New Geometery Spindles without the Drop???

[jwcarguy]

Hey guys, I did a search for this, but came up empty. Is there a spindle available with the new geometery ie. "Tall Spindle" but is NOT a hotrodder 2" drop for looks?? I have a 68 Camaro that is being redone to pro-touring from a stock restoration. I bought aTVS kit, Lee 12.7:1 box, but I don't know about the control arm/ spindle set up? I'm considering DSE or GW. I know that the ATS spindle is the hot setup, but the budget just can't handle the C4/5 brakes yet. I have the factory 4 piston setup and would like to keep that. Should I just do the G-Mod, my stock spindles and new control arms. I saw that the DSE LCA are a "dropped" spring pocket?? Or just keep the stock arms with Del a lum/ delrin bushings. What about "tall Ball joints" that I haerd about. This is a street car and I'm sorry to ramble in my confusion, but this is all new to me. Thanks for the advice Carl and all you guys!!!!

[1969 Mach Five]

I would love to hear what other people have to say about this. I am running a JL-8 setup on my 69 Camaro and want to keep it. Wasn't there a factory tall spindle made for racing use?? Does anyone know anthing about this? Alternatives?

[MrQuick]

The ATS tall version is the only one I would recommend. That couple with a stock lower and tubular upper is a nice package.

[David Pozzi]

Site Sponsor SC&C sells taller upper and lower balljoints to use on stock spindles. The ATS spindles provide the most agressive camber curve. Doing the Guldstrand mod with tubular upper arms for increased positive caster is a pretty cheap way to get the most bang for the buck.
David

[1969 Mach Five]

that SC&C stuff does look good. does anyone know about the factory taller spindles? I know they were made and the trans am cars used them extensively. does anyone reproduce them? how much do they cost used. Does anyone know about this
??

[1969 Mach Five]

Has nobody really ever heard of this? Okay. new question- can you run early corvette spindles on a camaro? they are taller and designed for more abuse...all that would be required is to flip the lower ball joint? anybody venture to take a guess?

[MrQuick]

...not worth the time. You can try to throw stuff together without extensive research and get lucky or fail badly.

[1969 Mach Five]

Really? How hard could it be? cut off the lower ball joint area of the camaro LCA, weld on the Corvette one? didn't smokey yunick do this?

[6'9"Witha69]

Seriously, stock LCAs with Del-a-lums, SPC UCAs (from SC&C of course) and the ATS spindle with touring classics or kore3 brakes (each ~$800 for good setups).

[David Pozzi]

Really? How hard could it be? cut off the lower ball joint area of the camaro LCA, weld on the Corvette one? didn't smokey yunick do this?

Yes I've heard of the GM tall spindles, a buddy of mine purchased a pair from Guldstrand long ago. Wish I'd gotten a pair! :pat:

With a taller upper balljoint and/or guldstrand mod, you are in the ballpark of where you need to be without welding on the spindle. I really would not recommend welding on a spindle! The forged steel spindle will crack like no tomorrow without first anealing it and then re-heat treat.

I made up a pinto spindle assy for a farm application, it was tough to weld without having it crack right in front of my eyes.

Smokey used a whole Corvette spindle that uses an inverted lower balljoint, so the spindle isn't as tall as it might seem.
David

[Tyler Beauregard]

FYI-

Jeff, the original topic starter of this thread, purchased the tall AFX spindle/C5 brake kit.

Tyler

[Marcus SC&C]

Good info and advice so far. The stock spindles aren`t totally bad,they`re light and modular which makes them easy to adapt better brakes to BUT they`re way too short. That puts the upper ball joints pickup point too low to have a proper relationship with the UCA inner pickip points and the rest of the front end. The result is + camber gain in bump (a huge no no),super low RC with a huge amount of lateral migration etc. The key is to move the pickup points. The G mod moves the inner ones down some and is a help but basically takes the geometry from "really bad" to "indifferent". Our Std. tall ball joints for that application will do basically the same thing. Our SevereDuty X-tall upper ball joints will do more than the G Mod and you`ll start to get some really usable negative camber gain in bump and raise the roll center about 3". It also reduces the RC`s lateral migration by about 40%. Not bad for a simple bolt on! Combine the Std. tall UBJ with the G Mod and you`ll get even more aggressive geometry. Don`t get carried away with the G Mod doing this (especially if the car is very low) or the FVSA can start to get pretty short.
The ball joints are bolt in. No sweat there. BUT (there`s that darn but again!) we`ve made such large changes in the geometry at this point that it won`t be possible to get a decent alignment out of it with stock upper arms. You may also run into ball joint bind issues. Without a good performance alignment you`re going nowhere fast. That`s where new upper A arms come in. Naturally I`m a big fan of the SPC fully adj. arms. They`re lighter and less expensive that most if not all of the competition. Their modular construction lets us assemble them in the proper length,offset and ball joint mounting angle for any application and the adjustability gives you a wide range of alignment options while keeping the geometry pure (you only move one pickup point per arm instead of 3) and using no shims.
Short answer: (heh you`ll almost never get that from me! Ha ha!), Is to use your existing spindles, put a Stage 1-Plus or Stage 2-Plus (2-Plus also correct about 80% of the factory bumpsteer) on there and get much better geometry and performance.
If you decide to upgrade to AFX spindle later on for even better geometry,bigger wheel bearing and bigger brakes Then you can upgrade and keep the same SPC adj. arms and the smooth/strong modular ball joints by just swapping out the X tall studs for std. height ones (takes all of mins.). :) Mark SC&C

[Marcus SC&C]

He won`t be sorry for moving up to the AFX spindles. :twothumbs Mark SC&C

[1969 Mach Five]

I said nothing about welding on the spindle. I am only wondering if you could flip the lower balljoint on the LCA and use UNMODIFIED corvette spindles. if you boxed the LCA after it would not be any weaker. Thoughts? Opinions?

[Marcus SC&C]

You can bolt almost anything to anything with some welding here and some grinding there. The questions is, will you benefit from doing so? You`re going to have to figure out the geometry yourself but it`s not going to work better just because the spindles are from a Corvette.
If you want to do it just to do something different and you have the knowhow to work all the suspension and steering geometry and make it work that`s cool. That`s good modern hot rodding.
But if you`re really looking to improve the geometry and performance of your car it`s certainly taking the long way around when there are simple,proven and inexpensive bolt ons readily available. Mark SC&C

[David Pozzi]

I said nothing about welding on the spindle. I am only wondering if you could flip the lower balljoint on the LCA and use UNMODIFIED corvette spindles. if you boxed the LCA after it would not be any weaker. Thoughts? Opinions?

Sorry I misread your post. Yes you can cut the lower A arm and that is exactly what Smokey did to put corvette spindles on a Camaro.

BUT I looked at this long ago, and while the vette spindle looks taller, it really isn't because the lower balljoint is flipped over. The spindle shaft is the same as a a camaro and the bearings too.
David

[Twentyover]

Could you use something like a monoball on the lower control arm and a tapered bolt through the upright, and drill the tapered bolt down through the vette upright, through the monoball on the lower control arm mounted under the spindle, and nut the bolt on the bottom of the LCA?