PDA

View Full Version : Got my DC controller working 100%!!!



CAMAROBOY69
04-06-2006, 06:15 PM
What a killer little system Jabin has. For those that dont know, this DC controller is way better than the standard relay set up to run the fan. It starts out just barely spinning as the temp increases. Then the speed progresses as the temp increases. Awesome little system. I truly put it to the test tonight. 30 minutes idling in driveway. 2,000rpm-6,000rpm and the more I abused my engine the faster the fan started spinning. I have on idea how it works but I like it a lot better than my power surgin relay.
Between the Hydratech Hydraboost and the DC controller this has been an incredible inprovement on my car in the last couple days. :cool:

CarlC
04-06-2006, 06:43 PM
Good to hear it's working well for you.

Here's a tip. Keep increasing the controller temperature setting until you get the engine temperature just over the thermostat opening temperature. Then, back down one temperature scale. This will allow for the least amount of fan-on time.

Mine is currently set to go on at 180*. At this setting the engine temp is about 185*, 5* above the thermostat opening temperature. When the controller temperature setting was lower the engine temperature never budged 180*, resulting in an over-cooling condition. With this setting, if the fan comes on at a stoplight it will soon stop since the airflow from moving will take over.

CAMAROBOY69
04-06-2006, 06:47 PM
I have 2 jumpers on right now and would like it to be even cooler but I guess I can keep experimenting. I was pretty sure I have it on the coolest seetting. Yeah it works well but I would like it just a little cooler.
My thermostat is 160*

CAMAROBOY69
04-07-2006, 03:56 AM
I have the 8,10 and the 7,9 jumpers on right now and according to my temp gauge in my car it never gets above 205.
I dont know how to get it to run any cooler than the way I have the jumpers set up. If I throw the third jumper on somewhere will that make it run cooler? I am not too concerned. THe only way it would ever get to 205 is if I was just holding the gas to the floor for 30 minutes. The 205 was the hottest it got and that was a very long time sitting in the driveway. In real life I would be moving every few minutes even if I was stuck in traffic. If you think the 3rd jumper will cool it even more let me know. And let me know where to hook it.
Mabey I could even relocate the probe? Its currently in the lower passenger side of the radiator.

CarlC
04-07-2006, 09:32 AM
If your engine temperature is 205 then the fan should be at full speed using your jumper configuration. I don't believe that there will be a 55+* temperarure drop across the radiator.

You may want to verify the temperature gauge calibration. Is it electric or mechanical? There are various ways to confirm the calibration. 1) An infrared temperature sensing gun on the upper heater hose 2) Temperature crayon on the thermostat housing 3) Candy thermometer inserted in the radiator throught the radiator cap opening.

Another quickie way is start the car cold and monitor the heat in the upper radiator hose with your hand. You should be able to feel when the thermostat opens since the hose will get hot. This is the thermostat opening temperature (160* in your case). Check the gauge and see if it reads 160*.

CAMAROBOY69
04-07-2006, 09:39 AM
The temp gauge is an electric Autometer gauge in the driver side of the block. I am almost certain it works correctly because if I just wire the Mark VIII fan on all the time then the temp stays perfectly at 160*. If I drive down the road it is 160*

Larry Callahan
04-07-2006, 11:30 AM
I have a similar system made by a company that is no longer around. It LOVE that controller. Does this new one cause the fan to whine? Mine does. It may get annoying some day but for now I think it's cool. Kind of like a high power dc motor you hear on some cnc equipment. The pitch of the whine also changes as the rpm does going away when at full rpm. I'm sure it's a result of the square wave pulse.

Also, does anyone know if it draws power when the fan is off? I'm pretty sure my unit draws a tiny bit of power all the time even when it's not running.

CAMAROBOY69
04-07-2006, 11:33 AM
Yes Larry I noticed that last night. WHen the fan is moving there is a high pitch whine. My car is so loud I dont even only notice the sound. However when the engine isnt running I heard it whining like a tire loosing air. When the key is in the acc or on position.
I have mine wired with the ignition so I hope that there is nothing drawing power with it turned off. I wired it so when the key is off, everything in the car should be off too.

CarlC
04-07-2006, 02:06 PM
Yes Larrry, same pitch but hardly noticeable. With the hood closed and the engine running it cannot be heard, and you've heard how loud my car is. It also carries through to the stereo even with the filter, though I don't notice it when "Girls Got Rhythm" by AC/DC is cranked.

Adam, at what gauge temperature does the fan start to come on?

gmachinz
04-07-2006, 02:28 PM
Your gauge is reading engine outlet temperature which is different from engine inlet temps. You need to verify temps going back into the pump to measure actual temperatre drop accross the radiator-that gives you an idea of heat dissipation performance. The controller does not respond to outlet temps. If your motor is building 55 degrees of heat then I would look into a higher flow pump to remove the coolant faster-that will allow the controller to read a higher temperature longer and it will adjust fan speed accordingly. It is possible to see a 55 degree drop across the radiator if your fan is powerful enough. The controller will see to that. -Jabin

CAMAROBOY69
04-07-2006, 06:37 PM
Jabin,
Do I have my controller set up to run as cold as possible right now?? Or can I add the last jumper and cool it down a little more?
CarlC,
I am not sure what temp the fan starts to turn at. I will have to verify that over the weekend. Tomorrow will be a huge day for me. I have a massive list of stuff to get done. I drove it again today in 40degree temperatures. When I came to a stop the engine temp stayed around 180-185 in stop and go traffic. I can live with that but I would like to see it stay even cooler since its only 40 outside. In the summer I know it will run closer to 205* in traffic. Still not terrible but I would like it cooler.

baskin
04-08-2006, 09:55 AM
www.dccontrol,com/troubleshooting.htm (http://www.dccontrol.com/troubleshooting.htm)


Larry, do you have one of the old psm units?

Larry Callahan
04-08-2006, 10:05 AM
Yep, it is a PSM unit.

Larry Callahan
04-08-2006, 10:08 AM
Ah ha, it does pull current but less. I think this may be what I need.

The VK-35 is a retrofit for the PSM Variflow. The replacement kit includes everything needed to easily replace the controller using your existing sensor and wiring. Added benefits include significantly lower off-state current draw, increased output current, added safety features such as multi-step over temperature control, and improved reliability.

baskin
04-08-2006, 11:42 AM
The PSM was a decent unit, it was just under powered. I originally designed it to run two 7A fans on my Shelby so 25A was about the design limit for current. What’s surprising is that there are still quite a few of them still surviving running Mark VIII fans, which are way past the limit of the controller.

The DCC doesn’t draw any where near the current when it’s off and actually has a better sound to it in that I tuned the oscillator so that it doesn’t have the low frequency pitch when it ramps down. Overall, it's a much better design.

CAMAROBOY69
04-09-2006, 06:06 PM
My car was being worked on most of the weekend and tuned. With the DC controller hooked up the engine was at 210* I really need to get the engine running cooler. HOW DO I DO THAT WITHT THE DC CONTROLLER???? Do I put another jumper on or what. I have only a few more days to get this issue resolved.

Larry Callahan
04-09-2006, 06:21 PM
The PSM was a decent unit, it was just under powered. I originally designed it to run two 7A fans on my Shelby so 25A was about the design limit for current. What’s surprising is that there are still quite a few of them still surviving running Mark VIII fans, which are way past the limit of the controller.

The DCC doesn’t draw any where near the current when it’s off and actually has a better sound to it in that I tuned the oscillator so that it doesn’t have the low frequency pitch when it ramps down. Overall, it's a much better design.


When installing the PSM unit I was told it had to be within so many inches of the batteries. With my batteries being in the trunk I didn't like having to running power from the PSM unit in the trunk to the fans in the front. Is this the case with your unit? I'd sure like to put it under the dash or some place up close. I'm sure that length of wire causes some loss. I did run wire much larger then needed but still. That's a long way to go for the temp sensor and the power.

CAMAROBOY69
04-10-2006, 03:27 AM
I think I am going to try and move my sensor to the bottom of the radiator. If that doesnt work I might end up running a bypass emergency switch so the fan will run all the time. I only have 4 days until the event and if I dont gen an answer then I will bypass the DC controller. Hate to do it but I dont want to run 210 at the track if not necessary. Hopefully the probe relocation will help.

Dust87ss
04-10-2006, 05:47 AM
I think I am going to try and move my sensor to the bottom of the radiator.

Try to get it as close to the radiator outlet as possible; this should give the controller the most accurate temp reading.

baskin
04-10-2006, 09:47 AM
Sorry about the giant fonts on the last post, I used word to check the spelling and evidently had the font size set to about a billion

The lower resistance cable helps some, but it's actually the inductance that causes most of the problems htp://www.dccontrol.com/faq.htm#batt but there's a filter available so that you can run the power from the back. http://www.dccontrol.com/componentsR1.htm

baskin
04-10-2006, 10:02 AM
On the Camaro, there's a couple of things that'll cause the problem, given your gauge is reading correctly. Placing the sensor on the front of the radiator will consistently throw off the temperature by 20 degrees. If it's very near the fan blade, the heat is drawn down the coolant tubes, placing it near the outlet moves it away from the blade. If the sensor is pushed in past the ridge, the fins don't contact the main part of the sensor, this will cause a delay in turning the fan on and will throw the temperature off.

If you need to bypass it temporarily, an easy way to do it is by connecting the AC input to either the ignition or a switch

CAMAROBOY69
04-10-2006, 10:15 AM
I have the probe on the inside/ back of the radiator. The engine side. Right now it is in the lower passenger side. However I think it is a couple inches from the bottom. I will move it tonight as soon as I get to my car to see if it turns on quicker.
So the 3rd jumper wont do me any good? No one ever answered that question.

baskin
04-10-2006, 10:36 AM
Which third jumper are you referring to? You can only place two on at a time to set the temperature. At what temperature does it just start to spin. When it starts, does it ramp up smoothly or does it ramp up hard and then settle down?

CAMAROBOY69
04-10-2006, 10:39 AM
There were 3 jumpers in the bag and I am only using 2. That answers my question. I guess I can only use 2 of them.
My thermostat opens at 160 and that seems to be when the fan just barely starts turning. Then around 190-200 it starts spinning faster. It seems to slowly gain speed. At 205 its only spinning about 50% then around 210 it spins faster closer to probably 80-90%

baskin
04-10-2006, 11:11 AM
Is the temperature changing over time? the earlier posts said it ran between 180 and 185 and 205 when the engine was at 6,000.

As far as seeing where the thermostat opens, that's not a valid way to test it. I have one customer who had tested his thermostat before putting it in and it opened at 180. He was setting up the first DK3535 kit with an electric water pump and was using the 10% U/D on the fan controller, he had an m8 fan and a high dollar radiator. With that, he couldn't get the car past 165, even revving the engine.

Thermostats don't hermetically seal the engine when they close, you still get some water flow, and if the inlet water temperature is at fifty degrees, which is where it probably is with the fan running WOT, it'll cool the engine lower than where the thermostat opens. The link that I posted earlier outlines a methodical way to figure out what is going on, and it's a lot faster to use that than to try to guess at what the problem is. You can get a candy thermometer for $2.99 at walmart and probably be done with it in less than an hour.

CAMAROBOY69
04-10-2006, 11:16 AM
160 on highway (thermostat temp)
180-185 in stop and go traffic since I am still moving once in a while
205-210 if it just sits still

baskin
04-10-2006, 12:16 PM
I'm assuming that this is a crossflow. Get the thermometer, start the engine with the radiator cap off and either disconnect the fan or tie the IGN input low. Place the thermometer in the radiator, start the car and note when the thermometer temperature change over time accelerates and when it slows down. This will tell you when the thermostat begins and finishes opening. Without the fan running, the inlet and outlet temperatures will match once the thermostat is fully open, so the gauge can be calibrated by waiting a minute or two after the thermostat opens and comparing it to the thermometer reading. Reconnect the fan and monitor the inlet verses the outlet temperature over the time that it takes the engine to get hot. If there's a significant change, then the engine is heat-soaking in that the oil temperature is getting much hotter than the coolant temperature. A drop in oil pressure as the car heats up will verify this. If that's the case, the correct fix is an oil cooler.

CAMAROBOY69
04-11-2006, 03:31 AM
I moved the probe right next to the lower passenger side inlet. Still runs around 210. :doh:
All the numbers are still the same as a post #26. I dont have time to mess with it. If its hot at the track I will just wire the DC controller to run all the time.

baskin
04-11-2006, 11:58 AM
If the sensor will reach the engine outlet side of the radiator, you can measure outlet temps until things are resolved. The operation won't be as smooth, but should still work pretty decent.

Something is definitely not right though if the m8 fan has to run near full speed to keep the car at 210 in 40 degree weather, on most setups, the m8 with a decent radiator will give about a 40 degree rise. At 40 degrees ambient, the fan should be running at about an amp in order to keep the car at 160.

If you're confident the temp gauge is correct, keep an eye on the oil pressure. Once the oil temp gets past a certain point, the pressure will drop off significantly.

CAMAROBOY69
04-11-2006, 12:28 PM
Just got off the phone with Brian Baskin. He just gave me some extremely helpful information that will help me resolve this issue instantly. For now I can move the temperature probe from the outlet side of the radiator to the inlet side. SInce the inlet side is much hotter it will cause the fan to kick on quicker which is exactly what I need.
He also stated that getting an oil cooler will probably get rid of the hot engine problem since I seem to loose oil pressure as the engine gets hotter. Thanks for the help Brian. I will try relocating the probe to the inlet side on thursday. :twothumbs

CAMAROBOY69
04-13-2006, 04:22 PM
I moved the probe to the inlet side of the radiator. It did lower the temp to 200 which is better than 210. It is about 2 inches below the driver side inlet. I think the car will do fine since I willl never be sitting still anyway. I might try to move it up right next to the inlet but not right now. I am happy with the way it works and it should easily get me thru tomorrow.

gmachinz
04-13-2006, 06:26 PM
Adam, have you thought about trying any cooling additives? I never used to give them a second thought but after having tried the -40 Below additive, it dropped my temps on average by about 25 degrees on a motor that ran about 220 with a stock brass radiator and 10.5:1 comp. We stock them but you might be able to find them locally-they're about $25/qt. -Jabin

engine
04-15-2006, 02:04 PM
When I installed my DC/MarkVIII kit, I did some experimenting with the jumpers. As of right now, I have the 7,9 and 8,10 jumpers in. Supposed to give a water inlet (to the engine) setpoint of 148*
With my 180* Hi-flow thermostat and Eddy 8810 waterpump, this brought my outlet temperature to about 186* idling all day long. Driving around and beating on the car brought it up to about 190* sometimes, but then it would go back down to 186*. So normally, my engine gives up about 38*
I installed the 13,14 "overdrive pulley" jumper, and now it idles at 180* outlet temperature. The fan moves relatively slowly all the time, at about 3.4 volts.
I did measure the radiator at the inlet and outlet with a Raytek infrared pyrometer. The radiator inlet indeed showed 179-180* and the radiator outlet showed 145* at idle, fully warmed. So the thing works and is pretty accurate.

The DC unit is designed to maintain a 180* water inlet temperature (to the engine) without any jumpers. When I first installed the unit without jumpers, it did just that. 180* out of the radiator into the engine, and my engine outlet temperature was about 215*. Installing the jumpers one at a time lowered my engine outlet temperature in steps of about 10*.
I'm guessing that if I drill a couple of holes in the stat to increase flow a bit, I would see less of a temp difference between engine in and outlets.
I'm using stock pullies (6.25 wp and 7.75" crank pullies, 1.24:1 waterpump overdrive ratio) and a 4-row copper/brass radiator.

here are pics of my installation. I made the shroud extensions from 18 gage stainless, and the top mounting brackets from 10 gage stainless. I have since replaced the "duct tape" edge guards with some real ones made of rubber with steel insets to hold shape.
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10876

CAMAROBOY69
04-17-2006, 06:41 AM
With the 2 jumpers installed and the probe moved to the inlet side of the radiator the engine temp was still around 195-200 at idle. After 20 minutes of track time it still stayed around 200*. Sometimes a little warmer. I guess I could move the probe up right next to the water inlet side of the radiator. For now im not too worried about it.