Gas Prices. Please read!

[porschev8]

> GAS WAR - an idea that WILL work. This was originally sent by a
> retired Coca Cola executive. It came from one of his engineer buddies
> who retired from Halliburton. It ' s worth your consideration.
>
> Join the resistance!!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $4.00 a
> gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to
come down?
> We need to take some intelligent, united action.
>
> This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day"
> campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies
> just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt"
> ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to
> us than it was a problem for them.
>
> BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
> really work. Please read on and join with us! By now you're probably
thinking
> gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Now that the oil
> companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the
> cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take
> aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the
marketplace..... not sellers.
> With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need
> to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come
> down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their
> gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? Since we all
> rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an
> impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.
>
> Here's the idea:
>
> For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two
> biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are
> not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If
> they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow
suit.
>
> But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon
> and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out
> at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to
> reach millions of people.
>
> I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us sends it to at
> least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least
> ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message
> reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE
> MILLION consumers. If those three million get excited and pass this
> on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been
> contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE
HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
>
> Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all.
>
> How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to
> ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people
> could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
>
> I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you?
>
> Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you,
> please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from
> EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP
THEM DOWN.
>
> THIS CAN REALLY WORK.

[6'9"Witha69]

Old email, as evidenced by the $1.30 price. That is an over 3-4year ago figure. Funny thing is, after I filled up my truck this morning ($74.55 later) i was thinking of this exact scheme. I really wish it would come to fruition, but i am unsure how many people would actually do it and if it would make a difference. we can only dream and reminisce now.

[zuess4u]

> GAS WAR - an idea that WILL work. This was originally sent by a
> retired Coca Cola executive. It came from one of his engineer buddies
> who retired from Halliburton. It ' s worth your consideration.
>
> Join the resistance!!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $4.00 a
> gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to
come down?
> We need to take some intelligent, united action.
>
> This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day"
> campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies
> just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt"
> ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to
> us than it was a problem for them.
>
> BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
> really work. Please read on and join with us! By now you're probably
thinking
> gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Now that the oil
> companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the
> cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take
> aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the
marketplace..... not sellers.
> With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need
> to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come
> down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their
> gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? Since we all
> rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an
> impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.
>
> Here's the idea:
>
> For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two
> biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are
> not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If
> they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow
suit.
>
> But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon
> and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out
> at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to
> reach millions of people.
>
> I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us sends it to at
> least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least
> ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message
> reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE
> MILLION consumers. If those three million get excited and pass this
> on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been
> contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE
HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
>
> Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all.
>
> How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to
> ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people
> could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
>
> I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you?
>
> Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you,
> please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from
> EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP
THEM DOWN.
>
> THIS CAN REALLY WORK.

Nice thought but it wont work.

3 things need to happen, and it still wont be an over night thing.

1. State tax on each gallon of gas is .50 cents on average, if the states could trim a little that would help.

2. United States has more oil resources then any other country period. Let us drill, this hasnt happened in 30 years, what do we exspect. Oil companies have nothing to allocate their profits on sorta speak, well besides changing formulas for all the wonderful enviromentalits. We have created a monopoly for the middle East. Pay attention when you vote. The market is set by demand and middle eastern oil suppliers, not the united states.

3. Study and research before reacting, some e-mails you get. You will be suprised how sheep like we all can be. Find out the real reasons are gas prices are what they are. You will end up pissed off at envioromentalits and the politicians that pander to their votes.

The president (who ever it is) has no power to change this, its congress and all other senators and politicans that are in the mix. What really sucks, even if someone tells you their for this and that and Ill make sure we will drill for oil, in the next breath after their voted in, will go with the flow of the seats, just to remain in the house.

Its sad but its the way it is.

[camcojb]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp

[colt zantop]

yeah...thats an old email I remember getting a couple years back.....It never will happen and cant anyway...read the link above! :)

[Andrew McBride]

I agree with the post stated above, there is no way we can keep people from filling up with a certain station.

Gas prices are sky high because of demand.
I sometimes drive down the road and highways in the middle of the week for work and I see literally tons of cars out on the roads. I am thinking why in the hell are these people out driving, don't they work? Well...there are people who do a lot of mobile working and do have some traveling involved.

Another thing, People don't think anymore when they plan there days, they go run around down..wal-mart, grocery store, etc. just for 1 or two items instead of making a list and going once a week.
It is exactly like mentioned above, it is the demand. We are using more fuel, and crude oil is on demand so high that its driving the prices sky high. Katrina is playing an effect because that was oil we relied on, and still some of those oil refineries are not back to par.

I know I am a youngin on the board and my opinion may not be taken quite as important but this is stuff I do see.

Like also Zuess4 mentioned, politics play a key factor in our problems.

There are soo many variables to this problem. One thing is our auto manufacturers could step it up a notch and build vehicles that got better MPG. I know we are capable of producing 150-200 MPG because it has been done before!

[EFI69Cam]

Part of the problem is the asshat greenies have fought tooth and nail to keep refineries from being built.
They also have made it such that a natural gas fired power plant is the only one that will pass their ridiculess air quality standards, thank them next time you pay $200 a month for heating.

[WS6]

the ignorance of the american people is really starting to get to me. that and the politicians pandering to them. the oil companies have done nothing wrong. zero zilch. nothing. there are no windfall profits. there is no price gouging. what there is is a bunch of people buying vehicles they dont need that cost them too mcuh to own or maintain. everyone loves their SUV yet they dont need an SUV. the price will never go down unless demand goes down. it wont happen over night either. so if you dont like paying the price dont buy the gas and dont give me this crap of you have no choice while your driving a vehicle you don't need or cant afford. also if you support the idea of a windfall profit tax then congratulations you just caused gas to go up again. no company pays taxes on anything. they collect taxes from the end user. that would be you, the person at the gas pump with the nozzle in your hand.

me im just fine on my SV650 with its 40mpg. granted i fill up everyday because of how far i go, but its a hell of a lot cheaper than my car.

[RobM]

I have serious plans to run my camaro on E85... can any one say 14:1 compression? maybe ill even throw in a blower?

[porschev8]

:hmm: Well.... nevermind then.

[nancejd]

Maybe it's just me, but I wish the price would go up. Maybe then there would be a few less people on the road.

[nitrorocket]

Demand my ass, Most things that sell more then anything else can be sold cheaper. If I were an oil company and sold 100 gallons per year, I would need to charge $100k per gallon to get rich. Now if I sold 1 million gallons I could sell cheaper, 2 million gallons even cheaper!, and so on.
I think it is political, We are messing around in the middle east, and they are making record profits because there is absolutly nothing we can do. Period!

[Steve68]

10.00 a gallon, then I get that new H-D I want, then I can really justify a payment!!

Offshore drilling for one, new refineries two, it a political crap shoot, last year Bush opened up the ideas for congress to do something!!

[CAMAROBOY69]

Just buy a couple Saturns like I did. 30-40mpg. Or if your more daring get a motorcycle. Other than that, there isnt anything we can do besides live with it.

[surlyjoe]

There actually is a lot of drilling going on. As much as the oil companies can get equipment for.

But the real problem is that people will not live without their vehicles and auto manufacturers are not increasing fuel mileage. Instead we have this ridiculous hp war. The average fuel economy of vehicles has decreased in the last 20 years while hp has steadily increased. Don't get me wrong I love my hotrod but for normal driving I can live with a lot less power. Everything from the 345hp 300c to 200hp civics it is all part of the problem.

when I was in high school my parents had the good old 90 cutlass with the 3.1 135hp. That car did everything that 95% of drivers need. had enough power to pass etc. Of course it would get blown away by pretty much everything these days. Even the parents now have the sc regal 250 hp almost double what they had 15 years ago.

If manufacturers concentrated on economy and the public actually bought into it the gas prices may not come down but if your getting 40-50mpg it would be easier to take.

Sorry for the long post. But I think no one involved in the business of vehicles want gas prices to go lower or mpg to increase. And since every government gets major kick backs from these people they don't want to see it either.

[rob07002]

the ignorance of the american people is really starting to get to me. that and the politicians pandering to them. the oil companies have done nothing wrong. zero zilch. nothing. there are no windfall profits. there is no price gouging. .

You must be joking! Exxon posted record profits for 2005 36+ billion in profits, not revenue...... This is a record for any company ever. In the history of the world.

And there newly departed Chairman just received one of the most lucrative retirement packages ever seen. Something to the tune of a $400 million bonus, use of the corp jet, a rediculous amount of stock, and the list goes on.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1841989

Sounds like a windfall to me.

Please read a paper!

[ssdeuce]

Everything you own came on a truck at one point. If every truck would stop delivering the country would come to a halt. I bet then gas prices would go down. I picked up a 06 Mazda 6 4cyl last Friday because of the gas. It's a nice car but I averaged my first tank was 30mpg.:cool: That’s a big change from a Nissan Xterra.

[harshman]

Record profits are not a bad thing. It only makes you jealous. It is the free market and while I'm not thrilled to pay so much – it is what it is. Think of it this way, the little bottle of water that you're sipping on cost almost as much as the gas you pump. They have no EPA regulations, no limitations on refineries, no chance that when they drill they will not hit oil, no government regulations on distributions – nothing, all they do is buy some plastic bottles and tell you it is from a “spring” or r.o. and then charge the piss out of it. I hear no anger from anyone on this subject and what's worse – you live on water not gas.

Don't bet on something you can't control.

[rob07002]

Record profits are not a bad thing. It only makes you jealous. It is the free market and while I'm not thrilled to pay so much – it is what it is. Think of it this way, the little bottle of water that you're sipping on cost almost as much as the gas you pump. They have no EPA regulations, no limitations on refineries, no chance that when they drill they will not hit oil, no government regulations on distributions – nothing, all they do is buy some plastic bottles and tell you it is from a “spring” or r.o. and then charge the piss out of it. I hear no anger from anyone on this subject and what's worse – you live on water not gas.

Don't bet on something you can't control.

True, but I choose to drink bottled water on occasion, and if the price gets too high or if I feel its a waste then semi-free tap water is always an option so you don't dehydrate. The same cannot be said for oil. We need it to live peroid, like it or not its a necessity, and has been so for a long time and since there are no real alternatives right now we are being mugged.....

With all due respect, Profits are one thing, lighting your cigar with a $100 bill cause you can is another. With gas at the price it is, it hurts most middle class Americans, key word hurts. But many poorer hard working people who need gas to fuel their vehicles to get to work are being ramrodded, and it means one less meal rather then just dumping their SUV for a Honda or cancelling that day trip to the country......


Oh and BTW Exxon has yet to pay the fines imposed for the Valdez disaster....

[aonghus]

The reason the price of gas is what it is, is because the demand is inelastic, geographically in the United States we travel further to get where we need to go than most of the rest of the world. We use more gas, and we don't have alternatives reliable and plentiful enough to put any prologned dent in the demand for gas.

The market is also a price-searcher market. Oil producing entities (OPEC members, or coporations) sell barrells of oil at what they are valued at on the market. If demand goes up, historically the price will adjust itself until it is in equilibrium with the quantity demanded in relation to its price. Ever hear the news bulletins stating that OPEC is cutting production of barrells of oil by xxx quantity? Reduce supply when the quantity demanded and you shift the agregate demand curve to the right and price to the right.

I'm a college student. You know how I afford to drive my muscle-cars with 6.0L motors? I ride my bloody bike to work and back. Or I take that extra hour to try and utilize our TERRIBLE public transit system. It comes down to what you fellas have said, people are stuck in this mindset that they need a 7000lb Excursion / F350 / Ram 1500-3500 to drive to starbucks.

I fear the day gas hits $6.00/gallon. I'll be selling my cars because no amount of bike-riding will make up for it.

[Damn True]

Wanna blame someone? Don't blame oil execs. That's just business. If you were running the company and had a chance to make that much profit you'd do it.....or the Board of Directors would have your a$$.

If you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to protect our coastline from oil wells, if you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to protect ANWAR, if you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to curtail mining, if you have ever donated money to the Nature Conservancy, Earth First, Greenpeace or even the Surfrider Foundation......blame yourself.

There is enough oil underground within our borders to allow us to cut our imports by over 60%. Yet we continue to give a sloppy one to OPEC, Venezuela, Canada and Mexico by buying oil from them. How much freakin sense does that make? We have the oil, yet we pour untold billions of dollars from our economy into that of countries other than our own.

Beyond that, how much sense does it make to continue to send the aforementioned billions upon billions of dollars into the economy of Nations that would dearly love to see this one crumble. IMO that is akin to purchasing aircraft from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and tanks from Daimler Benz in about 1942.

[harshman]

Wanna blame someone? Don't blame oil execs. That's just business. If you were running the company and had a chance to make that much profit you'd do it.....or the Board of Directors would have your a$$.

If you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to protect our coastline from oil wells, if you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to protect ANWAR, if you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to curtail mining, if you have ever donated money to the Nature Conservancy, Earth First, Greenpeace or even the Surfrider Foundation......blame yourself.

There is enough oil underground within our borders to allow us to cut our imports by over 60%. Yet we continue to give a sloppy one to OPEC, Venezuela, Canada and Mexico by buying oil from them. How much freakin sense does that make? We have the oil, yet we pour untold billions of dollars from our economy into that of countries other than our own.

Beyond that, how much sense does it make to continue to send the aforementioned billions upon billions of dollars into the economy of Nations that would dearly love to see this one crumble. IMO that is akin to purchasing aircraft from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and tanks from Daimler Benz in about 1942.

yup!!!!

[6'9"Witha69]

Demand my ass, Most things that sell more then anything else can be sold cheaper. If I were an oil company and sold 100 gallons per year, I would need to charge $100k per gallon to get rich. Now if I sold 1 million gallons I could sell cheaper, 2 million gallons even cheaper!, and so on.That is the supply side you are referring to. Remeber that the demand and supply curves are 2 differently sloping lines. Remember that demand is the reason prices rise in the summer months when more people travel. Demand is also the reason Hotel rates, Airline fares and other travel related expenses increase in the summer months. Do not Knock the laws of supply and demand, they are part of the capitalist economy which helps make this and many other countries great. It is the reason so many people want to leave their own contry and come here.
The real issue is the gouging that occurs. Yes, we are very dependent upon foreign oil. For that reason the OPEC can cut supply which adjusts that curve right and viola, higher prices. It is the dependency which needs to be limited so that outside influence is mitigated.

What True said, right on!

[MarkM66]

I have serious plans to run my camaro on E85... can any one say 14:1 compression? maybe ill even throw in a blower?

I've read that 12.5:1 is about max compression on E85.

[Damn True]

The problem with E85 is that it only has about 2/3 of the thermal energy potential of gasoline. So while it costs less at the pump, you burn more of it.

[rockdogz]

Wanna blame someone? Don't blame oil execs. That's just business. If you were running the company and had a chance to make that much profit you'd do it.....or the Board of Directors would have your a$$.

If you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to protect our coastline from oil wells, if you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to protect ANWAR, if you have ever voted for a politician that pledged to curtail mining, if you have ever donated money to the Nature Conservancy, Earth First, Greenpeace or even the Surfrider Foundation......blame yourself.

There is enough oil underground within our borders to allow us to cut our imports by over 60%. Yet we continue to give a sloppy one to OPEC, Venezuela, Canada and Mexico by buying oil from them. How much freakin sense does that make? We have the oil, yet we pour untold billions of dollars from our economy into that of countries other than our own.

Beyond that, how much sense does it make to continue to send the aforementioned billions upon billions of dollars into the economy of Nations that would dearly love to see this one crumble. IMO that is akin to purchasing aircraft from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and tanks from Daimler Benz in about 1942.

I think I remember talking about this in history class (gimme a break, it was a long time ago...) and the teacher was saying one good thing is that when supplies dry up or get too expensive in the middle east, we will have our own mostly untouched supplies domestically. Doesn't really help our situation now, but ...

[rob07002]

I think I remember talking about this in history class (gimme a break, it was a long time ago...) and the teacher was saying one good thing is that when supplies dry up or get too expensive in the middle east, we will have our own mostly untouched supplies domestically. Doesn't really help our situation now, but ...

I've heard some "experts" say we will run out in 40 years..... Invest in alternative energy companies!!!

[Ralph LoGrasso]

the ignorance of the american people is really starting to get to me. that and the politicians pandering to them. the oil companies have done nothing wrong. zero zilch. nothing. there are no windfall profits. there is no price gouging.

How can you call it ignorance when gas prices have nearly doubled in the last year? Has demand increased 100%? Maybe in the immediate aftermath of Katrina, but not anymore. At one point in January, gas was back down to within 30 or 40 cents of where it was the year prior ($2.29 in LI vs. $1.99 (it was $1.79 at one point the previous year). Now it's at $3.19+ again. I'm no economist and I hardly know enough about supply and demand curves and all of the stipulations revolving around the current prices of crude and gas, but I know this much-- gas is too expensive. If you think there's no price gouging, you need to take a trip to Long Island. I can almost guarantee you that our current prices are 30 cents higher or more than the current prices in Georgia. Why is that--transportation? Okay, maybe. But how come I can drive down the street and one station's prices are as such:

87 - $3.05
89 - $3.11
93 - $3.21

and a half a mile down the road another station is:

87 - $3.19
89 - $3.29
93 - $3.45

Seems like price gouging to me. Be it true that this gouging is part of the end result (gas station) and not the refineries or oil companies, but it is still ridiculous.

And yes-- I drive an SUV, a 2 door Tahoe Sport. The reasons I own a Tahoe?

A). I need it for work.
B). When I bought it three years ago, gas was $1.67.

I hardly drive it anymore because of the prices, and if I do drive it, it's short distances. The Camaro gets better mileage and I've been driving that. Next step for me is a Ducati Monster (620). It's the only thing I'll be able to afford to drive in a year or two. :rolleyes

[Damn True]

Ralph,

After Katrina LSC (light sweet crude) was in the high $50 low $60 range, last summer it was in the high $40s low $50s. It's over $70 now. That's part of it.

Transportation is a factor as well. It costs more to transport gas in your area because the diesel the truck runs on costs more, and NY levies higher road taxes on vehicles carrying hazerdous materials than in rural GA. Same problem here in CA.

As for the prices down the street. Much of that is demand related. I'd guess that the station with the higher prices is:
a) closer to a highway off-ramp
b) closer to a major shopping area
c) closer to an upscale housing area

The amount of traffic, and therefore demand greatly determines how much a station can/will charge. Affluence of the surrounding area is a factor as well as one can only charge what the market will bear.

Think in business terms here. If you are running a business, any business lets just say a deli. You are currently charging $6 for a sandwich but Boarshead just upped the price of a lb of pastrami. You of course raise your price to cover your cost and maintain your margin. In doing so you find you are still selling the same amount of sandwiches. Hmm, you say to yourself, if they'll pay $6.25 maybe they'll pay $6.50 so you try it, and they do. So you try $6.75 and they do. So you try $7.00 and your sales drop a couple percent. But, since you have increased your margin it dosen't matter.

It's all about what the market will bear. If the market will bear $3 gas the stations can/will/should charge it. Altering that is a slippery slope we don't want to go down. I starts with Sociali.......

What can happen though is if their costs go down as a result in a drop in the price of LSC then they can maintain high profits AND our gas price goes down.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Ralph,

After Katrina LSC (light sweet crude) was in the high $50 low $60 range, last summer it was in the high $40s low $50s. It's over $70 now. That's part of it.

Transportation is a factor as well. It costs more to transport gas in your area because the diesel the truck runs on costs more, and NY levies higher road taxes on vehicles carrying hazerdous materials than in rural GA. Same problem here in CA.

As for the prices down the street. Much of that is demand related. I'd guess that the station with the higher prices is:
a) closer to a highway off-ramp
b) closer to a major shopping area
c) closer to an upscale housing area

The amount of traffic, and therefore demand greatly determines how much a station can/will charge. Affluence of the surrounding area is a factor as well as one can only charge what the market will bear.

The transportation aspect is true, but these stations are all on busy streets, within the same neighborhood (i.e. affluence) and within a square mile of one another.



Think in business terms here. If you are running a business, any business lets just say a deli. You are currently charging $6 for a sandwich but Boarshead just upped the price of a lb of pastrami. You of course raise your price to cover your cost and maintain your margin. In doing so you find you are still selling the same amount of sandwiches. Hmm, you say to yourself, if they'll pay $6.25 maybe they'll pay $6.50 so you try it, and they do. So you try $6.75 and they do. So you try $7.00 and your sales drop a couple percent. But, since you have increased your margin it dosen't matter.


Exactly. And to expand on that a bit, it's all psychological as well. When gas went up to ~ $2.50 a gallon or so, people were outraged; when it hit $3.00, they were shocked. After seeing gas at $3.00, $2.50 seems like a bargain now, doesn't it?



It's all about what the market will bear. If the market will bear $3 gas the stations can/will/should charge it. Altering that is a slippery slope we don't want to go down. I starts with Sociali.......

Laissez-faire.


What can happen though is if their costs go down as a result in a drop in the price of LSC then they can maintain high profits AND our gas price goes down.

I suppose $3.00 a gallon (and the outrage surrounding it) is an effect of opulence taken for granted.

[Jim Nilsen]

I heard that the amount of gasoline available is higher than it was but the big thing is the ethanol gas that we use. Since we all thought it would be a good thing to have ethanol in gas to help out the farmers and reduce the amount of gas we use it sounded like a good deal. Now we are behind on production of ethanol making a gas shortage that isn't real. In my town we are debating on letting an ethanol plant be built but there are opponents to it that don't want it. The intent to have more plants built is being stifled by legislation in local governments to build them. Without enough ethanol and the laws that are now in place making it mandatory to use ethanol in gas it makes for a dilema and a gas shortage made by the epa and local governments. Makes me wonder if some politions and gas producers didn't already know what was going to happen? Makes me wonder if we could make an amendment to the ethanol rule and let us all burn 100% gas when suplies go up past a pricing point? We did it to ourselves so we should be able to change it.

Jim, sorry to edit you - but you got a little too political there.

[harshman]

If you think there's no price gouging, you need to take a trip to Long Island. I can almost guarantee you that our current prices are 30 cents higher or more than the current prices in Georgia. Why is that--transportation? Okay, maybe. But how come I can drive down the street and one station's prices are as such:

87 - $3.05
89 - $3.11
93 - $3.21

and a half a mile down the road another station is:

87 - $3.19
89 - $3.29
93 - $3.45

Seems like price gouging to me. Be it true that this gouging is part of the end result (gas station) and not the refineries or oil companies, but it is still ridiculous.


Long Island, New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles – all have three stations in close proximity with different prices each – here's why they may differ:
a department store has a week long sale that advertises a shirt shirt for 20% off their regular price but still allows 5% profit. They sold twice as many shirts as they normally do but also had to double the labor involved. Did they make more profit when the shirt was on sell or at the regular price? (note: there are too many variables for math) The point is that while the price drops the labor/overhead will go up. You may have more customers but you are working twice as hard compared to working at an easier pace and making just as much. Theory was from a book I read “Nice Guys Finish Last”.

[WS6]

i dont need to read a paper Rob i understand economics unlike the journalists who attempt to write about it in an unbiased(that's laughable) manner. saying a company posts record profits means nothing. why? because its just a number you must put it with something. who says the quarter before they made 1billion less. then it wouldnt seem so unreasonable to make the same number only 1 billion more even if thats a record.

heres what you need to realize. oil companies make approx 8 cents profit per gallon. states make on average 45-50 cents per gallon. the federal government makes appor 18-20 cents per gallon. the gas station maybe 5 cents per gallon. still think the oil companies are the ones making windfall profits? the government has done nothign to supply you with fuel yet they get the largest profit off each gallon of gas because of taxes they imposed.

profit margin means everything. you must look at the profit margin not the profit. if a gallon of gas costs Exxon $1 to make and they sell it for $1.10 that means they make .10 cents. thats a 10% profit margin. if it now costs them $2 to make a gallon of gasoline then they must sell it for $2.20 to make the same 10% profit margin. most oil companies still have to purchase their oil they do not own the fields. so if the cost of oil goes up for them of course it will go up for you as well. oil companies have been making the same profit margin for the last few years. something like 4-6 years. no one cared then because gas wasnt expensive. neither was a barrel of oil. now that its costing more everyone blames the oil companies. the oil companies are making the same amount of money as they did before because the product they are suppling costs more for them to make/supply to you the consumer. you can not expect them to sell at a loss and still stay in business. oil companies are also the leading researchers in alternative fuels. why? because they want to be the first to market with the new fuel/product that everyone will want. take away their profits and they have no money to invest in alternative fuels, a better product, a cheaper way to produce the fuel, or any of the other positives that come about because of their efforts.

there is no gouging by the oil companies and there are no windfall profits. everything costs more for everyone. f you dont like it dont buy it. gas is a comodity.

[shmoov69]

Sorry, Jimmy, couldn't see a way to unpolitical-ize your post without completely removing it.

[rob07002]

i dont need to read a paper Rob i understand economics unlike the journalists who attempt to write about it in an unbiased(that's laughable) manner. saying a company posts record profits means nothing. why? because its just a number you must put it with something. who says the quarter before they made 1billion less. then it wouldnt seem so unreasonable to make the same number only 1 billion more even if thats a record.

heres what you need to realize. oil companies make approx 8 cents profit per gallon. states make on average 45-50 cents per gallon. the federal government makes appor 18-20 cents per gallon. the gas station maybe 5 cents per gallon. still think the oil companies are the ones making windfall profits? the government has done nothign to supply you with fuel yet they get the largest profit off each gallon of gas because of taxes they imposed.

profit margin means everything. you must look at the profit margin not the profit. if a gallon of gas costs Exxon $1 to make and they sell it for $1.10 that means they make .10 cents. thats a 10% profit margin. if it now costs them $2 to make a gallon of gasoline then they must sell it for $2.20 to make the same 10% profit margin. most oil companies still have to purchase their oil they do not own the fields. so if the cost of oil goes up for them of course it will go up for you as well. oil companies have been making the same profit margin for the last few years. something like 4-6 years. no one cared then because gas wasnt expensive. neither was a barrel of oil. now that its costing more everyone blames the oil companies. the oil companies are making the same amount of money as they did before because the product they are suppling costs more for them to make/supply to you the consumer. you can not expect them to sell at a loss and still stay in business. oil companies are also the leading researchers in alternative fuels. why? because they want to be the first to market with the new fuel/product that everyone will want. take away their profits and they have no money to invest in alternative fuels, a better product, a cheaper way to produce the fuel, or any of the other positives that come about because of their efforts.

there is no gouging by the oil companies and there are no windfall profits. everything costs more for everyone. f you dont like it dont buy it. gas is a comodity.


Trey, your math doesn't add up. If you say the oil co's profit margins are the same then they shouldn't be posting record profits in troubled times. If its costs the oild co more to buy and their simply passing that increase to the customer then profits would be relatively flat. What they do is when gas was say $1.79 a gallan at the pump it would cost the oil co say $.20 to produce. Now it costs the co $.25 to produce and gas at the pump is $2.79. A 25% rise in the cost to produce results in a 56% rise at the pump. More acurately 1 year ago when a barrel of crude was around $50 regular unleaded was around $1.79, now it costs about $73 a barrel, a 46% increase, and regular unleaded at the pump is around $2.79 per gallon, a 56% increase. Where's the extra 10% going

[rob07002]

i dont need to read a paper Rob i understand economics unlike the journalists who attempt to write about it in an unbiased(that's laughable) manner. saying a company posts record profits means nothing. why? because its just a number you must put it with something. who says the quarter before they made 1billion less. then it wouldnt seem so unreasonable to make the same number only 1 billion more even if thats a record.

heres what you need to realize. oil companies make approx 8 cents profit per gallon. states make on average 45-50 cents per gallon. the federal government makes appor 18-20 cents per gallon. the gas station maybe 5 cents per gallon. still think the oil companies are the ones making windfall profits? the government has done nothign to supply you with fuel yet they get the largest profit off each gallon of gas because of taxes they imposed.

profit margin means everything. you must look at the profit margin not the profit. if a gallon of gas costs Exxon $1 to make and they sell it for $1.10 that means they make .10 cents. thats a 10% profit margin. if it now costs them $2 to make a gallon of gasoline then they must sell it for $2.20 to make the same 10% profit margin. most oil companies still have to purchase their oil they do not own the fields. so if the cost of oil goes up for them of course it will go up for you as well. oil companies have been making the same profit margin for the last few years. something like 4-6 years. no one cared then because gas wasnt expensive. neither was a barrel of oil. now that its costing more everyone blames the oil companies. the oil companies are making the same amount of money as they did before because the product they are suppling costs more for them to make/supply to you the consumer. you can not expect them to sell at a loss and still stay in business. oil companies are also the leading researchers in alternative fuels. why? because they want to be the first to market with the new fuel/product that everyone will want. take away their profits and they have no money to invest in alternative fuels, a better product, a cheaper way to produce the fuel, or any of the other positives that come about because of their efforts.

there is no gouging by the oil companies and there are no windfall profits. everything costs more for everyone. f you dont like it dont buy it. gas is a comodity.


Trey, your math doesn't add up. If you say the oil co's profit margins are the same then they shouldn't be posting record profits in troubled times. If its costs the oild co more to buy and their simply passing that increase to the customer then profits would be relatively flat. What they do is when gas was say $1.79 a gallan at the pump it would cost the oil co say $.20 to produce. Now it costs the co $.25 to produce and gas at the pump is $2.79. A 25% rise in the cost to produce results in a 56% rise at the pump. More acurately 1 year ago when a barrel of crude was around $50 regular unleaded was around $1.79, now it costs about $73 a barrel, a 46% increase, and regular unleaded at the pump is around $2.79 per gallon, a 56% increase. Where's the extra 10% going you ask, in their pockets.

Regarding oild being a commodity, it has ceased being that years ago. It is a necessity like it or not. Would you be so cavelier if the topic was say air! This country and most around the world depend on oil for energy, commerce, transportation, to name a few. Some of the other examples give on this thread are luxury items that we make a choice to purchase. Want to charge $700 for pastrami, don't buy pastrami and get the bologna. With gas there is no such choice. Oil companies are not just regular companies produce widgets to the consumer. They are in the same league as airlines and utility companies. Why do you think the government is constantly bailing the airlines out. Do you reralize what would happen if the all went under and we couldn't fly? The economic impact would be crippling....

All I'm saying is that is bs that Exxon and the like flaunt their money when its hurting alot of people. Its like asking you neighbor to go for a ride in your new Vette or Benz when you know he's out of work and struggling.... You don't do it.... Same principal here...

I think if the oil companies reported flat or a slight increase in profits because they are hurting a bit too, it would be much easier to swallow. I understand finance very well and know that the CEo and board members have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders to make as much money as possible for them, but caps need to be put in place much like the way a utility company is regulated and prevents them from raising you electric bill to astronomical figures...


One more thing to add, Oil companies being at the forefront of research and development of alternative energy is LIP SERVICE pure and simple. Its lip service to the politicians in Washington and lip service to the consumer. We have been able to synthisize just about everything that at one point came from an animal or was organic, fom leather to rubber to wait a minute OIL!!! We have synthetic motor oil as a lubricant but can't do the same for fuel oil.... PLEASE....

When the last drop of crude spits out of the earth, then you will see an annoucement from big oil comming to our rescue with an alternative... But only until the last crude train leaves the station.....

[MarkM66]

The problem with E85 is that it only has about 2/3 of the thermal energy potential of gasoline. So while it costs less at the pump, you burn more of it.

True in a flex fuel vehicle. But if you made a strictly E85 engine, with increased compression, you could gain some of that lost efficiency back. Not sure if you could make it equel out though. That's over my head.

After reading the other post about the lack of ethanol production, making an E85 only vehicle might be a waste of time anyways.

[Damn True]

So you want to be mad at the oil companies? You may wish to redirect your ire elsewhere.

Interesting tidbit:

Since 1997 oil company profits have been about $1.37 trillion.

Wow, that's a lot huh?

But, in that same amount of time state & federal govts have collected close to $2.5 trillion in taxes. If there is any "gouging" going on here it's being done in Washington, not Texas.

Anyone who suggests a "windfall profits" tax is an utter buffoon. If you are running a business and hear that a bigger tax is coming down the pike is that going to inspire you to invest further in capacity or exploration? Nope. You'll stick right where you are so and wait for the demand to come back up and reset your margin.

Also keep in mind that there has not been a refinery built in the US in close to 30 years.

Furthermore, two of the three largest oil companies invested MORE money last year in capacity and exploration than they made in profits. Too bad they had to do it overseas because this country won't let them do it here.

Also keep in mind that the oil companies took it in the shorts last year when Katrina and Rita hit the Gulf Coast. Do you know who is paying for the repair and rebuilding of that infrastructure? The oil companies. Large and small businesses in TX, LA and MS can't say the same.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

f you dont like it dont buy it. gas is a comodity.


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Please! What's everyone going to do, work from home? Oh, wait...public transportation, right? That's an impossiblity or at the very least, a major inconveneince for many people living outside of major metropolitan areas. Gas is no longer a commodity, it's a necessary component of this country's and many others infrastructure. People need to get to work, plain and simple. Whether the blame is to be put on the oil companies, gov't, opec, or elsewhere is besides the point. People need gas to function in 2006.

[Fuelie Fan]

I'm really not seeing your point True. Yes, the oil companies have operating expenses, so what? The fact that everyone else is pointing out is that AFTER all those operating expenses that you keep listing, they STILL are posting insanely gigantic NET (cash in hand) profits. Katrina may have reduced those profits, but evidentally not by much since they are still at or near record profits quarter after quarter.

The government take, however, is turned right around and spent on roads and transit, it is NOT profit, you cannot compare those two figures at all.

I agree with Ralph, gasoline has transitioned from commodity to utility, or is near it. 200 years ago, "If you don't like electricity, light a candle" may have been a valid statement, but eventually that changed. The same has happened in the 100 years since vehicles took a foothold in this country. Times change. Petroleum is a necessity. Furthermore, I think making it a utility and regulating profits would MOTIVATE those companies to actually develop new, unregulated sources of energy that would remove our dependence upon petroleum.

[Damn True]

I'm really not seeing your point True. Yes, the oil companies have operating expenses, so what? The fact that everyone else is pointing out is that AFTER all those operating expenses that you keep listing, they STILL are posting insanely gigantic NET (cash in hand) profits. Katrina may have reduced those profits, but evidentally not by much since they are still at or near record profits quarter after quarter.

The government take, however, is turned right around and spent on roads and transit, it is NOT profit, you cannot compare those two figures at all.

I agree with Ralph, gasoline has transitioned from commodity to utility, or is near it. 200 years ago, "If you don't like electricity, light a candle" may have been a valid statement, but eventually that changed. The same has happened in the 100 years since vehicles took a foothold in this country. Times change. Petroleum is a necessity. Furthermore, I think making it a utility and regulating profits would MOTIVATE those companies to actually develop new, unregulated sources of energy that would remove our dependence upon petroleum.

Last time I checked we live in a country which DOES NOT restrict or control (beyond normal taxation) an individual company or industrys ability to make or lose money. Where do you work? What do you think the security of your job would be if the Govt slapped an additional 25% tax on your employer? Is that a road you REALLY want to go down?

Let's make one thing clear. Neither you or I have a right to purchase gasoline. If the market will bear a price of $2 per gallon or $7 dollars for that matter then that is what it costs. If you can't afford it, you can't have it. I can't afford $86k for a Z06 therefore I can't have one. If/When gas begins to cost more than I can afford I will have to use less of it because I can't afford it.

Yes the oil companies are making money hand over fist right now. They are also reinvesting the overwhelming majority of that money. As I said above, two of the big three spent more money last year than they made. They are increasing capacity and doing exploration. The bummer is that the hippies and other morons in the country have restricted that sort of thing in the US so that money is going into other countries economies rather than being recycled through ours. If this government does anything that restricts those profits by way of taxation those companies costs will go up and those companies will invest LESS. Which means the companies will have to recover revenue from somewhere right? Guess where? You and I.

Don't buy the balderdash that is being slung by the media and certain members of Congress. The real problem here is OUR Government and OUR populace. Taxation and absurdly restrictive regulation on the oil industry is THE problem.

The solution is to drop the restriction on new refinery construction (there has not been one built within our borders in over 30 years!), drop the restriction on nuclear powerplant construction (again, over 30 years since the last new one was built), drop the restriction on new oil exploration in the US, drop the restriction on drilling ANWAR, the Santa Barbara channel, TX and PA and drop the absurd formulation restrictions.

[KUL FIR CHICK N]

The profits are huge because the sales volume is huge. EVERYONE uses their product EVERY DAY. Take their profit, and divide it by the number of gallons we, the U.S., consume. Then tell me if it would make a difference if they reduced their profit.

"Record profits" is spin. Every company that is growing, and all should or they are failing, should post record profits each year.

Everyone wants to blame the president and the oil companies. Blame the speculators who have driven up the prices artificially.

Also, look into how much it costs to research and drill a well, and how often a drilling project comes up dry.

[WS6]

nope gas is a comodity still. it is not a necesity. next you going to try and convince me driving is a right not a priviledge afterall how would one get to work if they can't drive? nevermind they choose to live in the country where there is no mass transit. also nevermind they choose to drive a vehicle that doesn't get good gas mileage if they happen to. want to call it a very inportant commodity sure, but its still a choice not a requirement.

were never going to agree on any of this but the fact remains you must put the profits in context. if not all you see is this giant number. the oil companies have not made anymore money percentage wise last quarter than they did a couple years ago.

you know cars used to cost a lot less too. are you going to say GM or Ford has windfall profits if they post a huge profit number for a quarter? whose to say they havent been in the red for every single quarter of their existence before then? are you now seeing what i am saying about context? they simply are not making as much money as you are being led to believe. we have the cheapest gas in the world or very close to it. its about damn time we have to start paying more. maybe people will finally wake up and stop buying the trucks they use to carry air and the SUVs that they dont put anymore people in than they would a four door sedan.

and no Rob its not lip service that the oil companies are leading the way in research. do you honestly think some socialist university like UC Berkley would not tell the world if they made synthetic gas? i guess the oil companies have them in their back pocket then since no one has come forward with a sythetic fuel. the oil companies are not the only ones looking for alternative fuels, they just happen to be the largest. so if its possible the information is going to come out wether the oil companies want it to or not. huge coporate conspiracies do not exist.

im done with this and i have no problems with gas prices on my nearly 100 mile a day commute. they can go up and cause people to dump their gas guzzlers and buy something more economical and that would be fine with me. oh and i live pay check to pay check currently and im returning to school. so please dont think i have lots of money for fuel. i really dont. i just dont believe in bigger governement or government interferrence in the economy like this.

[shmoov69]

Sorry, Jimmy, couldn't see a way to unpolitical-ize your post without completely removing it.
Well, I did not think that it was bashing anyone specific in politics, just everyone in politics! I (obviously!) thought that it had some pretty good points, but then again, that is why I am not a moderator!:slap:
WS6- you are right that GASOLINE is not a necessity, but FUEL (read>OIL) IS. Tell me one thing in this country that is not affected by fuel? There is nothing. From shipping, to manufacturing to heat/energy. Those things are very necessary. Yes, I guess if you want to get super technical, we all could possibly live in a cave somewhere and make our clothes out of trash we find somewhere and not have to have fuel in any way. But that is not reality.
As I said before, it is so high because they can charge it and we will pay it, that is what it boils down to. But, I better stop now.......:injured:

[harshman]

True is preaching simple economics. Listen to it and not political spin.

[surlyjoe]

The fuel prices in the US are not even close to the cheapest in the world. I think venezuala is about the cheapest at around 8 cents a litre. I work over here in Libya and gas is just over 10 cents a litre by my rough calculation. You can fill a small car for around 4 bucks. All over the middle east fuel is ridiculously cheap.

There are of course many factors such as no tax on fuel and a very abundant supply but the price of oil is the same throughout the world. So I think it does come down to what the market will bear. Venezuala riots when they try to raise gas prices a cent a litre while Americans take a 10-15 cent hike and don't mind too much.

The taxes upset me the most as they are percentage based so the amount has increased a huge amount yet roads and infastructure are not seeing the benefit of these tax dollars.

[ProTouring442]

OK guys, here I go;

Oil companies are NOT reinvesting like crazy. In fact, over the past ten or twenty years, they have invested very little of their actual profits. They like to claim they do, but they don't. And when they do invest, please remember that frequently the federal government really does a lot of the investing either by some sort of property grant, or through huge tax breaks or subsidies.

Oil companies are a monopoly. There are only four of them, and they control every part of the process from production to retail. They even "compete" with themselves. Further, they control the retail price. They aren't supposed to, but they do through some very creative strong-arm tactics they apply to their dealers. Believe me, as soon as a dealer starts making more then a nickel or so a gallon, the dealer will hear about it from Exxon! I know, my father was an Exxon dealer for over 15 years. You want to know how crooked they are? Just look into the huge lawsuit the Exxon dealer have against Exxon for ripping them off.

They also strong-arm them through rent control. Exxon, in over 99% of the cases, will not let you own the property your station is on. They own it, then charge you a huge lease. Last I heard, in this area that was around $20,000 to $30,000 a month. Then, they give you "rent rebates." Do something they don't like, and all of a sudden they don't offer you this or that rebate. Great company.

Next we have the price. Adjusted for inflation, prior to today, the highest we in America have paid for a gallon of regular is around $3.00. This was back in the early 80's during those wonderful times of high inflation and the like. Interestingly though, adjusted for inflation, oil futures were around $90.00 a barrel! That's about twenty bucks more than it is right now boys and girls! So much for the "margin" argument. Further, that "futures" price is heavily influenced by the very oil companies. They aren't paying the $70 a barrel right now you know, that's a future price. Right now, according to the report on Fox News, they are paying in the range of $30 a barrel. Tidy profit, eh?

Let's face it; the oil conglomerates are hosing us. How we fix it I have no idea!

[rob07002]

nope gas is a comodity still. it is not a necesity.

Your right WS6 we'll probably never agree on this and with all due respect that is a very nieve statement...


its about damn time we have to start paying more.

Since you don't mind would you like my gas bills to pay also?


huge coporate conspiracies do not exist.


Wasn't it a conspiracy to hide the piss poor state of Enron's finances from the public.

I'm not just targeting oil companioes, there's plenty of blame and distain to go around and I'm not trying to start a pissing match, I just don't agree with some of your views. God Bless American, right. And just to add something did anyone see the new Bush proposal that addresses some of the thoughts made in the thread... Interesting


Oh and BTW they mentioned on the news the other day that restaurants in the metro area are going to start charging a delivery tax or fee due to the gas prices... So even if you don't drive, don't own a car , don't own a single internal combustion engine your feeling the pinch.... Tell me again how petroleum is not a nessecity...

[Fuelie Fan]

True is preaching simple economics. Listen to it and not political spin.

That's the problem, I think everyone on here with the "don't like it, don't buy it" mentality are oversimplifying the situation. As others have said, parking the Tahoe and driving the prius to work will not remove our countries dependence on petroleum to fuel our trucking, shipping, airline, energy generation, military, etc etc. It ties into EVERYTHING.


"Last time I checked we live in a country which DOES NOT restrict or control (beyond normal taxation) an individual company or industrys ability to make or lose money."

UTILITIES

Speaking of which, ask anyone from California how things went when the government deregulated electricity. No corporate conspiracy my hiney.

[zbugger]

That's the problem, I think everyone on here with the "don't like it, don't buy it" mentality are oversimplifying the situation. As others have said, parking the Tahoe and driving the prius to work will not remove our countries dependence on petroleum to fuel our trucking, shipping, airline, energy generation, military, etc etc. It ties into EVERYTHING.


"Last time I checked we live in a country which DOES NOT restrict or control (beyond normal taxation) an individual company or industrys ability to make or lose money."

UTILITIES

Speaking of which, ask anyone from California how things went when the government deregulated electricity. No corporate conspiracy my hiney.

Then I'm guessing someone besides myself smells Enron's ashes?

[Jim Nilsen]

About 1 1/2 years ago in Illinios the Governor reduced the tax on gas to lower the price. It alleviated the cost for a bit then they raised it back up. 30% of $1 is not as much as 30% of $3 and since it is a percentage and not a straight tax on a gallon the states are making 3 times as much for the same amount of labor put into it. Wages didn't go up so the cost of distribution is only deferred by the increase in actual fuel cost if it is involved. Whoever is involved in the higher prices by percentages and not the actual cost per gallon are making the killing off of us. I believe we should limit the taxes to cost per gallon and not % of the price and it would lower it by 1/3 rd the cost of the pump price. When the taxes were imposed the price and projected revenue were based on prices less than $1. I don't see my governor changing the tax or fixing any more roads than projected so windfall profits are going to states as well as the producers of crude oil. It will be interesting if the ethanol will be a big issue in the next couple of weeks both locally and nationally? Until then I kind of like the boycott to start a gas war and it will be easy for me since I stopped using Exxon/Mobil gas when they merged a few years ago. I never did like Exxon even before the Valdez accident.

It will also be interesting to see what happens to the price of F85 at the pump?

Jim Nilsen

[Fuelie Fan]

One thing I will say: I'm not counting on the government to actually fix this problem. While one side (Bush) is discussing the temporary removal of taxes to reduce prices, the other side (Congress) is talking about RAISING taxes.

Uggghhhhhhhh.

[MarkM66]

nope gas is a comodity still. it is not a necesity. next you going to try and convince me driving is a right not a priviledge afterall how would one get to work if they can't drive? nevermind they choose to live in the country where there is no mass transit.

So we should all move to NYC or other big cities so we can utilize their mass transit? Please, they're already over populated. And I guess we can just live without everything being built out in rural America. :usa:

[nancejd]

Oil is a commodity because it is an undifferentiated product, just like timber, coal, steel, etc. No matter how much you need it, it is still a commodity. I think the point some are trying to make here is that your "need" for it is generated in large part by the choices all of us and our for-fathers made. Americans have chosen to develop in an auto-centric spread out pattern, and now we are paying the price. If you don't like it, you need to change your choice, or go start your own oil company and charge whatever you want. In the end you can control what you spend for oil, just drive less. Nobody made you buy the car that you own, or decided where you will live. Personally, I'll pay through the nose before I live in a place like NYC, but that's my choice, not my need.

[gearbanger]

The oil companies have a monopoly, that is the bottom line. They collude to control and drive the price up. The gas stations, gas distributors, bulk plants, etc.... are not getting rich. The oil companies are obscenely rich, because they have eliminated the competition between each other and have agreed to screw everyone for as much money as they can get. Right now, we are in the squeese process to see see how far up the supply/demand curve we can go before profit starts to drop off. This is illegal. The government isn't doing anything about it because they can't, the companies aren't all American companies. We are screwed. Get used to it, or stop buying it. Those are your two choices.

[aonghus]

One thing I will say: I'm not counting on the government to actually fix this problem. While one side (Bush) is discussing the temporary removal of taxes to reduce prices, the other side (Congress) is talking about RAISING taxes.

Uggghhhhhhhh.

raising taxes would obviously increase price, then lower demand, prices on the market fall as demand falls.... decrease taxes price equilibrium would maintain for a while, until demand rose again from the $2.50 'cheap' price

its short term fiscal policy.... fix right now figure it out later

[P-A-I-N]

Damn True has it ....well...damn true...
Damn....thats good stuff True!!!....
I couldn't have stated it better....


<<Here is my prediction for the Next Twenty Years.>>

<<The United States will become the Next Oil Rich Producer...
(We have Trillions upon trillions of gallons in Oil reserves. By Far
exceeding all other Oil rich countries combined. It WILL be explored.
Its only a matter of time.) As infrustructures for Alternative Energys
come Online and are made available, you will notice a migration to
accommodate those alternatives. Its already being implemented as
we speak. Everything New in Technology takes tremendous long
term Vision, and requires a forward thinking philosophy which
enables those Ideas to come to Fruition. Not to mention Trillions of
Dollars expended.
<<My Opinion-Perspective would be that this Entire PRICE issue has
everything to do with Exactly as I just stated above. We WILL
become the Next Leader In Oil Production. Not tomorrow, or the
next day, but sooner than you might think.>>


<<The United Nations will become a New World Governing Body..
(Globalization has reached proportions relative to Ideas created and
Intepreted in its conception 105 years ago. Unfortunately, I'm not
as excited about this prediction. But all indicators predict major
advancements in an attempt to Control World Wide Terror Cells.

Lastly...
For every Regulatory Control mechanism you put in place, you
embark further down a Non-returnable direction of Socialistic &
Communistic Fate.
Too Regulate is too Control.
Free Markets perish.
We live in a Capitalist-Socialist Governing System. With 'Great'
emphasis on Capitalism. You'll want to maintain that Balance.


Sincerely,
Alan

[P-A-I-N]

Damn True has it ....well...damn true...
Damn....thats good stuff True!!!....
I couldn't have stated it better....


<<Here is my prediction for the Next Twenty Years.>>

<<The United States will become the Next Oil Rich Producer...
(We have Trillions upon trillions of gallons in Oil reserves. By Far
exceeding all other Oil rich countries combined. It WILL be explored.
Its only a matter of time.) As infrustructures for Alternative Energys
come Online and are made available, you will notice a migration to
accommodate those alternatives. Its already being implemented as
we speak. Everything New in Technology takes tremendous long
term Vision, and requires a forward thinking philosophy which
enables those Ideas to come to Fruition. Not to mention Trillions of
Dollars expended.
<<My Opinion-Perspective would be that this Entire PRICE issue has
everything to do with Exactly as I just stated above. We WILL
become the Next Leader In Oil Production. Not tomorrow, or the
next day, but sooner than you might think.>>


<<The United Nations will become a New World Governing Body..
(Globalization has reached proportions relative to Ideas created and
Intepreted in its conception 105 years ago. Unfortunately, I'm not
as excited about this prediction. But all indicators predict major
advancements in an attempt to Control World Wide Terror Cells.

Lastly...
For every Regulatory Control mechanism you put in place, you
embark further down a Non-returnable direction of Socialistic &
Communistic Fate.
Too Regulate is too Control.
Free Markets perish.
We live in a Capitalist-Socialist Governing System. With 'Great'
emphasis on Capitalism. You'll want to maintain that Balance.


Sincerely,
Alan

[gt1guy]

The reason gas prices are going up has been stated many times above..... it's demand. The US demand has risen, but not that much. We are still the biggest consumer of oil and gas in the world. China, on the other hand, is number two. But Chinas demand has risen something like ten fold in the past few years. That's the problem. I heard on fox news just last night that China inked a deal with Iran to let them explore new reserves (ie. Chinas going drilling in the sand). They also inked a deal with Nigeria for the same thing. If that's not bad enough, they offered the state of Florida billions and billions of dollars to open their waters and let them drill offshore. The news didn't say if it was a done deal yet, but it goes to show that China is more than willing to dump truck loads of cash to ensure there supply of oil. And if you think the feds would shut that deal down, Florida can do what it wants with its waters out to twenty miles offshore. Past twenty miles it becomes all fed. The states get a tax for any oil and gas recovered out to twenty miles. MMS still sets the regs. for the whole gulf, but the states make money near shore.
And China drilling of our shores wouldn't be any different than any other company. Look at who we have out there right now, if you think it's all US companies, you couldn't be more wrong. Lets see, the big players in the gulf........Shell---Royal Dutch Shell. They have the most deepwater platforms (just one platform, the Auger TLP produces 50,000 bbls of oil and 430,000 cubic feet of gas a day)........BP---British Petroleum. They have a few big deepwater platforms, and a ton of shallow stuff....Those are two government owned companies--and it's not ours.......ELF---I'm not even sure where their from, but it ain't the states. Chevron/Texaco is one now,and it's big. I don't think Chevron is from the states. I can't think of any others off the top of my head, but there's more. The small companies are from the states, most you've probably never heard of.......Anadarko,Marathon,Dominion,Ocean Energy,Apache,Forest Oil,Tetra,New Field...some of them are almost mom and pop operations. But all of them combined don't add up to a quarter of what Shell or BP has here. So another foreign company in the gulf is nothing special.

On a side note, when you hear BP and Shell saying how bad they they got it when Katrina rolled through, so they have to jack up the price of gas...It's total bull****. Katrina just barely hit the east side of the field. I work in the gulf oilfield, I'm a commercial diver.Don't get me wrong, stuff got wrecked. There are a few platforms bent or on there sides laying on bottom, I've walked on them. There are also a few pipelines that went MIA, I've looked for them and they aren't where they should be. But it wasn't that bad, and most of it has been fixed.

I'll shut up now
Kevin

[rockdogz]

Crude oil imports - top 10 countries:
Mexico
Canada
Saudi Arabia
Nigeria
Venezuela
Angola
Iraq
Ecuador
Brazil
Algeriahttp://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

I sure didn't expect to see Canada and Mexico up there at the top.

[surlyjoe]

There is a lot of oil in Canada. One of the largest deposits in the world is in northern alberta. Trouble is it is trapped in sand costs close to 20 a barrel to produce compared to under 10 normally. The amount of construction and development in that area is incredible. 70 bucks a barrel will do that. I am surprised venezuala is that far down the list though.