Major Mfr. planning NASCAR pullout

[Damn True]

Might be a bunch of hooey, but it might make for an interesting discussion so here it is anyway.


http://www.autoextremist.com/page3.shtml#fumes (http://www.autoextremist.com/page3.shtml#fumes)


Quote:
Thinking The Unthinkable.

Detroit. It has come to our attention that serious discussions are taking place for the first time in the conference rooms of one domestic manufacturer in particular on a subject heretofore unthinkable in Detroit. The subject? Pulling out of NASCAR. Yes, it has been mentioned before, and I have predicted it for months now - ever since the announcement was made that Toyota would be buying its way into the France family circus - but we have confirmation that not only are the discussions taking place, they're so far down the road that a timetable for a pullout has been created, taking into account the end dates of existing contracts with individual racing teams currently aligned with this particular manufacturer.

The fact that it has finally come to this is no real surprise. Several years ago, we pieced together evidence that each of the Detroit-based car companies were spending in the neighborhood of $140 million each, annually, on their NASCAR endeavors. That figure accounts for engineering and wind-tunnel work, direct payments to the teams, personal services contracts with the drivers, promotional programs, race sponsorships, advertising, etc., etc. In the Big Picture of things, when multinational companies are spending double that amount for the "privilege" of competing in Formula 1, that would seem like no big deal, but taking into account the factors that matter most to the Detroit car companies right now, that dollar figure is a very big deal.

And what are those factors? Beyond the obvious pressures being generated by Detroit's dire financial straits, one thing in particular is driving these "pulling out of NASCAR" discussions to critical levels - and that is NASCAR's full-on push and investment in its much-hyped "Car of Tomorrow." The COT is NASCAR's new "spec" car, and it takes NASCAR's template philosophy to its logical conclusions. The COT could easily be called a "NASCAR Special" or whatever the marketing name that the hype-masters in Daytona Beach will want to call it, because any connection to what the manufacturers are producing has been well and truly broken. I contend, of course, that the connection was broken long ago, but the Detroit manufacturers have been clinging to a shred of a connection and amusing themselves with the annual massaging of their various models' grille openings, nose shapes and headlight decals.

Until now, anyway.

Now, the realization has finally sunk in for one manufacturer, apparently, and taking everything into account and putting everything on the table, there's no longer the blind allegiance to NASCAR at this company, which is a seismic shift if you know anything about this town's slavish devotion to all things NASCAR on and off for the last 50 years.

NASCAR has been living large off the Detroit car companies' cash trough for so long now that they don't even care anymore, as all sense of reality left the NASCAR offices in Daytona Beach and New York long ago. The NASCAR attitude goes something like this: If a Detroit manufacturer drops out, it's "whatever" - because Toyota is stepping up to the plate. And if another manufacturer drops out, no worries, because eventually we'll just market our own NASCAR "Specials" and then we won't have to pay any manufacturer rights fees ever again.

But for one particular Detroit manufacturer it's no longer "whatever" - and messing with the sanctity of the NASCAR budget is no longer unthinkable - it's very real, very calculated and very imminent.

This Detroit manufacturer has decided that if it competes in motorsports in the future, it will only compete in three basic areas: 1. In production-based racing series that by rule and specification retain more than a passing resemblance to the cars they sell and the competitors they compete against in showrooms. 2. "Technical" efforts, in other words, engine programs for open-wheel and prototype racing series, but stopping short of Formula 1. And 3. Developing an effort to compete for the overall victory at Le Mans. Any other efforts, grass-roots racing, drag racing, etc., would be covered as the need and budget allow.

This particular manufacturer has finally come to the stark realization that their NASCAR involvement has done more for NASCAR than anything else. NASCAR exists for its benefit and profitability first and foremost - everything else is secondary to that fundamental premise. The relentless hype of NASCAR and its sponsors by NASCAR itself and its enablers at the TV networks has resulted in dramatically diminished returns for the participating manufacturers - and pretending that NASCAR's popularity has done wonders for these car companies in the showrooms amounts to the Big Lie. The fact of the matter is that the increase in the popularity of NASCAR over the last ten years has seen a corresponding decrease in the participating domestic manufacturers sales fortunes. And there's not one NASCAR-sponsored survey that can possibly suggest otherwise, no matter how hard they try to "cook" the numbers.

Immersed in a battle for the hearts and minds of American consumers, this manufacturer has finally taken the blinders off and decided that the blind devotion to all things NASCAR has run its course and now must come to a stop.

In other words, the $140 million that was previously earmarked for NASCAR, will be put to very good use.

Stay tuned, because we'll have more on this story in the coming weeks.

[colt zantop]

this could be interesting......I wonder how "true" this is. I just cant imagine toyota or another foreign company in nascar....last I heard, the big 3 were teaming up to keep toyota out of it????

[Damn True]

Toyota has deep pockets, Bill France has big hands. It'll happen.

[TonyL]

im guessing chrysler. They aren't winning enough, and are owned by a german company now that just doesnt care.

[Damn True]

I think a solid case could be made for any of the three. Particularly in light of the COF.

[69Nova]

im guessing chrysler. They aren't winning enough, and are owned by a german company now that just doesnt care.

Yeah thats my guess. But I'm not sure if I trust this info.

[Boyd]

It's GM.

[Bill Howell]

Toyota has deep pockets, Bill France has big hands. It'll happen.

A truer statement has never been made!
Just read Smokey Yunick's book. Screw the France's and their money grabbing ways.

[ZZ430]

It's GM.

That's the impression I get too.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

[colt zantop]

my first idea was GM also but the dodge point makes sense also. we shall see!

[landyacht67]

GM doesn't make much sense when you figure how much them & Toyota already have their hands in each others pockets. Dodge spent a LOT of money getting back into Nascar, so I figure they wouldn't ditch it so fast. My guess is Ford

Julian

[TonyL]

it breaks down further into GM and Ford having spent much time and effort developing V8 racing programs. Chrysler is just restarting this.

It's not uncommon that a major corporation dumps a huge amount of money into starting a program and then cutting their losses early.

Lemans? Who stands to gain from lemans? Ford GM or Daimler?
My guess is that daimler has a major interest in winning international prestige, and less so domesticly.

Either way, I see their point. When they started allowing these cars to run on different drivetrains than were offered in the showroom, it hurt sales. The days of win on sunday and sell on monday died.

Show these guys racing cars with the REAL powertrains they come with. then you'd see what's what on the track.

(imagine the front drive NASCAR...)

i think it'd be cool.

[Damn True]

Strong point in ref to Daimler Chrysler in terms of LeMans. GM and Ford both do pretty well internationally. I could see D/C perhaps holding a desire to expand Chrysler into an international brand. Where better to establish that then at LeMans?

[Bill Howell]

(imagine the front drive NASCAR...)

i think it'd be cool.


:barf:

I would hope it would force the issue and the manufacters would build some rear wheel drives again. Chrylser has that covered, the other two would have to step up.

[BuddyP]

The statement about Frances big hands is right on. I watch and keep up with Nascar a little but could care less if anybody pulled out of if they started hurting. I would come off and think Dodge at first but GM is in the middle of trimming some fat. Pontiac already backed out. I hope this does happen and would be great if 2 or all 3 of the big 3 would pull out, that would be great just to show the Frances that they don't have the almighty power.

[6'9"Witha69]

I say DC. GM and Ford already have entries in LeMans, I don'tr know about DC. All companies look to trim the fat, and if DC wants in at lemans, they have to start somewhere. I always thought it was funny that they had Chevy, Ford and Dodge on the cars. The only thing different, as mentioned in the articles, are the grilles and headlight STICKERS. Oh, and engines. The rest of the powertrain is probably very universal aftermarket stuff.

[scogin918]

The Big 3 are very aware of how Toyota throws enough money in order to dominate whatever series they enter. That coupled with the fact that Toyota owns the #1 car in U.S. sales is enough to make them re-think their programs.

[BonzoHansen]

They are going to the basic IROC model anyway, all the same. Once they all have the exact same body, WTF is the point? Is it really selling cars anymore?

Bring back Harry Grant and his Oldsmobile!

[Beige]

NASCAR has been boring ever since they implemented roof flaps. I honestly hope all the manufacturers pull out and find someplace better to spend their money.

[Matt@RFR]

NASCAR has been boring ever since they implemented roof flaps. I honestly hope all the manufacturers pull out and find someplace better to spend their money.

Like bringing SCCA Trans/Am back!! :banghead:

[Damn True]

Might as well change the name:

North
American
Spec-chassis
Auto
Racing

When they go to the COF or COT or POS what will make NASCAR different from the Rolex Grand-Am series? Spec chassis, Spec body, Spec wing, mfr engine.

[Whistler]

Interesting how you hear how boring NASCAR is becoming, yet it's more popular than ever.

[TonyL]

Interesting how you hear how boring NASCAR is becoming, yet it's more popular than ever.

It's that whole "jumping the shark" thing. Nascar is at it's zenith right now. I, like many other fans are getting bored with it. Noone is willing to step up and be the next "dale" nascar has no real figurehead any more.

[Whistler]

I never saw the attraction. It would be more interesting to me if there was more "stock" to the stock cars, like it used to be. That was before my time though. A lot of people are REALLY into that s**t though.

[scogin918]

It's the newness of NASCAR reaching into new markets. Eventually that will wear off. Take the last couple of races at California. The last race was a snoozer and it certainly wasn't a sell-out. As they move into the Pacific Northwest and New York, they move further and further away from the dedicated core group of fans that do watch week after week, year after year. Not to say that there isn't good racing in those areas, it's just a different fan base.

[WS6]

its an interesting story if its true. i dont care for nascar much at all, but i think they either need to go the way of IROC racing or they need to go back to the glory days when one manufacturer would come out and kick everyones ass simply becuase they built the better car.

as for NASCAR being boring. i totally agree. i do not see how people find NASCAR so exciting when you can watch speed world challange. did anyone see that race over the weekend? the one with Jerry O'Connell driving a CTSV. he passed the lead viper in a corner with less than a quarter of the race left to win. how freaking awsome was that to watch. he simply out braked him and went on the outside of a very tight turn to win. NASCAR has no chance of being that cool.

[white79bu]

I think it's GM. They have dumped a ton of money into the CTS-V, Colbolt SS and GTO.R. They are pushing more production based racing. Which I support 100%. I am just a big a fan of Dale Jr. and Tony Stewert as the next guy but NASCAR is boring. I only watch it when they run short tracks and road courses. If it is GM I support them and hope that Ford and Dodge pull out as well. Andy

[mikey]

Real racecars don't have doors or fenders let alone starters. They just have a chromoly frame with a all aluminum 410ci engine. only weigh 1200lbs or so with at least 800hp. Btw asphalt is for getting there dirt is for racin.:yeah:

[mpozzi]

I'm going to make a prediction here and that's this: In 10 years, NASCAR will either be defunct as a racing organization or will have gone the way of hybrid technology and will use this form of propulsion/regeneration in the track cars. I say ten years to be generous and give this time but my personal thoughts are closer to seeing this in five to seven years.

Presently, we've got only a few manufacturers that are using hybrid technology in a few of their current models. By 2010, almost 50% of the models in almost all car manufacturers will be offered with a hybrid configuration. NASCAR has always followed suit based on the Big-3's (and now Toyota) $$$ input and this is evident by the current "generic" body styling. Think about it . . . if NASCAR tries to keep their rules the same as they are now and the manufacturer's are thinking along another line, it won't work. The car manufacturer's will bail, move that 155 million towards something else that might sell cars in the "green" direction, and NASCAR will call it quits or the teams will be running the cars you see today.

Perhaps Vintage NASCAR?? Future sponsors will be either Energizer or Duracell.

Dave says I need to take my medication now . . .

Mary Pozzi

[shmoov69]

Btw asphalt is for getting there dirt is for racin.:yeah:
Dirt is what kids play in!! LOL!:moon: Naah, I like dirt racin' but then again, I like all racing!:twothumbs
No way that NASCAR will go away that soon, that is like saying that Vegas will go away! There is WAAAAY too mcuh money there for it to go away. It is getting boring though, too much like a cookie cutter.

[Jim Nilsen]

In 1981 I was talking to a friend about the year 2000 and told him by then there would only be one auto maker. I called it the World Auto Manufacture. WAM. I believed this to be true because of government regulations making it so it was impossible for individual companies to be able to meet regulations for saftey and EPA. Because of the cost that would arrise there would be no profitability in competition and the rules would make all of the cars too similar to compete. The writing on the wall was when Chysler started putting Mitsubishi engines in cars. Then GM teamed up with Toyota and Ford with other companies. There are no true blue car companies left because of the laws and the cost.

I see Mary's point being very valid in the future if the EPA being a player in the of what is going to sell. The EPA,OSHA,NHSTA and other government orgs might as well become sponsors and squash the the car companies below their level and priority of funding. After all ,if you don't pay to play and the people you pay can squash you, most will have to team up togehter to be able to make it all. In the end you end up with a kind of union of corporations that is trying to get rid of the unions that are killing them.

Paybacks are hell and failing to learn from the past will eliminate them all out of their own greed and losses to have it all for themselves. It will be the government that wins in the end. Not the consumer, not the car companies but the people who have the money to fund it all. Maybe the Frances have the entertainment part wrapped up for now but their future is getting harder to see any light at the end of the tunnel.

Now if we could just get everyone who matters to drink some wine and get to the point where I,m at right now they would start to make Pro-Touring cars on the assembly line and forget about all of the laws and just have some fun!!!! Who cares about making sense!!!!!!! Bartender make mine a double...:Alchy:

Jim Nilsen

[BonzoHansen]

I was at the NY Car Show today. Unless I missed something (entirely possible), I only saw 2 stocks cars: Dodge & Toytota (the Camry). So my guess is that narrows it down to GM & Ford

[EFI69Cam]

I'm going to make a prediction here and that's this: In 10 years, NASCAR will either be defunct as a racing organization or will have gone the way of hybrid technology and will use this form of propulsion/regeneration in the track cars. I say ten years to be generous and give this time but my personal thoughts are closer to seeing this in five to seven years.

Presently, we've got only a few manufacturers that are using hybrid technology in a few of their current models. By 2010, almost 50% of the models in almost all car manufacturers will be offered with a hybrid configuration. NASCAR has always followed suit based on the Big-3's (and now Toyota) $$$ input and this is evident by the current "generic" body styling. Think about it . . . if NASCAR tries to keep their rules the same as they are now and the manufacturer's are thinking along another line, it won't work. The car manufacturer's will bail, move that 155 million towards something else that might sell cars in the "green" direction, and NASCAR will call it quits or the teams will be running the cars you see today.

Perhaps Vintage NASCAR?? Future sponsors will be either Energizer or Duracell.

Dave says I need to take my medication now . . .

Mary Pozzi

With all due respect.. I doubt seriously that NASCAR will take on any new technology. All new cars for almost 20 years have been fuel injected, yet nascar still mandates carburetion.

Nascar might go away, but they won't go electric.

[ProTouring442]

With all due respect.. I doubt seriously that NASCAR will take on any new technology. All new cars for almost 20 years have been fuel injected, yet nascar still mandates carburetion.

Nascar might go away, but they won't go electric.


Especialy when you consider that Honda is thinking of getting out of the hybrid market to go with diesel instead.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Blitz]

its an interesting story if its true. i dont care for nascar much at all...
as for NASCAR being boring. i totally agree. i do not see how people find NASCAR so exciting when you can watch speed world challange. did anyone see that race over the weekend? the one with Jerry O'Connell driving a CTSV. he passed the lead viper in a corner with less than a quarter of the race left to win. how freaking awsome was that to watch. he simply out braked him and went on the outside of a very tight turn to win. NASCAR has no chance of being that cool.

I watched that race. Now THAT is racing to me. I love watching the Caddy's win it. Then you have my all time favorite American LeMans Series. The Corvettes have some better competition this year. Nothing is more exciting to me than cars that still look a LOT like street cars on a ROAD COURSE track. Never saw the appeal in NASCAR so personally, I'd be happy if it died out and more attention was given to Speed World Challenge or ALMS.

[Northern Goat]

. Noone is willing to step up and be the next "dale" nascar has no real figurehead any more.

Have you not been following Tony this year (Stewart that is). Seems like he is slowly taking on the figurehead role.

[mikey]

Dirt is what kids play in!!
Yeah but it sure is fun to nail the hammer on a 410 car. I guess I'm still a kid at heart:lol: NASCAR is starting to seem like wrestleing the way cautions seem to fly at the most opportune time:hmm:

[scogin918]

NASCAR has been known to influence the outcome of races from time to time when it was deemed advantagous to the sport. The best example is Richard Petty's 200th win. His engine was slightly larger than the rest of the field and NASCAR turned a blind eye. 200 sounds so much better than 199.

Tony Stewart is the closest to the driving style of the late Dale Earnhardt but it will be a while before anyone can take on that persona outside the car.

With all of NASCAR's faults, and there are many, there are still examples of great racing, guys (and a few girls) that can drive the heck out of a race car, and fantastic finishes. The last few laps of Daytona and Talladega still make me stand up with one arm on the TV yelling at the drivers like they can hear me. I still enjoy watching the rookies get their "Darlington Stripe" and love it when the "ringers" show up for the road course races to show the rest of them how to turn right. That's probably the reason people get so upset by the decisions NASCAR makes sometimes. They see it as a threat to something they love so much.

[bowtieguys]

I could care less what happens with the big three, NASCAR has been going downhill every year anyway.

[THX 138]

Nascar sucked since they brought in the Lumina.

[Bob Johnson]

I wish my business was going downhill the way Nascar has. They are the fastest growing sport. They make so much money it's a joke. I don't see them doing anything but growing by leaps and bounds unless a Bruton Smith gets disgruntled like Tony George did and pulls out and starts his own sanctioning body, and a few others join him. These guys are great businessmen. Nascar is big business. It works for corporate America. I wouldn't bet on Nascar tanking..It's my opinion that it will continue to prosper, even though it bores me to tears..

[ssdeuce]

Noone is willing to step up and be the next "dale" nascar has no real figurehead any more.

What about my man Tony Stewart? He is trying to but the big business doesn't want him to be. We need Metrosexual race car drivers so they can sell razors and hair gel. They don't want a real man.

[TonyL]

you like Tony Stewart?

just kidding.

The problem isnt with the fans, its with the drivers and each other. Dale was the spokesperson for nascar drivers. They all respected him. That "leader" is gone. Just ask Jeff Gordon, he's been asked many times to step up and fill that role. He doesnt want to. Doesnt feel he's ready. Here, read this. (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?p=389573)

[ssdeuce]

Tony Stewart is as close as your going to get to Dale Earnhardt. Like at Bristol when Truex was a lap down and screwing with Gordon and Stewart and Gordon were racing for position. Stewart spun him to get him out of the way. He had no business screwing with a lead car. I don't care how many Bush series championships he has won.

[Steve Chryssos]

I just wasted my time reading that article. That bozo trying to convince himself that he's important by publishing tabloid drivel. Speculation or not, he's trying to make that "news" seem unprecedented and controvercial. "...NASCAR denied the statement so it must be true...." Where's this guy from? Rachel, Nevada?
Major manufacturers have come and gone from NASCAR on numerous occassions thoughout the sanctioning body's history. Almost two decades passed with "only" two competing manufacturers.

-So how is it big news if that should happen again? It's not.

-And did NASCAR suffer under those circumstances? Not at all.

As me Irish cop brother in law likes to say: "Nothing to see here folks. Move along."

[J-Rod]

You guys see this yet?

http://www.toyota.com/html/movingforward/2006/april/fishing_team.html

I'm gonna call it now...

Toyota will dominate ALL sports everywhere by 2012.

And theeeeeeeeeen.....

Toyota and Google will battle for world domination in 2020.

Just remember, you heard it here first.

[WS6]

my money is google.

[nancejd]

I think Walmart will crush them all!:drive1:

[BuddyP]

'F' Toyota, the Prius, and their '07 Camry's with the bad tranny's. I'm proud to stick with my fine GM products.

[69 Hugger 396]

'F' Toyota, the Prius, and their '07 Camry's with the bad tranny's. I'm proud to stick with my fine GM products.

You said a mouthful brother! Foreign cars don't belong in NASCAR and I don't care where they're assembled. A Toyota is a Japanese car built by a Japanese company. I guess nothing's sacred anymore.

[jeff5347]

ok ok ok for the guys that state they hate nascar your sdaying tony stewart is the closest thing to Dale3. No way in hell is that even close to the truth. One the spokesperson has to have experience and wisdom. Stewart has some experince but has the " ican do whatever i want to you but if you do it to me then im gonna get pissed" thinking. And Stewart had no right to bump truex out of the way. Racing is Rubbing and Blocking. So if you cant get around him and hes holding you back sure bump them, but if you get bumped (Stewart) dont complain cause whats good for the goose is goodfor the gander. Tonys a great driver but not a spokesperson. i said it once and ill say it again. The #1 man in Nascar today and he is getting like is dear l dad is Lil E. Love him or hate him he is a good driver and well respected. Anyone watch richmond and Harvick got pissed that Dale tapped his back. Dale apologized and said im sorry. You would never hear that from Stewart except some excuse. And i 2nd 69hugger. Can we leave something to ourselves and not let every country in on it. No Japenese, German, Euro or any other piece of junk from someother country. But all major business pray to the almighty dollar no matter what their fan base says so Toyota will be in as it is with the truck series.

[indyjps]

im just tired of nascar, i do attend a race occasionally, only because its a large crowd having a good time, and drinking beer in the hot sun, but i could go to a baseball game and do the same thing, or the indy 500 since i live here. the focus is completely gone away from the make of vehicle with all of the devices to even out the competition, so why wouldnt the manufacturers pull out. the politics and b/s with nascar is getting stale quicker than the overpriced beers they sell at the track.

[Blitz]

I wish NASCAR would at LEAST pull themselves OFF the Speed Channel. 2 races were pushed off onto other channels this weekend (American LeMans, Formula 1) and I haven't even heard/seen anything about the other normal road racing series. I'm missing the Caddy CTS-Vr's beating up on their competition like the Vettes in the ALMS.

[Beegs]

As for the Frances making big coin, my hat is off to them. Sam Walton of motor sports.

Dale the superstar: he wasn't so popular in the beginning of his racing career. Someone will take his place. F1 couldn't go on without G. Villeneuve, it did. F1 couldn't go on without Senna, it did in the form of Shumi and his epic battles in the red cars.

I don't particularly care for Nascar but they have been firing on all 8 for some time. Are they at a peak? If the roots that feed the Nascar money tree start to die one by one IE: rival series, waning fan base etc... they will die no matter what they have to say about it. Good thing is motor sports fans will be looking to spend their hard earned coin somewhere and some person or persons will make the planets align and it will happen. My uneducated guess: they are not going anywhere anytime soon.

As for the article, I'll can that one next to the 100 MPG carb story until the horse's mouth says otherwise.