The big handling redo-help?

[formula]

alright guys, I'm getting ready to start gathering parts up for my big yearly project. I want to pull my front subframe and redo the front and rear suspension on my bird. I need your help with 1)thinking of anything on my list that i've missed and 2)helping me source all of the stuff on my list with question marks on it and 3)making sure everything i have listed, price-wise, seems fair.

-Air Ride AirBar rear suspension kit- $2,000
-AirRide Shockwave double adjustable “strong arm” front suspension kit- $1,500
-AirRide Ridepro-e Air control/compression system- $1,300
-Flaming river power steering box-$500
-Misc Lines, etc.-$500
-G-Braces-$160
-Subframe connectors-$160
-Solid Body bushings-$100
-redo subframe?
-engine mounts?
-tie rods?
-adjuster sleeves?
-drag link?
-idler and pitman arms?
-body mounts?
-bushings?

[sinned]

If the sole intent is handling as expressed in the title why are you about to spend 4800 on air ride parts? The title should have been something else like "about to bling my ride", or "going with bags...am I missing anything".

[wendell]

Ha! Denis keeps it real.
"alternatives to just lighting 4800 on fire"

[BonzoHansen]

-redo subframe – Clean & paint/powdercoat – maybe clean up welds, etc.
-engine mounts – replace – OE rubber or poly – Energy Suspension (same for trans)
-tie rods - MOOG
-adjuster sleeves – pretty solid ones – which one is a matter of cost/looks; I can’t see a functional difference
-drag link - MOOG
-idler and pitman arms – MOOG, OE is non-wear
-body mounts – Solid GW – but you already listed that.
-bushings – what bushings? Control arm? GW Del-a-lum. Sway? Poly – Energy Suspension

What, air bags & stock control arms? What a diametrically opposed parts selection. :)

[formula]

If the sole intent is handling as expressed in the title why are you about to spend 4800 on air ride parts? The title should have been something else like "about to bling my ride", or "going with bags...am I missing anything".

good point. thanks.


"alternatives to just lighting 4800 on fire"

You too.


What, air bags & stock control arms? What a diametrically opposed parts selection.

The strong arm kit includes tubular UCA's and LCA's. I should have mentioned that welding and powdering the sub are already in the cards. Thanks on everything else.

[chicane67]

Ditch the bag idea and get in the now.....

Lateral Dynamics 3-link would be on my list of "how to do things right the first time."

[formula]

Ditch the bag idea and get in the now.....

Lateral Dynamics 3-link would be on my list of "how to do things right the first time."

alright. you reminded me that I'm gonna have to rerun the back part of my exhaust. thanks.

[zbugger]

lol... Hey formula, do what you want. You remember that the G28 actually didn't perform half bad, right? If you want to spend the money on the air ride stuff, go for it. I'll see if I can get a list together for the other parts. As for tail pipes? Run turndowns after the muffler.

[formula]

yeah, if I remember right, g28 was one of PHR's best-performing cars ever with their first setup...and then managed to outperform itself significantly on a pretty much untuned second setup...which was rather similar to what I have planned.

Then again I may be wrong. I have been in the past.

I probably will end up with turndowns for now, depending on what I can talk my exhaust guy into. But I really like the way my exhaust is set up right now. We shall see.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[hssss]

Read what bret had to say about air ride.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18975

[formula]

I can't believe you would want to put airbags on a 7. Don't you know it won't handle for sh*t? :)

[wendell]

Formula,
Hope I wasn't keeping it TOO real in my last post.

The second gen front suspension has a ton of potential, it would be a shame to screw it up with air bags. The Lateral Dynamics 3link coupled with some good bushings in your stock front clip will give you the same setup as a few thousand late model stock cars. This would make for a very formidable track package.

[formula]

Formula,
Hope I wasn't keeping it TOO real in my last post.

The second gen front suspension has a ton of potential, it would be a shame to screw it up with air bags. The Lateral Dynamics 3link coupled with some good bushings in your stock front clip will give you the same setup as a few thousand late model stock cars. This would make for a very formidable track package.

Trust me, if you saw a picture of me you'd know that I either didn't get out much or developed a very thick skin quickly lol. No harm done.

I personally don't think that I'll be screwing it up. If the whole air bags thing keeps stickin in yer brain, just think of it as a triangulated four link with double-adjustable coilovers all around, with some fancy independently adjustable on-the-fly spring rate springs at each corner.

I may be wrong, and if I am, well, that's the name of the game sometimes. But somebody's gotta try it. Plus, I think that even if I don't rule the track, which I only drive on once in a blue moon at best (it's around a 3 hour drive to the nearest road course that I know of), I'll still be able to have a sh*tload of fun on backroad twisties (where I drive the car.....every day) while maintaining a comfy ride and variable ride height for different situations.

[Mean 69]

When you find that the setup doesn't meet your needs for performance, we'll be waiting for you.:)

Just kidding, but we are very confident in our setup. As was said though, do what you want, it's your car, but you did ask for opinions!

We are installing a 3-Link on a very clean 70 RS right now, as well as a mini-tub job (also finishing the suspension on my own 70, including the debut of our front suspension, completely new), and the owner of the car is intent on sharing progress pictures. Cool thing is that he will be running drag radials on the car, at least at first, so it'll be nice to dispell the thoughts that the LD 3-Link isn't a good launching setup.

Whatever you decide, have fun with it, that is the real goal afterall.
Mark

[wendell]

In the context of suspension design...
It's a free contry. Have at it.

The reason that there are a lot of references to racing is because racing is real. The systems that are popular for racing have evolved because they work. If they didn't work they wouldn't exist. I feel that it is best to take a track proven design and adapt it to a street car. The goal of a race car and a street car aren't that different; maximum cornering force, stability, predictability and reliability.

The "other" systems are designed for curb appeal and high profit margins.

[wendell]

I see Mark has continued to shirk his automotive responsiblities and out posted me again!

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Formula....... It looks like you have it figured out. I would suggest that if you are upgrading the front's to double adjustables that you go ahead and do the rears as well. For what it sounds like you are doing with the car, I am sure you will be more than happy. When you get all of the components installed and you start setting up to tune it in, give me a shout and I can help you get adjusted quicker and what to expect by making changes to the pressure and the shocks.

Tony

[BonzoHansen]

When you find that the setup doesn't meet your needs for performance, we'll be waiting for you.:)

Just kidding, but we are very confident in our setup. As was said though, do what you want, it's your car, but you did ask for opinions!

We are installing a 3-Link on a very clean 70 RS right now, as well as a mini-tub job (also finishing the suspension on my own 70, including the debut of our front suspension, completely new), and the owner of the car is intent on sharing progress pictures. Cool thing is that he will be running drag radials on the car, at least at first, so it'll be nice to dispell the thoughts that the LD 3-Link isn't a good launching setup.

Whatever you decide, have fun with it, that is the real goal afterall.
MarkGot links to pic of these hot rods? :cool:

[Mean 69]

Got links to pic of these hot rods?

Yeah, we do. Dave's 70 will be getting a project page here in a short while I would imagine, I need to start feeding him some pictures but it should be very informative, it is a really nice car (there are some "pre-photos of it in the new guy intro section). We are working to finish up our website, while important, it isn't as important as the things we have been focusing on, but it will have oodles of install pic's, and a full boogy deal on the cars we are working on, including the 70, and many others.

M

[hssss]

formula
Actually your question was answered by your next post. I don't know how it will handle till I try. The worst case is that I have to substitute coils for the bags. The best case is that it will handle great and be very adjustable. The cost to try is a used set of rear bags off a junk car.

[formula]

I really appreciate you guys' opinions, and I don't want you to get the idea that I only made this thread to have a bunch of yesmen to affirm my decision...I don't expect that everyone else would want to build my car exactly the same way that I would want to. In fact, I'm banking on it.

mean 69, I am absolutely impressed with you guys' 3 link. From what little I know, it appears to be extremely well-engineered and obviously performance is top notch. I really just don't think it's right for this car. The floor pan is just too clean for me to cut, I really like the adjustability on the fly and comfort of air suspension, and I really think that airbar's going to be enough, if not more than enough for my skills during track visits. Yes, a 3-link would probably knock a couple tenths off of my lap times once I get to be really good on the track...but I honestly can't think of many situations in the real world, where my car lives 363 days of the year, where the airbar, properly configured, isn't going to be more than adequate.

Plus, if I've learned anything from hot rodding, it's that nothing is permanent. Maybe in a couple years I'll stumble across a sweet little 2nd gen camaro and build meself a track whore...in that case, you guys will be at the very absolute top of my list.

IN THE MEAN TIME, DOES ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO HELP ME SOURCE WHAT'S LEFT ON MY LIST, OR COME UP WITH OTHER THINGS I SHOULD DO WHILE I HAVE THE CAR TORN APART?!?!?!?!?!?!

[formula]

formula
Actually your question was answered by your next post. I don't know how it will handle till I try. The worst case is that I have to substitute coils for the bags. The best case is that it will handle great and be very adjustable. The cost to try is a used set of rear bags off a junk car.

I didn't mean for you to take me seriously...I was hoping the smiley would tip off the sarcasm. I really don't think there's any way to make a 7 not handle, and the idea of bags on one is pretty awesome to me. Good luck to ya!

[hssss]

Agreed. I'm just trying to get rid of the bone jaring aspect. BTW amongst some of my junque is a couple of 455s one a 4 bolt main, some early 400 HO heads and some 7 & 8" snowflakes.
as well as other Firebird pieces.

[bret]

If any of you guys are going to any of the Power Tour stops in a couple of weeks, I'll have a 71 RS camaro there at our Air Ride Technologies display that you can take a ride in. I only wish they had an autocross at some stop as well as drag racing!
Guess I'll have to wait for the Goodguys Nashville show or the Open Track Smackdown in Oct.
Come and see us on the Power Tour if you can.

[formula]

I'm gonna try to make it to either the perry or columbia stops. Hope to see you there!

[Tony@AirRideTech]

for you guys that did not catch that . There will be an Autocross set up at the Goodguys show in Nashville June 23-25th.We will have a few cars there ourselves that we will be wringing out. :) If you are lucky, I might even take you for a lap because we all know that Bret cant drive :)

[bret]

Actually...Tony could probably lay down a good lap...if he could reach both pedals.
I smell him cooking me a big fat steak in his new garage when he doesn't come within a second of my best time in Nashville. This would be the under construction garage from which he has tracked mud through the office for the last 6 weeks :).

[Tony@AirRideTech]

There is no reason to act like that now... its not like you have a foot over the top of me ha ha ha ha ha .... Its on man!! here is the lay out.... we will take the Red Camaro ( both of us have a fair amount of time in that car ) fastest lap of the weekend. The Looser purchases and cooks the steak of the winners choice (regardless of cut or grade you cheap ass :) ), Saunders sausage, and sides......

By the way.... I Like my steaks, seasoned and cooked medium with authentic green chilies served up with a cold Amberboch.....

Formula.... sorry to hi-jack your thread :)

[formula]

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know I'll be around in columbia on tuesday. I look forward to seeing y'all!

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Columbia........ did I miss something?