux core (you need shielding gas) but it's not solid core. It's got some "other" metal in the core. The end result is supposed to be a more maliable weld that finishes better (or easier). AMtt probably knows every thing about it. He knows every thing about everything else welding. I'll stick with the ER70 my self.

[wiedemab]

I just called JW Harris tech to ask them what it was intended to be used for. It has a flux core, but not in order to weld without shielding gas, but to help with welding on dirty, rusty, or painted materials. It was originally developed with a beginner home welder in mind that would be doing random repairs around the house. I asked about the differences in "workability" etc. and he said that it would hammer, grind etc. basically the same as standard (ER-70 -3) - (Is that right nomenclature?). I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I thought I'd post what I found out.

Sorry to get off on this tangent - I know the original thread was talking about TIG and sheetmetal.

[Matt@RFR]

Matt probably knows every thing about it. Pfff. The less I know about body work, the better! :)


(ER-70 -3) - (Is that right nomenclature?). That would be ER70S-3.

[David Pozzi]

Thanks for the Twentygage info.
I think the Twentygage wire is the one I heard about a while back. I may get some and try it on a minitub project.
David

[67speedfreak]

If you are going to use tig on thin sheet metal then you should use silica bronze rod. It has a much lower melting point and won't warp as bad. When installing sheet metal in tube chassis cars we Silica bronze the panels to the chassis. Much cleaner looking.

[wiedemab]

Dumb question - would this be similar to brazing?

Would this be recommended for welding in patch panels????????

[67speedfreak]

Not like Brazing in that you use a tig torch.
Could be used on certin patch panels. I would not recommend this for long flat panels. Nice thing about it is it will lay down nicely and look cleaner with less grinding.

It definately has it's place in car building but if I could only use mig or tig I would choose mig for most panel repair.

One place Silica Bronze tig works well is when welding on a roof panel in the drip rail area. Easier to lay a nice flat beed in this tight area and very little grinding afterwards.

Brian