G-Force Cuda

[Steve Chryssos]

I just got my new PHR and I am blown away by the g-Forece cuda coverage. I think it's time to stop talking about Bob Johnson's colon and start taslking about the damn car. So with that I start a new thread. I do so only because I wonder if some will bother to weed thru 50 pages to find the good stuff.

This is NOT another philosophical pro-touring debate, but rather a discussion about a car and its affect on the hot rodding scene in general. Discussion.
Here's how I see it. The general hot rod scene has been dominated by the core Boyd Coddington influence. What might that be? It's the "carved fom a single block" style that has persisted well since the early nineties--and there's nothing wrong with that. Thos who have followed either branched off from that core concept (i.e. Rad Rods) or rebelled entirely (i.e. the Rat Rod)

I'm talkin about body color floorboards and firewalls that are contrasted by shiny billet everything. Engines are hidden by custom, one of a kind covers. If you are not sure what I mean. Look at any of the last few SMOY winners. Roy Pigford's Chevy II is a great example. And a great car.

Stop here and re-read the above. I have not complained, bitched or whined. I simply established a baseline. I'm wondering if the G-Force 'cuda is just another car? Or is it something more? The car breaks that mold with it's design, use of materials, use of colors and finishes and--hopefully with its performance. I really have no doubt that the car will perform. That's because I get the sense that if the g-Force cuda cannot get out of its own way, Bob Johnson will have Alan Johnson (no relation) keep leaning on it until it does perform.

So does this car, with it's coated aluminum firewall, exposed tubing chassis, and functional NA hemi, present a an opportunity for a new era? One where function is beautiful--not something to be hidden by covers? The car has BROWN wheels! How can that possibly be cool? By making that brown loo like some sort of otherworldly unobtanium material. That's how.

I hope that Bob, Alan and all involved can stop by and tell us more about the thought process that evloved during the design and construction of the car. And I, for one, hope that this car does usher in an new era of functional style regardless of the year make or model of the vehicle.

Thanks for building this car you guys

[Bob Johnson]

A million thanks Steve. We wanted to break into unchartered territory.. stimulate the minds of fellow enthusiast to go beyond what others have done..break the mold so to speak. I think we have done this. We have all the naysayer jealous types that don't want to accept it because they can't afford it. Just look the car over close.. there are ideas everywhere that you can put to use.. or something cheaper but similar..These same guys will go look at the concept vehicles at the new car shows and drool over them but they don't like to see their counterparts have something they can't afford. You can't make everyone happy. This Cuda has made a lot of people happy and for that I am glad. The balance of them need professional help and I can't do anything about that but wish them happiness in their sad lives.

[Steve1968LS2]

The car was certainly an inspiration for me.. while I don't have the bank to duplicate almost any of the trick components I did get a feel for a world without chrome and without polished bits. Where parts look like they went from the mill to the car.

A very cool car and definetly a trendsetter in many many ways

[speedster]

FACT - It takes money to implement many new ideas and designs. Most people think that everything can be done on the cheap, and in cases it can, but don't think that corporate America spends billions of dollars on R&D for the ***** of it.

This is also the case with Bob's Cuda. People may bitch and whine because they can't afford it, but then again very few can afford the top vehicles out there. But the ideas that the investment allows you to implement shows up in spades on the Cuda. The other part that gives me a woodie is that this is going to be driven and driven hard. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for show cars. But the Cuda is a people's car; a driver. Very real, very trick and very functional. Heck, look at the titanium brakes. Very pricey, but I didn't even know they existed. But like anything else, this exposes the technologiy to more people. As more people get interested, the price comes down and thus be more affordable for the masses. Someone has to take the plunge initially, Bob through Alan and the Cuda did just this. This is a change. A shift. I think for the better. :twothumbs

[Big $$$]

I've told people the same thing ya'll (sorry I'm from Austin Tx) have. I think rods become like wine and tastes are aquired over the years... My taste level in cars really started to peak when I became open minded. People say "Ima Ford guy" Ima Chevy guy" "Ima import guy" but I wish everyone was really more open minded. These types of builds are really all that stand out to me any more. It kinda sux too becaue I was hoping to be the first to add European style bezels, Ferrari type under body aerodynamics and such, but still it's cool that it was done. When I started looking at Bentleys and Mercedez my taste levels became like a fine wine. I wish more people would look at these builds to get ideas... Now when I go to a car show 99.9 percent of the vehicles don't even phase me, this stuff still does. Even a guy on a budget could get a 71 Cuda, bag it and put the same type of wheels and have the same paint job. If yer gonna run with the big boys do what they do... I think it's a time to get rodding out of the box ...
:thankyou:

[Doug Cooper]

The wheels are painted to match the look of hard anodizing.
Alan wanted to hard anodize them but the finish wasn't uniform, it was blotchy. He matched that look in a painted finish, pretty cool looking.

The entire theme is industrial/aircraft finishes.

[mopork]

Well, I don't care what anyone else thinks that car is total BAD ASS :twothumbs Good Job Bob NOW :3gears:

[vanzuuk1]

I love the car, its one of my all time favorites.

The cuda was concieved like a concept car and there is as much thought into the texture as there is the color. Its a break from the "chrome on chrome" look, thankfully. There have been steps in this direction before (chicayne, pure vision), but this car took it to "eleven".

This hobby is getting "smarter" , for lack of better word, because of cars like this.The fact that Bob is discussing taking the car out for a beating is even cooler.

Not many of can build a car like this but it will inspire people to do something unique. You dont need money to be creative, there was guy a few years back building metric choppers and he used all kinds of spray can colors to get cool shades of bronze and gunmetal. He scotchbrited aluminum parts and mixed finishes to stand out from the airbrush/clearcoat crowd.

I also thought that there was a little "science fiction" feel to the cuda, for lack of a better description.

Its going to be a while before a car makes this much impact on the hobby, if ever.

[Big $$$]

These are the type of vehicles that make a Lamborghini look like a wall flower

[shmoov69]

Amazing car. Nice article too!
I got a Q though about the wheels. What is the line going from the center cap to the wheel in some of the pics?

[Damn True]

Amazing car. Nice article too!
I got a Q though about the wheels. What is the line going from the center cap to the wheel in some of the pics?



Safety wire.

[BRIAN]

The problem is the majority of guys at US based car shows look for the flash of paint and chrome. For years the cars didn't even have to actually drive, just look good. Let's hope the chrome undercarriages and mirrors as hood liners are gone. But by the looks of all the cars with 22" chrome wheels do not expect a quick change.


I actually would rather look at the so called Rat Rod as you can see innovative ways to do things that as a whole make a cool ride rather than that one big dollar billet piece.


That Cuda is a sweet looking car and I can't wait to see it in person. I guess I look at it the other way in that it is the best of the best and why be jealous? If I can build a ride for a 10nth of that money that gets a secound glance at the same show I am happy. You got the money spend it as you see fit.


As far as Boyd goes I honestly feel if it wasn't for him we wouldn't be where we are today with the levl of cars being built. I do not care about TV shows or his quality today. Everybody peaks in their respective field. A lot of talented guys have come out of his shops. Read any pre Boyd magazine and all you saw were Moroso valve covers and Centerline wheels.

By the way the wire is to hold the K/O from backing off....At least that is what I think it is for???

[Bob Johnson]

The car was certainly an inspiration for me.. while I don't have the bank to duplicate almost any of the trick components I did get a feel for a world without chrome and without polished bits. Where parts look like they went from the mill to the car.

A very cool car and definetly a trendsetter in many many ways
accolades from anyone are nice..but from someone that knows his stuff, that makes it real special...

[Bob Johnson]

FACT - It takes money to implement many new ideas and designs. Most people think that everything can be done on the cheap, and in cases it can, but don't think that corporate America spends billions of dollars on R&D for the ***** of it.

This is also the case with Bob's Cuda. People may bitch and whine because they can't afford it, but then again very few can afford the top vehicles out there. But the ideas that the investment allows you to implement shows up in spades on the Cuda. The other part that gives me a woodie is that this is going to be driven and driven hard. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for show cars. But the Cuda is a people's car; a driver. Very real, very trick and very functional. Heck, look at the titanium brakes. Very pricey, but I didn't even know they existed. But like anything else, this exposes the technologiy to more people. As more people get interested, the price comes down and thus be more affordable for the masses. Someone has to take the plunge initially, Bob through Alan and the Cuda did just this. This is a change. A shift. I think for the better. :twothumbs
I love to see a guy do super cool stuff on the cheap..and it isn't easy..you don't see many innovative ideas that are done on the cheap but when you do, it excites you. But I also want to see what an experienced creative imagination can accomplish with unlimited funds and boundless talent. My Camaro had some super neat ideas in it..ie the air cleaner built into the cowl on the hood..the 17 gallon custom fuel tank Alan built under the package tray in the front of the trunk that connected to the lower factory gas tank with a fuel line and petcock. I could keep 110 or ? in the top tank and add 2 or whatever gallons just by opening the valve and let it drain into the lower tank to blend the octane and get a little lead in the gas. neat trick when you have a motor that's on the edge of detonating and need a little boost in octane. I drove the whole Power Tour without having to look for race gas. The all aluminum Donovan ran great the whole way too.

[speedster]

Hey Bob -
Sometime in your busy schedule, could you post or send me a couple of pics of that dual tank setup. I was thinking of somehow tying a 2-5 gallon tank into the main tank and you already did it. Cool. That was on the black '69? I will have to go dig around and see if I can find that issue. TIA.

[Bob Johnson]

I've told people the same thing ya'll (sorry I'm from Austin Tx) have. I think rods become like wine and tastes are aquired over the years... My taste level in cars really started to peak when I became open minded. People say "Ima Ford guy" Ima Chevy guy" "Ima import guy" but I wish everyone was really more open minded. These types of builds are really all that stand out to me any more. It kinda sux too becaue I was hoping to be the first to add European style bezels, Ferrari type under body aerodynamics and such, but still it's cool that it was done. When I started looking at Bentleys and Mercedez my taste levels became like a fine wine. I wish more people would look at these builds to get ideas... Now when I go to a car show 99.9 percent of the vehicles don't even phase me, this stuff still does. Even a guy on a budget could get a 71 Cuda, bag it and put the same type of wheels and have the same paint job. If yer gonna run with the big boys do what they do... I think it's a time to get rodding out of the box ...
:thankyou:
I have built several Fords..just sold my 69 Camaro..just finished the Cuda..I have a 65 GT 350 Shelby Mustang that I need to build. I'm building a flat nose 930 Turbo Porsche now too. I drive a Rambler Wagon. I like Hondas, Preludes, Lexus, Nissans etc when they are done right..I like Mini Coopers..Jap and Harley motorcycles.. anything done correctly..I agree that anyone who only likes one type or brand of car is missing out on the variety we enjoy.

[Bob Johnson]

that's what it's for..any car with true knock-offs should have to be safety wired to keep the knock off from backing off.

[Bob Johnson]

Hey Bob -
Sometime in your busy schedule, could you post or send me a couple of pics of that dual tank setup. I was thinking of somehow tying a 2-5 gallon tank into the main tank and you already did it. Cool. That was on the black '69? I will have to go dig around and see if I can find that issue. TIA.
look under the dse closeout thread posted under this same group. There is a link to a picture of the trunk and the tank..we put the radio amplifiers on the face of it in the trunk. you can see the gas cap and inlet neck on the top of the tank..the petcock and gas line is on the left side and goes thru the trunk floor to the factory tank. We ran the direct port nitrous off the high octane gas exclusively. If you ran 100 octane you could just leave the petcock open and have 34+ gallons of fuel capacity. It really didn't adversely affect the trunk space that much since it was on the front ledge.

[Bob Johnson]

The problem is the majority of guys at US based car shows look for the flash of paint and chrome. For years the cars didn't even have to actually drive, just look good. Let's hope the chrome undercarriages and mirrors as hood liners are gone. But by the looks of all the cars with 22" chrome wheels do not expect a quick change.


I actually would rather look at the so called Rat Rod as you can see innovative ways to do things that as a whole make a cool ride rather than that one big dollar billet piece.


That Cuda is a sweet looking car and I can't wait to see it in person. I guess I look at it the other way in that it is the best of the best and why be jealous? If I can build a ride for a 10nth of that money that gets a secound glance at the same show I am happy. You got the money spend it as you see fit.


As far as Boyd goes I honestly feel if it wasn't for him we wouldn't be where we are today with the levl of cars being built. I do not care about TV shows or his quality today. Everybody peaks in their respective field. A lot of talented guys have come out of his shops. Read any pre Boyd magazine and all you saw were Moroso valve covers and Centerline wheels.

By the way the wire is to hold the K/O from backing off....At least that is what I think it is for???
You are absolutely correct about Boyd..he was the man in his day. Lots of innovation came out of that shop "in the day"..

[Bob Johnson]

The problem is the majority of guys at US based car shows look for the flash of paint and chrome. For years the cars didn't even have to actually drive, just look good. Let's hope the chrome undercarriages and mirrors as hood liners are gone. But by the looks of all the cars with 22" chrome wheels do not expect a quick change.


I actually would rather look at the so called Rat Rod as you can see innovative ways to do things that as a whole make a cool ride rather than that one big dollar billet piece.


That Cuda is a sweet looking car and I can't wait to see it in person. I guess I look at it the other way in that it is the best of the best and why be jealous? If I can build a ride for a 10nth of that money that gets a secound glance at the same show I am happy. You got the money spend it as you see fit.


As far as Boyd goes I honestly feel if it wasn't for him we wouldn't be where we are today with the levl of cars being built. I do not care about TV shows or his quality today. Everybody peaks in their respective field. A lot of talented guys have come out of his shops. Read any pre Boyd magazine and all you saw were Moroso valve covers and Centerline wheels.

By the way the wire is to hold the K/O from backing off....At least that is what I think it is for???
The problem with rat rods is that nearly all of the innovations are nostalga driven..not engineering driven..lots of scary stuff on those babies. not made to be driven hard..just look cool..guys on this site seem to be into cars that are driven hard. now rat pro touring as some of these guys are invisioning..that's a different story all together.

[CYorek]

Well Bob i guess since all my fellow New York hot rod buddies decided to join in on the fun i figure i might as well too, Congrats on the article I love your car and hope to someday put that kind of influence on the auto industry. I met you in columbus i was parked with Doug and Ron and was hanging out under the snap-on tent on saturday. Hope to see you guys some more this season as soon as i get out of this frozen tundra known as detroit. -Chris Yorek

[Rick Dorion]

The Cuda inspired me to begin going over powdercoating and painting colors other than black, gray, etc. for my front RS headlight covers and grill. This will include the 'chrome' headlight cover inserts too. I like the titantium look. So, in one small way, this car has influenced my direction. Thanks, Bob!

I've reread the article several time and studied the pictures. Can't get enough. The seats seem low-backed in the article. Is that correct or just due to the pic perspective?

[ProTouring442]

I love the car! For that matter, I love any car that is done well. It doesn't matter to me if it is a trailer queen, some hi-tec billet-mobile, a tuner honda, vintage Ferrari, kit-car, or whatever. If it's done well, I love it! My car incorporates little tricks I thought up, copied from some magazine or show-car, or purchased from a catalog. I can't afford the perfection paint or $10,000 wheels, but I try to make my car look nice and perform well. It will never win some great award, but when I grin while my foot is on the right pedal it will all be worth it! That 'Cuda is more boutique (like a Rad Rides or Foose-like car) and mine is more home grown, but hey, what's wrong with that! Cars are kind of like people, if you only hang out with one type, life gets a bit boring!


Congrats to Bob for building, be it by labor or checkbook, a car that is bit different, but not different just to ba different. Ya done good!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Bob Johnson]

The Cuda inspired me to begin going over powdercoating and painting colors other than black, gray, etc. for my front RS headlight covers and grill. This will include the 'chrome' headlight cover inserts too. I like the titantium look. So, in one small way, this car has influenced my direction. Thanks, Bob!

I've reread the article several time and studied the pictures. Can't get enough. The seats seem low-backed in the article. Is that correct or just due to the pic perspective?
They are about the height of the top of the inner door panel. I just don't like the look of a seat sticking up in the back window of a pick-up or looking into a car and seeing seats sticking up way past the top of the door.

[Bob Johnson]

I love the car! For that matter, I love any car that is done well. It doesn't matter to me if it is a trailer queen, some hi-tec billet-mobile, a tuner honda, vintage Ferrari, kit-car, or whatever. If it's done well, I love it! My car incorporates little tricks I thought up, copied from some magazine or show-car, or purchased from a catalog. I can't afford the perfection paint or $10,000 wheels, but I try to make my car look nice and perform well. It will never win some great award, but when I grin while my foot is on the right pedal it will all be worth it! That 'Cuda is more boutique (like a Rad Rides or Foose-like car) and mine is more home grown, but hey, what's wrong with that! Cars are kind of like people, if you only hang out with one type, life gets a bit boring!


Congrats to Bob for building, be it by labor or checkbook, a car that is bit different, but not different just to ba different. Ya done good!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill
there's absolutely nothing wrong with a well thought out car that's not high buck. It's not all about money. I have a 66 Rambler that I drive quite a bit and love it. It's was built by Warren Johnson's nephew..very low buck but super nice clean workmanship. Little 390 engine is the same size as their 289..(all AMC engines had the same size block externally) from 289 to 401. Car goes like stink..it's different, well done though not high buck and I love it. Strange as it might seem, I have enjoyed my low buck stuff just as much as the high buck stuff..you worry too much when you drive the big $ stuff. Plenty of ways to do nice things without spending big bucks. It's nice that you don't cop an attitude with people that do. That healthy perspective is what will drive this hobby to new heights.

[Bob Johnson]

The Cuda inspired me to begin going over powdercoating and painting colors other than black, gray, etc. for my front RS headlight covers and grill. This will include the 'chrome' headlight cover inserts too. I like the titantium look. So, in one small way, this car has influenced my direction. Thanks, Bob!

I've reread the article several time and studied the pictures. Can't get enough. The seats seem low-backed in the article. Is that correct or just due to the pic perspective?
Thanks..it's rewarding to see others inspired and learn from what we have done. I love the RS Camaros..bug eyes too..bothers me to see guys changing their stuff around just for the sake of change. to me if it's not an improvement, why change it. I'm like you, I don't like too much shiny stuff. The satin or brushed type finishes just look more businesslike. I like the industrial/aircraft look, but not the old euro/monochromatic look. I wish I had a portion of Alan and Tony's skills..It would be very rewarding to be able to do this stuff. I just never had the patience and was too busy trying to make a living for my family.

[Ronald Winter]

hi bob ,cogradulations on the phr article - you and alan deserve it. It's nice to see such a colorful ambassador to the sport, and I don't mean your shirts.

[Bob Johnson]

Thanks you big goon..why didn't you come down with Doug..we missed you..I forgot..you have to work for a living, unlike Doug who has already made his fortune. I guess he told you, we sold him another toy. He went to Miltons..got him thinking how nice it would be to have all the room in the world to put up buildings and room for horses etc. Wonder how the Boys, girl, and mom would be down here in COOTERVILLE..

[Ronald Winter]

I plan on going down to alan's in a few weeks to see my 32 - maybe I'll come by for the tour- say hello to lamar and john. looking forward to seeing the 37 slantback. Did alan look at the 67 chevelle for me while he was there?

[KILLER06MUSTANG]

who is this ronald winter guy bob, a friend of yours or my dads maybe

[syborg tt]

I've spent a bunch of time studying this car and many other on the internet for the last 6 years. Something to do while my little one's were growing up. Call me a research junkie or just abby normal. I've learned alot looking a pictures and hanging out a local shops. There are some great books on the market that you can learn so much from. Both Build Books and the How to books by Tony Huntimar. If you want to learn something go to everyshow you can and look to see what everyone is doing.

Here are some of the quote from Bob about his car from the other thread

900+horse without nitrous all aluminum HEMI

6,000+ hours(8 months full time build)

1.5(or something) chopped roof, stock windshield, lexan rear glass

AME full frame, with C5 front suspension, and C5 Transaxle!!

Full Carbon Fiber front clip, fenders hood, inner fenders CF inserts on top of door

devil brakes (weigh about 10 ilbs per corner, titanium rotors etc...

5" ground clearance

Has PPG paint

So that's for the carbon piece all the way across the back? That is understandable, there is alot of time in building the mold. Did they use foam or clay to shape the piece before they made the mold? Did they pull the mold right off the car?

The rear body panel was ready for paint. The surface was built up .020" using tooling wax and the mold was made from this surface. The finished part is just .030" and fit perfect. Doug Groh of 3 G Services in MI did all the carbon work. He is a member here but I don't know his user name.

The car was sectioned from the doors forward. Zero at the quarters, 1 1/4" at the front of door and around 3 1/2" at the front. The lower body line on the doors and fenders was moved down to get the proportions right. The front wheel wells have been moved 4" forward and 1" up. The front 10" of the fenders have been pulled in to slim up the profile around the grill.

The tires on it are what comes on the new Porsche Carrera GT Supercar..295X30X19 front..335X30X20 rear....The are Michelin PS2's..best tire Michelin makes..rated 220MPH or so..

originally Posted by F70t/a
Who made the Carbon Fiber parts for the cuda?

3 G Services..Detroit Michigan..w.734-947-9434 mob 734-262-4280 Doug Groh
He was introduced to us by Chris Itoh..Chris is the designer of the Cuda..his day job is Head designer @ Peterbilt Trucks..Chris knew him when Chris was working in Detroit. We looked at a lot of Carbon Fiber Work..3 G's work was the best. You won't see this quality Carbon very often. His business is slow as is everything in Detroit..He can get right on a project without any wait time..

We had everyone in the shop to sit in the car during the build up. The tallest is 6'5" and fits ok, but it was much more comfortable for ones 6' and under. The inner rocker panels were fabbed from 14ga steel when they were off for the sectioning. At each end of the rocker a piece of 3/16" plate was welded, drilled and tapped for six 1/4" bolts to the rocker and one 5/8" bolt into the top of the frame rail. The mount is basically a piece of 3/16" angle with the sides gusseted. There's one of these at the front and rear of the rocker. The vary rear of the car is supported with 2" x 4" outriggers bolted to the frame. The rear body is reinforced with a top hat shaped crossmember in the floor and ties into the quarter panels and rear body bracing. The body has been braced with various sizes of tubing to give the body some strength when it isn't mounted to the frame. The body also is sandwiched between the front down tubes at the firewall and bolts to the rear main bar !
under the back glass.
ut bolting up the frame to the body?

The firewall Structure is .750 x .125 angle around the parimeter with .750 x 16 quage tube for bracing. The angle is plug welded every 2" to the sheetmetal and drilled every 3" to the firewall. The aluminum firewall is .750 also with most of the reccessed areas .375 deep, some area's are machined deeper for clearence. The aluminum Firewall is blind tapped from the rear to bolt in with 1/4-20 fasteners.

Keith Turk from the ECTA Maxton N. C. came by Alan Johnson's shop to inspect the Cuda and advise us what needed to be done to get it to pass inspection for a 200 + MPH run. We are going to put in a supplemental bolt in main hoop for the cage, install a window net, add another fire system for under the hood, get a chute..we already made provisions to mount it..secure the front and rear windscreens, racing seat..few other misc and sundry items..

Sorry it has taken so long to get this posted. These photos are a brief overview of sectioning the body. The quarters were not sectioned. The rockers were removed at the seam where they attach to the quarter panel. The inner rocker was replaced with a piece of 14ga to give some strength to it since it would no longer be a unibody . The cowl was sectioned around 1 3/8". I didn't worry about the firewall or original floor since it was all getting replaced. Sectioning the cowl and relocating the rockers was easy, the door frames were another story. I will be posting all of the construction photos on my website eventually, there are over 3 gig of photos.

The pedals and master cylinders are from Tilton . The master cylinders pivot on rod ends and have a balance bar for front to rear bias, nice setup but pricey http://www.tiltonracing.com/content.php?page=list2&id=3&m=b
direct port..it's plumbed under the intake..Hogan welded in the bungs when he built the intake..the regular injector nozzles are under there too..out of site where they don't distract from the look,,we've got to have that clean uncluttered look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtieracing
I checked the Bob gallery again. I beleive they used still transmission at rear. Your plan is to use only the rear end gear and connect yoke to that.



Our trans is in the rear..for weight distribution purposes..used a lakewood direct drive dragster scattershield with a Lenco spline input shaft hooked to the universal yoke on the driveshaft..that way we could get the 3.5" exhaust and the driveshaft in the tunnel.

ps - there is nothing wrong with me i am just a person who takes a lot of notes.

[BRIAN]

The problem is there are a lot of Pro Shoppers out there who never finish a car and it is a shame. I guess I agree that the Rat Rods are a bit unsafe but some you can stare at for hours and not see it all. From what I have seen of your car it has the same idea but on a much higher level. Hopefully the magnesium or carbon parts will work together and be as attractive to the majority as chrome and poilsh are.

I would have to say no as with my own Rambler all I hear is, if you put some bags and 20's I will buy it or it would look killer. If I had a dollar for every one of those comments I could afford your Cuda. I build cars and love doing it. The biggest reward is having someone who actually builds cars come up and notice a subtle touch that too hours to create not buy.


Still waiting for someone here to take a stock platform and use engineering instead of money and then put the car through whatever tests and impress the hell out of everybody. Some come close but I would love to see that low buck Rat tourer that simply kicks ass in engineering and driveability. The 335 vs 345 on a Camaro tire debate gets a little old.

[Bob Johnson]

Well Bob i guess since all my fellow New York hot rod buddies decided to join in on the fun i figure i might as well too, Congrats on the article I love your car and hope to someday put that kind of influence on the auto industry. I met you in columbus i was parked with Doug and Ron and was hanging out under the snap-on tent on saturday. Hope to see you guys some more this season as soon as i get out of this frozen tundra known as detroit. -Chris Yorek
we'll be at a bunch of places this year..look forward to seeing you again

[Bob Johnson]

The problem is there are a lot of Pro Shoppers out there who never finish a car and it is a shame. I guess I agree that the Rat Rods are a bit unsafe but some you can stare at for hours and not see it all. From what I have seen of your car it has the same idea but on a much higher level. Hopefully the magnesium or carbon parts will work together and be as attractive to the majority as chrome and poilsh are.

I would have to say no as with my own Rambler all I hear is, if you put some bags and 20's I will buy it or it would look killer. If I had a dollar for every one of those comments I could afford your Cuda. I build cars and love doing it. The biggest reward is having someone who actually builds cars come up and notice a subtle touch that too hours to create not buy.


Still waiting for someone here to take a stock platform and use engineering instead of money and then put the car through whatever tests and impress the hell out of everybody. Some come close but I would love to see that low buck Rat tourer that simply kicks ass in engineering and driveability. The 335 vs 345 on a Camaro tire debate gets a little old.
Have you seen Jeff Isaacs yellow with orange stripes Camaro..It was in PHR about 4 months ago. He is a good friend and lives near me. It's low buck and runs like snot..handles great too..He just painted it..should have left it alone...he's supposed to put it on here..I'll have to get on him again

[Bob Johnson]

I've spent a bunch of time studying this car and many other on the internet for the last 6 years. Something to do while my little one's were growing up. Call me a research junkie or just abby normal. I've learned alot looking a pictures and hanging out a local shops. There are some great books on the market that you can learn so much from. Both Build Books and the How to books by Tony Huntimar. If you want to learn something go to everyshow you can and look to see what everyone is doing.

Here are some of the quote from Bob about his car from the other thread

900+horse without nitrous all aluminum HEMI

6,000+ hours(8 months full time build)

1.5(or something) chopped roof, stock windshield, lexan rear glass

AME full frame, with C5 front suspension, and C5 Transaxle!!

Full Carbon Fiber front clip, fenders hood, inner fenders CF inserts on top of door

devil brakes (weigh about 10 ilbs per corner, titanium rotors etc...

5" ground clearance

Has PPG paint

So that's for the carbon piece all the way across the back? That is understandable, there is alot of time in building the mold. Did they use foam or clay to shape the piece before they made the mold? Did they pull the mold right off the car?

The rear body panel was ready for paint. The surface was built up .020" using tooling wax and the mold was made from this surface. The finished part is just .030" and fit perfect. Doug Groh of 3 G Services in MI did all the carbon work. He is a member here but I don't know his user name.

The car was sectioned from the doors forward. Zero at the quarters, 1 1/4" at the front of door and around 3 1/2" at the front. The lower body line on the doors and fenders was moved down to get the proportions right. The front wheel wells have been moved 4" forward and 1" up. The front 10" of the fenders have been pulled in to slim up the profile around the grill.

The tires on it are what comes on the new Porsche Carrera GT Supercar..295X30X19 front..335X30X20 rear....The are Michelin PS2's..best tire Michelin makes..rated 220MPH or so..

originally Posted by F70t/a
Who made the Carbon Fiber parts for the cuda?

3 G Services..Detroit Michigan..w.734-947-9434 mob 734-262-4280 Doug Groh
He was introduced to us by Chris Itoh..Chris is the designer of the Cuda..his day job is Head designer @ Peterbilt Trucks..Chris knew him when Chris was working in Detroit. We looked at a lot of Carbon Fiber Work..3 G's work was the best. You won't see this quality Carbon very often. His business is slow as is everything in Detroit..He can get right on a project without any wait time..

We had everyone in the shop to sit in the car during the build up. The tallest is 6'5" and fits ok, but it was much more comfortable for ones 6' and under. The inner rocker panels were fabbed from 14ga steel when they were off for the sectioning. At each end of the rocker a piece of 3/16" plate was welded, drilled and tapped for six 1/4" bolts to the rocker and one 5/8" bolt into the top of the frame rail. The mount is basically a piece of 3/16" angle with the sides gusseted. There's one of these at the front and rear of the rocker. The vary rear of the car is supported with 2" x 4" outriggers bolted to the frame. The rear body is reinforced with a top hat shaped crossmember in the floor and ties into the quarter panels and rear body bracing. The body has been braced with various sizes of tubing to give the body some strength when it isn't mounted to the frame. The body also is sandwiched between the front down tubes at the firewall and bolts to the rear main bar !
under the back glass.
ut bolting up the frame to the body?

The firewall Structure is .750 x .125 angle around the parimeter with .750 x 16 quage tube for bracing. The angle is plug welded every 2" to the sheetmetal and drilled every 3" to the firewall. The aluminum firewall is .750 also with most of the reccessed areas .375 deep, some area's are machined deeper for clearence. The aluminum Firewall is blind tapped from the rear to bolt in with 1/4-20 fasteners.

Keith Turk from the ECTA Maxton N. C. came by Alan Johnson's shop to inspect the Cuda and advise us what needed to be done to get it to pass inspection for a 200 + MPH run. We are going to put in a supplemental bolt in main hoop for the cage, install a window net, add another fire system for under the hood, get a chute..we already made provisions to mount it..secure the front and rear windscreens, racing seat..few other misc and sundry items..

Sorry it has taken so long to get this posted. These photos are a brief overview of sectioning the body. The quarters were not sectioned. The rockers were removed at the seam where they attach to the quarter panel. The inner rocker was replaced with a piece of 14ga to give some strength to it since it would no longer be a unibody . The cowl was sectioned around 1 3/8". I didn't worry about the firewall or original floor since it was all getting replaced. Sectioning the cowl and relocating the rockers was easy, the door frames were another story. I will be posting all of the construction photos on my website eventually, there are over 3 gig of photos.

The pedals and master cylinders are from Tilton . The master cylinders pivot on rod ends and have a balance bar for front to rear bias, nice setup but pricey http://www.tiltonracing.com/content.php?page=list2&id=3&m=b
direct port..it's plumbed under the intake..Hogan welded in the bungs when he built the intake..the regular injector nozzles are under there too..out of site where they don't distract from the look,,we've got to have that clean uncluttered look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtieracing
I checked the Bob gallery again. I beleive they used still transmission at rear. Your plan is to use only the rear end gear and connect yoke to that.



Our trans is in the rear..for weight distribution purposes..used a lakewood direct drive dragster scattershield with a Lenco spline input shaft hooked to the universal yoke on the driveshaft..that way we could get the 3.5" exhaust and the driveshaft in the tunnel.

ps - there is nothing wrong with me i am just a person who takes a lot of notes.
I wish the 6,000 man hours was true..it looks like double that now by the time we're done..

[Bob Johnson]

:rotfl:
who is this ronald winter guy bob, a friend of yours or my dads maybe
He's the guy you look up too..visually that is. your dad and I are the ones you look up to as hero worship..lol

[Bob Johnson]

I plan on going down to alan's in a few weeks to see my 32 - maybe I'll come by for the tour- say hello to lamar and john. looking forward to seeing the 37 slantback. Did alan look at the 67 chevelle for me while he was there?
I told him to..but I'm not sure..you're going to have to lay some kinda tile if you get 2 projects going at one time..I've been there..spooky..asian massage community went into recession..

[Doug Cooper]

hi bob ,cogradulations on the phr article - you and alan deserve it. It's nice to see such a colorful ambassador to the sport, and I don't mean your shirts.


Ron, I took pictures for you of your car in it's current stage. Don't waste the gas not much has changed. Doug

[Bob Johnson]

Ron, I took pictures for you of your car in it's current stage. Don't waste the gas not much has changed. Doug
my bank account has changed..be glad when Alan gets on your and big Ron's tits..mine's getting sore..The big question..how much has changed on that Cuda? You coming back down next Monday for the Dyno Test? Bringing Mutt and Jeff? Drag Ron with you..make him pay half the gas..

[JoshStratton]

Hey Bob,

Since you basically put 'Sickfish' to shame, how bout taking all of the pictures and compiled data, and putting out a build book for us to buy and help pay for that 65 Mustang 350 build.

I may have missed it somewhere, but do you have a web site or a link with your build pics?

[kennyd]

this car raised the bar two more steps , the last car that made a step on the bar was the troys 62 .
congrats. bob and allan

[Bob Johnson]

Hey Bob,

Since you basically put 'Sickfish' to shame, how bout taking all of the pictures and compiled data, and putting out a build book for us to buy and help pay for that 65 Mustang 350 build.

I may have missed it somewhere, but do you have a web site or a link with your build pics?
i have a web site but It's just for selling cars..ciacars.com..Alan is going to get some more pix of the car on his site if he can get his geek to get them on there. I know Shannon is having problems getting the same guy to get his going. don't know if he does this part time or what the hold up is. Alan took tons of pix during the build. Maybe I should get the guy that does the motorcycle build books to do one. It would be very interesting and imformative for sure.

[Bob Johnson]

this car raised the bar two more steps , the last car that made a step on the bar was the troys 62 .
congrats. bob and allan
Troy has raised bars several times..so has Alan in my eyes. I really think Alan has done it this time. He went way over the top. I don't know if there is another shop that can do what he did and especially all in house like he did. Lots of talent and imagination in that shop..I'm glad that to be associated with them..

[kennyd]

Troy has raised bars several times..so has Alan in my eyes. I really think Alan has done it this time. He went way over the top. I don't know if there is another shop that can do what he did and especially all in house like he did. Lots of talent and imagination in that shop..I'm glad that to be associated with them..

it also helps having a owner that will allow the funding so the shop can afford to raise the bar .

[Travis B]

i have a web site but It's just for selling cars..ciacars.com..Alan is going to get some more pix of the car on his site if he can get his geek to get them on there. I know Shannon is having problems getting the same guy to get his going. don't know if he does this part time or what the hold up is. Alan took tons of pix during the build. Maybe I should get the guy that does the motorcycle build books to do one. It would be very interesting and imformative for sure.


this same "GEEK" that you speak of is the same guy that has been working on our site for what seems like years........In his defense I believe he does do it part time, however it seems as though he stopped all together

[syborg tt]

this same "GEEK" that you speak of is the same guy that has been working on our site for what seems like years........In his defense I believe he does do it part time, however it seems as though he stopped all together

Most of the shops already have websites. I am still unclear as why all othe shop owners think they need a "Geek" to upload pics to there site. There are plenty of software gallery that dont use that $hitty flash page that makes those "Geeks" so valuable.

If you guy's need a gallery webpage set up it can be done in about an hour and piggyback off your current website. The all you have to do is upload your pictures to the webiste when you go to bed at night. It painless simple and easy to do. And the best part is it's not that $hitty flash photo gallery and you can do it yourself.

Trust me on this as i have over 12,000 images on my website and i didn't need a geek to load all the pics.

PS if you can't tell i truly "hate!" flash web pages for photo's

http://www.sportmachines.com/gallery/

www.syborgtwinturbo.com (http://www.syborgtwinturbo.com)

[Scott Parkhurst]

That's all I can say. Dang.

Read it as: "Almost speechless...with a Southern twang"

Bob- You and Alan outdid yourselves. Again.

I like the fact it's got lots of "kustom" touches normally reserved for a different flavor of car, yet they're all functional in this case.

I like that it will actually be pushed to perform.

I like the fact that the guys behind the car are "real" guys who challenge themselves to continually do better, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

Dang...

~SP~

[MarkM66]

They are about the height of the top of the inner door panel. I just don't like the look of a seat sticking up in the back window of a pick-up or looking into a car and seeing seats sticking up way past the top of the door.

Bob,

As far as not having head rest. What do the safety inspectors think of this? Are they not a requirment?

[JoshStratton]

Bob,

As far as not having head rest. What do the safety inspectors think of this? Are they not a requirment?

That is what I wondered too. I LOVE those seats. I think those are among my favorite parts. Are they 100% custom or are they rebuilt off of something else?

What happens when you hit the gas on that 800 hp bahemieth and your neck snaps back?

[F70t/a]

Bob has a sexy lady holding his neck when he gets on the cuda :drool:

[Bob Johnson]

it also helps having a owner that will allow the funding so the shop can afford to raise the bar .
That is at least 50% of the equation isn't it..You've got to be crazy to spend this kind of money on a car. Rule of thumb is you're luck to get half your investment back..Let's face it, we don't do this for an investment..

[Bob Johnson]

this same "GEEK" that you speak of is the same guy that has been working on our site for what seems like years........In his defense I believe he does do it part time, however it seems as though he stopped all together
maybe we better call in the GEEK SQUAD!!!!

[Bob Johnson]

That's all I can say. Dang.

Read it as: "Almost speechless...with a Southern twang"

Bob- You and Alan outdid yourselves. Again.

I like the fact it's got lots of "kustom" touches normally reserved for a different flavor of car, yet they're all functional in this case.

I like that it will actually be pushed to perform.

I like the fact that the guys behind the car are "real" guys who challenge themselves to continually do better, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

Dang...

~SP~
Good to read your words again..PHR readers miss you..I hope to see you at some of the events this year. Are you going to Detroit? Alan is too busy but Doug, his twin boys, and I are going up I think. I'm not really an indoor show kind of guy, but The Detroit Show is the big Kahuna of indoor shows. I can't go to the Grand National Roadster Show every year because it conflicts with Barrett Jackson. I used to go to Atlantic City every year and it conflicted with the Ridler Show. Let's hook up and I'll buy you a beer..Like to hear about your new magazine and how it's going...

[Bob Johnson]

Bob,

As far as not having head rest. What do the safety inspectors think of this? Are they not a requirment?
We have a Kirkey Racing Seat to use when we compete..We also have a bolt in supplemental roll cage with the head restraint stuff built in. Got to have a window net, secure all the glass in the car, chute, etc..I wish I hadn't shot off my mouth about competing with it..it's so nice I feel guilty..plus to set it up is very expensive since you just can't do it like on a race car. It has to be real pretty you know...I even had to build another complete front end in case this one gets damaged. With that exposed carbon fiber, can't just repair it and paint it like it was fiberglass.

[Bob Johnson]

That is what I wondered too. I LOVE those seats. I think those are among my favorite parts. Are they 100% custom or are they rebuilt off of something else?

What happens when you hit the gas on that 800 hp bahemieth and your neck snaps back?
We discussed these seats earlier in one of the threads. They were aftermarket seats that Paul Atkins modified. I've got a fairly fat strong neck and my brain isn't very big so I don't forsee a problem. When we compete, the Kirkey seat is high back and we have a head restraint system on it..hans device too..

[KILLER06MUSTANG]

Bob what tme do u get into detroit and what time does your flight leave?

[Bob Johnson]

Bob has a sexy lady holding his neck when he gets on the cuda :drool:
If I ever get a sexy one in there, I hope it's not the head that sits on top of my neck she's holding

[F70t/a]

If I ever get a sexy one in there, I hope it's not the head that sits on top of my neck she's holding



LMFAO :lol:

[Doug Cooper]

Bob what tme do u get into detroit and what time does your flight leave?

Bob don't answer him he already knows! Doug

[CYorek]

Hey Doug when do you guys arrive in detroit? my dad and his buddies are coming in friday around 11am. We are planning on going up to Kart2Kart somtime in the afternoon its a killer indoor go kart track with racing style karts, if you and the boys are in by then you should try and meet us its going to be a blast. Let me know if your interested i could give you directions. If not hopfully well run into you at the show. later Chris Yorek

[Travis B]

Just got the mag last night.....

Very cool stuff in there, The aluminum bumpers were trick as could be...I would have never thought of that in a million years. Didn't they use to do that on some factory race cars???? Never noticed the dual speedos either, gauges are too cool! Why did you guys wrap the exhaust verses coating it with something??? Was that Dougs B400 I spotted in the background of the shop pic.......

Once again congrats to Bob and the guys at JHRS killer car!

[Scott Parkhurst]

Good to read your words again..PHR readers miss you..I hope to see you at some of the events this year. Are you going to Detroit? Alan is too busy but Doug, his twin boys, and I are going up I think. I'm not really an indoor show kind of guy, but The Detroit Show is the big Kahuna of indoor shows.

I went last year, but this year I've got a conflicting event I'm already committed to. I have a couple guys covering the event for me, but I'll not be I'll be back in Detroit for Woodward though...


I can't go to the Grand National Roadster Show every year because it conflicts with Barrett Jackson. I used to go to Atlantic City every year and it conflicted with the Ridler Show. Let's hook up and I'll buy you a beer..Like to hear about your new magazine and how it's going...

I look forward to hanging out with you, too Amigo! Beer is always a good idea...We'll surely connect at one of the events on the calendar - hopefully sooner than later. I'll make a point of it!

~SP~

[Bob Johnson]

I look forward to hanging out with you, too Amigo! Beer is always a good idea...We'll surely connect at one of the events on the calendar - hopefully sooner than later. I'll make a point of it!

~SP~
Maybe we can get some wings to boot..Then Hunkins will come along..That man can do some eating..I cannot believe how much he can put away..I wish you smooth sailing on your new magazine..

[preston]

Do you know what the front track width is ?


Be interesting to get a real world weight on the car as well.
I'll eat my hat if it weighs less than 3000 !

Are the side windows glass or lexan, and are they rollup ? Thought I saw power switches in the interior.

Has the car been driven yet ?

[Steve1968LS2]

I'll eat my hat if it weighs less than 3000 !


I heard it was 2800lbs without the driver.. want some gravy on that hat??? lol

Maybe Bob could pipe in with the official weight of the car..

[F70t/a]

With that weight and power that thing is gonna be wicked fast!!! Back to the future part 4 :rolleyes:

[Bob Johnson]

Aluminum was used on 60's Factory drag cars..Chevy Z-ll's had alum fenders and bumpers as did the early 60's Pontiac Super Duty cars and Mopar Max Wedges..Ford used glass fenders..It doesn't have dual speedos..the top half of the center guage is the tach..The guage to the right is the speedo..bottom of center guage and left guage is oil pressure, water temp, volt meter, fuel guage. We have coated the exhaust OD and ID..then wrapped them with Design Engineering exhaust wrap..then sprayed the pans top and bottom with Lizard Skin. With 2 exhaust pipes 3.5" diameter each running thru the tunnel sitting right next to you, you can't be too thorough..Alan said the exhaust was as cool as a cucumber when they ran it in the shop. Yes that's Doug's B 400..Bill Roberts 32 all Steel Vicky with a 514 Ford is there too..

[Bob Johnson]

I told Alan to measure the front track width when he puts the wheels back on it..should be by Friday. We are getting some scales to weigh it. We keep adding stuff.. ie 2 fire systems, 2 nitrous tanks..stereo..(I wanted stereo to be removable but we just don't have the room)..my guess is 3,000# I hope it's not heavier. Yes it does have power windows..yes side glass rolls up and down and is lexan..It will be driven this week-end unless Murphy pays an unexpected visit..

[Bob Johnson]

we won't be going to the Dyno test Monday..We're going to Nashville for a Center Force clutch commercial..we forgot about our previous commitment.

[Bill Howell]

we won't be going to the Dyno test Monday..We're going to Nashville for a Center Force clutch commercial..we forgot about our previous commitment.


That's great Bob, driving it to Nashville and back should help get some miles on it. Should be broke in by time you get back home. You ARE driving it there right......lol
BTW, finally got my copy, great story and pictures. :cheers:

[Bob Johnson]

That's great Bob, driving it to Nashville and back should help get some miles on it. Should be broke in by time you get back home. You ARE driving it there right......lol
BTW, finally got my copy, great story and pictures. :cheers:
I might just drive it over there...wanna ride with me?? You might get discovered..lotsa TV people will be there..with you and me in the Cuda, it will be LOAD tested anyway..I was purtier than you were..but that didn't take much

[Steve Chryssos]

I might just drive it over there...wanna ride with me??

That reminds me...What does the cuda have for spring rates?

[Travis B]

Aluminum was used on 60's Factory drag cars..Chevy Z-ll's had alum fenders and bumpers as did the early 60's Pontiac Super Duty cars and Mopar Max Wedges..Ford used glass fenders..It doesn't have dual speedos..the top half of the center guage is the tach..The guage to the right is the speedo..bottom of center guage and left guage is oil pressure, water temp, volt meter, fuel guage. We have coated the exhaust OD and ID..then wrapped them with Design Engineering exhaust wrap..then sprayed the pans top and bottom with Lizard Skin. With 2 exhaust pipes 3.5" diameter each running thru the tunnel sitting right next to you, you can't be too thorough..Alan said the exhaust was as cool as a cucumber when they ran it in the shop. Yes that's Doug's B 400..Bill Roberts 32 all Steel Vicky with a 514 Ford is there too..

cool thanks bob....I guess I misread the article about the guages.

[speedster]

I might just drive it over there...wanna ride with me?? You might get discovered..lotsa TV people will be there..with you and me in the Cuda, it will be LOAD tested anyway..I was purtier than you were..but that didn't take much

Wow, with you in Bill in there, does that qualify under the tax code as a "commercial hauler" ??? :fart: Good writeoff you have there...

[Bob Johnson]

That reminds me...What does the cuda have for spring rates?
we are going to have more than one setup..alan will tell you after we get the weight and then we will proceed

[Bob Johnson]

Wow, with you in Bill in there, does that qualify under the tax code as a "commercial hauler" ??? :fart: Good writeoff you have there...
at least I won't have to put a back-up alarm on it..DOT requires Howell to carry one in his hip pocket..his as* is so wide..he's a dancin machine though..did you see him shake that booty? Lots of junk in that trunk...need to look at that family tree..I think there might be a brother back there on one of those limbs..

[Bob Johnson]

:bsjerk: :bsjerk:
Just got the mag last night.....

Very cool stuff in there, The aluminum bumpers were trick as could be...I would have never thought of that in a million years. Didn't they use to do that on some factory race cars???? Never noticed the dual speedos either, gauges are too cool! Why did you guys wrap the exhaust verses coating it with something??? Was that Dougs B400 I spotted in the background of the shop pic.......

Once again congrats to Bob and the guys at JHRS killer car!
well we told the rednecks we had to put 2 speedos on it..it was so fast one couldn't hold all the numbers..

[Travis B]

:bsjerk: :bsjerk:
well we told the rednecks we had to put 2 speedos on it..it was so fast one couldn't hold all the numbers..


I guess you missed this




cool thanks bob....I guess I misread the article about the guages.


so there it is again for you

[preston]

yeah I know the battle for weight on a dual purpose car - people always talk about stripping weight out of the car for racing but they forget how much weight you have to add for "racing". When you start talking fire systems and roll cages AND sound proofing and carpet and P/W etc. , the weight battle just becomes incredibly difficult.

It will be interesting what it ends up at.

[Bob Johnson]

I guess you missed this






so there it is again for you
don't take anything I say serious..I understood what you said..I was just joking saying we had told renecks (not you) it had to have two speedos.. it was so fast one couldn't hold all the numbers. I saw in a earlier post you saw it didn't have two..like a redneck told me when I was 15..I was looking at his 50 olds coupe with the 303 V/8 and 2 twos..he said yeah.. but they're bored out to two fours..bad thing is I didn't know any better..

[Bill Howell]

I might just drive it over there...wanna ride with me?? You might get discovered..lotsa TV people will be there..with you and me in the Cuda, it will be LOAD tested anyway..I was purtier than you were..but that didn't take much

I can see you and me going over Monteagle in the cuda, we would certainly stress test the brakes. I'm in, when and where. BTW, I did not make it, but the gto was on inside dragracing this week. It was a sema shot with Garlitts explaining the car. Nice one minute commentary. However, he said I had an LS5, which was news to me.

[Dan Sherwood]

I have to admit that I'm somewhat new to the pt game with only 2 projects in 5 years (I won't count the gmc awd pu).

I liked the whole car (and I'm kind of a chevy guy) but 2 things jazzed me the most. The custom gauges were way cool, and the talk of driving it hard.

I see where Bob mentions he wished he had'nt made mention of that. I can relate, where my 69 camaro has turned out so nice (nothing as sweet as the cuda) I am somewhat afraid to drive the thing (find a new paint chip after every drive). Where my 67 camaro is probably a 50 footer, but I can go out and beat on it and can't tell if it has any new issues because of the old ones.

I'm not even in the same leauge with most of you guys, and certainly not this cuda, but it has a way of inspiring you, even if it's just to dream what you'd like to do. Congrats!
Bob-Are you telling me that my rythym is directly related to my brutha from anotha mutha? Does that apply to my basketball game too? I knew something was'nt quite right there.

[Bob Johnson]

Gartlis knows his fuel dragsters, but when it comes to Street Rods/Street Machines. he's like a duck out of water

[Bob Johnson]

I'm over at Alans..we're fixing to go drive the Cuda..Pray for us....it sounds awesome with those 3.5" chambered exhaust..nice mellow deep tone..not that tinny raspy note you get with some mufflers..made new door panels, glass frames etc for Maxton run. Didn't have a way to secure the side glass, so alan made a one piece doorpanel/glass piece that replaces the stock door panel..just roll the glass down and put on the new panel and glass piece. Kirkey seat is fitted..bolt in supplemental cage almost finished. Going to shoot a Center Force Clutch Commercial Monday with the Cuda in Nashville..Those guys have been great to us. I have developed a wonderful friendship with Will Baty..super nice fun guy..

[1970cuda]

i would be more than happy to take it out for a spin for you

[Steve1968LS2]

For those in love with this car.. we just put the downloadable wallpaper online..

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/freestuff/

(it's at the bottom of the page)

[syborg tt]

Hi Steve,

When do you guy's plan to put the article up on line ?

[Steve1968LS2]

Hi Steve,

When do you guy's plan to put the article up on line ?

Most likely once the issue is off the newsstands.. After all if we put everything online nobody would buy the magazine.. lol

So break out few bucks and hunt down the issue.. :santa3:

[syborg tt]

So break out few bucks and hunt down the issue.. :santa3:


Actually I was hoping that there may be extended coverage on-line.

PS. I picked it up on the news stand before i got it in the mail with my subscription. I've been a subscriber since you guy's changes the content years ago. Popular Hot Rodding and Super Rod are my top favorite magazines. Although Hot Rod did a great job this month. As much as i like seeing finished cars i would rather see what it took to get it there and that is why i like Buckaroo Publications so much.

[Steve1968LS2]

Actually I was hoping that there may be extended coverage on-line.

PS. I picked it up on the news stand before i got it in the mail with my subscription. I've been a subscriber since you guy's changes the content years ago. Popular Hot Rodding and Super Rod are my top favorite magazines. Although Hot Rod did a great job this month. As much as i like seeing finished cars i would rather see what it took to get it there and that is why i like Buckaroo Publications so much.

Hmmm.. extended online coverage and pics.. I will run that idea by the chiefs (if we have extra images)..

Thanks for buying our rag! (and keeping me employed)

[syborg tt]

Hmmm.. extended online coverage and pics.. I will run that idea by the chiefs (if we have extra images)..

Thanks for buying our rag! (and keeping me employed)

We should Thank you for putting out such a great Magazine

[onebad2]

We should Thank you for putting out such a great Magazine

DIDO

[Travis B]

As much as i like seeing finished cars i would rather see what it took to get it there and that is why i like Buckaroo Publications so much.

I agree build shots are great...the greening camaro was in Super rod this month, excellent build coverage and pics along with the finished product

[Damn True]

However, he said I had an LS5, which was news to me.

I think it's an LS7 that is missing on two cylinders.

Big Daddy is a freakin legend, but I think his nitro mixture might be thinning out a bit as he ages. I suppose it'll happen to all of us at some point.

[HHStang]

Bob- I hope the car is at your place and I can see it the next time I'm in Atlanta. I met you at your shop one day with Maffucci. Great job on the Cuda. Your team had a great vision and even better execution. Congrats! Mike Strum

[Bob Johnson]

Bob- I hope the car is at your place and I can see it the next time I'm in Atlanta. I met you at your shop one day with Maffucci. Great job on the Cuda. Your team had a great vision and even better execution. Congrats! Mike Strum
have you talked to Mafucci in the last 2 weeks? Thanks for the compliments..I just got back from Alans..went to Nashville to shoot a commercial with the Cuda for Center Force Clutch..It was at RTM Productions in Nashville..This new facility isn't fully set up yet..It has 57K sq. ft...they shoot several shows like the new Muscle car Show with Jarred Zimmerman..The Trucks show..a 4X4 Show etc. Each show has it's own 5K or so sq. ft. area..They have a new paint booth..they were setting up a new powder coat booth..They had a new Chassis Dyno they were fixing to install..it's a fully equipped place..going to be killer when they finish setting it up. all new chit..

[USAZR1]

Most likely once the issue is off the newsstands.. After all if we put everything online nobody would buy the magazine.. lol
So break out few bucks and hunt down the issue.. :santa3:

I'm a subscriber and just got the issue today. Man,the only reason to subscribe is the cheaper price per issue 'cause one of the advantages sure isn't getting it sooner. :dunno:

[Steve1968LS2]

I'm a subscriber and just got the issue today. Man,the only reason to subscribe is the cheaper price per issue 'cause one of the advantages sure isn't getting it sooner. :dunno:

Sometimes yes and sometimes no.. the official date that issue was supposed to go on sale Feb 22nd. Seems that some get it before that and some after :shrug:

Hope it was worth the wait :)

[Damn True]

Still haven't found it on news stands.

[Steve1968LS2]

Still haven't found it on news stands.

You have a PM

[onebad2]

Bob, Will the cuda be at Columbus Good-guys???

[Bob Johnson]

Bob, Will the cuda be at Columbus Good-guys???
unless something catastrophic happens, we'll be there..

[Dave96dcm]

I feel like this is a stupid question but I have to ask, are you running a air filter in that intake or do you have a different intake with filters for when you are going to be driving it. I would be scared if you have no filter at all.

[Bob Johnson]

I feel like this is a stupid question but I have to ask, are you running a air filter in that intake or do you have a different intake with filters for when you are going to be driving it. I would be scared if you have no filter at all.
Alan is not finished with the air intake..so we're running 2 round Amsoil air filters on it now until we finish the other air intake..we will have 2 panel filters on the new intake system when it's completed

[Dave96dcm]

Cool. So the intake that is in the pictures will have 2 panels when it is done, it looks kinda flat but I guess I'll have to look more at the pics untill I see it in person.

[trapin]

That car is amazing. Better name for it would be RoboCuda. Damn shame it wasn't in Detroit a week ago. Only car I ever got wood looking at in a magazine. I'm afraid what might happen if I saw it in person...might soil myself.

[Mike Holleman]

Bob, Are you going to be at Maxton on April 1? Be a good place to see what she'll do. I can't wait to see the cuda in person. I know you'll be at the year one deal at Road Atlanta. I met you there last year.

Mike Holleman

[ProStreet R/T]

Is this car going to run Z2Z this year as well? Some nut swinger was running his mouth about this car over on the viper board and quite a few people want a piece of it.

[Bill Howell]

Is this car going to run Z2Z this year as well? Some nut swinger was running his mouth about this car over on the viper board and quite a few people want a piece of it.

Link?

[ProStreet R/T]

Link?



Nutswinger here (http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-i/41524-z2z-challenge.html)

[1970cuda]

darn thier shet don't stink over there does it

[Bill Howell]

Lets see, I predict when Bob sees this, there may be a war over there.lol
Pretty strong words about ole muley too.
My guess one of the "other" protouring cars that was a "showcar" and a camaro was Prodigy.

[Steve Chryssos]

Nothing to see there. Based on their posts, that message board is overrun by 12 year olds pretending to be grown ups with Vipers. And based on his "JHRSZ2ZCUDA" handle, it looks like one of them is pretending to be Bob Johnson.

Viper! Turbo! Puberty!

[ProStreet R/T]

Sweet maybe he will bring it out and race :2nd:

I do like that cuda a lot, it's a beautiful car with some awesome fab work. BUT when it comes to a race, thats like throwing rocks at an abrams tank. What Gary posted about being able to run 0-2-0 before that car hits 200 isn't a stretch at all.

[Bob Johnson]

Cool. So the intake that is in the pictures will have 2 panels when it is done, it looks kinda flat but I guess I'll have to look more at the pics untill I see it in person.
I haven't seen his idea in the flesh..but the air is not going to be coming from the front..the filters will be below and filtered air will come up to what you're looking at.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Those viper guys sure are funny, lol. Show 'em what's up, Bob.

[Bob Johnson]

Bob, Are you going to be at Maxton on April 1? Be a good place to see what she'll do. I can't wait to see the cuda in person. I know you'll be at the year one deal at Road Atlanta. I met you there last year.

Mike Holleman
It is our plan to be at Maxton..I am looking at being at Mopars at the strip the week before..It's going to be a tight schedule..I would like to drive it on the cruise from Phoenix to Vegas with all the Mopar guys..Leaves Phoenix Thursday Morning. I desperately need some seat time in it..Haven't been able to run it thru the gears..little nagging problems..I think we might have them whipped now..I hope..It sounds awesome when you wind it up on the street..

[Bob Johnson]

Is this car going to run Z2Z this year as well? Some nut swinger was running his mouth about this car over on the viper board and quite a few people want a piece of it.
the Z2Z won't run until Sept. unless things change in May. They are slated for a Z1Z for May I would like to find a venue over here that doesn't have such a high altitude. No one even came close last year..We're looking seriously at going..

[ProStreet R/T]

the Z2Z won't run until Sept. unless things change in May. They are slated for a Z1Z for May I would like to find a venue over here that doesn't have such a high altitude. No one even came close last year..We're looking seriously at going..


Yeah it was pretty sad, fastest car there was a roe SC viper that ran like 183, but he was only making 700ish rwhp.

Let us know when you're going to bring it out, I'm sure we can get a couple TT cars to come play.

What do you think it will do at maxton? Hennesseys car ran 221 and hes only making a little over 1k at the wheels. Will be interesting to see what the cars do that are making 1500+



Just so you don't all think we are a bunch of b/sers heres a link to Rippers car.

http://www.garyjavo.com/jerry.htm

Not too bad for a full street car first time down the track.

[Bob Johnson]

Lets see, I predict when Bob sees this, there may be a war over there.lol
Pretty strong words about ole muley too.
My guess one of the "other" protouring cars that was a "showcar" and a camaro was Prodigy.
I've owned a few Vipers..also had several up here for sale..never a turbo one..but had one of the 700 H.P Hennesseys.. That ol John Deere/Milk truck sounding engine will haul ass but I just can't tolerate the sound and that big ol wide ugly front end. I knew the K&N filter Viper was fast but I don't think any of these other guys were a serious threat to Big Red last year..Let's get them over here at Road Atlanta for The Year One Event and a little twisty action..Put ol Jeff and his Caddy on them too..If they want more than one playmate, we'll put both Bob Johnsons on em..Tell them to get up to Maxton..April 1..stopping is not measured up there

[Bob Johnson]

Yeah it was pretty sad, fastest car there was a roe SC viper that ran like 183, but he was only making 700ish rwhp.

Let us know when you're going to bring it out, I'm sure we can get a couple TT cars to come play.

What do you think it will do at maxton? Hennesseys car ran 221 and hes only making a little over 1k at the wheels. Will be interesting to see what the cars do that are making 1500+



Just so you don't all think we are a bunch of b/sers heres a link to Rippers car.

http://www.garyjavo.com/jerry.htm

Not too bad for a full street car first time down the track.
when we come to play, we'll be playing several ways..not just straightline acceleration..We didn't build this car for drag racing..We wanted an all around balanced vehicle..We will get you guys involved when we get up a challenge..But it will include several laps on a road course, skid pan, and several other handling venues. I'm sure my illigimate son The Real Bob Johnson will be antsy to do some acceleration runs with you too..He's into those hair dryers.. are you telling me a viper ran 221 at Maxton? No way my car will run 221 at Maxton..we will be very happy with 200mph.

[ProStreet R/T]

I know Hennessey is bringing one of his TTs out to Maxton shooting for 230ish as is SVS with their 1700hp car. Should be an interesting race, that is if anyone is with in 25mph of them.

I know quite a few of these guys regularly track their cars so getting them out shouldn't be a problem. If I was even remotely close i'd come out and play as well.

Honestly that K&N car is a joke, he's 1000hp down on some of these guys. Just of note, that car that ran the 8.7 @ 163 still has the stock independant rear suspension, quaife diff, stoptech brakes, motons, and that wasn't even on the highest boost setting. They aren't 1/4 mile wonders by a long shot.

I'll double check hennesseys numbers but recall him mentioning going 221 in a standing mile. I know he did 210 on 20" radials with no traction control in a 1000rwhp pump gas car. The guys on good fuel are doing 1500+, and with an aem staged boost controller, hitting 230 is a definite possibility.

A lot of people (turbo hayabusas for one) have underestimated what 1500hp/1800ftlbs can do on the top end.

[Bob Johnson]

It's no secret that the Vipers make a lot of power. But that sound is more than I can bare. I had a V/10 Ford Motor in my 56 big window pick-up..I tried everything..it still sounded like hell. I'm an old school guy. I want a hot rod to sound like a hot rod. There is a turbo Hayabusa that runs at Maxton..it'll take one helluva Viper to play with him. I'd like to see one of those Vipers hit 230 at Maxton. I'll believe it when I see it. I know they have the power..putting it to that old asphalt..that's another story. Get some of your buddies and come to the year one experience. I want to see those turbos run the road course with 1,000hp.

[Bob Johnson]

I didn't know Hennessey was still around. the guys over here that dealt with him in the past have nothing good to say about their dealings with him.

[ProStreet R/T]

I know the SVS guys as well as a couple Heffner cars are planning to come out so there will be a few very fast cars.

How hennessey is still in business is far beyond me, but he is. Only reason I mention him is b/c he's the only one to run a standing mile recently. Everyone else has been focusing on drag racing, trying to better chads 7.9 stock IRS run.

[Bob Johnson]

I know the SVS guys as well as a couple Heffner cars are planning to come out so there will be a few very fast cars.

How hennessey is still in business is far beyond me, but he is. Only reason I mention him is b/c he's the only one to run a standing mile recently. Everyone else has been focusing on drag racing, trying to better chads 7.9 stock IRS run.
It's a big ol world out there..full of suckers..You can see a guy that rips off nearly everyone and people keep going to him..People just don't do their homework. Then you get different organizations that will build up bad guys names because he's advertising or building cars for them, or otherwise making money off him. Bad thing is, then the bad guy rips off the members of the organization because they think he's legit.

[Bob Johnson]

The Vipers don't monopolize these performance numbers. There have been big inch small block Fords and Chevys doing those kinds of numbers. now the latest rage is blowing or turbines on big motors. There have been single blower cars spitting out those kinds of numbers with about 400 cu.in. All that power is great, but what you do with it is what counts. Turbos are the easiest on the motor. Blowers are tough on the front of the crank. Nitrous in big doses alters the fuel burn and make things difficult. I just don't like the way a turbo sounds, and the feel just isn't like a normally aspirated car. I've got a 500 hp 240Z that has a 3 liter inline 6..but it's so sudden with the power, you can't harness it. I also have a 930 Porsche with a turbo..same thing..All the new electronics make it much better but it just doesn't give me the same ol feel of a big motor normally aspirated car..I'm old, I don't need too much anymore. The vipers will have their hands full with the big inch blower or turbo Vettes, Mustangs, Camaros etc. The other Bob Johnson over here is going to be making well over a thousand HP with his..I don't know how wild he's going to boost it..He has the potential to go upwards to 2,000 if he gets a wild hair up his as*.. He'll be out with us..come on down..I want to see those Vipers on a road course with all that power. We think the Cuda has all the power you can use there..

[Bill Howell]

Damn if this doesn't bear repeating. It is true with some of the people that produce parts for our nitch too. I beg people all the time to do their homework. I promise, it will save some of the nightmares we had building the goat.
Thanks for the quote below Bob, I may use that somewhere-----SOON!

It's a big ol world out there..full of suckers..You can see a guy that rips off nearly everyone and people keep going to him..People just don't do their homework. Then you get different organizations that will build up bad guys names because he's advertising or building cars for them, or otherwise making money off him. Bad thing is, then the bad guy rips off the members of the organization because they think he's legit...Bob Johnson

[Steve Chryssos]

Damn if this doesn't bear repeating. It is true with some of the people that produce parts for our nitch too. I beg people all the time to do their homework. I promise, it will save some of the nightmares we had building the goat.
Thanks for the quote below Bob, I may use that somewhere-----SOON!


Does this mean you're changing your sig quote? Johnson might be fart smella--I mean smart fella, but he's kinda wordy.

[Bob Johnson]

you mean I'm a kind worldly fella don't you

[Steve Chryssos]

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Bob Johnson]

you mean I'm a kind worldly fella don't you
I left out smart.. it should be smart, kind, wordly fella....got a nice ring to it..

[Bob Johnson]

I know Hennessey is bringing one of his TTs out to Maxton shooting for 230ish as is SVS with their 1700hp car. Should be an interesting race, that is if anyone is with in 25mph of them.

I know quite a few of these guys regularly track their cars so getting them out shouldn't be a problem. If I was even remotely close i'd come out and play as well.

Honestly that K&N car is a joke, he's 1000hp down on some of these guys. Just of note, that car that ran the 8.7 @ 163 still has the stock independant rear suspension, quaife diff, stoptech brakes, motons, and that wasn't even on the highest boost setting. They aren't 1/4 mile wonders by a long shot.

I'll double check hennesseys numbers but recall him mentioning going 221 in a standing mile. I know he did 210 on 20" radials with no traction control in a 1000rwhp pump gas car. The guys on good fuel are doing 1500+, and with an aem staged boost controller, hitting 230 is a definite possibility.

A lot of people (turbo hayabusas for one) have underestimated what 1500hp/1800ftlbs can do on the top end.
where is all this going on? Who is recording these speeds and where is it published? Are some of these Vipers going to be at the Year One Experience?? Which ones? Are they up for some lap times at Road Atlanta..not the drag strip..the road course..We need to get with Year One and Road Atlanta to set something up. We'll see what those Vipers will do with this back yard built Cuda that's so ugly and slow. A Viper might be a lot of things, but beautiful isn't one of them..If a guy likes the looks of a Viper, no wonder he doesn't like the looks of my Cuda. If my memory serves me correctly, when I was receiving the Chrysler Design Award for The Cuda, I don't remember any Viper guys on the podium.

[ProStreet R/T]

The Vipers don't monopolize these performance numbers. There have been big inch small block Fords and Chevys doing those kinds of numbers. now the latest rage is blowing or turbines on big motors. There have been single blower cars spitting out those kinds of numbers with about 400 cu.in. All that power is great, but what you do with it is what counts. Turbos are the easiest on the motor. Blowers are tough on the front of the crank. Nitrous in big doses alters the fuel burn and make things difficult. I just don't like the way a turbo sounds, and the feel just isn't like a normally aspirated car. I've got a 500 hp 240Z that has a 3 liter inline 6..but it's so sudden with the power, you can't harness it. I also have a 930 Porsche with a turbo..same thing..All the new electronics make it much better but it just doesn't give me the same ol feel of a big motor normally aspirated car..I'm old, I don't need too much anymore. The vipers will have their hands full with the big inch blower or turbo Vettes, Mustangs, Camaros etc. The other Bob Johnson over here is going to be making well over a thousand HP with his..I don't know how wild he's going to boost it..He has the potential to go upwards to 2,000 if he gets a wild hair up his as*.. He'll be out with us..come on down..I want to see those Vipers on a road course with all that power. We think the Cuda has all the power you can use there..


Yeah cars have been making huge HP numbers for quite some time now, just seems that the viper guys are the first to reliably make 1k rwhp on pump gas and in a car that can handle it. You don't try to put it all to the ground in 1st gear, it will never hook. But the advances in EFI tech, being able to stage the boost for different gears, and tunable traction control has come a long way. It's not far fetched to say that Chads car never would have run 7.9 @ 176 w/o an AEM, but having and using the available hardware is part of the game. To date he has the fastest real street car, (IRS, a/c, big stereo, full interior, etc) that I'm aware of. Supras are getting close, but the vettes and cobras are far behind. Even on pump gas and drag radials that car went 8.5 and a few others are in the high 8's as well.

That is the beauty of it, you can limit it to 500hp in 1st, raise it to 700 in 3rd, and 1000 in 4th, or how ever much the track will hold. It's all in the tuning, I hope others are using the same equipment as it really makes it feasable to have a 1000hp street car you can drive to work with out batting an eye.

You guys should join on the viper forums and see who will come out and play. There is a whole different thread with a few guys discussing who will be running at maxton as well.

And I wouldn't expect to see a viper win any design excellence awards, it's not a one off show car. It's a crazy powerful street car that while looking bone stock will outrun 99% of the sport bikes on the road, and you can use as a daily driver.

[Bob Johnson]

Has NHRA or IHRA started allowing traction control? As you've stated, a Viper is a purpose built high performance car in it's stock form. I think you will see the corvettes shine with their new engine and lighter configuration..the twin turbo set up on the LS engine is going to be very competitive with the Vipers..The Vipers have a jump on them but I think the Vettes will close the gap quickly. But I'm wanting to know who is going to be over here with Vipers? I am challenging them at Road Atlanta with my ol dinosaur muscle car that doesn't have a chance against a factory designed car..hell I haven't even got my car sorted out yet...come on over and show me up..

[Bob Johnson]

Yeah cars have been making huge HP numbers for quite some time now, just seems that the viper guys are the first to reliably make 1k rwhp on pump gas and in a car that can handle it. You don't try to put it all to the ground in 1st gear, it will never hook. But the advances in EFI tech, being able to stage the boost for different gears, and tunable traction control has come a long way. It's not far fetched to say that Chads car never would have run 7.9 @ 176 w/o an AEM, but having and using the available hardware is part of the game. To date he has the fastest real street car, (IRS, a/c, big stereo, full interior, etc) that I'm aware of. Supras are getting close, but the vettes and cobras are far behind. Even on pump gas and drag radials that car went 8.5 and a few others are in the high 8's as well.

That is the beauty of it, you can limit it to 500hp in 1st, raise it to 700 in 3rd, and 1000 in 4th, or how ever much the track will hold. It's all in the tuning, I hope others are using the same equipment as it really makes it feasable to have a 1000hp street car you can drive to work with out batting an eye.

You guys should join on the viper forums and see who will come out and play. There is a whole different thread with a few guys discussing who will be running at maxton as well.

And I wouldn't expect to see a viper win any design excellence awards, it's not a one off show car. It's a crazy powerful street car that while looking bone stock will outrun 99% of the sport bikes on the road, and you can use as a daily driver.
as we both know, it's hard to get a bike's drag coeffecient down. Your Vipers will probably find that 1% that they weren't wanting when they run that Hayabusa that's usually at Maxton..as I've stated, I have owned several Vipers..The build quality was lacking...I think you'll have to agree that the sound that comes from that V/10 is less than pleasant.

[ProStreet R/T]

I can't speak for them or make their comittments, Post up and ask and see what they have to say.

It will be nice if the vettes can keep up, to date the closest one is a C5 with TT, a glide, and a solid rear axle/4-link. And he's still nearly 1 sec behind.

I wouldn't be surprised if your car pulls higher #'s on a skid pad, being a one off custom build against production suspension (with a shock change) I would be somewhat disappointed if it didn't. But a lot also depends on the tires everyone is running.

I agree they don't sound the best, but the turbos muffle that quite a bit. :drive:

And there really isn't anything to be too upset about if you get beat by a 500hp sport bike. Just hanging at that level in a street car is pretty darn impressive. They won't win every race, especially against specialized race cars. But having something you can drive that has the manners/reliability of a bone stock car, and with a tire change will run mid 8's @ 17x is something not many others can pull off.

[67SSDan]

Man... I hadn't checked out this thread in a while.. it's getting hot in here!! ;) I can't wait to see the results of this show down. Hey Bob... make sure you've got some people there taking pictures, I can't wait to see that bad ass Cuda in action!

P.S... And I'll step to the plate and admit it... I think Vipers are cool looking. I think that Cuda's are pretty freaking awesome too. Call me crazy! :)

[Bob Johnson]

I registered but I haven't been down to my warehouse to finalize the sign in. I just didn't like what I read. Sounded like 1/2 or more are kids trying to pop off their mouths. I have no patience with that. I clearly understand the performance potential of the tt Vipers. With several shops focusing their efforts on Viper Performance, and lots of parts availability is making them a serious threat. The guys on the site acted like big red wasn't competitive last year. The thing they leave out is he is normally aspirated and carbureted which takes some time to tune. I know by the time cut-off he hadn't been that competitive, but after he got his tune he was right in there and stopped much quicker than the viper. Let's face it, that event is not set up for a normally aspirated carb engine. All the turbo or blower guys have to do is jack the boost up to overcome the altitude. Big Red couldn't do anything. I think he did fine. He's had a hell of a run..For those kids on there to refer to him like they have is unwarranted. He deserves a lot of respect. He may make some changes this year and who knows what might happen. I just want to see those guys bring some cars over here to the Year One Event..let's see what they will do on a road course..

[MarkM66]

There are some real Dumb Fu@ks over on that Viper Board. I wouldn't waste your time over there Bob.

[Bob Johnson]

I don't think I will..seems like most of them are kids that just want to cause dissention. Reading the posts pissed me off so I don't want to proceed further.

[F70t/a]

I don't think I will..seems like most of them are kids that just want to cause dissention. Reading the posts pissed me off so I don't want to proceed further.



We should go to the Bunny Ranch bob!!!

[Bob Johnson]

We should go to the Bunny Ranch bob!!!
I went to the one in Reno..Wild something Saloon..I think they are going to change it back to the Mustang Ranch..There was a tour bus of little ol ladies touring the place..I found that kinda strange..Went into the bar..they were sitting all around..That was a scary site. I thought, damn these guys are real hard up around here..then I found out it was a tour..Everyone of them was in her 60's or older. These working girls are too much of a hustler for me..Stick with the Asians..

[F70t/a]

I went to the one in Reno..Wild something Saloon..I think they are going to change it back to the Mustang Ranch..There was a tour bus of little ol ladies touring the place..I found that kinda strange..Went into the bar..they were sitting all around..That was a scary site. I thought, damn these guys are real hard up around here..then I found out it was a tour..Everyone of them was in her 60's or older. These working girls are too much of a hustler for me..Stick with the Asians..

So you like nice girls that are nice and tight :hail: I can't blame ya

[ProStreet R/T]

There are some real Dumb Fu@ks over on that Board.

In the immortal words of Sammuel L. Jackson... Funny, we we're thinking the same thing. To go and call some of those guys out to a 0-2-0 race is suicide. As Bob himself posted they will be happy to hit 200 in a mile, well one of the slowest TT vipers around hit 210 on 20" pirelli radials and pump gas.

But it would be a good race to run around Road atlanta as well as the z2z and see how the cars stack up.

As for Big Red his time has passed. They either need to add a ton of HP to that car or retire it. It's a purpose built race car, tube chassi, 4 link solid rear, etc. And getting smoked by production cars with a little boost. Yeah it's N/A with a carb, but they choose to build it that way, slap a pair of turbos on it and see what she will run.

Oh and all but one or two of those guys own very very fast cars. Just a rundown.

HIBOOST- UGR TT, 1400ish rwhp street car
Gary J- 2 Heffner TT cars, one being built, one "slow" 1200rwhp vert.
Chad: World's Quickest and Fastest V-10 Viper and IRS Street Car.
7.99 at 177 mph with auto
8.48 at 166 mph with pump gas and DR's

ROGUE GTS- Something he's building himself, not sure.
Hennessey- His car is pretty quick, 1000rwhp TT
Heffner- Tuner/Builder

Yeah just a bunch of kids... riiight

[Bob Johnson]

I asked you where the rumored 210 on pump gas took place..it wasn't at Maxton was it? As far as big Red being washed up..before the Z2Z day was over, he had run as fast as the viper..at 9,000 ft. or so (corrected) with a normally aspirated motor..and he stopped much quicker..The Viper's stopping distance wasn't impressive at all..it's hard to get a carb car set up..an injected car with a turbo is much easier to get tuned for that altitude..Big Red is an Icon..he deserves much more respect than the Viper Boys give him. I wouldn't get too mouthy..He just might throw a pair of hair dryers on it and come snake huntin..I guess we're supposed to believe what Hennessey says? I've never had dealings with him, but you know the word on him as well as I do. I may not be from Missouri, but show me..Let's see one of those Vipers beat his average at the Silver State for 90+ miles. I don't know what the Viper guys have to harp about..There's plenty of turbo cars out here as fast as they are..The electronics they are running don't make them legal in NHRA or IHRA. I know one thing for sure..When I drive up to a cruise site, people don't turn around to see if a milk delivery is being made. Get one of these Vipers committed to the Year One Event to run at Road Atlanta against the Cuda..all that turbo/intercooler weight over the front axle makes for a nice handling package.

[ProStreet R/T]

Here's all I could find on the 210 run. http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2572&page_number=15

I agree Big Red is an awesome car, but he's behind the times and it's starting to show. The car he ran equal too was a 700rwhp supercharged car with stock brakes. It's well known the stock viper brakes suck, stoptech fixes that. That was stock motor, bolt a SC on, and run. I would surely hope a race car on slicks could out accelerate that, but he couldn't, and that car is SLOOOOW in comparison to whos being called out here.

Thats the thing, there aren't that many comfortable, daily driver cars that can hang. Find another 7-8 second, IRS, car that you would want to drive from SoCal to Vegas. I'd have no trouble hoping in one of these, crank up the A/C, stereo goin, etc. Not some gutted, tube chassi race car. There are a couple Supras that are close with turbos and nitrous, but thats it. It isn't about the fastest turbo car, they are the fastest true street cars around. If it was about having the fastest car ever don't you think someone would have pulled the IRS in favor of a 4 link and solid axle by now. Last I checked none of these were NHRA/IHRA events, so their rules don't much apply.

I don't see how the weight of the turbos will have a huge effect on things. Seeing as most are mounted at frame height and about 14" behind the front axle centerline. I would worry more about gettin some sticky tires on wheels that fit over those 16" brake rotors. If you really think your car can out run one call them out. Funny you keep mentioning the sound, stock they do sound like crap. But none of these are stock cars, nor do they sound anything like it. But I guess when your car runs 25mph slower in the mile you can say it sounds better.

[Bob Johnson]

the Red Devil rotors are 15"..not 16" I don't know where the 16" got started. I don't like turbos..I don't like the way they sound. I don't like they way they feel/drive. I like to watch Pro Stock cars..I like the sound. I'm not into tons of electronics. I'm old school. My car would have had a carb, intake, and distributor if I would have had the vertical space for it. If I was to go turbo, I would go with a new Z06 vette, or if I didn't want to spend the big bucks, I would go with a twin turbo Chevy in a RX-7 or some light car..hinsonsupercars.com....It's no secret that turbos make more power than any other set-up. It's no secret that they're easier on the motor. No matter what's been done to a Viper, the sound is still not appealing to me. I'm calling one or more of them out.. come to Road Atlanta for the Year One Experience. They all talked smack about the Z2Z last year..didn't show..then whined about the one that did show. Big Red has accomplished more and done more for this sport than all the Vipers and probably me combined. Maybe he doesn't want a turbo..If the Vipers do outrun him, which they absolutely should, I think most people will understand why. He is at a distinct disadvantage running a normally aspirated motor against power added motors. Until some of these guys go out and outrun him, they need to refrain from all the smack talk..I want to see them do the 90+mile Silver State run..that will prove their mettle..His record has been broken by a much more aerodynamic ex nascar race car..I still consider his car more impressive..taking into consideration the c/d of his car..He's still the king in my book..
I would also like to see one of them at Maxton..especially running 221..I'll eat my words..be the first to congratulate him..

[trapin]

We're still talking about Bob's Cuda....right?

I was going to merge this thread with the "Cuda At Sema" thread but I got a reactor temperture warning from the server.

A word about Vipers...if you'll allow me. I'll pass and save myself the $22,000 on a ZO6. Better car for the money. And it's kicked just a little more a$$ on the circuits over the years.

OK...thanks for having me. You can get back to whatever it was you were talking about.

[Bob Johnson]

We're still talking about Bob's Cuda....right?

I was going to merge this thread with the "Cuda At Sema" thread but I got a reactor temperture warning from the server.

A word about Vipers...if you'll allow me. I'll pass and save myself the $22,000 on a ZO6. Better car for the money. And it's kicked just a little more a$$ on the circuits over the years.

OK...thanks for having me. You can get back to whatever it was you were talking about.
the new Z06 is a better handling car..and more importantly it's lighter
there will be tons of performance enhancing mods available for this new version..The engine is cutting edge. It doesn't sound like a milk truck either..I know the vipers are fast..they handle decent..The new ones are pretty decent looking..It just isn't my cup of tea. I sincerely want to see one of them (the ones that are talking smack)over here at The year One Experience for some road course action...

[Damn True]

Milk Truck...lol.

I always thought they sounded a bit like a New England fishing trawler.

[ProStreet R/T]

I agree, for the $$ I'd buy a new Z as well, the new viper is not to my liking at all. I'll stick with my 01 :smoke: But the LS7 isn't all it's cracked up to be, more than a few have blown up, put rods through the block, etc. It's a hell of a starting point but to do anything major (any forced induction) it needs to be properly built.

Like i've said numerous times, you need to post up over there and get some people to come out. More than a few hit track days/auto-x regularly so it shouldn't be a huge deal.

Isn't the Texas Mile in 10 days or so? Will you be there? I know there are a few TT vipers and Supras going out.

And re the 16" rotor thing, I believe it was published in an article as that. Even at 15" can you put an 18" wheel over them?

[Damn True]

It's a hell of a starting point but to do anything major (any forced induction) it needs to be properly built.



Wouldn't that be a true statement regarding......damn near anything?

[ProStreet R/T]

Wouldn't that be a true statement regarding......damn near anything?

Somewhat, 97-99' vipers can make 800rwhp on the stock long block with out batting an eye. The 00-02 are limited to low 700's. Not bad for an off the lot motor. I would expect the same from such an awesome motor like the LS7. Ti rods yet the thing comes apart at a little over 600rwhp, something doesn't add up there.

[trapin]

Not trying to sound condescending but do you have any evidence to support those claims? This is the first I'm hearing of LS7's blowing up.

[Bob Johnson]

I agree, for the $$ I'd buy a new Z as well, the new viper is not to my liking at all. I'll stick with my 01 :smoke: But the LS7 isn't all it's cracked up to be, more than a few have blown up, put rods through the block, etc. It's a hell of a starting point but to do anything major (any forced induction) it needs to be properly built.

Like i've said numerous times, you need to post up over there and get some people to come out. More than a few hit track days/auto-x regularly so it shouldn't be a huge deal.

Isn't the Texas Mile in 10 days or so? Will you be there? I know there are a few TT vipers and Supras going out.

And re the 16" rotor thing, I believe it was published in an article as that. Even at 15" can you put an 18" wheel over them?
I've committed to be at Maxton on April 1..I wanted to go to Mopars at the Strip..but I didn't want to go without Alan..to carry him, get the car there, get it back in 3 days and ready for Maxton was a little too tight and expensive. We've got the interior mostly out of it while working on fire system, cage, lexan windows, window nets etc..We would have to put it all back in and take it right back out when it came back from Vegas. I told them I couldn't foot all the bill without some money from the promotor..I don't guess he had any surplus funds to spend on it. Anyway I don't think we would have time to go to Texas and get back for this..I'll have to check the date.. I've sent BBS all the brake info..he's been tied up but promised he'd look over it and see if his 18" 3 piece wheel would clear the brakes..he seemed to think it would..If not, I'll try 19's if we can find tires..

[Bob Johnson]

Somewhat, 97-99' vipers can make 800rwhp on the stock long block with out batting an eye. The 00-02 are limited to low 700's. Not bad for an off the lot motor. I would expect the same from such an awesome motor like the LS7. Ti rods yet the thing comes apart at a little over 600rwhp, something doesn't add up there.
what did they change on the later ones..kind of strange they wouldn't handle more power on the later ones..to play the big boy game, any motor is going to need crank, rods, and pistons for sure. Nothing stock is going to stand way in excess of 1,000 hp. A guy called me from San Diego..he wants to sell his 2002 Viper Coupe..3500 miles..Anthracite with red..supposedly only one in that color combo, he said........what's it worth? He looked at Robb Report and Dupont..I told him those were dreamers..Where do you peg it?

[Bob Johnson]

I agree, for the $$ I'd buy a new Z as well, the new viper is not to my liking at all. I'll stick with my 01 :smoke: But the LS7 isn't all it's cracked up to be, more than a few have blown up, put rods through the block, etc. It's a hell of a starting point but to do anything major (any forced induction) it needs to be properly built.

Like i've said numerous times, you need to post up over there and get some people to come out. More than a few hit track days/auto-x regularly so it shouldn't be a huge deal.

Isn't the Texas Mile in 10 days or so? Will you be there? I know there are a few TT vipers and Supras going out.

And re the 16" rotor thing, I believe it was published in an article as that. Even at 15" can you put an 18" wheel over them?
I went to the site..it's the week before Maxton..I looked for a Viper on all the records or winners..not a Viper that I saw..right in Hennessey's back yard..did any one of those guys run there last year..I think they run in Oct. also...I guess their timing equipment wasn't satisfactory for them..Most of what I saw was motorcycles..

[Bob Johnson]

I looked a little deeper, the only car, besides 1 dragster to break 200 mph was Keith Turk's 1980 Camaro...Keith, his wife Tanya, and David Freiburger all 3 ran it..Ol Fry Daddy ran the fastest at 213..I also saw him run well over 200 at Maxton in the Jessel ex Nascar car..He's bad..now he's got that twin turbo Nelson motor..he's going to be tough..no Vipers over 200..or anywhere I saw..I just don't understand all that smack talk and then they don't show up at Texas or Silver State..maybe we'll see them at Maxton..or at least Texas..

[ProStreet R/T]

what did they change on the later ones..kind of strange they wouldn't handle more power on the later ones..to play the big boy game, any motor is going to need crank, rods, and pistons for sure. Nothing stock is going to stand way in excess of 1,000 hp. A guy called me from San Diego..he wants to sell his 2002 Viper Coupe..3500 miles..Anthracite with red..supposedly only one in that color combo, he said........what's it worth? He looked at Robb Report and Dupont..I told him those were dreamers..Where do you peg it?

Anthracite? Maybe he means Steel Grey with cognac interior?, it's a metallic charcoal grey color. I'd have to see it to be sure it was a one of one, but if it is, it was a custom job. Just being a 3500 mile 02' I'd imagine he could get $60k pretty easily. Hold out and play hard ass and maybe get $65k. The Gen II cars (97-02) are pulling more $$$ than the newer 03+ on the used market. I checked on dupont and the asking price there is right in line with what they are regularly selling for on the VCA site, and what I have seen people willing to pay.

The 97-99 cars had forged pistons and a more agressive cam stock, so they hold up to the power quite a bit better. As far as I know nobody has broken a crank yet even when pushing them over 1300rwhp. There are more than a few stock long block cars in the 9's making serious power. It takes forever to get a billet viper crank so quite a few guys are sticking with the stock stuff, and it's holding up great. From 00-02 they went to cast pistons, mild cam, and added ABS in an attempt to tame the car a little. The cars sound funky due to the paired cylinder firing, but those motors are excessively overbuilt.

[Bob Johnson]

If you know of anyone wanting this combo let me know..I think he was wanting 65k..sounded strong to me. He might very well take less..he also has a 65 Black/Black Chevelle SS with a 4 speed factory tach.buckets/console

[Bob Johnson]

Anthracite? Maybe he means Steel Grey with cognac interior?, it's a metallic charcoal grey color. I'd have to see it to be sure it was a one of one, but if it is, it was a custom job. Just being a 3500 mile 02' I'd imagine he could get $60k pretty easily. Hold out and play hard ass and maybe get $65k. The Gen II cars (97-02) are pulling more $$$ than the newer 03+ on the used market. I checked on dupont and the asking price there is right in line with what they are regularly selling for on the VCA site, and what I have seen people willing to pay.

The 97-99 cars had forged pistons and a more agressive cam stock, so they hold up to the power quite a bit better. As far as I know nobody has broken a crank yet even when pushing them over 1300rwhp. There are more than a few stock long block cars in the 9's making serious power. It takes forever to get a billet viper crank so quite a few guys are sticking with the stock stuff, and it's holding up great. From 00-02 they went to cast pistons, mild cam, and added ABS in an attempt to tame the car a little. The cars sound funky due to the paired cylinder firing, but those motors are excessively overbuilt.
Yeah, the power pulses are too far apart..makes it sound like a 6 cylinder. Pretty good getting a crank that long staying together under that kind of H.P. We still haven't addressed the fact as to where Hennessey has run 210..I'm absolutely amazed that they haven't run at Maxton, Texas, Silver State, after all that mouth. I did at least see one of them on the fastest street car that Hot Rod did. All his bragging had him as the one to beat. I see the 34 Ford Whacked him. I forget what place he came in..was it 3rd or 4th? All that electronic gadgetry looks good on paper but in the real world, if you aren't a geek, it's hell..I can't stand it. Just as I got a VCR mastered, here they come with something new..at least TIVO is simpler..I try to watch the NOPI and Import drags..They will make a good run about 1 out of 2 times. Even the best guys are 3 out of 4 maybe. Very inconsistent and very little parity. After watching NHRA Pro Stock where the whole field is separated by a few hundredths, import racing just isn't very interesting.

[Damn True]

If I'm not mistaken a Hennessey Viper handilly won a standing mile event that was put on by C&D or R&T I don't recall which.

[Damn True]

...and there you have it: 1mi in 25.6sec @ 210.2mph
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2572&page_number=15

full article: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2572&page_number=1

[ProStreet R/T]

The hotrod event Chad ended up taking 2nd overall. But set fastest time of the day by almost 1/2 sec and 10mph iirc, as well as voted most streetable vehicle, fastest car on drag radials, etc. The only reason he didn't win was driver error, and oddly enough he wasn't driving. He was on vacation and let a friend drive the car for the event. If you read the forums on hotrod.com it wasn't him braging at all. It was people causing such a ruckus cause they pretty much knew the race was for 2nd place. To the point of people calling foul on tech stuff weeks before the event even started.

These cars have only really been pushed with in the last year, and mainly focus on their own racing events. But don't worry with all the cars coming together you will see some start to show up. SVS (in PGD this year) UGR, and a few others have deep 8 sec cars that are planning to run TX and possibly maxton.

If you look at that run Hennessey made. Remember that is a 6 spd, stock IRS, no traction control, on 20" pirelli's. Considering the other cars going to TX have a ton more hp and will be on far better tires I don't see how they will have a problem blowing that 210 run out of the water.

[Damn True]

This might be an interesting excercise for you Bob. You'll need to find or guesstimate the Cd and frontal area of a Cuda but after that the math is simple. I did a quick google and came up empty on the Cd.

300 mph: The Aerodynamics of Drag and Power

Aviation people distinguish air resistance as parasitic and induced drag, but the critical thing to understand is that drag increases as the square of speed. That is, while power increases in a linear fashion, drag increases exponentially with speed, in a parabolic function. For example (neglecting the effect of rolling resistance), if 100 horsepower would push a certain vehicle 100 miles per hour through the air, doubling the speed to 200 would require two-squared or 400 horsepower to overcome air resistance, while 300 miles per hour would require 900 horsepower.
Components of the following formulae which can be used to compute power required to achieve a certain speed in a vehicle:

Power = 8.702 x 10**(-6) x Cd x A x V**3

where Cd = coefficient of drag (look it up for your vehicle)
A = square feet of frontal area of the vehicle
V = Velocity, in miles per hour

The 8.702 x 10**(-6) section of the equation is a slightly-fudged correction factor made up by me to account for air density, gravity, rolling resistance, etc. Bell uses 6.7 x 10**(-6) x Cd x A x mph**3 and adjusts for actual rolling resistance, where

Rolling Power = 4.0 x 10**(-5) x weight x mph

Cd is adjusted to include rolling resistance (a relatively flat function), and air density is assumed to be standard Temp. and pressure at sea level. Intuitively, power required to achieve a certain speed is dependent on how good a shape the vehicle has (coefficient of drag), how big the shape is (frontal area), and how dense the air is.
Working through an example, Bill Gordon’s Norwood Autocraft 8.2L 288-GTO 308 conversion, assuming a Cd of .33, a frontal area of 20.5 square feet, and assuming a target speed is 200 mph. Therefore,

Required Power = (8.702 x 10**(-6) x.33 x 20.5 x 200**3
Required Power = 0.000008702 x .33 x 20.5 x 8,000,000
Required Power = 472

Observed results when Norwood was running the car with a super-high-output naturally-aspirated 302-inch Chevrolet small-block engine were that the estimated 550-600 plus crankshaft horsepower took the car to 199 mph. Norwood says experience indicates it takes almost 600 crankshaft horsepower to break 200mph, a rule of thumb born-out yet again when a Norwood Toyota MR2-turbo set a record in the 1.5-liter blown modified sports class after it attained 207 mph on 465 chassis dyno rear-wheel horsepower, an estimated 585 at the crank.

Another formula computes power required to increase to a new higher speed:

New Required Power = Old Power (New Speed/Old Speed)**3, where Old Power is total available rear-wheel power.

For the 288-GTO to attain 300 miles per hour,

New Power = 472 x (300/200)**3
New Power = 1593

In another example, lets consider the same car with the frontal area reduced by decreasing the height by one inch (which can often effectively be achieved by lowering the car). In round numbers, assume frontal area is decreased by .5 square feet. This reduces power required to break 200 in the GTO to 460 at the wheels, meaning crankshaft horsepower required to break 300 is reduced by about 55.

Lowering the entire car has a direct effect on the frontal area multiplier, and is why you see speed record cars virtually scraping the ground. Lowering the GTO even one inch reduces frontal area roughly .5 square feet, reducing the frontal area multiplier to 20 square feet, which reduces required horsepower to hit 200 to 460, or 12 rwhp less. The point is, the effect of reducing drag pays far greater dividends on top speed than adding horsepower. It is standard practice to remove the side-view mirrors from “unmodified” cars before top speed runs.

The above equations assume that a vehicle’s the torque and power curves are optimized for the application—that is, that the powerplant is mated to a gearbox that enables the vehicle to be at or very near its peak power at the target potential top speed. Naturally, the vehicle's cooling system must keep up with thermal loading at wide open throttle long enough to reach the target speed, the tires must maintain their integrity, and so on.
Of course, most enthusiasts are more interested in road-racing-type performance than top speed, in which case the large down-forces needed to hold the car to the road on high-speed turns becomes essential and a necessary tradeoff against the added drag of the down-force wings. Good rear wings and frontal splitters and canards can add thousands of pounds of down-force at speeds over 100 mph, but they also add hugely to drag. You've heard it before, but there's no free lunch in aerodynamics either.

[Bob Johnson]

This might be an interesting excercise for you Bob. You'll need to find or guesstimate the Cd and frontal area of a Cuda but after that the math is simple. I did a quick google and came up empty on the Cd.

300 mph: The Aerodynamics of Drag and Power

Aviation people distinguish air resistance as parasitic and induced drag, but the critical thing to understand is that drag increases as the square of speed. That is, while power increases in a linear fashion, drag increases exponentially with speed, in a parabolic function. For example (neglecting the effect of rolling resistance), if 100 horsepower would push a certain vehicle 100 miles per hour through the air, doubling the speed to 200 would require two-squared or 400 horsepower to overcome air resistance, while 300 miles per hour would require 900 horsepower.
Components of the following formulae which can be used to compute power required to achieve a certain speed in a vehicle:

Power = 8.702 x 10**(-6) x Cd x A x V**3

where Cd = coefficient of drag (look it up for your vehicle)
A = square feet of frontal area of the vehicle
V = Velocity, in miles per hour

The 8.702 x 10**(-6) section of the equation is a slightly-fudged correction factor made up by me to account for air density, gravity, rolling resistance, etc. Bell uses 6.7 x 10**(-6) x Cd x A x mph**3 and adjusts for actual rolling resistance, where

Rolling Power = 4.0 x 10**(-5) x weight x mph

Cd is adjusted to include rolling resistance (a relatively flat function), and air density is assumed to be standard Temp. and pressure at sea level. Intuitively, power required to achieve a certain speed is dependent on how good a shape the vehicle has (coefficient of drag), how big the shape is (frontal area), and how dense the air is.
Working through an example, Bill Gordon’s Norwood Autocraft 8.2L 288-GTO 308 conversion, assuming a Cd of .33, a frontal area of 20.5 square feet, and assuming a target speed is 200 mph. Therefore,

Required Power = (8.702 x 10**(-6) x.33 x 20.5 x 200**3
Required Power = 0.000008702 x .33 x 20.5 x 8,000,000
Required Power = 472

Observed results when Norwood was running the car with a super-high-output naturally-aspirated 302-inch Chevrolet small-block engine were that the estimated 550-600 plus crankshaft horsepower took the car to 199 mph. Norwood says experience indicates it takes almost 600 crankshaft horsepower to break 200mph, a rule of thumb born-out yet again when a Norwood Toyota MR2-turbo set a record in the 1.5-liter blown modified sports class after it attained 207 mph on 465 chassis dyno rear-wheel horsepower, an estimated 585 at the crank.

Another formula computes power required to increase to a new higher speed:

New Required Power = Old Power (New Speed/Old Speed)**3, where Old Power is total available rear-wheel power.

For the 288-GTO to attain 300 miles per hour,

New Power = 472 x (300/200)**3
New Power = 1593

In another example, lets consider the same car with the frontal area reduced by decreasing the height by one inch (which can often effectively be achieved by lowering the car). In round numbers, assume frontal area is decreased by .5 square feet. This reduces power required to break 200 in the GTO to 460 at the wheels, meaning crankshaft horsepower required to break 300 is reduced by about 55.

Lowering the entire car has a direct effect on the frontal area multiplier, and is why you see speed record cars virtually scraping the ground. Lowering the GTO even one inch reduces frontal area roughly .5 square feet, reducing the frontal area multiplier to 20 square feet, which reduces required horsepower to hit 200 to 460, or 12 rwhp less. The point is, the effect of reducing drag pays far greater dividends on top speed than adding horsepower. It is standard practice to remove the side-view mirrors from “unmodified” cars before top speed runs.

The above equations assume that a vehicle’s the torque and power curves are optimized for the application—that is, that the powerplant is mated to a gearbox that enables the vehicle to be at or very near its peak power at the target potential top speed. Naturally, the vehicle's cooling system must keep up with thermal loading at wide open throttle long enough to reach the target speed, the tires must maintain their integrity, and so on.
Of course, most enthusiasts are more interested in road-racing-type performance than top speed, in which case the large down-forces needed to hold the car to the road on high-speed turns becomes essential and a necessary tradeoff against the added drag of the down-force wings. Good rear wings and frontal splitters and canards can add thousands of pounds of down-force at speeds over 100 mph, but they also add hugely to drag. You've heard it before, but there's no free lunch in aerodynamics either.
damn son haven't you heard..pie are round..cornbread are square..

[Bob Johnson]

Poteet and Trepanier's ultimate goal for their little 4 cylinder Turbo Cuda is 300mph. They have been to Chryslers wind tunnel testing..they think the little 4 cyl. will make 1400 or 1500 hp. It's a fine piece of technology that Cuda..

[Bob Johnson]

...and there you have it: 1mi in 25.6sec @ 210.2mph
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2572&page_number=15

full article: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=2572&page_number=1
wonder what the elevation is where they were running? I see he had a stroker in it..not a stock crank..kinda strange he would use a convert. not a coupe..pretty impressive no matter how you look at it. someone on that Viper Site was talking possible 300 MPH.. that's light years away from 200 as your posting confirms.

[ProStreet R/T]

wonder what the elevation is where they were running? I see he had a stroker in it..not a stock crank..kinda strange he would use a convert. not a coupe..pretty impressive no matter how you look at it. someone on that Viper Site was talking possible 300 MPH.. that's light years away from 200 as your posting confirms.

That car is an 03 iirc, there was no coupe available till just recently in that body style.

The 522 is just an offset ground stock crank, on that car the stock motor is 505ci.

SVS, the guys in hotrod PGD this year are the ones going for 300.
http://www.svspower.com/case_study_detail.aspx?id=9

That car is far from stock and IMO they have the power to run the number if it will stay on the ground.

[MarkM66]

ProStreet R/T,

Do you race your Viper? Specs?

[ProStreet R/T]

ProStreet R/T,

Do you race your Viper? Specs?

It's seen a couple track days (willow mostly) and the occasional trip down the drag strip. Being in CA I can't legally do a whole lot to it and still keep it sniffer friendly. It's had normal mods, exhaust, smooth tubes, and a host of little track tricks.

If I don't find a clean 69' to play with soon I may buy another one and build it into something crazy, reg it out of state, etc.

[Damn True]

wonder what the elevation is where they were running? I see he had a stroker in it..not a stock crank..kinda strange he would use a convert. not a coupe..pretty impressive no matter how you look at it. someone on that Viper Site was talking possible 300 MPH.. that's light years away from 200 as your posting confirms.

Lemoore NAS: 233' AMSL

[syborg tt]

SVS does some very nice work. They are working on a couple cars with the Chassis shop that is building my truck. I will try to get some pics of the cars in the next couple weeks. The yellow viper left last week and i think he had more money in chrome then i have in my entire project.

[trapin]

Again......

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that LS7's having been failing due to power adders?

[ProStreet R/T]

Again......

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that LS7's having been failing due to power adders?



http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1317554&forum_id=100


6psi and a little over 600rwhp it punched a hole in the block :nopity:

Look around LS1 tech and CF, numerous LS7's have failed for various reasons. Course i'm not all that surprised it blew up having 11:1 comp and cast pistons. It's a killer stock motor with great potential, but it's a pain to do anything above minor bolt on stuff.

[Damn True]

Poteet and Trepanier's ultimate goal for their little 4 cylinder Turbo Cuda is 300mph. They have been to Chryslers wind tunnel testing..they think the little 4 cyl. will make 1400 or 1500 hp. It's a fine piece of technology that Cuda..

They ought to be able to provide you with the Cd and A values for a Cuda.

If you can give me those I can tell you roughly how much hp you'll need to hit a deuce.

Are they looking at 300 on pavement or salt?

[Bill Howell]

They ought to be able to provide you with the Cd and A values for a Cuda.

If you can give me those I can tell you roughly how much hp you'll need to hit a deuce.

Are they looking at 300 on pavement or salt?

How much difference would all the mods make on that True? I am thinking that the new fenders, different lengths would have a big effect? Also, the bottom of Bob's car should be a bit more aero too.
I am guessing you are talking baseline numbers? Then again, I know nothing about aero, so I am guessing here.

[Damn True]

How much difference would all the mods make on that True? I am thinking that the new fenders, different lengths would have a big effect? Also, the bottom of Bob's car should be a bit more aero too.
I am guessing you are talking baseline numbers? Then again, I know nothing about aero, so I am guessing here.

It'll make a difference. More benefit is available in what they did with the rake and ride height than smoothing the underbody. The underbody mods will help to be sure, but the biggest factor is actually the "A" to a much greated degree than Cd. Dropping the car over the tires shrouds that additional surface. Huge benefit there. Cd is cumulative though. Doing one or two things like mirrors or door handles won't have a really measureable effect but making 20-30 things just a tiny bit better nets big gains.

The equation has a big fudge factor for air density as well. The result won't be exact, but it will get you in the ball park.
A lot easier to figure it out for pavement than salt (bonneville) or dirt (muroc).


Examples:

A '94 Caprice has a Cd of .34,
an 06 ZO6 has a Cd of .34.
Exactly the same, yet the Vette requires much less power to push it to the same speed.

Dodge Durango - .39
Mazda Miata - .38
Which one requires more power to achieve 150mph?

The difference is in frontal area.

[Bill Howell]

It'll make a difference. More benefit is available in what they did with the rake and ride height than smoothing the underbody. The underbody mods will help to be sure, but the biggest factor is actually the "A" to a much greated degree than Cd. Dropping the car over the tires shrouds that additional surface. Huge benefit there. Cd is cumulative though. Doing one or two things like mirrors or door handles won't have a really measureable effect but making 20-30 things just a tiny bit better nets big gains.

The equation has a big fudge factor for air density as well. The result won't be exact, but it will get you in the ball park.
A lot easier to figure it out for pavement than salt (bonneville) or dirt (muroc).



Examples:

A '94 Caprice has a Cd of .34,
an 06 ZO6 has a Cd of .34.
Exactly the same, yet the Vette requires much less power to push it to the same speed.

Dodge Durango - .39
Mazda Miata - .38
Which one requires more power to achieve 150mph?

The difference is in frontal area.

STOP STOP, you are making my head hurt...lol
It would be interesting stuff to see both Cudas in a wind tunnel test.
300 mph just seems insane to me for a muscle car, I hope they achieve it.

[zbugger]

Examples:

A '94 Caprice has a Cd of .34,
an 06 ZO6 has a Cd of .34.
Exactly the same, yet the Vette requires much less power to push it to the same speed.

Dodge Durango - .39
Mazda Miata - .38
Which one requires more power to achieve 150mph?

The difference is in frontal area.
You forgot about weight. Also, there is a benefit to a smooth underbody, but to have an effect you need the channels to direct the air. Just a smooth underbody alone won't have the right effect.

[Steve Chryssos]

Also, stance will affect frontal area. If your car has more rake than the Starsky & Hutch Torino, frontal area will be greater than for a "flat" car where the air does not "see" the hood or roof.

[Damn True]

You forgot about weight. Also, there is a benefit to a smooth underbody, but to have an effect you need the channels to direct the air. Just a smooth underbody alone won't have the right effect.

The effect of weight is much greater getting from 0-100 than it is from 100-200. At that point the aerodynamic factors have a more profound impact.

For an example check out the portion of that C&D article on the IRL car. Much lighter than the S7 by almost 1500 lbs with similar hp (50hp diff), yet the aerodynamic drag caused by exposed tires and big wings held it to 2mph slower. It did get there much faster. In fact it finished 1.4 sec faster than the viper (with 200hp more) but was going 7mph slower.

[Damn True]

Also, stance will affect frontal area. If your car has more rake than the Starsky & Hutch Torino, frontal area will be greater than for a "flat" car where the air does not "see" the hood or roof.

Exactly, the largest factor is the amount of surface area exposed to the relative wind. One of the reasons why the 3rd gen Camaro is actually more aerodynamic than the 4th. The long sloping hood of the 4th gen car presents a ton of area to the wind compared to the much flatter 3rd gen hood.

[Bob Johnson]

They ought to be able to provide you with the Cd and A values for a Cuda.

If you can give me those I can tell you roughly how much hp you'll need to hit a deuce.

Are they looking at 300 on pavement or salt?
their Cuda is a 68 or 69..mine is 71..mine has also been sectioned..when we run, we'll be blocking off the grill with lexan also..

[Bob Johnson]

they are going to be running at Bonneville in August. They've got some sophisticated people behind that project. Chrysler is very involved as is several other knowledgeable sponsors..

[Bob Johnson]

It'll make a difference. More benefit is available in what they did with the rake and ride height than smoothing the underbody. The underbody mods will help to be sure, but the biggest factor is actually the "A" to a much greated degree than Cd. Dropping the car over the tires shrouds that additional surface. Huge benefit there. Cd is cumulative though. Doing one or two things like mirrors or door handles won't have a really measureable effect but making 20-30 things just a tiny bit better nets big gains.

The equation has a big fudge factor for air density as well. The result won't be exact, but it will get you in the ball park.
A lot easier to figure it out for pavement than salt (bonneville) or dirt (muroc).


Examples:

A '94 Caprice has a Cd of .34,
an 06 ZO6 has a Cd of .34.
Exactly the same, yet the Vette requires much less power to push it to the same speed.

Dodge Durango - .39
Mazda Miata - .38
Which one requires more power to achieve 150mph?

The difference is in frontal area.
Those Vipers look huge in the front

[Bob Johnson]

How much difference would all the mods make on that True? I am thinking that the new fenders, different lengths would have a big effect? Also, the bottom of Bob's car should be a bit more aero too.
I am guessing you are talking baseline numbers? Then again, I know nothing about aero, so I am guessing here.
Alan will be closing off the main grill area..and the lower area under the bumper..we'll leave the front spoiler off..he made the enclosure for use without the spoiler..I think he's going to also make a rubber scraper that almost touches the ground

[Bob Johnson]

go to google search Rad rides by troy..go to projects..go to the 69
Bonneville Cuda..that ain't no ordinary muscle car..this is a full boogie race car.. if this car doesn't make you sport wood, you have a severe problem..these boys ain't playin..Poteet has the Bonneville Itch big time. This Cuda and Trepanier's magic is the cure. Alan Johnson and Troy Trepanier are magicians..They are separating themselves from the pack..they stand just as big a chance of hitting 300 as the Viper does..not knowing the Viper guys, my guess is the Bonneville Cuda will get there first..radrides.com

[F70t/a]

Bob,


Will your cuda ever make it out to cali? Maybe the bay area?:ssst:

[Bob Johnson]

Bob,


Will your cuda ever make it out to cali? Maybe the bay area?:ssst:
no concrete plans out there yet..but I might make Pleasanton or something out there. see what unfolds

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Exactly, the largest factor is the amount of surface area exposed to the relative wind. One of the reasons why the 3rd gen Camaro is actually more aerodynamic than the 4th. The long sloping hood of the 4th gen car presents a ton of area to the wind compared to the much flatter 3rd gen hood.


Really? Hmm, I never knew that. Good info. Any idea what the CD is on a LS1 (98-02) 4th gen? I thought it was down around .32, but that doesn't seem right now?

[Damn True]

a '95 Camaro comes in at .338, just slightly better than the current ZO6. Interestingly, a 2005 Vette comes in at .29.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

That's a pretty good CD it seems. Thanks for the info. Wow, .29 on the C6--that is low.

[syborg tt]

The cuda at Rad Rides isn't you standard cuda the car is beyond incredible. You can't truly appreciate the craftmanship and the research that goes into a car like that one unless you see it in person being built. Everytime i go there they show me something else they did to the car to twick it that little bit more. I've got tons of pics of the car in various stages and all i can say is i can't wait to see it run.

I'll try to put up a few more pics

http://www.sportmachines.com/gallery/69-Baracuda

[Bob Johnson]

I can't believe that the Bonneville Cuda only gets one remark..Doesn't anyone else appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into this project. Poteet and Trepanier have raised the bar on Bonneville Cars to a new level. Tour his site and look at the build pix. You can't help but be impressed. I'd hate to know how many hours that it's taking..probably right up there with my Cuda. OUCH!! But Poteet has long arms and deep pockets..crazy thing is, Poteet has well over 10 projects going at this time...double ouch!!

[BADVELLE]

I can't believe that the Bonneville Cuda only gets one remark..Doesn't anyone else appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into this project. Poteet and Trepanier have raised the bar on Bonneville Cars to a new level. Tour his site and look at the build pix. You can't help but be impressed. I'd hate to know how many hours that it's taking..probably right up there with my Cuda. OUCH!! But Poteet has long arms and deep pockets..crazy thing is, Poteet has well over 10 projects going at this time...double ouch!!

Cooter, you are right, Trepanier is a magician and he has some very talented people behind him now. Also, you are right, Alan is a magician also, the things these guys do with cars just blows my mind. I look at the '60 Impala, Bumongous and Rumbler to mention a few from the early days, I saw all of these up close and personal, awesome then, but these new cars are on a different planet all together! Alan is the same way, the guy is out of control with these cars I see coming out of his shop! I would be hard pressed to pick between your Cuda and Poteet's, each are extremely awesome.

[Bob Johnson]

they're two totally different pieces. workmanship on both is innovative, creative, and the execution is over the top. Both projects started off with a vision.. detailed plan, artists renderings, and workers dedicated to do a project of unequaled quality. These kinds of projects show regular guys what can be done..Everyone can learn from these cars..You'll see lots of ideas pop off these cars..gets everybody thinking

[Doug Cooper]

gets everybody thinking__________________
Bob "cooter" Johnson

It's got me thinkin!

[Steve Chryssos]

Bob,
Rad Rides is no race car shop. So they'll have to prove themselves with this car. Gotta run the number. Overall, the car looks overbuilt to me. That might be okay at Bonneville since weight is less critical. I'm sure it will be a tremendous learning experience for them. And it's the perfect lead-in to true high performance cars for them since Bonneville blends hot rods and racing so well.

Your car is a street car first so the same rule does not apply.

As for the low response rate, remember that this is a hot rod club not a racing site, so many members just cannot relate unless they have seen the thing in person. Others can't relate unless the thing's got a V8, working headlights and fat tires. So don't be getting all uppity. Anyway, here's the actual webpage. That might make it easier for people to window shop.

http://www.radrides.com/69cuda.html

[syborg tt]

Rad Rides is no race car shop. So they'll have to prove themselves with this car. Gotta run the number. Overall, the car looks overbuilt to me. That might be okay at Bonneville since weight is less critical. I'm sure it will be a tremendous learning experience for them. And it's the perfect lead-in to true high performance cars for them since Bonneville blends hot rods and racing so well.

Funny i recall seeing a 69 Camaro Race car in the shop with a full billet block and heads.

As far as troy's shop not raising the bar. Let's look at John TT Vette that has over 35,000 miles on the motor and it's got over 1000hp. Then he stepped up the bar and built the Chicayne. Yep another 1000hp car that been driven to more events them most of the cars on this site. SO saying he's not a race shop i think your off just a little.

As far the 69 cuda being overbuilt - i think that most of the cars on this site are overbuilt for what they are doing with them.

Ex. do you really need 1400hp in a camaro - no i don't think so. But just remember if Rad Rides wouldn't have done it first there wouldn't be that many tt cars on this site.

Ex. 2 - Stielow Cars - yep he's raised the bar over and over again and after the mule was completed they ended up putting a tt motor in it.

I remember when there were just a few tt cars and everyone was shocked to just see one. Heck now you can go to a local cruise night and see one.

just my 2 cents

[Steve Chryssos]

That's alright. Your opinion, my opinion. Thinnk about what I said: If that cuda runs the number, it will UP their performance identity. That's all I'm saying. The 69 Camaro is not a car that anyone knows about, so it does nothing for their identity. Chicayne is a really fast, really cool burn-out machine. John Meaney's vette is an all motor modified vette. Rad Rides did fab work. The baddest mofo to comme ot of Rad Rides was built by Mark Stielow: QuadraDeuce.

So Poteet's 'cuda will be a good thing for Rad Rides because it's being built 100% in house and will get a lot of exposure.

Sounds like a compliment to me.

[syborg tt]

I agree with you. If they do 300mph then you it will add to everything they have already done.

[Bob Johnson]

don't realize how anyone could take my comment as being uppity. I think Troy's and Alan's shops are about anything they want them to be. I don't see how anyone that knows and appreciates anything mechanical, could look at the pictures of the fab work on that Poteet Cuda and not be in awe... Same goes for Alan's work on my Cuda. I'm not saying they'll run 300 first time out, but I'll bet they do it before one of the Vipers do it. What's amazing, they'll be doing it with a 4 cylinder. Weight is not only not critical at Bonneville, it's most times a necessary evil. If you cannot generate enough downforce with your body work, you have to add weight. Trepanier needed that car to weigh about 5K lbs.(or get an equivalent amount of down force.) Just about everyone at Bonneville adds weight. Troy said he was getting enough down force that he didn't think they would have to add weight. Those cars have to dig in to get traction on that salt. Poteet's been playing in the salt for a brief 3 years or so. He would have run 300 last year with Flatfire had the weather not been so bad. Poteet could have gone to any shop in the country. He can afford anything he wants. He has a lot of confidence in Troy. Their past successes prove him right. He didn't get where he is making dumb decisions.

[Bob Johnson]

That's alright. Your opinion, my opinion. Thinnk about what I said: If that cuda runs the number, it will UP their performance identity. That's all I'm saying. The 69 Camaro is not a car that anyone knows about, so it does nothing for their identity. Chicayne is a really fast, really cool burn-out machine. John Meaney's vette is an all motor modified vette. Rad Rides did fab work. The baddest mofo to comme ot of Rad Rides was built by Mark Stielow: QuadraDeuce.

So Poteet's 'cuda will be a good thing for Rad Rides because it's being built 100% in house and will get a lot of exposure.

Sounds like a compliment to me.
It's my opinion all this Cuda will do is put icing on the cake. And the cake that Trepanier has made is mighty sweet..w/o any icing..Alan and Troy are 2 young guns that work 70 or so hours per week. They are distancing themselves from the rest of the field. anyone that wants to compete with them is going to have to be one smart dedicated workaholic cookie surrounded by talented guys..That's my opinion..and I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday

[Steve Chryssos]

You sound upset Bob?

[Bob Johnson]

You sound upset Bob?
Naw..just blowin smoke..

[Bill Howell]

Hey Bob,
I got Steveo on the phone. I had to explain the turnip thing to him. You know Yankees don't even know what a turnip is, much less why they ride trucks. Keep it simple stupid......lol

[Bill Howell]

OK, I have translated your post to him and guess what, both of you are on the same page, talking the same thing, actually typing in English, but never one of you know what the hell the other is meaning. I got Steve straight on what you are saying, I will call you later and translate his post to you.

[Bob Johnson]

OK, I have translated your post to him and guess what, both of you are on the same page, talking the same thing, actually typing in English, but never one of you know what the hell the other is meaning. I got Steve straight on what you are saying, I will call you later and translate his post to you.
I'm not peoed..everyone is entitled to his opinion. I didn't realize my post was that emphatic. What Steevo said didn't bother me..even though I think the Sniper was far more influential than the quadradeuce ever was..I also have the utmost respect for Stielow, while in reality he isn't capable of doing what Alan or Trepanier are doing because he is working this as a part time deal out of his garage and has nothing like the resources, time, and money at his disposal that Alan and Troy do. For what he spends, he does a remarkable job. But the reality is, it's not to the same level. I know that will blow up a lot of skirts here, but that is reality.

[Steve Chryssos]

......even though I think the Sniper was far more influential than the quadradeuce ever was....
Couldn't agree more.


But the reality is, it's not to the same level. I know that will blow up a lot of skirts here, but that is reality.
Couldn't agree more.

I think you're changing the subject. As far as I could tell, we were talkin about rod builders going land speed racing. Bonneville, Maxton--whatever. Anyone who talks about going 200 or 300mph has a real challenge ahead.

Maybe if I summarize:
1) I'm GLAD that Rad Rides is going after 300 and (since you brought it up) JHRS is shooting for 200. I'm glad because their efforts swing the hobby's pendulum towards function.
2) All the positive vibe in the world won't help either of those two cudas run the number, so the proof is in the pudding. (There, I even used a fancy coloquial expression)

I think we are agreeing.

[Bob Johnson]

Couldn't agree more.


Couldn't agree more.

I think you're changing the subject. As far as I could tell, we were talkin about rod builders going land speed racing. Bonneville, Maxton--whatever. Anyone who talks about going 200 or 300mph has a real challenge ahead.

Maybe if I summarize:
1) I'm GLAD that Rad Rides is going after 300 and (since you brought it up) JHRS is shooting for 200. I'm glad because their efforts swing the hobby's pendulum towards function.
2) All the positive vibe in the world won't help either of those two cudas run the number, so the proof is in the pudding. (There, I even used a fancy coloquial expression)

I think we are agreeing.
after looking at the Wheel to Wheel facility..maybe Alan and Troy aren't a race shop after all..lol ... that's some set up they have up there .... Glad they aren't throwing their hat in the Goodguys ring..

as far as the 200 and 300..we'll both get where we want to go..we haven't spent all this money, time, effort etc. just to give up..we aren't wired like that..

[Steve Chryssos]

Now explain to me why you were riding around in a truck full of root vegetables?

[Bob Johnson]

Now explain to me why you were riding around in a truck full of root vegetables?
The Cuda broke down, and who else would pick up an old, fat, ugly, perverted s.o.b...they wouldn't even let me ride in the cab..

[syborg tt]

Now explain to me why you were riding around in a truck full of root vegetables?

"hey or should i say hay" some of us like trucks

[Steve Chryssos]

"hey or should i say hay" some of us like trucks

It was the vegetables that had me worried.

[syborg tt]

It was the vegetables that had me worried.

now that's funny

[F70t/a]

don't realize how anyone could take my comment as being uppity. I think Troy's and Alan's shops are about anything they want them to be. I don't see how anyone that knows and appreciates anything mechanical, could look at the pictures of the fab work on that Poteet Cuda and not be in awe... Same goes for Alan's work on my Cuda. I'm not saying they'll run 300 first time out, but I'll bet they do it before one of the Vipers do it. What's amazing, they'll be doing it with a 4 cylinder. Weight is not only not critical at Bonneville, it's most times a necessary evil. If you cannot generate enough downforce with your body work, you have to add weight. Trepanier needed that car to weigh about 5K lbs.(or get an equivalent amount of down force.) Just about everyone at Bonneville adds weight. Troy said he was getting enough down force that he didn't think they would have to add weight. Those cars have to dig in to get traction on that salt. Poteet's been playing in the salt for a brief 3 years or so. He would have run 300 last year with Flatfire had the weather not been so bad. Poteet could have gone to any shop in the country. He can afford anything he wants. He has a lot of confidence in Troy. Their past successes prove him right. He didn't get where he is making dumb decisions.



I love the fact that it has an Air Ride Suspension.

[Bob Johnson]

It was the vegetables that had me worried.
maybe a truck load of gourds/melons..been laying out in the sun all day..all warm and juicy..country boy's got his knife there to cut a nice hole in one..uhhh..ya'll go on with what you were doing...uhhh..what the hell's a country boy going to do with a root vegetable..those are for country girls...you yankees just ain't right in the head..bunch of perverts..

[SickDesign]

So does this car, with it's coated aluminum firewall, exposed tubing chassis, and functional NA hemi, present a an opportunity for a new era? One where function is beautiful--not something to be hidden by covers?

In answer to your question, and to get back more on subject, YES. I believe that this "era" has been evolving some time. The styling cues brought forth by Foose and Troy mixed with the new concepts from the big 3 have progressed over the past 4 or 5 years.

This car has taken the best attributes of performance and styling from all the top cars made up to date and rolled it into one neat, clean powerful package. I think you will soon see more and more cars of this quality rolling out of shops in the future. Some may be as good, some even better, but I think it will always have the distinction of being the "first". Any future cars that are based off of this can only be a constant compliment to the foresight,innovation and talent that went into building this car.

Or, I'm just full of crap and don't know what I'm talking about, take your pick:bsjerk:

[Bob Johnson]

In answer to your question, and to get back more on subject, YES. I believe that this "era" has been evolving some time. The styling cues brought forth by Foose and Troy mixed with the new concepts from the big 3 have progressed over the past 4 or 5 years.

This car has taken the best attributes of performance and styling from all the top cars made up to date and rolled it into one neat, clean powerful package. I think you will soon see more and more cars of this quality rolling out of shops in the future. Some may be as good, some even better, but I think it will always have the distinction of being the "first". Any future cars that are based off of this can only be a constant compliment to the foresight,innovation and talent that went into building this car.

Or, I'm just full of crap and don't know what I'm talking about, take your pick:bsjerk:
I'll pick the option that you know what you're talking about..thanks for your compliments on the Cuda..

[SickDesign]

I'll pick the option that you know what you're talking about..thanks for your compliments on the Cuda..

You're welcome, well deserved.Hopefully I will get to see it up close, but being stuck up in Mass. leaves my options pretty narrow. Good luck with it!

[Bob Johnson]

I need to get the Cuda engine from Alan's shop in Gadsden, Ala. to Indy Cylinder Head in Indianapolis, Indiana..any ideas?

[syborg tt]

I need to get the Cuda engine from Alan's shop in Gadsden, Ala. to Indy Cylinder Head in Indianapolis, Indiana..any ideas?

I can make a couple suggestions as i have shipped at least 10 engines in the past 3 years.

Your best bet is to get a metal Engine Dolly or make a metal engine dolly and then secure it to a heavy duty wooden Pallet.

Once it's secured to the pallet you build a Plywood box around the engine so no one know's what's in there. Don't be afraid to use good wood either. You goal is to protect the engine.

You also want to put a sacrificial corrugated carton on the top of the pallet to prevent the shipping guy's from placing another pallet on top of your skid as crushing it. I can also send you "Do Not Double Stack Labels" to put on the pallet.

I have some really good pictures of a lotus body that was crushed in transportation from some idiot putting a heavy pallet on the crate.

Fed Ex Freight would be the common Carrier of Choice since they are one of the largest and most reliable (est 200.00).

You must tell them that you want it insured for full value and it is a new engine 'Not Used". You will also need proper bill of lading & packing list stating the contents of the engine and pallet. I can create one for you if you like.

Your other option is to call a private car Hauler (open trailer guy's) and have them haul it for you and they usually only charge loaded miles.This may seem a little safer in the end as you know the guy is going straight there with your engine.

shoot me an e-mail if you need my help

[email protected]

[Bob Johnson]

I can make a couple suggestions as i have shipped at least 10 engines in the past 3 years.

Your best bet is to get a metal Engine Dolly or make a metal engine dolly and then secure it to a heavy duty wooden Pallet.

Once it's secured to the pallet you build a Plywood box around the engine so no one know's what's in there. Don't be afraid to use good wood either. You goal is to protect the engine.

You also want to put a sacrificial corrugated carton on the top of the pallet to prevent the shipping guy's from placing another pallet on top of your skid as crushing it. I can also send you "Do Not Double Stack Labels" to put on the pallet.

I have some really good pictures of a lotus body that was crushed in transportation from some idiot putting a heavy pallet on the crate.

Fed Ex Freight would be the common Carrier of Choice since they are one of the largest and most reliable (est 200.00).

You must tell them that you want it insured for full value and it is a new engine 'Not Used". You will also need proper bill of lading & packing list stating the contents of the engine and pallet. I can create one for you if you like.

Your other option is to call a private car Hauler (open trailer guy's) and have them haul it for you and they usually only charge loaded miles.This may seem a little safer in the end as you know the guy is going straight there with your engine.

shoot me an e-mail if you need my help

[email protected]
thanks for the input..