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View Full Version : Schubeck "Roller X Lifters" ???



David Pozzi
10-17-2004, 07:20 PM
http://www.schubeckracing.com/rollerx.html
These look cool, anyone hear of them???
David

JamesD
10-17-2004, 08:46 PM
interesting concept, a little pricy at 1 grand for the set

David Pozzi
10-17-2004, 09:14 PM
What I"m facing is I have been told not to run over 450 lbs open spring pressure on a street roller cam. This is limiting hp output to 600, when I could get 650 with more spring/cam combo! :icon996:
David

Kenova
10-18-2004, 07:34 AM
http://www.schubeckracing.com/rollerx.html
These look cool, anyone hear of them???
David

There is a small story on them in December's Chevy High Performance magazine. They mention that they are planning to try them out in a future engine buildup.

Schubeck also makes flat tappet lifters with some space-age material on the cam contact surface. I seem to remember them handling some pretty exteme lobe designs. They too are very pricey.

Ken

airrj1
10-18-2004, 07:53 AM
I have read about them in the NHRA Stock and Super Stock forums. They are using and loving the flat tappet versions. Since they can run as many different cams as they want on the same lifters. It sounds like they are commonly testing new cams and now they can do it all with one set of lifters. So the price is a deal for them.

Lowend
10-18-2004, 09:29 AM
Camcojb ran those in the old 540 69 Camaro...
I personally don't love them. They require a specific cam core that only Shubeck offers. The limitations seem a bit much
I look at them and really don't see the benefit of running these vs a mushroom flat tappet.
Yeah mushroom lifters are a PITA to install but they have been around for 40 years and you can use conventional valvetrain

David Pozzi
10-18-2004, 10:34 AM
These new lifters would replace conventional roller lifters and use any standard roller camshaft. The older radius face lifters required a special cam.
David

Lowend
10-18-2004, 03:21 PM
Hmm this must be a new devlopment
Still at $1000/set I think I would be tempted to try a set of behive valvesprings and a conventional roller lifter
What kinda of cam specs are we talkin here?

David Pozzi
10-18-2004, 07:28 PM
Comp cam specs:
> > GRIND #: CS 288R-6 /296R-4 R 112.0

> > VALVE ADJUSTMENT .026 .026
> > GROSS VALVE LIFT .609 .609

> > VALVE TIMING OPEN CLOSE
> > @ .050 INT 16 60
> > EXH 64 20
> > SPECS FOR CAM INST. @ 112.0 CENTERLINE
> > INT EXH
> > DURATION @ .050 256.00 264.00
> > LOBE LIFT .406 .406
> > LOBE SEPARATION 112.0
> > ROCKER ARM RATIO 1.50 1.50
Above cam was dynoed in a very similar engine (427 SB, 18 deg heads) that made just under 650 hp at 6600. But 1.7 intake and 1.6 exhaust rockers were used, so intake net lift was over .650" exhaust was .623".

Crower is recomending at .050"
DUR 274/274 ADV DUR 309
LOBE LIFT .425/425
GROSS LIFT .637 WITH 1.5 TO 1 ROCKERS

This Crower recomendation is for long life street and road course use. Their HP prediction is 615 hp at 7000 but that seems low to me.

DB Z28
10-19-2004, 03:22 AM
Crane Cams is also working on this also this was about 2years ago ceramic roller wheel no needle bearings. I don,t know if it worked out.
:rolleyes5

Mark Antrim
10-19-2004, 03:58 AM
a friend of mine just bought a set of those and showed me what they looked like. Great design, it holds up great to his 8 second mopar.

Lowend
10-19-2004, 06:56 AM
Man - that is a ton of duration for a road race car with the Crower reccomendation

I'll see what I can find

Lowend
10-19-2004, 09:07 AM
Hmm - So I am seeing a conventional Crower/Eibach spring
Seat: 1.850@187#
Nose: 1.250@445#
Coilbind @ 1.100
that should cover a .650 lift with the right retainer.

I am also looking at an Isky spring 8205
[email protected]
[email protected]
Coilbind at 1.170

The conical springs I am finding don't have enough pressure with around 300#

David Pozzi
10-19-2004, 12:11 PM
I put a lot of emphasis on durability when talking to Crower. His initial choice had duration closer to the Comp cam but after seeing I was considering doing a Power Tour with the car someday, he backed down the lifter velocity and the duration increased a lot...

I got a bad report of the Schubeck Roller X lifters from a member on Team Camaro forum.
The report was three cams tested, three damaged! I guess it's not proven for street use yet. Might work on a drag car.
David

Mark Antrim
10-19-2004, 02:51 PM
If anyone wants to see one in person at sema let me know my friend has a spare. Also if you want to order a set let me know I can get 5 percent off

SDMAN
10-24-2004, 09:21 AM
If you want to have a relatively hassle free setup with stock type parts, the 450# open pressure limit is the way to go. Stock type parts means factory lifter diameters, stud mount rockers and factory sized valve lengths and springs.
If you want to run significantly more open pressure, and have any reliability at all, everything from the cam bearings to the valve will need to be upgraded. And your maintenance will increase. How much? Depends on your mileage. Mostly this means replacing springs when necessary, and keeping a close eye on the roller lifters for wear. But the entire valvetrain will need periodic inspection.
My new pump gas street motor has 220# seat/620# open. I figure Ill eat a set of springs and put new roller lifters in it once a year (I figure 3000 miles a year use). Not really a big deal.

David Pozzi
11-07-2004, 02:24 PM
I just got back from SEMA. Talked to a Comp Cams rep there and he says the new lifters introduced this year have harder needle rollers and harder pin. The lifters are also rebuildable with snap ring in the pin holes and have pin oiling holes but he says the oiling it not the main consideration, it's the needle hardness.

He also said higher springs wouldn't hurt the new lifters and would cause less hammering on the needles when the valve closes because the softer springs allow the valves to bounce on the seat.

I also went to Schubeck and talked to him. The lifters look great but no one has run them on the street, just drag and circle track. The circle track racers have been using them for around 9 months.
David

Lowend
11-08-2004, 08:38 AM
So Comp is finally bringing their lifters up to the level that Crower and Isky have had for 10 years... ;)

David Pozzi
11-09-2004, 11:07 PM
The Crower lifters are not rebuildable, use a pressed in pin. Isky are rebuildable, have a snap ring. The new Comp Cams lifters have a wire ring with one tail you can grab with pliers.
David

ItsA68
11-22-2004, 08:41 PM
What happened to the Team Camaro Engine that someone mentioned that is using the Roller-X lifters? What is the problem with using these on the street? I am looking at the new comp cams street roller extreme engergy series of cams. They spec a spring with only 415lbs on the nose. Should that be enough spring for bursts up to 6500rpms when you're doggin' it on the street every once in a while :D It seems like the Crower street roller cams are recommending a lot more spring pressure. Would that imply that their lobes are a bit more aggressive?

Thanks for any feedback on these lifters...I am seriously looking at them if they will let me run more cam in my street motor.

~~fred

ItsA68
08-06-2006, 07:12 PM
I just wanted to let you guys know that if you were considering these lifters DON'T. I ordered, and paid for a set on Feb 15th '06. They charged my card the day I ordered them. As of today, Aug 6, I have absolutely nothing! I have been ripped. I have called, and called, each time I'm told Joe will call me back. When I actually have gotten through to him, he's told me that he would send them, and NOTHING has ever shown up. I'm out to the tune of $933. I can only assume there are production problems, or that the business is having massive problems. Don't waste your hard earned $$ on this business. You have been warned!

ProTouring442
08-07-2006, 03:57 AM
I just wanted to let you guys know that if you were considering these lifters DON'T. I ordered, and paid for a set on Feb 15th '06. They charged my card the day I ordered them. As of today, Aug 6, I have absolutely nothing! I have been ripped. I have called, and called, each time I'm told Joe will call me back. When I actually have gotten through to him, he's told me that he would send them, and NOTHING has ever shown up. I'm out to the tune of $933. I can only assume there are production problems, or that the business is having massive problems. Don't waste your hard earned $$ on this business. You have been warned!

Not to be a jerk here.... since he hasn't sent them to you, why don't you call your credit card company and deny the charge.

Just a thought.
Shiny Side Up!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"