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WS6
10-11-2004, 06:53 PM
ok im pissed about this. the story is not BS. im in this field of work and i hate seeing crap work being done and people being screwed. so please read the link for the quick story and follow the link in the first post for the whole story on how they royally screwed a very good 455 up and screwed a very nice couple over. and if you want proof watch the episode where they built this car. all their destruction is right there for millions to watch. thanks.

http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14480

68LSS1
10-11-2004, 09:37 PM
I read both links plus more. I don't know what to say. It's maybe not Foose's fault or problem but personally I wouldn't want my name associated with this if it was me.

mdprovee
10-12-2004, 08:37 AM
This is ironic. I was talking with my buddy who is doing my bodywork and painting. He questioned the whole 7 day time limit, and the quality of the work. Everything done so fast, nothing has time to set, cure, or anything. He questioned what is happenning in 1, 2, 3, years down the road. I guess this explains a little.

Mike

TonyL
10-12-2004, 11:53 AM
Man, i saw this one coming. i wondered about the overheating thing too. i just figured they were gonna drop a crate motor in it, like they do everyone else's car. But that's the problem. This is just some regular persons car. not an insider's. If it were, it woulda gotten fixed i bet.

JAWS
01-06-2005, 02:58 PM
ok im pissed about this. the story is not BS. im in this field of work and i hate seeing crap work being done and people being screwed. so please read the link for the quick story and follow the link in the first post for the whole story on how they royally screwed a very good 455 up and screwed a very nice couple over. and if you want proof watch the episode where they built this car. all their destruction is right there for millions to watch. thanks.

http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14480Read your response. Thanks.

FYI... the show is on again Tuesday 1/11.

ProdigyCustoms
01-06-2005, 05:03 PM
It's been going on a while. When I read it a few months ago, my knee jerk reaction was that I would still rather have the car that came out of the shop with a bad motor, then the car that went into the shop that needed everything, EVERYTHING!
I would probably have shut my mouth, fixed the motor and been happy to only have $2500 in a Foose built celebrated car worth $50K? More? Bet ya if they were offered $25K for it, they would turn it down! Bet if you offered $25K for the turd they draged in, they would have burnt your fingers pulling the money from your hands!
With that said, Overhaulin is handing it, or was handling it, wrong.
I see her point, but I personally would not have bitched. Foose can come and take one of my projects, blow up the none original motor, and give it back done, with no motor! I would be thrilled!

Steve1968LS2
01-06-2005, 05:41 PM
I think the part that surprised me the most is how much a "free" car ends up costing. A lot of these people have to get a loan to pay the tax bill to the IRS. If they 1099 the value of your build at $85k then you end up paying about $18k in extra taxes. Not to mention that it puts you into another tax bracket.

Still I can't say I would be unhappy if they chose my car to overhaul :)

ProdigyCustoms
01-06-2005, 05:46 PM
I doubt they 1099 anywhere near that much, but I am sure she will let everyone know.

Steve1968LS2
01-06-2005, 05:56 PM
I doubt they 1099 anywhere near that much, but I am sure she will let everyone know.

They have to. It's like winning money in the lotto. How much do you think it would cost to have a car redone by Foose to that level? I would say $80k+ is a conservative number. So if they tax you at 25% that is $20k in extra tax you have to pay.

The same thing happens on the "extreme makeover" show where they rebuild the house. The occupants have to take a 2nd mortgage to pay the tax bill on the $200k value of the "prize". In the end you are still making out but the tax part is often a surprise to people.

Did you hear about the cars Oprah gave away? :)

ProdigyCustoms
01-06-2005, 06:04 PM
No, I am faily certain the labor is donated. She even says it supposed to be about $15,000 1099 for the parts value. I gave away a couple dozen cars in raffles. We were able to 1099 whatever we felt was right.

redsand
01-06-2005, 06:07 PM
I had thought that I read at the end of one of the overhauling shows that they just had to pay the sales tax on all of the items. I could be wrong.

Steve1968LS2
01-06-2005, 06:29 PM
I had thought that I read at the end of one of the overhauling shows that they just had to pay the sales tax on all of the items. I could be wrong.

Well I know that is not IRS tax code. Its just like when you win anything. It counts as income.

Hey, even if I had to pay $15k for a Foose car I would do it with a big old smile on my face :D

At my company I won $500 in points from our manufacturer (points could be turned in for prizes and each point was like $1). Well, I got 1099'd for $500.

I KNOW the story I told about the house rebuild show was right as there was a large story on it not too long ago.

boodlefoof
01-06-2005, 07:46 PM
Them blowing up the Olds motor... just the other day I was flipping and they had Boyd starting the Mustang Fastback project on American Hotrod... first thing he does when they get it to his shop is just blow the thing up... just for the hell of it...

First they find that cherry Mustang in a barn (right)... then they haul it out and say "hey, let's see if it runs." Cranks twice and fires right up (right...). So what do they do with an engine that supposedly turns right over after being in a barn for 10 years? Blow it up!

Sorry... senseless destruction of anything relating to old cars bothers me... if you want to blow up an engine do it to that little go kart thing you ride in Boyd!

Stu Seitz
01-07-2005, 02:41 AM
Sorry... senseless destruction of anything relating to old cars bothers me... if you want to blow up an engine do it to that little go kart thing you ride in Boyd!

word

ProdigyCustoms
01-07-2005, 03:45 AM
Look, the reality of the matter on this motor deal is:

1 It was not the original engine, and he has the original engine still.
2 Olds motors are not exactly real valuable unless they are dated and numbered for an original 70 W-30 car or something. It is not like they blew up the original, number matching, aluminum ZL 1 427, to the number 32 ZL 1 car! I am pretty sure I read it was a 72 455.
3 I have a friend that has spent all his discretionary cash, and a lot of his bill money, for 10 years trying to keep an Olds motor together. They are weak at best.
4 The car wasn't exactly very well put together to start with if it had limitations that keep it off the highway cause it had 3.90 gear. Big deal, the factories delivered cars with much deeper gears, and shorter tires. There is no reason in the world it shouldn't have been able to run on the interstate.
5 One overheat to 250 degrees blows a motor? I have overheated a bunch in my day, and never killed one yet. Coarse I wasn't in a Olds that was hyper sensitive! My guess is it had been overheated many times before, and this one put it over the edge.
6 Burn outs blow the motor? I am a big burnout guy, never hurt one yet! Of coarse I wasn't driving a hyper sensitive Olds.

Again however, with all that said. Overhaulin has seriously mis managed this, and should have cut this off at the chase. For the couple grand it would cost them to re ring and bearing it, they could have cut a lot of this. I think it would be a tiny investment for the show to preserve the public perception, as this story will continue to get around. It is called damage control. However, I sense there still would have been a big Internet chat from these people over something else, cause it just seems like they are the type. It appears she is enjoying her celebrity statues and enjoys the attention at this point. She say's many, many times they are very grateful for the other things they got, BUT......................
Anytime you put a "BUT" after anything, it negates the previous statement. Ask Doctor Phil!

I think I will make an offer to buy the car, I would be curious what they value the blown motored disaster, like it sits. Anyone wanna bet north of $50K wouldn't buy it? I would not pay that, but bet it wouldn't buy it! If so, how pissed could you really be?

In closing, if these people are so damn poor they cannot fix the motor, they really cannot afford to have this anyway. They should really consider cashing it in as they could obviously need the money. Sentimental value or not. If they didn't shoot of there mouth all over the Internet about what a piece of dung it was, it could have brought more money they have ever seen at Barrett Jackson in a few weeks.

myclone
01-07-2005, 04:37 AM
Look, the reality of the matter on this motor deal is:

1 It was not the original engine, and he has the original engine still.
2 Olds motors are not exactly real valuable unless they are dated and numbered for an original 70 W-30 car or something. It is not like they blew up the original, number matching, aluminum ZL 1 427, to the number 32 ZL 1 car! I am pretty sure I read it was a 72 455.
3 I have a friend that has spent all his discretionary cash, and a lot of his bill money, for 10 years trying to keep an Olds motor together. They are weak at best.
4 The car wasn't exactly very well put together to start with if it had limitations that keep it off the highway cause it had 3.90 gear. Big deal, the factories delivered cars with much deeper gears, and shorter tires. There is no reason in the world it shouldn't have been able to run on the interstate.
5 One overheat to 250 degrees blows a motor? I have overheated a bunch in my day, and never killed one yet. Coarse I wasn't in a Olds that was hyper sensitive! My guess is it had been overheated many times before, and this one put it over the edge.
6 Burn outs blow the motor? I am a big burnout guy, never hurt one yet! Of coarse I wasn't driving a hyper sensitive Olds.

Again however, with all that said. Overhaulin has seriously mis managed this, and should have cut this off at the chase. For the couple grand it would cost them to re ring and bearing it, they could have cut a lot of this. I think it would be a tiny investment for the show to preserve the public perception, as this story will continue to get around. It is called damage control. However, I sense there still would have been a big Internet chat from these people over something else, cause it just seems like they are the type. It appears she is enjoying her celebrity statues and enjoys the attention at this point. She say's many, many times they are very grateful for the other things they got, BUT......................
Anytime you put a "BUT" after anything, it negates the previous statement. Ask Doctor Phil!

I think I will make an offer to buy the car, I would be curious what they value the blown motored disaster, like it sits. Anyone wanna bet north of $50K wouldn't buy it? I would not pay that, but bet it wouldn't buy it! If so, how pissed could you really be?

In closing, if these people are so damn poor they cannot fix the motor, they really cannot afford to have this anyway. They should really consider cashing it in as they could obviously need the money. Sentimental value or not. If they didn't shoot of there mouth all over the Internet about what a piece of dung it was, it could have brought more money they have ever seen at Barrett Jackson in a few weeks.

I couldnt have said it better..

What kills me is that John Q Public doesnt keep in mind that shows like this are entertainment and are NOT a documentary or instructions on how to DIY. Personally, I wouldnt want any one of those ppl including overhaulin or coddington to touch a vehicle that I actually planned on keeping. Sure, Id let them have at any other car I own as long as there wasnt a "no resale" clause in the deal somewhere. Being a builder myself I cant see where any of these shows help their business one bit as far as ppl that want true quality and craftsmanship. Im sorry but I would NOT want a car from any of these ppl that was blown apart then reassembled in a few days that I couldnt immediately get rid of/sell especially after seeing some of the "workmanship" that goes on.

Lastly, I consider myself a hard core car guy and in the grand scheme of things hard core car guys are a small minority but we still know whats built "right" and what has been cobbled togeather then slathered in nice paint and shiney wheels. Take the paint and wheels off just about any car that has been on one of these tv shows and you now have a turd with some bolt ons and/or a crate motor. Anyone that can operate a check book can have that so whats the big deal :shrug: ?

trapin
01-07-2005, 09:13 AM
I sense there still would have been a big Internet chat from these people over something else, cause it just seems like they are the type. It appears she is enjoying her celebrity statues and enjoys the attention at this point. She say's many, many times they are very grateful for the other things they got, BUT....Anytime you put a "BUT" after anything, it negates the previous statement.
Prodigy.....that clanking noise you hear is you hitting the nail right on the head. I couldn't agree more.

I'm not sticking up for Overhauling for blowing the engine. However...this lady and her husband need to count their blessings. For the price of a moderate rebuild to the motor, he just got his car completely restored (and modified by the master). Like you said....they could blow up my 20 year old engine to restore my car for free ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!!. Small price to pay in my opinion.

So let me get this straight....I pay $2500 to have my motor rebuilt and in the end I get my car completely restored and modified with the Chip Foose stamp on it? Plus I get to be part of the Overhaulin' family and me and my car will enjoy notable noteriety for years to come?

Where do I sign up?

Smoke'm
01-07-2005, 09:20 AM
Is it just me???? I have been reading this thread and I agree with most comments one thing just does not make sense...is it really true they put a value of 80K plus or minus on one of these cars when done????
If so how is that a fair number when they say the stuff is donated to the project for FREE ...and I am sure if that is the case the Co.s take a nice deduct on there taxes for the parts...granted the person sent in a letter wanting there car done right??? how does a huge tax bill help them out...the car should be done for free with the only strings being available for photo shoots for the venders that donated time or parts...

Matt
01-07-2005, 09:23 AM
Interesting read for sure, I'll have to let it marinate before I have an opinion...but either way thanks for posting this.

ProdigyCustoms
01-08-2005, 02:55 AM
Smoke, I do not think Overhaulin has ever put a value on one of there builds. Steve mentioned the $85K number. I think what Steve was trying to do was use a place holding assumption number for the value of a Foose build if you dropped you car off to have it done, to throw some kind of math to it, to come up with a possible tax liability number for the sake of conversation. The $85K number he stated, I am faily certian is a number he generated for conversation purposes only. I think $85K is light, especially now with Foose recent additional fame. Of coarse I have known who Foose was for years, as many hard core motor heads here has also. Now though, Everyone knows who Foose is, my mom knows who Foose is! So, I bet his cost is even higher. Same for Troy. I also bet they will not 1099 for the labor, as they do not have to if they want to give the labor away.
As far of the real value of these cars. I know as well, or better then many, these cars are thrown together. Some things just cannot be done properly in a week. With that said, Some of the cooler cars they did would still bring some pretty strong money in the proper enviroment, like Barrett Jackson, to buyer that do not know better, or care. I would not be surprised if one of the Overhaulin cars showed up at Barrett Jackson this year.

Smoke'm
01-08-2005, 09:31 AM
Prodigy..I here ya..I have seen that number thrown around on diff sites as well.... it would be nice to understand how the process really works but I doubt any of the lurker builders dare come on a board and try to talk about the cars or what they do..it would get bad quickly I am sure...anything they said would get twisted around and they would be defending themselves rather than bs'ing about cars.
I think we all agree the cars are cool but who knows what they look like up close and the how the paint looks after all the 24hr body work shrinks back....like you say one will surface soon 4 sale and the critics will be all over it....

WS6
01-08-2005, 03:52 PM
prodigy your ignorant as hell about the olds motor, so stop taling out your ass about your one friend who didnt know what he was doing with an olds.

you know some people actually do value sentiment over money. so the engine wasnt the original, it still does not make it right that they did not follow the instructions of the owner and blew the motor. no 455s are not cheap motors or weak, yes they are valuable, but everyone is so hung up on chevys its rediculous sometimes. think a 455 is cheap try pricing them. any of them in need of rebuilds cost more than most SBC that are running and perfectly ready to drop into a car and drive away with.

have any of you been so poor that anything given to you is like a blessing especially something so great and sentimental to them as this car. you have no right to say they should be happy for what they got and just shut their mouths or that they shouldnt even have the car if they are that poor. that type of attitude is rediculous but your heads are so far up your asses that i bet you dont even realize it. is it wrong for them to be torn emotionally because this blessing of restoring a car they could never afford to have done on their own was laid at their feet, but they are hurt because these "generous" people damaged the motor and will not fix it? hell no its not wrong especially when people are stupid enough to walk around saying they should be happy for getting anything at all.

yes they should have done the right thing and fixed the car, but nowadays everyone is so hung up on image that the substance doesnt matter any more it seems. where have morals and ethics gone? guess they got sold so some person could put their "touch" on a car. thats lame

dont be so damn shallow that you have no ethics or care about anything more than your image. the car was damaged while in their hands and while disregaurding conditions set forth by the owners of the car. it is their(the shows) responsibilty to fix the damage they caused, period. and the couple deserve ever right to own that car and expect that the people responsible for damaging it will fix it. that is the way it is and should be, anything else is just wrong.

ProdigyCustoms
01-08-2005, 04:44 PM
Breath, Breath, that's it, nice big breaths, Guess I am not worthy to own my 2000 WS6 convert now huh, LOL!
BTW, my 79 TA I bought brand new in 79, with a 403, was a turd compared to my 78 I traded with a 400 Pontiac. In fact it was only a few weeks later I had my ass handed to me by the new owner of my old car. I have bought and sold a bunch of those 6.6 litre cars and put TA 6.6 motors in them cause the boat anchor Olds motor gave up.

zbugger
01-08-2005, 04:50 PM
Easy guys, don't get carried away here. Keep it civil.

ProdigyCustoms
01-08-2005, 04:54 PM
Don't worry Z, I dug out my bullet proof vest.

zbugger
01-08-2005, 05:03 PM
Don't worry Z, I dug out my bullet proof vest.

I'm not too worried about you, but I'm still watching. People need to play nice here.

Milow68
01-08-2005, 05:10 PM
Thanks Allen
Prodigy I have drive a few olds birds and they were big and slow in stock form. I hear you!
If I remember from the show the car had been sitting for a while not driven? :ssst: Could that have been because of the overheating problem which could have already have done the damage, but still ran? Usually the car get parked for problems that needed to be fixed (then not having time,money,garage and/or talent).
Just my .02
Brad

WS6
01-08-2005, 06:29 PM
again just becuase youve owned them doesnt mean you know what your doing. your still ignorant as hell about them. youve proved that by yanking them instead of building them. funny thing about the 403 is its not like every other engine out there. ive run my 79TA faster than most thought they were capable of with nothing more than a shift kit and curve kit in the dist. all that with a 2.73 rearend. they we only slow if you didnt know what you were doing. go here and learn unless your afraid to find out how wrong you are www.realoldspower.com and so what if you have an ls1 ws6 big deal. what the hell does that have to do with this discussion?

and reguardless of how you feel about olds engines that fact remains they damaged the engine and they will not own up to fixing it. doesnt matter that foose touched it. they damaged it they should fix it. ethics matter, morals are important but i guess they can be sold for the right price. after all foose touched it so its gold.

ProdigyCustoms
01-08-2005, 06:53 PM
Oh My God! Not a curve kit, and a shift kit too! I bet that thing really ripped second gear! Did you break into the 17s?
I wonder if you were buying a 79 TA, would you prefer a Pontiac 400 car, or a Olds 403 car? I also wonder why the 400 cars bring tons more money?
Look, none of this really has to do with this post, and yours and my exchange is stealing the post. Funny enough, we both agree Overhaulin should have takin care of this, it is the reaction, and the way the owners are handling it, I disagree. They are sort of looking a gift horse in the mouth.
I will not start with personal attacks like you about talkin out of ones ass, and one knowing what they are doing. However, you may want to check my resume before you judge!
I don't need yours, it is pretty obvious.

trapin
01-08-2005, 07:03 PM
Trey...take it easy. Your personal insults are violating this Message Boards code of conduct.

Agree to disagree and move on.

David Pozzi
01-08-2005, 09:31 PM
I'm watching this too.
Please avoid personal attacks.

I read some of the story on the Olds, I don't think I'd ever want to be "Overhauled"! :hand:

I feel really sorry for the wife who thought she'd help out her husband and now probably feels guilty. I allways wondered if those "experts" were really doing a good job or just faking it, I guess it's some of each.

JAY67CHEVELLE
01-11-2005, 06:33 PM
well its on again, and now I might have changed my opinion. The car did overheat on the ride there because the hose popped off, but it was put on the dyno and made good power with no problems after the ride there. Beats me, what does everyone else think. The other thing is when he called his buddy up to say the car was stolen he was talking how he gave it to someone to do work on it. Too much contraversy on this whole thing.

ProdigyCustoms
01-11-2005, 07:01 PM
After objectively watching the show in detail, I stand by my post. I did have an interesting thought right at the end of the show that had not occurred to me earlier. It happened when his buddy that was supposed to paint the car said "now you can use that money you had saved up for counseling". It made we realize, he must have had some money budgeted for the paint work his friend did not do, wonder if they could use that money for the engine repair since they were planing on spending some money on the car anyway?
BTW, did anyone notice the new monster radiator? Musta needed it.

trapin
01-12-2005, 03:39 AM
I agree. After watching the show, I pretty much stand by my opinion too. Also...now I see why his Wife is giving them so many problems, she looks like she might be a bit of a head case. I'm sure she loves her husband and I commend her for doing this for him. But she needs to look at the bright side...the car has been restored and is beautiful, something they would have NEVER afforded to do. What's funny is....the car was running fine on the dyno and when they started it in the shop. Yeah they beat on it beforehand....but then they rebuilt and cleaned his engine. Unfortunately something happened to the engine after the car was delivered. Who's fault was it? Who knows? But it's not worth alienating yourself from the Overhaulin' family. Spend the few hundred dollars for a new crank and some bearings and GET 'ER DONE!!! Hell....I did a pull and rebuild with my dad once when I was a teenager on my brother's '82 Cutlass. Pulled the engine on Friday night, rebuilt it on Saturday, and had it back in the car and running Sunday afternoon.

My biggest complaint about that episode is how little of the build-up they showed of his car. We didn't get to see any of the interior installation, undercarriage, engine bay, and we only saw a brief snippet of the suspension mods. It was worse than the Ian Zering Camaro episode.

David Pozzi
01-12-2005, 09:12 PM
I agree, they spent most of the time giving the owner a workover!
Know a good way to blow off a slightly loose radiator hose?

Rev the heck out of the engine.

Flynlo416
01-12-2005, 10:21 PM
All I have to say is that beating the crap out of his car on national t.v was just disrespectful. It remind's me of the 71 Challenger episode. What did he stop in that parking lot and do Holeshots for?? if I was getting my car "Overhauled" I certainly would not want the crap beat out of it first.

68protouring454
01-13-2005, 04:20 AM
if you call doing one or two brode's a beating, then you probaly never have driven a car hard, i mean come on, a loose hose is a loose hose although like david said they could of revved it higher than it liked, i would think a rap or ay of the problems would have been pronounced during build not after, they had to have changed all fluids, ie oil/anti freeze etc, and must of checked the oil also, and would have caught any of this, anyway i am with the majority, take the money you had for the paint and get the motor built, or use some of the enjunuity they used to keep the car all these years when struggling with money and find someone to help with rebuild, i mean ****, you have an ld muscle car, you gotta know someone who can assemble an engine, and for theat matter a local engine builder may donate his time if you put a sticker withhis name on car, cause so many people know the car, he would probaly just let them pay for parts or try and get some free parts from his supplier!! i would go this route personally, i bet alot of engine builders would do an assembly for free if they had there name on the car
they should try that
jake

HILROD
01-13-2005, 07:05 AM
On the show it said they got water in it. Would hydrolocking eat the bearings? FRANK

ProdigyCustoms
01-13-2005, 05:02 PM
Hydro locking would not hurt bearings, but could bend rods and cause piston damage, if they got that much water in it. I'll tell ya 2 stories about water in motors. I have a 91 Dodge Dakota, V8 4 X 4, that I bought in 95. I bought it with light water damage. Light water damage being water in the dome light,LOL! The truck reportedly spend 3 months under water, fresh swamp water, and then after being towed out, sat for 3 more months at auction while everything was settled before I could buy it. We took the truck home, pulled the plugs, drained all the fluids, did the expected drying procedures and fired it. It blew smoke and sputtered for a half hour or so getting better all the time. We changed the oil a few times till we got all the milk shake out. Pulled the return line on the trans and filled the trans while the strawberry nestles pumped out of the trans and converter. I drove it home that night, and it is still at my shop, the shop truck, beat to death with 110,000 miles since I saved it. Never did anything but tune ups and fluid service. I would sell it today with a warrantee!
Second story, we have, had, a second shop car, a street racer that belongs to an ex employee. He did not have a bunch of money and had a valve seat leaking a bit. One night at the bracket races he had a big smoke at the top end, when we check the oil it was over full about 4 quarts! The seat had got real bad and was pouring water into the motor. We were down to the semis, and in the money, and had a chance to win. it was a big race, and a big field, so we had time to add water, ran to the parts store around the corner, changed the oil, and ran 3 more passes making more milkshake. The motor was later pulled, and the short block sold to a friend, that still runs it today.
So long story short, a little water did not cause the problem in my opinion. And you know what they say about opinions!

Steve68
01-14-2005, 04:18 AM
And that motor runs high 10's If I'm thinking about the right motor, Do I have the right one???

ProdigyCustoms
01-14-2005, 04:07 PM
Actually went 10.50 on a little hit. Same one. It is in the red motion striped 67 Camaro with the stinger hood.

biggman100
08-02-2012, 07:57 PM
This reply is in reference to the amount of money being speculated about on here, that TLC put on the 1099 that the car is worth, after it has been screwed up, or as they call it on overhaulin, foosified. I personally have seen two cars that TLC valued at over 200k, and the owners both had to take out serious loans to pay off the taxes on the cars. One, the butterscorched chevy truck from season two, belongs to my friend john, who almost lost it because of the taxes on it, and the other was the Gambler 541, that i saw at a show in San Diego, and had a chance to talk with the owner about, before he sold it.

sniper
08-06-2012, 06:18 PM
SEVEN and a HALF YEARS!!!!!!!!! Holy moly, that might be a record of some sort.