Pro-Touring shootout

[SN65]

Hi All,

I am sure you have all heard about the Hot Rod Pro-Touring shootout scheduled for this summer. I am not even sure about the criteria or when and where it will be held.

But....

I have thrown my hat in the ring to go up against the 66 Vette from Performance Restorations.

Anyone else up for the challenge???

Anyone else willing to risk pilling their show quality pro-touring ride into a cement barrier at about 180???

I don'y know about you, but I can hardly wait. Sounds like fun to me. :-)

[parsonsj]

So how does one "throw their hat in the ring"?

jp

[Blitz]

Oh man! I hope it gets some heavy coverage!

[Steve1968LS2]

I wonder if Primedia employee's are bared from entering..

[Bill Howell]

I did not even know there was a ring? I guess I am in the dark, damn, how do you get into such a secret inner ring?

[6'9"Witha69]

You have to fit Freiburger's criteria fro Pro-Touring. Whatever that is.

[Damn True]

I did not even know there was a ring? I guess I am in the dark, damn, how do you get into such a secret inner ring?

Listen, Sonny Jim, it's a known fact
there's a society of the five
wealthiest people in the world, called
the Pentaverate, who run everything
and meet three times a year at a
secret country mansion in Colorado,
known as "The Meadows."

That's right. They bleedin' own the
papers, smartguy. And everything
else. Why do you think Scotland's
not been able to get independence?
Because the Queen the Pentavirate
and those English dome heads in West
Minster won't have it.

The Queen, the Rothchilds, the Gettys,
the Vatican, and Colonel Sanders
before he went teats up. Oh, I hated
the Colonel with his wee beady eyes.
And that smug look on his face.

[speedster]

I did not even know there was a ring? I guess I am in the dark, damn, how do you get into such a secret inner ring?

I thought the inner-ring was something you stuck on your finger after you get married. No, maybe that was the suffer-ring.

[sinned]

Here are some details about getting "invited"

True, this is an invitational. True, there will likely be a pro driver there for the people who would like him to drive their cars, but it is not required. True, there will be mostly megabuck trailer queens there. Our point was to call them out and see if they really work or not (since we've been pretty loud about bashing show cars that don't work), but we'll also invite some more real-world cars to see if they do or don't put the smackdown to the megabuck guys. The event is more of an open-track day than a race and it doesn't have rules, but we will test open-track, braking, and maybe quarter-mile and will list the cars in order of their performance. It's just a fun day so we can generate some editorial on some cool cars, and in some cases we'll probably be getting them to run on track for the first time. That's the "calling out the poseurs" part.

If you want to come, email photos and descriptions of your car to us: [email protected] ([email protected]). Tell us why you'd be a good car to invite. We can't pick all of you due to limited time, but there's no reason some of you can't be there. It will be August in the Midwest.

Please do this, too: put Open Track Smackdown in the subject line. I will help us sort the email, as we get about 100 a day.




Like Freiburger said, if you've got a car that you think is a player, email it to [email protected] ([email protected]), and make sure to put Open Track Smackdown (or OTC) in the subject line, and we'll look at all of them.

Rob Kinnan
HOT ROD

[ProdigyCustoms]

Dennis, were are these post from?

[sinned]

LOL, a small discussion we had a few weeks ago on another board. I seemed to have ruffled a few feathers....not that it would a first.


http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112752

[Van B]

I have been watching for this, but I am too heavily under construction to send pics yet. I'll have to wait and see what unfolds. Mine is more of a real world sort of ride.

[Damn True]

Go git 'em boys!

[Bob Johnson]

Listen, Sonny Jim, it's a known fact
there's a society of the five
wealthiest people in the world, called
the Pentaverate, who run everything
and meet three times a year at a
secret country mansion in Colorado,
known as "The Meadows."

That's right. They bleedin' own the
papers, smartguy. And everything
else. Why do you think Scotland's
not been able to get independence?
Because the Queen the Pentavirate
and those English dome heads in West
Minster won't have it.

The Queen, the Rothchilds, the Gettys,
the Vatican, and Colonel Sanders
before he went teats up. Oh, I hated
the Colonel with his wee beady eyes.
And that smug look on his face.
Did Jessee Jackson take the Colonel's place when he took a dirt nap? or will he be in Colorado picketing because they don't have representation..

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, I never saw that, did not know it had been discussed in public. Since it is out, I can then say our "hat was in the ring" right after the article came out, but no phone calls yet. I know a few others here have had their name / "hat in the ring" also. I guess in this case, the hat in the ring means showing willingness to be invited. Maybe those of us that do not get selected can get it on amongst ourselves?

[sinned]

I don't have ALL the facts Frank but I do know that some phone calls have already been made. Some in fact, before those individuals even expressed interest in attending. I would not say that not having gotten a phone call yet excludes you from being invited.

[jeff s]

It was made public in the Jarvis' Vette article in Hot Rod.
Yea, I've sent emails and phone calls. No replies. But, I'd want to drive my cars or my customer's cars and we know they wouldn't allow that.

[Damn True]

It was made public in the Jarvis' Vette article in Hot Rod.
Yea, I've sent emails and phone calls. No replies. But, I'd want to drive my cars or my customer's cars and we know they wouldn't allow that.

My take on what Freibruger said was that there will be a pro hot-shoe "available" to those who want it. It dosen't sound as if invitees would be prevented from driving their car should they so choose.

[DJW32]

Kick some hot rod magazine a$$, party people

[jeff s]

I thought Kinnan wrote the article?

[Damn True]

Refering to comments directly from Freiburger in the chevelle forum thread

[mpozzi]

Where's this shoot-out going to take place?? And can gals come and play too??

Mary Pozzi

[mpozzi]

Reread the post and the location's a no-go for us westcoasters. Sounds like a lot of fun and I hope whoever they choose gets it done.

Mary Pozzi

[Damn True]

"Somewhere in the midwest" is all they are giving up.

From the stand point of a "good story" a woman in the event would be pretty hard for them to pass up if you were to request invitiation. You ought to apply.

I'm pretty sure that between the lot of us we could get the '73 to and from w/o any one of us having to take too much time off work.

You jet in at the eleventh hour on Southwest, climb into the car and clean their freakin clocks!

C'mon Mary!

[David Pozzi]

Uh Oh! :drive2:

[Damn True]

I wouldn't be able to take off enough time to support the entire trip to/from. (using up my vacation with that little thing in Italy) But I'm certain I could help get the car from here to someplace further down the road (maybe Salt Lake) and hand it off to some other willing participant.

[vanzuuk1]

It would be cool if the Pozzis were there.

I hope the cars are driven by their owners,its not as relevant to me if someone hires boris said or some "ringer" to drive their car.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I hope the cars are driven by their owners,its not as relevant to me if someone hires boris said or some "ringer" to drive their car.

Well, it depends on weather this is about the cars, or the owners. If the intent is to prove that Pro Touring cars are or are not baddass cars, then their needs to be the same driver in each car to level the field. I can tell you right now, I think our car is fast as ****, but neither Michael or myself would think for one second we can drive like Stielow, Swhartz, Pozzi and many others. We no road racers, and those guys could probably kick our monsters ass with a Miata! Facts are facts. Would we run Prodigy around a road coarse ourselves and push it what we would consider hard? Hell yes. Could we turn as fast a lap as a real driver? No!

Now if the intent of the competition is to prove Pro Touring car owners are or are not racers, then it is a different competition completely. For us personally, if we we lucky enough to be selceted, we can go and drive our own car, but I can tell you I know our chance of winning is slim and none with us driving. Should we be selected, we are going with intentions of trying to win. These intentions do not mean we think we can win, or would predict a win, but we would at least go and TRY to win. And if that means a pro driver, or using the same driver, so be it.


It is my understanding the intent of the competition is to prove car owners of "Pro Touring cars", particularly higher end Pro Touring cars, are or are not posers affraid to use the cars in exhibition of speed events. And also to prove that Pro Touring cars as performance cars are or are not the equvilent of fairground cruisng 14/71 blown injected Pro Street cars that can not fall out of a tree.

[Jim Nilsen]

Somewhere in the midwest? Blackhawk Farms Raceway and The Byron Dragway are only 30 miles apart and Hotrod knows where they are. They are both tracks that are good for the average guy,especially Blackhawk Farms. I will keep hoping that they have it at these tracks since I live right between the two. Jeff S knows Blackhawk and would have an advantage there if you wanted him to drive a car for you.
This is going to be interesting? Route 66 Raceway park might be another choice for them so we will see. A good ride and drive between Blackhawk and Byron would be really cool and part of the drive was part of the power tour in 04.


Jim Nilsen

[Damn True]

I wonder if their "ringer" driver is Matt King now that he has a couple of years of AI under his belt, or if they are getting someone more notable?

[sinned]

Rumor has it Matt has parted company with Hot Rod (actually its not a rumor but I like the way it sounded). I doubt he will be the hot shoe.

[BonzoHansen]

Rumor has it Matt has parted company with Hot Rod (actually its not a rumor but I like the way it sounded). I doubt he will be the hot shoe.As per the last issue of Hot Rod, he's out, working for Harley Davidson.

[SN65]

Somewhere in the midwest? Blackhawk Farms Raceway and The Byron Dragway are only 30 miles apart and Hotrod knows where they are. They are both tracks that are good for the average guy,especially Blackhawk Farms. I will keep hoping that they have it at these tracks since I live right between the two. Jeff S knows Blackhawk and would have an advantage there if you wanted him to drive a car for you.
This is going to be interesting? Route 66 Raceway park might be another choice for them so we will see. A good ride and drive between Blackhawk and Byron would be really cool and part of the drive was part of the power tour in 04.

Jim Nilsen
Hi Jim,

Actually, if they want a real race, they should have us all start on I88, work our way to the Tri State, hit the Ike and finish it off on Lake Shore Drive. :-)

That would be a fun little jaunt. Afterwards, we can have a party in the Cubby Bear just outside of Wrigly Field.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Hey Bob,

I see on the post on the other forum a few have been confirmed. When you say you through your hat in the ring, does that mean you guys have been selected and accepted or that you let them know you would do it if invited? It would be cool to know if any of the members here are in.

[trapin]

I wonder if Primedia employee's are bared from entering..
Actually Steve, I think clothes are a requirement. :wedgie:

[BonzoHansen]

Hi Jim,

Actually, if they want a real race, they should have us all start on I88, work our way to the Tri State, hit the Ike and finish it off on Lake Shore Drive. :-)

That would be a fun little jaunt. Afterwards, we can have a party in the Cubby Bear just outside of Wrigly Field.Cannonball!

[Damn True]

Actually Steve, I think clothes are a requirement. :wedgie:

Nobody can tell if you are naked once you get in the car. Not that I personlly ever drive naked......Ive just been told about it from other people.

LOL

[SN65]

Hey Bob,

I see on the post on the other forum a few have been confirmed. When you say you through your hat in the ring, does that mean you guys have been selected and accepted or that you let them know you would do it if invited? It would be cool to know if any of the members here are in.
Hi Frank,

Well... when they talked to me about shooting my car for a feature, they asked if we were interested....

I said that I did not know what our chances were but Hell Yeah.

We are only putting down about 400 RWH right now. I think that we would have to be in the 550+ RWH range to be competitive. Our overall balance appeares to be correct but we won't know until we get some actual track time.

So...

We have said that we are willing. It is up to them to actually choose.

On another note. The SN65 project has eaten up a great deal of my time and I have been pretty focused on that project and that thread. Now that it is done, I am hoping to partisipate a bit more in the rest of the comunity here. I know that some are a bit upset that I spent all my time here on one thread. Now I can spread out a bit more.

Bob

[MarkM66]

According to Hot Rod this $350k Swinging D wants in. I'd like to see that....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Travis B]

According to Hot Rod this $350k Swinging D wants in. I'd like to see that....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


dam that car is killer!

[Bob Johnson]

Hi Frank,

Well... when they talked to me about shooting my car for a feature, they asked if we were interested....

I said that I did not know what our chances were but Hell Yeah.

We are only putting down about 400 RWH right now. I think that we would have to be in the 550+ RWH range to be competitive. Our overall balance appeares to be correct but we won't know until we get some actual track time.

So...

We have said that we are willing. It is up to them to actually choose.

On another note. The SN65 project has eaten up a great deal of my time and I have been pretty focused on that project and that thread. Now that it is done, I am hoping to partisipate a bit more in the rest of the comunity here. I know that some are a bit upset that I spent all my time here on one thread. Now I can spread out a bit more.

Bob
I told you..Rabbit has a cure for that 400RWHP..cost you $ 2,500..it'll do the trick

[Jim Nilsen]

Watch me take a picture of this car with Jeff S sticking out of the roof !!!

Jim Nilsen

[Damn True]

Hi Frank,

Well... when they talked to me about shooting my car for a feature, they asked if we were interested....

I said that I did not know what our chances were but Hell Yeah.

We are only putting down about 400 RWH right now. I think that we would have to be in the 550+ RWH range to be competitive. Our overall balance appeares to be correct but we won't know until we get some actual track time.

So...

We have said that we are willing. It is up to them to actually choose.

On another note. The SN65 project has eaten up a great deal of my time and I have been pretty focused on that project and that thread. Now that it is done, I am hoping to partisipate a bit more in the rest of the comunity here. I know that some are a bit upset that I spent all my time here on one thread. Now I can spread out a bit more.

Bob

I'd be willing to bet that your car would do quite well with a bit of suspension tunning, even with limited power. Corner exit speed and overall balance will be premium. The big-block cars may be able to lay a smackdown on the 1/4 mile but will suffer on a road course against more balanced vehicles. Ever watch a NASA practice session and see Miata's hounding Vipers?

[Bill Howell]

According to Hot Rod this $350k Swinging D wants in. I'd like to see that....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Is not that our own Jeff S. in the background, Mark? Were you all together or is that total coincidence?

[Bill Howell]

Watch me take a picture of this car with Jeff S sticking out of the roof !!!

Jim Nilsen

I guess you see the same thing I did Jim. I just got to your post after I posted above.

[MarkM66]

Is not that our own Jeff S. in the background, Mark? Were you all together or is that total coincidence?

I found this pic on the web. I wasn't there.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Thats very cool Bob. I just wondered if you were one of the confirmed ones they are refering to.

[SN65]

I told you..Rabbit has a cure for that 400RWHP..cost you $ 2,500..it'll do the trick
Hi Bob,

I hate to admit it, but coming up with $2,500 is going to be a little tough (at least for the next couple of months). We have a huge backlog at Hydro-Flo, but most of that will not ship until the end of the second quarter. Line of credit is already up to 250K. Until this equipment ships, I am going to be a bit tapped.

You think he will take an IOU? Or maybe I can just get by on my good looks for now? :-)

Bob

[SN65]

Thats very cool Bob. I just wondered if you were one of the confirmed ones they are refering to.
Hi PC,

Well... We are not confirmed yet. We are hoping. If we don't get picked, I will just figure that they were scared $H!TLE$$. :-)

I want to see Bob J's car on the track. I know it was built more for straight line runs, but seeing it (and Bob) on the track would be a real Kodak moment.

Whatever happens, I am sure that this group will be well represented.

Bob

[Bill Howell]

I have read with quite some interest this thread and the related threads concerning this purposed meeting.
I feel we are getting the cart before the horse a bit. I do know there was some talk about a track day, however, guys, Rome was not built in a day, and something like this is not designed and all the issues worked out overnight. Lord knows, it will take Hot Rod's lawyers alone several weeks to get all their requirements worked out. If not Hot Rod, whoever does such an event has to do their homework.
If this does not happen right now, do not worry, it has to happen soon. Since Hot Rod has taken the position we are posers, maybe their venue is not the best one for us anyway. Then again, Frieburger may be right, Are we all talk and no action? Everyone needs to just take a chill pill and relax a minute. In time we will get respect and notice.
Let's give them the chance to make it happen, and if they drop the ball, then we will move on the Plan B.

[SN65]

Hi Bill,

I agree. The ball is in Hot Rods court right now. If they drop the ball, I am sure someone else will pick it up and run with it.

Dos't Car Craft have some kind of open track challenge?

Bob

[BonzoHansen]

Hi Bill,

I agree. The ball is in Hot Rods court right now. If they drop the ball, I am sure someone else will pick it up and run with it.

Dos't Car Craft have some kind of open track challenge?

BobRSE – Real Street Eliminators.

[Bill Howell]

In years past, they had something similar.
The bottom line is we need a challenge, however, we do not need to set ourselves up to be someones dead ringers and in turn become the laughing stock of the car world. Unless the promoters, whoever that is, understands what protouring is, I am not sure we should jump at the first offer. Everyone has their own agenda and I am not so sure our best interest are being served unless someone from our genre has some input in what the event is about. I could set up an event today for Prostreet cars, fill the event, then make them look like fools, because the event would be set up for them to fall. I do not want that to be the case with us, especially on the first one.
Lets all just step back and see what happens, no need to jump just because someone sets a trap.
There are some killer cars and drivers right here on pro-touring.com
If they do not get a special invite from the promoters, I feel we are being set up for a fall. We have the means and wherewithall to set up a challenge ourselves, and will if this does not go in the right direction.
Signed,
Bill Howell
#1 Poser

[KAA]

The way I understand it is there will be a "pro" available to drive your car if you so desire. Makes no sense to me though. It's like being married to a beautiful woman and then hiring some stud to have sex with her. What's the point? :screwy:

I threw my name in the hat as one of the "low buck" guys who did all the work on his car himself. The chances are pretty slim that I'll get invited but, in the unlikely event I do, I guarantee you I'll be the only one driving my car. And win, lose, or draw, I'll be having way more fun than the guy who didn't. :drive1:

[SN65]

The way I understand it is there will be a "pro" available to drive your car if you so desire. Makes no sense to me though. It's like being married to a beautiful woman and then hiring some stud to have sex with her. What's the point? :screwy:

I threw my name in the hat as one of the "low buck" guys who did all the work on his car himself. The chances are pretty slim that I'll get invited but, in the unlikely event I do, I guarantee you I'll be the only one driving my car. And win, lose, or draw, I'll be having way more fun than the guy who didn't. :drive1:
Hi KKA,

As far as "doing all the work yourself", the same is true for Wayne and myself. We did all the work at the collision center. As far as that goes, the only tools we have at our disposal that you don't have are the measuring system and paint booth. Other than that, everything we did was the same as you. Cut, Grind, weld, grind, paint.

Bob

PS: I could not do our car justice on a road course. I would love to drive it, but my times would suck the big one.

[KAA]

It looks like you two did one hell of a job on it. Kudos to you! I don't envy you having to do all that body work. That's one thing I have not tried yet. When I said I did all the work myself I meant all the mechanical work and modifications. I left the painting to the pros.

[vanzuuk1]

It wasnt a challenge, but my attempt to get guys to do a track day met with lukewarm results. A few brave souls stepped up, gsxrken, steevo and mr angry to name a few.

[Bill Howell]

It wasnt a challenge, but my attempt to get guys to do a track day met with lukewarm results. A few brave souls stepped up, gsxrken, steevo and mr angry to name a few.

Exactly my point, Maybe just maybe, Frieburger is right...... Are we for real or just talking trash. :dunno:

[CarlC]

Dang. I'd like to play, but the location is a deal killer for me due to travel costs.

Make all of them run for a hard 20 minute non-stop session and see how they hold up. Pozzi taught me the meaning of on-track reliability, and I do my best to live by the words. A one-lap wonder is no fun to drive.

My $20 is on Mary to spank them all!

[Bob Johnson]

Hi PC,

Well... We are not confirmed yet. We are hoping. If we don't get picked, I will just figure that they were scared $H!TLE$$. :-)

I want to see Bob J's car on the track. I know it was built more for straight line runs, but seeing it (and Bob) on the track would be a real Kodak moment.

Whatever happens, I am sure that this group will be well represented.

Bob

I'm over at Alans..we're going to go to the Dyno again tomorrow. We've got some chicken feet and have the voodoo hex working..hope everything works right this time. We feel the Cudas strength will be on a road course and braking. There's lots of cars that will go fast in a straight line. Hell even The Real might be faster in a straight line
if it makes the ponies it's supposed to..I want to see him in a turn with that behometh..Hot Rod doesn't even acknowledge the fact that the Cuda even exists.

[Damn True]

My $20 is on Mary to spank them all!


Ditto!

[Van B]

Somewhere in the midwest? Blackhawk Farms Raceway and The Byron Dragway are only 30 miles apart and Hotrod knows where they are. They are both tracks that are good for the average guy,especially Blackhawk Farms. I will keep hoping that they have it at these tracks since I live right between the two. Jeff S knows Blackhawk and would have an advantage there if you wanted him to drive a car for you.

Jim Nilsen

Hey, that would work. I have several hundred laps at Blackhawk. Although it would be cool to see what a more accomplished driver could do, I would rather lose driving myself than let someone else compete in my car.

I really want in on this, but do you think they would accept me if I sent them photos of my parts pile? LOL As stated earlier, it may never happen, and if it does, a relative unknown with an unproven vehicle would probably not get accepted.

Maybe Mr. Schwartz will put in a good word for me with the magazine types. :poke: :fingersx:

[CarlC]

Although it would be cool to see what a more accomplished driver could do, I would rather lose driving myself than let someone else compete in my car.

Words to live by.

[jeff s]

I'd be glad to put in a good word for you JVB, but I can't get anyone to talk to me.
My guess is one Gm Engineer driver of their choice will drive a carefully selected (stacked deck) group of cars that will be tested in such a way to support whatever point they want to get across.
And compared to production cars.
And it will happen at Putnam Park this summer.

[SLO 65]

Does anyone else feel like the One Lap of America would make a great Pro-Touring shootout? PT class rules:

1. OEM cars pre 1990 (no kit cars)
2. Track driver's name must appear on the cars title.
3. ????

Nick

P.S. I would like to see the quadaduce in a PT shootout.

[KAA]

I think HOT ROD should do a road course week based on the same premise as Drag Week! I bet they could get three or four cars to show up.

[parsonsj]

Hey Jeff,

Where's Putnam Park?

jp

[trapin]

Whatever happens, I am sure that this group will be well represented.
Yeah...I totally agree. I'm sure all the cars that get invited will be THE VERY BEST BATTLE TESTED G-MACHINES OUT THERE and not a bunch of trailer queens and wanna be's. That much I'm confident of. I'm sure Hot Rod will do us proud.

Because in the immortal words of Sally Field; "They like us.....THEY REALLY LIKE US".

[BonzoHansen]

Does anyone else feel like the One Lap of America would make a great Pro-Touring shootout?I always considered an event like that a perfect target.

[6'9"Witha69]

If mine were done, I would do it in a heartbeat! Then again, there are plenty of '69s ready ahead of me. I guess I will just have to race at the tracks here in Cal and let them think whatever they want. If I am building the car for me I will race it for me!

[baz67]

Let me get this right. A mag that has stated that PT is a fad is going to put on a PT shootout event with their handpicked driver. You guys really think this is going to be unbiased? One has to question where this informaion was first put on the web. It was not here or an Lateral-g. As far as I know those are pretty much the only dedicated PT sites. Do you really think Hotrod does not know about this site? Why would they not offer the invite here? Unbiased my culo.

[KAA]

Hey Jeff,

Where's Putnam Park?

jp

Mount Meridian, Indiana. Just off I-70 40 miles west of Indianapolis. I was hoping for Road America.

[PeteRR]

So if they bring/sneak in a 2006 Z06 and it blows everybody away, will HR have their story?

[Steve Chryssos]

Let me get this right. A mag that has stated that PT is a fad is going to put on a PT shootout event with their handpicked driver. You guys really think this is going to be unbiased?

That is not accurate. Not even remotely accurate. And you know better, Brian. An event has been PROPOSED (which means that it does not yet actually exist). When the event occurs, a pro driver will be on hand as a courtesy, so that any of the invited vehicle owners can defer to the talents of that pro. By CHOICE. That has been made crystal clear. Perhaps it's even fair to assume that the owners will get a chance to hot lap their vehicles in addition to letting the pro driver run the formal test runs if so desired. And it seems even more appropriate that the pro would provide valuable tuning feedback to the owners.


One has to question where this information was first put on the web. It was not here or an Lateral-g. As far as I know those are pretty much the only dedicated PT sites. Do you really think Hotrod does not know about this site? Why would they not offer the invite here?.......

No announcement has been made because the event has not been FINALIZED. Hot Rod was not making an announcement. Hot Rod's response on Chevelles.net was obviously damage control. The "inside information" presented by Denny at Chevelles.net instead of Pro-Touring.com prompted their response. Both Freiburger and Kinnan chose their words carefully in an effort to prevent the spread of grossly inaccurate dis-information and repair any resultant damage. Re-read their words carefully. They state that the dis-information cannot possibly be well-founded, because the event DOES NOT YET EXIST. No track confirmed No date confirmed..and very few cars confirmed. So that killer inside info was nothing but spew.

Handled properly, Hot Rod's Open Track Smackdown will BENCHMARK a wide cross-section of Pro-Touring cars. It's not a competition. These are vehicle comparisons much like those presented each month in Car & Driver. We've all been clamoring for such information. Speculation and criticism can't possibly help the present situation. The exclusion of Pro-Touring.com or Lateral-g.net might very well happen as a result of frustration borne out of this unfounded, premature speculation and whiney-ass criticism.

Time to band together as a CAR CLUB:
-Wait for the event to actually exist. (Wow! That's just.....profound!)
-If you submit your car, you are not a poser. You stepped up.
-If you show up and run YOU WON!
-If you run a number that's better than stock, YOU WON!
-If you run a number that's better than other cars present, YOU KICKED ASS.

-And if, after publishing a challenge, Hot Rod does not come through with the event; or Hot Rod does not include a valid cross section of vehicles, bolt-on cars, clipped cars, full frame cars, and show cars, then it's time to criticize.

[Pro-touring towncar]

Too bad they aren't smart enough to use the brand new raceway in utah.

Tim

[Van B]

They state that the dis-information cannot possibly be well-founded, because the event DOES NOT YET EXIST. No track confirmed No date confirmed..and very few cars confirmed. So that killer inside info was nothing but spew.

"very few cars confirmed" for an event that doesn't exist. Sounds like a government project. :usa: :lmao:

[Lowend]

Gimmie a short-tight course and my ugly 71 will crush 90% of the people out there. Of course the car is built to Auto-X, so we have to make a nothing above 3rd gear rule :D

[Charley Lillard]

Can we have it out west ?

[Steve Chryssos]

Can we have it out west ?

No worries. I think there are enough people interested in seeing the Mule benchmarked that they would volunteer to take turns pushing it to the venue.

[SN65]

Hi All,

I think that the point "Hot Rod" was trying to make with the Jarvis article, was that there are to many people out there building cars that are all show and no go. They are bolting on high performance parts, willy nilly, without any considration as to how they will work together.

I believe that, when building a car for pro-touring, consideration should be givin to how the car will be driven before bolting the part on the car. It always brings us back to the wheel and tire combo, suspension, drivetrain. I believe that many outside the pro-touring aspect of the hobby think that the cars are lifesize muscle machine characatures of a car. Those who frequent this site and L-G know that that is not the case, but I will bet you that there are plenty of misguided hobbyists out there who are building cars with little or no guidance. They read the articles, run down the list of used components, read the ads and start buying parts without any real understanding of how to make the overall package work.

Don't you all cringe when you see a car with huge breaks and wheels a killer suspension, gobs of HP, but can't take a corner at speed without swapping ends about 3 or 4 times. Yes they bolted on all the right parts, but they have no idea as to how to set up the car and make it work as a package.

I believe that that is what Hot Rod is trying to point out.

[white79bu]

What about Mid-Ohio? It's a pretty general location. Plus it's a legend!:)

[mpozzi]

Can we have it out west ?

Hey Charlie,

If you build it, they will come . . . !!

Mary P.

[SN65]

Hi All,

I just got an e-mail from Rob over at Hot Rod. He says we are on the short list for what they are calling their Open Track Smackdown. I don't know if they are still looking for it to ba an all "pro-touring" event or not. They may end up having quite a diverse mix of cars instead of just one aspect of the hobby.

Who knows what they will do, but if I hear anything, I will be sure to keep you posted.

Bob

[Steve Chryssos]

...... I don't know if they are still looking for it to ba an all "pro-touring" event or not. They may end up having quite a diverse mix of cars instead of just one aspect of the hobby...

That doesn't sound right. Re-read the email, he may have been referring to a diverse cross-section of pro-touring cars not a diverse cross section of hot rods in general. Not much sense in bringing a pro street car, for example, to a road course. Pitting Gravedigger against Chip Foose's Impression against a lowrider would be funny for one half of the first paragraph? And nothing would be learned from the exercise. A much better question is: "Does my tubular clip, roll cage automatic car work any better than Carl Casanova's car that utilizes mostly bolt on parts? Or is John Parson's hyperengineered, home built, full frame Chevy II and better than Bob Johnson's mega-dollar full frame G-Force 'cuda? Airbags or coil springs? Leaf springs or 3 link? Manual or auto? Budget or high dollar? Now that's a smackdown!!

So perhaps they are expanding on the original challenge made at the end of that article--which was to embarrass the trailer queen "Mod Rods" (street rod muscle cars) that prowl car shows but have very little to do with pro-touring. I hope we get to see a few of those as well. Maybe then we will all see and agree on the clear distinction.

So the diversity might boil down to a few bolt-on cars (i.e. Hotchkis or Global West parts) vs. more heavily modified cars vs. full frame cars like II Much or SN65 vs. the Mod Rod trailer queens. I hope this is indeed their true definition of "diverse group" because then everyone will learn things like: "are aftermarket clips and gi-normous rubber any better than bolt-on parts and modest tires.

I very much want in on the action--Me and my poor little automatic and leaf springs. And I don't care how broke I am, how far away it is, or how angry my wife gets. Beg, borrow or steal (most likely borrow), If I get the call, I'm goin!

After sending an email to Hot Rod, go ahead and post your interest and commitment to attending right here as well. That's if you are up for the challenge. Let's see how many of us get picked.

But remember: There technically is NO event yet. Go scan Hot Rod.com. I found two low count threads on their message board and no official announcement anywhere. Hopefully their are just lloking to make their oficial announcement in print before doing so on the website.

[vanzuuk1]

I think a lot of it will hinge on the amount of track time each car and driver combination has seen. I would expect that some pretty low tech cars will do well if the driver has a lot of seat time on a road course and the car has some decent chassis tuning.
I want to see the Pozzi's and Jeffs caddy, Steevo and some others from this site fly the flag for us.

I hope I can at least fly out and help out. If they delay it long enough I might even get my car there.

As far as I am concerned, whoever steps up to the plate gets a lot of credit.

[Damn True]

Here it is the middle of March and nothing is really known about this thing. If in fact Freiburger REALLY wants a cross section of the PT population including high-dollar cruisers and low-buck bruisers he had better get it together soon.

Regular guys can't just drop everything on little notice and schlep a car and support equipment 1/2 way across the country. They need to get the info out so that kind of guy can make the arrangements. That is if they REALLY want that kind of guy there. I have a sneaking suspicion that a bunch of the "trailer-queen" types are not enthused about having their lunch handed to them by a car that cost a fraction of their own.

At this point, with no firm date or location, sounds like Hot Rod is the one that has to put up or shut up.

[vanzuuk1]

Yeah, Hot rod, put up or shut up!

[Damn True]

Did anyone else notice that on the page opposite the spray about Stielow's latest build was a blurb about a Morrison Corvette? In the text it states that they invited him (and the as yet unfinished car) to this amorphous "shootout".

Hmmmm

[KAA]

I don't think there's any doubt it's going to happen. The question is, when, where, who will be invited, and who will actually show up?

[Steve1968LS2]

I find it funny HR would do a pt deal.. they don't seem hot on the whole pt/g-machine deal.. like it's just a fad or something..

[6'9"Witha69]

I find it funny HR would do a pt deal.. they don't seem hot on the whole pt/g-machine deal.. like it's just a fad or something..:wtlw:

[Travis B]

I find it funny HR would do a pt deal.. they don't seem hot on the whole pt/g-machine deal.. like it's just a fad or something..

as stated before in this thread they get it, they are just stirring the pot so people like us will sit here and bit*h and moan about it....they have featured plenty of PT style cars in the last few months. They aren't stupid they see whats happening

[Steve68]

It looks like the board will just have to get together, do the shoot out and let someone host the pics and have someone like Andrew B. or JP write the piece and submit it to PHR, because that guy there would surely run it, wouldn't you Steve,

I see getting everyone together the hard part!

[BonzoHansen]

Did anyone else notice that on the page opposite the spray about Stielow's latest build was a blurb about a Morrison Corvette? In the text it states that they invited him (and the as yet unfinished car) to this amorphous "shootout".

HmmmmYup.

[Damn True]

So we can expect:

The Orange Vette - unsorted
The Morrison Vette - unfinished
Perhaps SN65 - paint aint even dry

I hope they actually invite some cars that have some time on them. It won't be a lot of fun to read about somone chasing a setup.

[Bill Howell]

I doubt Art will be chasing a setup. Since he has been building frames for years, I bet it is close the day they drive it out the door. In fact, if that car is there, I will probably put my money on it.

Once we get all the info on who will be there, I see a contest coming among members to wager some play money and see who wins. I am sure Larry could come up with a cool prize.

[Damn True]

I doubt Art will be chasing a setup. Since he has been building frames for years, I bet it is close the day they drive it out the door. In fact, if that car is there, I will probably put my money on it.

Once we get all the info on who will be there, I see a contest coming among members to wager some play money and see who wins. I am sure Larry could come up with a cool prize.

Art is good, no doubt. But even professional race teams take DAYS to dial in a setup on a car they have built multiple times (ie LG Motorsports Vettes or Alex Job Porsche's). Art's car is from scratch, a blank page. It will be better than most to start with, but faaaaaar from close to it's potential until he gets some time in it to dial the setup.

[SN65]

Hi DT,

The paint is now dry...

And we are heading off to the dyno next Thursday for a quick tune. We want to establish the baseline before we alter anything on the engine.

On the final checklist are...

Brake upgrade, blower upgrade, adjustable clutch / quadrant, carbon fiber hood.

Also, I bet that I have the most weight added for comfort and interior appointments (seats, upholstery, soundproofing, stereo system, etc...) at the shootout. You will be able to pick out the SN65 with your eyes closed as you will hear "I can't drive 55" when the car rockets past. :-)

Bob

[SN65]

Art is good, no doubt. But even professional race teams take DAYS to dial in a setup on a car they have built multiple times (ie LG Motorsports Vettes or Alex Job Porsche's). Art's car is from scratch, a blank page. It will be better than most to start with, but faaaaaar from close to it's potential until he gets some time in it to dial the setup.
Also...

In regard to Art having to dial his car in. Brent Jarvis has a one off chassis just as new and untried as Art's. Brent built his from scratch. Art is an established chassis designer and builder. I would think that, all things considered equal, Art has the upper hand.

As far as I am concerned, I am taking the "Amazing Race" approach. I really don't care if I finish first, I just don't want to come in last. :-)

Bob

[Van B]

You will be able to pick out the SN65 with your eyes closed as you will hear "I can't drive 55" when the car rockets past. :-)

Bob

Besides that, there is no mistaking that late model Cobra blower whine at 140-150mph. I pitted near the end of the front straight at Road America on an F-Body weekend a couple of years ago and there were a couple of Cobras there. Nothing else sounds like 'em! :revto9k:

[Damn True]

Looks like Putnam park:

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28748

[kmcanally]

Also...

In regard to Art having to dial his car in. Brent Jarvis has a one off chassis just as new and untried as Art's. Brent built his from scratch. Art is an established chassis designer and builder. I would think that, all things considered equal, Art has the upper hand.

As far as I am concerned, I am taking the "Amazing Race" approach. I really don't care if I finish first, I just don't want to come in last. :-)

Bob

I believe Brents chassis was built by Wheel to Wheel...not that it necessarily matters...

[jeff s]

I'd like to be there with any of our cars,
www.schwartzperformance.com/featuredprojects.htm
especially this one:

[Bill Howell]

I'd like to be there with any of our cars,
www.schwartzperformance.com/featuredprojects.htm (http://www.schwartzperformance.com/featuredprojects.htm)
especially this one:

Oh come on Jeff, you know that is just your typical, average ttLS powered car. What chance would it have?:naughty: :cheers:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Oh my god jeff, you have to be excited as hell. Looks fantastic. Get it out yet?

[DJW32]

HOLY SH*T!!!!!! WOW!!!! DAMN!!!! Jeff, That looks amazing

[jeff s]

Just mocking up and fabricating now, about two weeks fab'll be done.
The T61's are on the old 11:1 500hp LS6, the new engine is 8.9:1 402 cid which I built. Everything was fabbed in house. GOnna re-gear the transaxle to 225mph.
thanks

[ProdigyCustoms]

GOnna re-gear the transaxle to 225mph.
thanks

YEAH BABY!!!!!!