PDA

View Full Version : what kind of welders do you guys have



indyjps
10-12-2004, 04:23 PM
been looking @ millers and lincoln migs 220 volt, any particular recommendations from you fabrication experts out there. how much do i need and what dont i need. any other brands you recommend. thanks

harshman
10-12-2004, 04:38 PM
do you like ford or chevy - it is almost as simple as that. i've used both and i like them both. if i were in your boots, go to a couple of welding shops and ask them. To be honest, it realy doesn't matter. In my experience (if we're talkin' mig), make sure the wire that you use isn't junk. spend the extra $$ and get prime wire.

Matt@RFR
10-12-2004, 05:37 PM
Harshman, please don't make a habit of assuming.


To be honest, it realy doesn't matter

Huh? Lincoln is notorius for producing throw away welders. And when your Lincoln breaks or needs parts, have fun dealing with them. They honor their warranty only if their techs determine that it is a warranted part/problem. If it broke because it's old, you might as well throw it away. Lincoln's are less expensive than Millers.

Miller, on the other hand, carries replacement parts and manuals for some of their first machines, and will give you all the free tech support you can handle. If you break your Miller and it's your fault, they'll fix it or you can buy the parts, and you can rent another machine. If it breaks and it wasn't your fault, Miller will fix it, generally next to free, and they'll loan you another machine until yours is fixed (if you use the machine for business purposes). Just in general, Millers are the most solid machine, with the most solid support. Hell, they even have a forum on their website! I'll pay more anyday for those things. (Although, I did see an AeroWave catch on fire once! :pat: )

Hobart machines roll off the same conveyor belt that Miller's do. Same machine with some less expensive parts in them. They, too, have a forum, and is heavily used as a Miller forum also. Hobart's are pretty solid themselves, but will not last in an industrial setting.

The older ESAB's are ok, only used one of their 250 class MIG's, and was uninspired. Even with a Tweco 400 on it, it didn't feed very smoothly.

Thermal Dynamic's TIG's are good, but not as steady an arc as my Miller Dynasty200DX. No experience with their MIG's.

ALL OTHER BRANDS ARE JUNK. PERIOD.

This is personal experience in both light and heavy industrial, and home
shop environments.

With all that said, it really depends on what you'll use your machine for. The baby Lincolns will last a long time if you're the typical hobbiest weldor who uses it once or twice a month. I would still recommend a Hobart over a Lincoln, even in that environment.


spend the extra $$ and get prime wire.

Such as???

I use Lincoln wire for almost everything. Esab wire, I've found, has a rather mushy arc, and is junk for any out of position welds. KT, Harris-Welco, and Hobart wire is ok. Good enough for a home shop for sure. And if you're looking for aluminum wire, Alcotec is basically the only choice. Lincoln makes the smoothest dual shield wire by far (that I've tried), both mild steel and stainless. I've never run gasless fluxcore, so I can't offer any advice there.

Now, Indy, please tell us what you'll be using your new machine for, how much you'll be using it, and what you expect it to do. What's your skill level? These things will help us help you make a decision based on something other than assumptions.

itsals1
10-13-2004, 06:20 AM
Matt,most of the time I take every word you say about welding and welders the best advice in the world,but the coment made that "ALL OTHER BRANDS ARE JUNK"is just not so.I have a HTP 160 MIG and you can't hold anything agaist them,there GREAT WELDERS with even better customer service to back them up,IMO!!I've welded with the rest but I believe I have the best,IMO!!I really hope your not mad about my comment but I believe that if you tried one for yourself you would understand why I feel as strongly as I do.

Travis

Matt@RFR
10-13-2004, 06:56 AM
Travis, I apologize!! To be honest, I've never even heard of HTP. I will be looking them up today. Thanks!

B Schein
10-13-2004, 08:13 AM
I would like to back up Matts clam on miller parts and support I have an old miller 200 amp machine that I got for almost nothing and it all so came with a spool gun that has a 90 foot lead I have know Idea why they needed such a long lead for but I sure it probably cost a lot when it was new. I need some parts for the spool gun since it is old and had not been used in a long time I went to a local dealer and was able to get everything the next day. The spool gun I have is a spoolomatic I believe the ones are now up to spoolomatic 4 or 5s so it is very old as far as welders are concerned and I was still able to get pats try that with any other brand. O yeah ESAB pulsearc migs a junk we have about 15 of them at work that are burned up waiting for new circuit boards there Tig machines are decent. My favorite mig machines are some old Airco 450 amp machines we have at work these thing are older than I am (24) and still run grate unfortunately Airco was bought out by ESAB. For what you can buy new go with miller and you wont regret it.

Brian

Ralph LoGrasso
10-13-2004, 12:55 PM
I have a used Snap-On 110 MIG. I got it for $200 used with cart and bottle, after a little paint and body, it looks brand new, so I couldn't pass up the deal. I can back up the Miller comment as well, my Uncle has a pretty large body shop, and he swears by Miller. Almost every welder he has is a Miller. I only use my Snap-On for light work since it's a 110. I'm looking to buy a used Miller MIG (220), and a used Miller TIG(220).

Matt@RFR
10-13-2004, 01:31 PM
Brian, with a 90' lead, your spool gun probably came from a boat builder.

If it has a dual stage trigger, you'll want to keep an eye on your gas useage, especially with an older gun. I've heard about a lot of those leaking just enough to use a half a bottle of Argon overnight.

indyjps
10-13-2004, 02:48 PM
skill level, i can hold my own with sheet metal, i learned to weld in a body shop
fab work in need to learn more about setup but the welds look good. havent welded much in the past few years. i was talking to some of the welders @ work and started messing around with them and they were surprised @ the ability i had. these are guys with 30-40 years experience.
ill be using it for my own fab projects so its not going to get an extensive amount of use. im looking for a quality machine that i can use for the next 20 years and not have to worry about.
from what youve said about the miller it sounds like the best bet with the availablity of parts, ive seen the htp but didnt know much about them. the advice ive gotten from the welders @ work are tig tig tig, so that hasnt really helped much.
i really want to get a machine and start welding every piece of scrap i can find until im comfortable with it before i let loose on the camaro. thanks for the advice guys.

BRIAN
10-13-2004, 05:54 PM
To the above sorry but the HTP is junk. I have the same 160 machine and it can't hold anything against a comparable Miller machine. The arc is unstable and down right unpredictable. I have actually done side by side comparisons and there is no comparison. It has a lot of features but most are not needed. As far as customer service you have to be kidding. There are ZERO service centers and anybody besides Jeff will leave you beyond frustrated. Are you suppose to ship a 100lb machine back and forth?? Sorry but you hit a nerve with that one. I fought with them for months and got no where. Check the breaker rating VS the Amp rating of the machine. See a problem??? Hey anybody want a hardly used 160 machine $500 it is yours. Thats less than 1/2 price.

B Schein
10-13-2004, 06:29 PM
Matt, Thanks for the tip on the spool gun. But I am in the habit of turning the gas of as I am done. The welding the machines at work are less than predictable with leeks and if you don’t want to spend all day changing bottles around you learn to shut your gas of when you are done. On top of that the parts that I had to get for my spool gun was new O-rings and a trigger that had been broken off. The funniest thing about that welder is the spool gun lead is so long but the ground cant be any longer than 10 feet I guess I didn’t get the extension for that.

Brian

Matt@RFR
10-13-2004, 10:30 PM
Indy, from what you've said, I think you'd be plenty happy with a Miller 175 (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_175/) , or a Hobart 180 (http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/handler180.html) . I personally tested the 180 before it hit the market, and I really liked it. I think that 5/16" limit is alittle high, but you shouldn't be doing anything thicker than 1/4" anyway.






Check the breaker rating VS the Amp rating of the machine.
Brian, what are the ratings?



B Schein, a lot of bigger shops will use a big buss bar for their grounding needs, which is generally mounted overhead. You ground the machine to the buss bar, then ground your work to it. One less thing to trip on.

And if you're really into cleanliness and ease of use, you'll use a crane mounted wire feeder (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/wire_feeders/s_d_70_series_swingarc/). They're nice in general, but almost required for welding inside big-ish (1,000 gallons or more) tanks.

With the above setup, you can weld almost anything without ever moving the power source, and it makes end-of-day cleanup a snap.

MrQuick
10-13-2004, 10:42 PM
I like Millers too, I started with a Miller so I guess you never forget you first love...now I have a Century 250...I love it too. Wait did you hear that? I think Matt just spit up Red Bull all over his computer? :drool: I know its cheap...cost me $1200 2 years ago. I plan on getting another Miller soon. Hey Matt, can you teach me how to TIG in an hour and a half?

Norm Peterson
10-14-2004, 05:05 AM
www.fab-forum.com

I guess I still fall within Matt's definition of "hobbyist", and it's been a case of "so far, so good" occasional use with a 220-v Lincoln 155 for metal thicknesses ranging from 22 ga up to about 1/4" (but mostly 16 ga to 1/8"). I did have to tinker with the drive roll pressure a little in the beginning to solve an occasional drive slippage issue. As regards long-term durability, I'm not crazy about the plastic parts in Lincoln's drive mechanisms (the Millers use aluminum pieces).

Since the majority of my welding has to be done outdoors (insufficient room in a too-small garage!) I've been using Lincoln's flux core wire. It does spatter a bit, but so far nothing has ever needed to be re-welded. Incidentally, I keep my spool of wire covered with a plastic bag as a hedge against dust and the occasional high humidity/dampness.

Norm

Matt@RFR
10-14-2004, 08:22 AM
Vince, it was Mountain Dew and Frosted Flakes...and I'll be sending you a bill for a new keyboard. :slap:

An hour and a half???? Geez. I'll see what I can do. :)

Novacane
10-14-2004, 05:45 PM
I have a Lincoln 215 MIG, a Hobart 135 MIG and a Thermal Dynamics 185 TIG. A few of my friends work at fabrication shops where they are exposed to some kick ass equipment that none of us can afford. Both have liked my TD 185 unit. It is a potent little unit. I have been doing a lot of aluminum lately and it works great. For steel it also works great but I like the MIG for heavier stuff.

One thing I can say is that my welding got a **** load better once I started buying some better equipment!

BRIAN
10-14-2004, 06:24 PM
I ill have to check ratings as I do not use that much anymore and actually am trying to sell machine. I remeber it would shut itself off constantly untill they sent me another rating breaker. The problem with the welder is that it is dead inconsistent. No it is not me as I have had others also try. You can be welding the exact everything and stop to skip around and it just falls on it's face. Other times it will weld with the best of them all day long. I know I have gotte a lemon as I know somebody with exact machine that works great that I have used and is reason I purchased. Problem is the distance between HTP and myself which makes warranty useless. It just needed to many new parts for a welder fresh out of the box. New liner, gun, breaker, and repaired drive mechanism. How is that TD Tig??? It is sort of the super hero of low cost inverter machines?? I am considering that or the Miller 200 machine. Would love to save the money but do not want the same reliability problems again.

BRIAN
10-14-2004, 06:31 PM
Actually is that TD185 a inverter??

68protouring454
10-15-2004, 04:19 AM
what about the liner for the wire?? an sticky liner will cause all sorts of crap when welding from inconsistant to plain old crapy welds, anyway check into it, if you have not already
jake

indyjps
10-15-2004, 02:16 PM
i appreciate your suggestions guys, time to go shopping.

Novacane
10-18-2004, 05:50 PM
My TD185 units is an inverter. This is my first experience with TIG so it's the only machine I know. So far it has been great. My aluminum welding has come out fantastic for what I have been playing with. I was very surprised that I was able to do 1/4" aluminum as well as it did. Of course I had to preheat it but it got the job done with good heat penetration. I bought it for 1/8" aluminum and for building my turbo headers that are 321 SS.

My local welding shop, who I have given a ton of business to, told me that this units was the most state of the art unit in it's class. Everything is digitally adjusted which is nice for consistency. Highly recommended for average to medium fabricator. The next machine after this one was over $ 4500! :lol: