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View Full Version : Home Mig Welder (110V vs. 220V)



1970ls6
10-05-2004, 08:18 AM
Any of you welders out there have any advice on a decent mig welder for the home shop? I have always taken my stuff to work to weld w/ the full size welders and do not know anything about the small ones. Miller 135, Hobert 180 , Firepower, Clarke. Are some of the ones that I have been looking at. Do I need a 220v, or will a 110 work OK? I was thinking I would like at least 130 amps. Thanks for any input.

68protouring454
10-05-2004, 08:45 AM
let us know what you want to do with it, i would suggest a lincoln sp175 or a miller 175, something thats 230 volt,175 amp will do anything you need to on a muscle car, the 110 volt ones are okay but you are limited to sheetmetal, etc,if money is a concern i would much rather have a used 175 than a new 100 or 135 welder, let us know
jake

1970ls6
10-05-2004, 04:26 PM
Thanks Jake, the welding i would do at home would be stuff like exhaust work, little things around the house like a braket that broke on my log splitter last week, side rails on my trailer. Nothing heaver than .25". I am thinking about doing a mini tub on the camaro this winter. Would use it to tack up the 9" rear once i decide on on how wide to make it, but would take it in to work to finish weld w/ larger welder.
Kent

Matt@RFR
10-05-2004, 05:02 PM
For 1/4" mild steel you're looking at atleast a 175/180 class MIG. I'm a big Miller fan, but tested the new Hobart 180 before it came out. It's an excellent machine for what you're wanting to do with it. (It's 220)

Any 110v machine will not do 1/4" mild steel correctly.

TBART70
10-16-2004, 04:17 PM
i have a 110v miller and used it to weld in my chassis to my camaro, some of the plates that the chassis is tied into is almost 1/4 inch and it welds it fine with .030 wire , if it does not weld 1/4 do two passes it will work.

Matt@RFR
10-16-2004, 06:00 PM
Almost 1/4". What does that mean? And what thickness were you welding them to?

Can you please tell me why two passes is better than one? On what type of joint?


and it welds it fine with .030 wire

Have you done any destructive testing to verify this?

TBART70
10-23-2004, 11:11 AM
i was wrong it was 3/16 plate but it still welded fine with .030. you do not need to spend the money on a big welder if you are doing anything 1/4 and smaller. if the big welder does not have a fine setting sheet metal work will be hard. as for destructive testing i will let you know when the car is done, 600hp if it does not crack or break the welds i will be happy. and about two passes on a weld, i have done it on occasion, my buddy is a certified welder and told me to do it if needed.

ProdigyCustoms
10-23-2004, 02:31 PM
Actually mulitple passes are often required in certified weldings. The amphibious buses we build are US Coast Guard certified vessels, and have to be inspected through the fit up, then the welding process, amoung other things. There are specific requirments and procedures for various welding task. One example, with 1/4" butt welds, they material has to be camfered, gaped, and welded with 3 passes for full penetration.
Multiple passes of heavy material is common place.
As far as welders, I have only Esab's migs in my shop, but they are a bit pricy for a hobbist. I have never used a 110 mig I was happy with. I hate using a welder at full capacity on heavy stuff. A good quality 220, 175 amp or up welder from Miller, Lincoln, Esab, etc, will have good steady current for thin sheetmeal, to any heavy gauge you would use on a auto project.

KendallF
10-23-2004, 06:10 PM
I just bought a Lincoln 175 off of Ebay; I will report back when I get it and have a chance to mess around with it a bit. I have a large Miller TIG at home, but I really wanted a MIG for those places under the car so I can stop trying to lay on the pedal, hold myself up with one hand, the filler rod in my teeth... :)

Matt@RFR
10-23-2004, 10:46 PM
Kendall, #'s 4, 5 & 6 down from the top. (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/accessories/remote_controls/)

Re: multiple pass MIG hard wire welds. On that 1/4" butt weld, you'll note that none of the passes are directly on top of each other. One is a root pass...that fills the "gap", or open root of the joint, and is where the full penetration comes from. The second pass is to fill in one side of the joint, and the third to fill in the other side, consequently making a convex weld profile. The welds you referenced are only visually inspected...if they were to be X-ray'd or radiographically tested, they'd grind each pass down to bare, solid metal before the consequent passes. Outside corners are the same.

Multiple pass fillet welds on thicker sections serves only two purposes, and those are to 1) create a larger gusset effect, and 2) to tie more of the two pieces into each other. #2 should not be misinterpreted as more penetration.

If you were to run a fillet or lap weld on, let's say, a tube to plate joint, then run another pass directly over the first, you would be gaining NOTHING. All you're doing is piling up more filler material, with no further penetration.

This is also why it's extremely important to stay in the leading edge of the puddle. If your travel speed is too slow for the amperage you're running, the heat won't get a chance to get into the root of the joint and just pile filler metal on filler metal.

So let's say you have a 110V 135 amp machine, and you weld some 1/2" plate together. You obviously will have too little penetration. Now, go ahead and run 15 more passes. It'll be insignificantly stronger, yes, but it will, in effect, just be a bigger weld with the same lack of penetration. Now, if you ran those same 15 passes directly on top of each other, you wouldn't even have the minute advantage of more surface area tied together.

Multiple passes are NOT a means of making up for having a baby MIG. You need the correct amperage for the sections you're welding.

awr68
10-23-2004, 11:03 PM
Hobart 180 :icon996:

awr68
10-23-2004, 11:08 PM
After doing some research and talking to Matt I bought this one, (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45032&item=3846978266) it should do everything I need and I thought it was a good price especially since it came with the cart and free shipping. I get it Monday...can't wait!!! :)

Matt@RFR
10-23-2004, 11:12 PM
Congrats, you'll love it. Now the next trick is wiring your garage for 220 without blowing the place up. :)

awr68
10-23-2004, 11:25 PM
Thanks!! :)

Actually wiring the 220 is the easy part...laying down a weld like yours is the tuff part!! :)

Thanks again for all your help.

TBART70
10-25-2004, 04:29 PM
Matt i think your getting way too technical for chassis mods. if any person knows how to weld correctly (and i am far from an expert) anything on the cars i work on can be welded with a (quality) 110v. if it were thicker than 1/4 inch it is way to heavy and probably overkill for even an all out race car. have you seen 1/4 to 1/4 plate or tube on a street car? like i said if my car falls apart i would be the first to admit i was wrong. worse off the car would be junk by that point.

TBART70
10-25-2004, 04:36 PM
that hobart looks nice good luck, and not much more money than a 110v. it looks like it has a fine setting for sheet metal, even if you need to weld thin stuff use a backer of copper , i have a spot weld clamp (eastwood) with a copper backer and it takes a higher setting with out blowing through.

68protouring454
10-25-2004, 05:38 PM
i would go no smaller than a 230 volt 175 amp welder, they are not to much more than a 135 and weld so much better, yeah 110's will do it but not like a 175, also most any mig welder below a 250 machine has low enough settings to weld any type of sheetemtal, we're not talking arc welding here!@ on top of that keep using a high heat setting with a copper back plate and you will have warped mess on your hands

Matt@RFR
10-25-2004, 09:02 PM
Matt i think your getting way too technical for chassis mods.

I'm a perfectionist. There is no such thing as 'too technical' to me. I put my opinions on this board for others to sift through and dig out what they think will benifit them. If something I say doesn't apply to you or your project, then ignore it.



If any person knows how to weld correctly...

That's a big 'if'. In giving public advice on welding, I have to assume that the person it's directed to, and the people that might read it, do NOT know how to weld correctly. Anything less would essentially be a disservice to those that, in fact, don't know how to weld correctly. And to be perfectly honest, my guess is that 95% of the time, if someone can't pick out the welder that will fit them best, they're not a professional weldor, and they're probably in need of some help to be proficient in the process.


have you seen 1/4 to 1/4 plate or tube on a street car?

Nope. However, I have seen a lot of 1/4" to 1/8" and 1/4" to .083", and to weld those joints correctly, you need to be running as if you were welding 1/4" to 1/4". Otherwise, you'll get even poorer penetration on the 1/4" member. Ofcourse it depends on what the bracket is suppose to do, but I think you get my drift.


like i said if my car falls apart i would be the first to admit i was wrong.

Why would you even take that risk in the first place???? Yes, driving fast cars is risky in and of itself, but you can minimize risk...and that usually isn't done with a 110v MIG welder when talking about chassis stuff.

ProdigyCustoms
10-26-2004, 03:52 PM
Excellent in depth answer. Probably more in depth then most here can injest, but excellent just the same.

quarterstang86
12-02-2004, 08:00 AM
I just registered on this site: Been hearing about it from a close friend of mine for some time now. Lot of good info here.

After reading this thread - I couldn't agree with Matt more, it makes little sense to say "that'll take care of it" when you are using equipment inadequate for the job to be completed with a high level of detail thus promoting a quality finished product.

I haven't been around any metal shops or completed alot of things personally, but I do have a good standing of common sense. :)

Especially if it comes a car and something traveling at a high rate of speed, it's not worth risking.

IMO.

Matt@RFR
12-02-2004, 09:32 AM
Thanks for the reply, and welcome! Even though you may not have a ton of experience, your thoughts and opinions are allways welcome here.

On a seperate note, we like to have everybody put their real first name in their sig line, but it's totally up to you.

Again, welcome to our little car club!

68LSS1
12-03-2004, 02:05 AM
I'm kicking myself in the butt now for buying the 110 and not saving a little more for the 220 as I thought I'd never need it. And Mr. Perfectionist Matt, you spelled welder "weldor" in your 2nd to last post. :)

Matt@RFR
12-03-2004, 07:08 AM
Brian, it's not in any dictionary, but in the trade, particularly online forums:

Welder = machine

Weldor = person


It sidesteps much confusion when dealing with the written word.

You should have an email this afternoon, by the way.

sanddan
12-03-2004, 07:57 AM
Matt,
As a side note, have you made any progress in training video's for learning Tig welding? A friend got me started with the basic's but I could still use all of the help I can get. Thanks
Dan

KendallF
12-03-2004, 07:58 AM
I just got my new Lincoln Pro-Mig 175 back home and tested it for the first time last night. It welds 1/8" steel beautifully; I'm going to have to fiddle with it a bit to figure out how to weld thin stuff. I tried one butt weld on thin sheet metal and couldn't get consistent results.

For anyone who's considering buying a welder from Ebay, shop carefully. My brand new Lincoln arrived defective (dead short somewhere) and burst into smoke and flames within about 4 seconds of first pulling the trigger! :eek: The seller wouldn't respond to emails or phone calls initially and finally emailed me telling me to that it must've been damaged in shipping and I needed to file a claim with UPS. Doh..it arrived without a scratch. Fortunately Lincoln repaired it under warranty and I was able to take it in locally.

My "Pro" model was cheaper than the SP 175s and I discovered why when I looked at an SP in the local Praxair; the SP has continuously variable voltage and, despite the name, the Pro doesn't.

Matt@RFR
12-03-2004, 09:16 AM
Dan, I haven't had any time to mess around with making any videos....and not having a camera doesn't help matters. :) Shoot me an email. [email protected]



Kendall, good advice. That's the reason I buy locally...support. I'm glad to hear you got it worked out, and that Lincoln honored their warranty! Flames coming out of welders is never good... I once watched a Miller Aerowave ($8000 w/ no accessories) burn to the ground. It was hard wired to a fuse box, and somehow the contacts in the box melted together, so noone could cut power to it in time.

Thin sheet can be tricky. Butt welds are obviously the worst. If this is 18ga or thinner, you have two choices: 1) go faster or 2) short stitch's to make up the weld. Also, going downhill will help a bunch, but speed is still a necessity!

quarterstang86
12-03-2004, 09:37 AM
Thanks for the reply, and welcome! Even though you may not have a ton of experience, your thoughts and opinions are allways welcome here.

On a seperate note, we like to have everybody put their real first name in their sig line, but it's totally up to you.

Again, welcome to our little car club!

Thanks Matt!

I've actually been working with a close friend of mine out of his shop with several projects, it's amazing what you learn just from watching. I'm confident over time I'll be able to hold my own.

I've already put together a plan for my new house garage, think I'll be rolling with the Miller 175 as soon as I get the 220V's installed.

CAMAROBOY69
12-08-2004, 05:09 PM
I have used my 110 for all the bodywork and exhaust work on my vehicles. Just FYI.

DRJDVM's '69
12-12-2004, 04:15 PM
I'm really interested in this topic....

I'm looking for my first welding unit for home use, mostly for automotive work etc and possibly buiding some stuff around the house etc.

I'm not planning on welding anything real "hardcore" such as important suspension stuff or a roll cage etc ( I'm going to leave that up to someone quailified). I'm planning on using it for spot welds, sheetmetal welds (smooth firewall plate, filling in holes, minitub install, patch panels), exhaust work, home made brackets etc etc...

My questions......

(1) My garage has my washer, dryer etc so a 220 plug is near my work space, but was concerned that the welder might not reach to all the areas in my garage I may need to have it.... is there such a thing as an extention cord for 220 ??? I dont want to have to run more 220 outlets around the garage just to get it to reach.

(2) Is it possible for the 220 to be too big for most of the stuff I want to do ??? Most of the stuff I'm going to be welding is pretty thin, so I need to be sure its not too powerful for what I'm going to be using it for most of the time. I dont want to warp everything ot burn through it.

I would rather spend alittle more to get a tool that is capable of more than I will probably use it for but also dont want to buy a unit that is too big for the small stuff I want to do. I'd rather be over prepared for the job, than "just okay" for the job.... but I dont want to "use a 20 lb sledgehammer to drive a finnishing nail" either...

My budget is in the $600-700 range.....

Matt@RFR
12-12-2004, 04:40 PM
You can build your own extension chords very easily. You can either hard wire it to the machine, or plug it into the existing power chord. For a 180 class 220v machine, I'd recommend 8ga wire in a grease, abrasion and UV resistant version. That stuff is killer, and will outlast YOU! :) For what it's worth, I had a 50 foot power chord (8ga) hard wired into my old Miller 180 TIG and it never once got warm to the touch.

Whatever machine you get, check the input load @ max amperage and make sure your dryer breaker is at that number or above.

Now, regarding having a machine too big to do a good job on thin sheetmetal: Look at the bottom end amp numbers on all these MIGs (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/allinone_products.html) and all these power sources. (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/industrial_products.html) My 251 welds 18ga like there's no tommorow WITH .035 WIRE. I'm sure it'd do an even better job if I felt it necessary to change to .023 wire. If nothing else, the bigger machines weld thin sheet BETTER than the smaller machines due to being more accurate and having more adjustability.

69boo307
12-17-2004, 03:26 AM
I made 25 ft. extension cord for my Miller 175 when I bought it, so I could plug into the dryer outlet in my laundry room and reach nearly any point in the garage with it.

I bought 10 guage wire at Home Depot (big, heavy, expensive), and the appropriate plug ends that I needed to match my welder and outlet. For a longer cord, like 50', I'd use 8 guage. The hard part for me was figuring out how to correctly connect the wires, my first attempt was wrong and I was only getting 110 to the welder. The fan would run but it wouldn't weld.

The extension cord cost me about $50 to make, fwiw. Also, note what Matt said about the breaker :). Most new dryer outlets should easily handle a 175amp welder, but check to make sure!

Modo Innovations
12-17-2004, 05:11 PM
Hi all,
I thought I would never need a welder bigger than my Miller 130 when I bought it. Guess what, I wish I would have got a 220v instead. I could kick myself for not going bigger. Its kind of like horsepower, you have more control and you can never enough.
I have welded 3/8" angle to 14ga. sq. tube with my 130 for a roll around fixture that I made for my car when I had the subframe out of it. I did alot of grinding on the 3/8" angle so I would have a valley into the meat of it. Alot of weaving was involved though. Can you imagine the BUTT PUCKER that I had when I set the car on the fixture for the time.....It held up very well. Always get more than you think you will need, if finances will alow.

Shannon