WTF! Is this PS pump bad??Emergency!!

[CAMAROBOY69]

I went to install my new rag joint and all this black fluid poured out of the PS pump that I just bought from Tyler. I tried calling him but I need instant feedback. Should I install this on my car??? Keep in mind I am also installing the Hydraboost at the same time and I really need to know if this will hurt anything. Black fluid doesnt seem normal to me at all. There are also tons of metal flakes in the fluid.
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[CAMAROBOY69]

Someone has to know something. :banghead:

[zbugger]

That's old fluid. The metal flakes may not be a good sign though. Don't hook it up to your steering gear yet. You really should flush the old fluid out and clean up the reservoir.

[Steve68]

Flush that box, old oil,

[Milow68]

The sparkles are coming from some place and my guess it is not good because after you hook it up more will come out...even if you flush it out. Just my .02 dealing with gearboxes at work.
Brad

[CAMAROBOY69]

I dont think I can justify putting this onto my car. You should see the metal pouring out of this. If I run my finger thru it the oil becomes almost white from the metal flakes. I havent even seen paint with this much metal flake in it. Looks like I will return this to Tyler and just buy a new one. I would hate to install this and have it ruin a brand new PS pump and the hydraboost. Just not worth it. Plus if I buy a new box I will have all brand new parts. New PS pump, New ps box, and new hydraboost. I will sleep much better at night knowing that I am not running a broken ps box. The last thing I want is to be at the track in April and have the box fail. That would suck really bad. :injured:

[Jagarang]

Thats your steering gear box not the power steering pump.

My 70 Chevelle steering bow had the same fluid come out of it when I tipped it over, but it didn't have much flake in it, just as a reference point.

[CAMAROBOY69]

Yes I had one typo. Its clearly the box and like I said above I have never seen that much metal flake in anything. Not even the last car I painted. And that car was blingo riffic. You can easily see the piles of metal flake in the 3rd pic. All those light spots are piles of metal.
Tyler is a good businessman and I am sure he will take this back so I can get a new one.

[Jagarang]

blingo riffic.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: CLASSIC! Deffinitly one to remember!

Sorry, I didn't notice the typo.:confused:

[aonghus]

looks to me like someone drove their PS box without PS for quite some time, the exact same fluid came out of my stock box when i replaced it with an AGR unit

[TitoJones]

The vehicle that came off of drove perfect. It was a restored car that has about 3000 miles on it since rebuilding, but it has sat for a few months. The fluid I poured out of the pump was mostly clear, with some slight dis-coloration on it. I'd flush the box and pump with some new fluid, and re-check it. Tyler

[CAMAROBOY69]

The vehicle that came off of drove perfect. It was a restored car that has about 3000 miles on it since rebuilding, but it has sat for a few months. The fluid I poured out of the pump was mostly clear, with some slight dis-coloration on it. I'd flush the box and pump with some new fluid, and re-check it. Tyler
Tyler you can clearly see in the pics that this is no where near clear. Do you want me to get the camcorder and show you what happens. I really dont think thats necessary. Look at the pics. THat puddle of black on teh floor is no where near clear. If I say its black then its black. I have no reason to lie. There are piles of metal flake in there too.

[TitoJones]

Adam- I'm just stating what I saw when I had it in my possesion. There is metal that is not covered in fluid all over your garage floor. I also refunded you 60% of the purchase price with the shipping included, which I can tell you from expereince no Ebay seller or salvage yard would ever do. I don't sell anything off an old car that I didn't inspect or use myself prior to listing it here. Tyler

[CAMAROBOY69]

Tyler, I appreciate the 60% refund. I was just under the impression that you thought I was lying. I took that offensively. Especially as much as I support all of your products and the products I have bought from you. I desperately needed this pump and would have installed it last night until I saw all of that. Mabey this is a learning lesson for anyone that is going to buy or sell a steering gear box. TURN THE BOX WITH THE RAG JOINT FACING THE GROUND. Then rotate the pitman arm or rag joint in both directions several times. After that turn it so the rag joint faces up. Then do all of this again. Mabey one direction only pumps a certain part of the box. I only know what I saw. Who knows mabey it will be fine for the next person that gets it but I dont want to risk damaging my brand new Hydratech Hydraboost or a new PS pump. I am sure Paul would not want that fluid running thru his hydraboost either.

[Hydratech®]

I am sure Paul would not want that fluid running thru his hydraboost either.


You are correct in that statement!

Used steering boxes can have all kinds of muck / fine metal particulate hiding deep down inside of them, and shipping the parcel across the country most likely helped to agitate all of the muck loose (into suspension in the remaining fluid). The ports where also probably not positively plugged, and moisture may have turned some of the fluid a distinct shade of grey. The steering box most likely did work fine when removed (though full of hidden muck) Atleast Tyler is working with you on this...

[bretcopsey]

Hypothetically speaking, what if one were to flush the box by connecting the pump on the pressure side and running the return line to a bucket? And once the fluid was running clear, hook up the return line with a filter before the pump?
:dunno:

This is assuming the box shows no other signs of wear/slop....

[CAMAROBOY69]

There is way too much metal that came out of that BOX. Something inside is seriously worn out. I already have another used BOX coming from Jake(gmachine68). It should be here by next week monday or tuesday.
EDIT: I meant box not pump.

[BADVELLE]

There is way too much metal that came out of that pump. Something inside is seriously worn out. I already have another used pump coming from Jake(gmachine68). It should be here by next week monday or tuesday.

With all of this said, why would you buy another used steering gear/box? You know the saying, burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me! Just joking, I don't want anyone getting their pants in a ruffle, just a joke!

Seriously, I would say a new one should be in your future. Anyway, I hope you fare better with this one.:fingersx: :fingersx: :fingersx:

[CAMAROBOY69]

With all of this said, why would you buy another used steering gear/box? You know the saying, burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me! Just joking, I don't want anyone getting their pants in a ruffle, just a joke!

Seriously, I would say a new one should be in your future. Anyway, I hope you fare better with this one.:fingersx: :fingersx: :fingersx:
Jake has been watching this thread and he physically did everything to the box that I told him to do and took pictures before sending it out yesterday. I have known Jake for a while and talk to him on a regular basis. Hes a great friend of mine and I trust him. He also gave me an INCREDIBLE deal on the box because he knew how bad I needed it. Believe me I was hesitant to buy it but I truly trust Jake.

[bretcopsey]

There is way too much metal that came out of that pump. Something inside is seriously worn out. I already have another used pump coming from Jake(gmachine68). It should be here by next week monday or tuesday.

Or maybe the pump that was attached to the box is what wore out and the box is still good. Either way, another used unit may have similar problems. A "rebuilt" from a parts store may not be good either. The only way to know for sure is to either buy new or have yours rebuilt by Lee, DSE etc-or take it apart youself.

[CAMAROBOY69]

As for the PS pump I will be buying a brand new one for my car too. I needed one anyway since Paul suggested a dual return nipple pump for my set up.

[bretcopsey]

Adam, just wanted to let you know I'm not picking at you. I have a used box to install myself, and was just wondering "what if" you tried flushing it out? I also edited my last response to include a .pdf attachment.

I hope it all works out for you!

[CAMAROBOY69]

I know your not picking on me. I just wanted everyone that was viewing this thread to check their pumps thouroghly before selling them. Like I said above, certain positions of the pump might not allow all the fluid or metal shavings to come out. Make sure you flip it with the ragjoint down then with it up to make sure everything is out. Then make sure you rotate either the pitman arm or the ragjoint all the way both directions to PUMP everything out.

[BonzoHansen]

How would one flush a PS box?

[Hydratech®]

If you are suspicious of a steering box possibly being full of muck, you could connect up the high pressure line from the pump to the steering box, then run the low pressure return line from the steering box into a 5 gallon bucket via a cheap store bought section of 3/8 rubber hose (cap off the low pressure return nipple on the ps fluid reservoir). You will also need a substantial amount of fluid to run through the system, in some cases up to 10-12 quarts (major waste of fluid though). What you do then is raise the front wheels off the ground securely, then fill the ps pump all the way up to the very top. Then fire up the engine only briefly - maybe 2-3 seconds only. You will then find that the hose running into your bucket has puked out some rather nasty puss, and has also very quickly sucked the ps pump dry within the short run time. The above procedure pushes clean fluid through the steering box without allowing any muck to possibly return back to the ps pump. Repeat this procedure until the clean new fluid is not changing color much when entering the bucket. Once you see reasonably clear fluid, you will now fill the pump again, but instead of running the engine this time you will now hop in the vehicle and steer full right to full left about 10 times (with the engine off). This is going to help agitate some of the muck loose inside of the box. Now have a helper ready to top off the ps pump as needed (be VERY careful of moving parts when running please - especially flex fan equipped rides!) Start the engine up and cycle the steering back and forth while your helper is continuously feeding the pump fresh fluid at the same time. Do this until the fluid runs absolutely clean and clear out of the hose dumping into your bucket.

Now temporarily install a ps fluid filter (AC Delco '95-'99 Cadillac FWD applications or Magnafine or suitable equivalent) into this temporary long low pressure return line. Connect your long temporary return line hose back to the ps pump low pressure return nipple on the reservoir. Fill the pump up, start the engine up and let it idle for a few moments. Shut the engine down, lower the vehicle back down onto the ground, recheck your fluid level. With the front wheels on the ground, start the engine and now rev it up a few times, then return to idle. Now that it is hot and idling, cycle the steering back and forth about 25 times, and bounce it off the steering stops a few times to fully load / pressurize the box. At this point, you have probably mowed though untold amounts of fluid, and *should* be seeing nothing but clean and clear fluid in the reservoir. If you are still seeing discoloration, repeat all of the above steps all over again until you see nothing but clean / clear fluid.

If you are still concerned about further possible muck still hiding in the system, (that could contaminate and hurt your ps pump), you may replumb the system to run a filter between the low pressure return port of the steering box and the low pressure return nipple on the reservoir for about a 100 miles of road use. Whatever muck may still be hiding in the box will definitely come out within a 100 miles of actual road use. Once you have completely and conclusively arrived at a perfectly clean ps system, you may remove the filter and carry on normally (with no filter as intended by the factory). Or? You could retain the use of a filter long term, though this will be your choice. Once the system is clean, there really is no direct need for a filter (as the factory didn't install one either), though it arguable that it should have one - you be the judge. The reason why we don't particularly recommend ps filters is because they are generally somewhat restrictive to flow, which can cause strain on the ps pump = heat. Of course a trick piece like the Lee Manufacturing billet filter can be permanently installed, as you can periodically take it apart and clean it out / inspect it + it flows like Niagara Falls...

We have observed that some automotive service centers and quick lube shops are now starting to offer PS system flush services. This is excellent news, as the PS systems are the most neglected subsystems, usually never being serviced until it is WAY too late (failure has already occurred). The same basic positive displacement/ replacement technology that has been succesfully used to perform transmission fluid flushes over the years has now also been applied to PS systems these days also, and is a wise investment to consider on ANY vehicle. Do it at home or have it done by a shop when the fluid starts to discolor, as the steering systems will thank you in the long run. With fleets that perform scheduled routine PS system flushes, we have seen highly abused work trucks go over 400,000 miles without any PS system failures! Just do it!

[chicane67]

You are correct in that statement!

Used steering boxes can have all kinds of muck / fine metal particulate hiding deep down inside of them, and shipping the parcel across the country most likely helped to agitate all of the muck loose (into suspension in the remaining fluid).
And bling-o was his name-o. :yeah:

For someone to actually purchase an item such as this, and not at least go through it (flush and clean) before they installed it, pretty much explains the result.

I will also recommend that you should run an AC/Delco PF883 (a Tom Lee favorite) in the return line during its initial start up and run it for a day. The 883 will take 95% of the particulate contaminants out within the first 5 minutes of operation. Best part, it only costs about $8.00.....

Just plumb it into the return line (before you even hook up the HYDBoost) and run it for awhile before you do. It doesnt need to stay in the system, you just need to filter the system before you finish your install. After you run it, take it out and finish your HYDBoost install.

BTW, I saw the system before it was shipped to you and the fluid that was drained, was clean.

[CAMAROBOY69]

BTW, I saw the system before it was shipped to you and the fluid that was drained, was clean.
Like I said above many many times already...... When I got it it was clean at first then alll I did was rotate the pitman arm and INSTANTLY black metallic filled fluid poured out. If you guys think I am lying, give me one good reason I would lie about something like this when I have less than 2 weeks to get my car going! Also dig thru the thousands of my replies and find a single time I have ever lied.
All Tyler would have had to do was pull the lines off the box and rotate the pitman arm and he would have seen this instantly.

[69protour]

Adam, did Tyler sell you the PS pump AND box? In your first post it sounded like you got the pump only? If so, the pump couldn't possibly hold that much muck in that small pump I wouldn't think? Now, I've seen steering boxes with that goop coming out of them before. Thanks for clarifying that. Trond.

[CAMAROBOY69]

Pump and box were from Tyler and were attached together just like this pic. From this thread. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=145792#post145792 (http://www.pro-
touring.com/forum/showthread.php?p=145792#post145792)
If he had removed them and rotated the pitman arm he would have seen the fluid instantly. Im not trying to bash anyone I just state the facts.
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[CAMAROBOY69]

dbl pst

[Todds69]

I would just go and buy a new AGR box or whatever brand you prefer. You've spent the cash on new Hydroboost and new pump. What's a little more cash to have it perfect. My $.02

[CAMAROBOY69]

Jake(gmachine68) already sent me a used pump that he had. After he read this entire post he offered me an extremely reasonable price and I couldnt refuse.
If I was to do this all over again I would have bought a new one. The sad part is the money I spent on these 2 used boxes I could have almost bought a new one. Oh well live and learn. :hammer:
Not sure what I am going to do with this other box and pump from Tyler now.

[chicane67]

Like I said above many many times already...... When I got it it was clean at first then alll I did was rotate the pitman arm and INSTANTLY black metallic filled fluid poured out. If you guys think I am lying, give me one good reason I would lie about something like this when I have less than 2 weeks to get my car going! Also dig thru the thousands of my replies and find a single time I have ever lied.
All Tyler would have had to do was pull the lines off the box and rotate the pitman arm and he would have seen this instantly.
Adam, I never stated that you were lying. I mearly stated what I witnessed.

Since we are stating 'just the facts'.....

Besides, I am pretty sure it was an 'as is sale'. There was no reason for Tyler to break the lines and turn the box..... that would have been your responsibility before you installed the unit. Hence my quotation of Pauls initial response, including my earlier statement.

Maybe you should go thru the box, clean it up.... and maybe even learn how to rebuild them and then sell it to recoupe your moola. Turn this into a true learning experience.

[CAMAROBOY69]

Maybe you should go thru the box, clean it up.... and maybe even learn how to rebuild them and then sell it to recoupe your moola. Turn this into a true learning experience.
Thats a very good idea. I think I might at least take the 4 top bolts off and open it up and see what all the metal came from so other members will also know what to look for in their PS boxes. Looks like there are a ton of parts inside according to the PDF file that was attached in one of these posts. I doubt for now that I will rebuild it but mabey later down the road. Way too busy to spend time on this box right now. I also have the PS pump that I wont need. That didnt have any bad fluid in it at all or metal. Only the box.

[BonzoHansen]

I will also recommend that you should run an AC/Delco PF883 (a Tom Lee favorite) in the return line during its initial start up and run it for a day. The 883 will take 95% of the particulate contaminants out within the first 5 minutes of operation. Best part, it only costs about $8.00.....

It appears the PF883 has been discontinued, according to my local ACD dealer.

[chicane67]

Really ?? Wanst aware of that one..... my local connection for AC/Delco still has them in stock.

Other than that, Tom Lee I believe is still sitting on a stock pile.