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View Full Version : so who did the head and cam swap on their ls1



phoenixdawg
02-11-2006, 08:48 PM
just started pulling my swap ls1 motor apart tonight with the hopes of doing a head and cam swap, anyone else here done this? What cam and heads did you use, any hp/tq numbers?

derekf
02-11-2006, 09:20 PM
I used ported stock heads and the Thunder Racing 224/224 cam on a 116LSA.

No dyno numbers until it's in the car though.

phoenixdawg
02-11-2006, 09:21 PM
Derek what kind of performance gains do you think you will see?

derekf
02-11-2006, 09:22 PM
I'm expecting 450ish rwhp.

I don't know if those are realistic expectations though.

phoenixdawg
02-11-2006, 09:27 PM
nice to see you are a Panama Vet, I am to did the jump in with the 82nd Abn Division, I was a platoon leader then got to follow on with the first desert invasion. Good times, but don't really miss it.

450 would be a nice number.

ilovefirstgens
02-11-2006, 10:10 PM
i jus finished a putting a cam and valvetrian in, as well as rod bolts (prone to breaking in highter rpms) as well as a ls6 intake and ported throttle body, conservatively looking for 400 at the tires

Steve1968LS2
02-11-2006, 11:36 PM
I used ported stock heads and the Thunder Racing 224/224 cam on a 116LSA.

No dyno numbers until it's in the car though.

I did the same cam.. stage II heads.. elec water pump and LS6 intake.

Made 380rwhp and 362tq through an 4L60e and larger converter. Oh, and we couldn't get it to lock up.. Oh, and I was hindered with the S&P shorty headers

My next cam will be considerably bigger.. lol

phoenixdawg
02-12-2006, 08:02 AM
I did the same cam.. stage II heads.. elec water pump and LS6 intake.

Made 380rwhp and 362tq through an 4L60e and larger converter. Oh, and we couldn't get it to lock up.. Oh, and I was hindered with the S&P shorty headers

My next cam will be considerably bigger.. lol
Bigger being how big 224/228 with 114 or 112 lsa or bigger yet? I was thinking something in this range with Stage II heads and throwing about a 3000 stall on my 4l60? Thoughts? Do you think headers are a must? Long tubes seem to be the way to go. I have heard good stuff on using the 2001 and later Corvette Manifolds as an alternative to shorties.

phoenixdawg
02-12-2006, 08:09 AM
[QUOTE=Steve1968LS2] elec water pump and LS6 intake.


is there some inherent benefit to the electric pump over the mechanical, I would assume some weight savings, maybe some hp gain since electrical and not mechanically driven to rob hp.

Steve1968LS2
02-12-2006, 09:25 AM
Bigger being how big 224/228 with 114 or 112 lsa or bigger yet? I was thinking something in this range with Stage II heads and throwing about a 3000 stall on my 4l60? Thoughts? Do you think headers are a must? Long tubes seem to be the way to go. I have heard good stuff on using the 2001 and later Corvette Manifolds as an alternative to shorties.

How about a 230/232 with a 114+2 LSA :)

But remember that I am running a 6L LS2 and the extra displacement can suck up more camshaft. Also, I am running an M6 this time and it's easier to run a larger cam with a manual trans. With the larger displacement the motor should still have great street manners.

I doubt the shortiess perform any better than the 01 vette manifolds, thier only benefit is that they look better and weigh less. If I was on a budget or wanted a sleeper I would port out the stockers and have them thermal coated before I would run shorties. Your best gains though will be from mids or longtubes.


[QUOTE=Steve1968LS2] elec water pump and LS6 intake.

is there some inherent benefit to the electric pump over the mechanical, I would assume some weight savings, maybe some hp gain since electrical and not mechanically driven to rob hp.

Some.. Meziere has dyno show up to a 10hp gain plus it is a bit lighter. Oh and you have the ability to cool the motor between runs :)

And best of all.. it's beautiful to look at. Hey, you can look good and perform.. lol

Zedzag
02-12-2006, 10:21 AM
I just put a 228/232 on 112 in my rebuilt LQ4. I had the heads shaved for more compression but I'm seriouslt looking at some Patriot LS6 STG 3's. I can't tell you how it runs yet but my S&P mounts are on the way so hopefully I'll have the engine where it belongs soon.

slownova
02-12-2006, 11:48 AM
i have a tr 224 cam also and tea stage 2 heads and a ls6 intake and made 418hp at the wheels

Steve1968LS2
02-12-2006, 01:19 PM
i have a tr 224 cam also and tea stage 2 heads and a ls6 intake and made 418hp at the wheels

Better than I did.. was that through a M6?

WS6
02-12-2006, 02:29 PM
TEA stage 2 heads are great heads as are their 5.3L stage 1.5 heads

pheonix we need more info on what type of power you want and where you want that power to be made. also need to know what rearend gear your running. your choices on heads/cam combos are all over the place power wise. you can do mild and be in the 380 rwhp through an auto or mid 400s. just depends on what you need and want. also whats the approximate weight of the vehicle this is going in?

few pointers to keep in mind through all of this.

dont waste any money on a FAST intake if your NA and stock cube, the LS6 manifold is plenty.

LS2 ex manifolds are an excellent choice if you dont want headers, Long Tubes are the best though.

use ARP head bolts. they are not torque to yeild and they only need to be torqued, no torque angle gauge needed for proper torquing.

GM head gaskets and exhaust gaskets are the best to use.

electric water pump is your call. im not a fan of electric water pumps on anything that gets street driven. ive read too many i forgot to turn on my water pump or water pump stopped working and i didnt know it threads. its a preference thats all.

2800-3200 stall converters are excellent for the street and work well with a wide range of cam choices.

for an auto try and keep the LSA on the cam at 114 or higher. also make sure its ground 4 degrees advanced. that would make it a 114+4. most cams are ground +4 unless otherwise noted. a 112 will work but it gets rougher and doesnt really offer more power for the trade off in negative drivability that youll incur.

phoenixdawg
02-12-2006, 02:54 PM
Curb weight of a 1968 Camaro Vert about 3800lbs as I recall

Looking to get between 400-450 hp and 400 lbs tq.

Primary needs - will be daily driven with the occasional romp on the street.

Rearend 3.08 posi - not a drag ratio I know, but works well for the type of driving I will be doing. Eventually the 10 bolt will shred itself and I will move on to the 12 bolt with 3.42 or 3.73 or the like, but until then.

nitrorocket
02-12-2006, 03:15 PM
i have a tr 224 cam also and tea stage 2 heads and a ls6 intake and made 418hp at the wheels

My motor made the about same before I turbo'd it. I have a 224 on 114. Same TEA heads.

slownova
02-12-2006, 04:09 PM
Better than I did.. was that through a M6?
yea M6 and 112,000 miles in a 98 t/a :bananna2:

WS6
02-12-2006, 06:07 PM
is that the same 8.5 ten bolt used in later second gen cars? if so just build id and forget it. that thing will handle gobs of power.

if you plan on running a 4L60E take advantage of the overdrive and ditch the 3.08s 3.73s will suck gas on the interstate and give awsome off line accelleration. 3.42s will get better gas milage on the interstate but you give up just a little accelleration off the line. also 3800 lbs needs a lower gear ratio than 3.08 unless you have really good torque.

are we talking flywheel horse power or rear wheel horse power? if you want rear wheel your talking a fairly agressive setup for an auto. if flywheel then thats easy and mild. if your talking flywheel then consider the type of driving you do most with this car be it street or interstate and base you gear ration on that. i would lean towards 3.73s though.

2800-3200 stall preferably 3000-3200 but they all sound like they will work for your needs.

if you can afford it TEA stage 1.5 heads will bump the compression a little. that should broaden your powerband. i think Dart also has a smaller CC chamber head now too that will bump compression and still run 92/93 octane. not sure on that. you dont have to bump your compression though. if you simply want to have your heads ported or work on an exchange basis then look at prices and your budget and figure what will fill your needs. i see no reason not to bump the compression .5

cam choices are huge in this area. realize that while you may have 15 different cams to choose from that are all very similar, dont pull your hair out they will all perform similar. so base it on who you like and the prices. also id personally stay with anyone who has Comp Cams grind their cams. thats a preference again though. id stay for your car in the 224-230 range with 230 being the more agressive end. this range will give you good midrange torque and power. the top end will be extended but you want loose your bottom end. the closer to 230 you move the less bottom end you have.

so if this was my car id go with TEA stage 1.5 heads or any quality ported heads. LS6 intake. a comp cam in the 224-228 range only because i prefer a smoother idle. LSA of 114+4 or even 115 or 16 if availible. 114 will be fine for the street and have a nice mellow chop at idle. 116 is almost a stealth cam. 3000-3200 stall with 3.73 gears. this would make a fun car with good street manners and very usable power power band. also if you have to swap valve springs yourself, comp cams 918 spring kit with retainers and push rods will be fine. your stock rockers are fine too. this combo should put you in the 370-400 rwhp and torque range which is close 450 at the flywheel. oh youll need LS2 exhaust manifolds or 1-3/4 primary headers. if 1-5/8 headers are availible they will work too and give you a little more torque than the bigger tubes. do not get 1-7/8 headers for this setup.

this is just how i would build the car. someone else may come along and say its crap. i prefer a car thats fun to drive and performs well versus being the billy badass at the drag strip who has a car that only moves if its really hammered on.

oh and Thunder Racing has Comp grind all their cams. the TR224 that a few have here already would be an excellent choice.

phoenixdawg
02-12-2006, 06:22 PM
You are a wealth of knowledge, very sound advice and sounds like a real nice setup for my car. Tell me about TEA heads is that the brand? I have heard of about everything else AFR, SLP, Texas Performance, Dart, Edelbrock, etc.

WS6
02-12-2006, 06:59 PM
no TEA is a company out of Ohio. TEA stands for Total Engine Airflow.

heres their LS1 offerings. http://totalengineairflow.com/products/gmhead/gmls1/

id think the Stage 1.5s would work perfectly fine for you, but since they are the ones doing the work its always a good idea to simply tell them what your thinking about and see what they recommend. its their product they should know it even better than me.

some other companies of interest that do excellent work with LS1 cylinder heads

www.motorsporttech.com
www.advancedinduction.com
www.futralmotorsports.com
www.speedinc.com has offerings but im not sure if they do the work themselves or what. they are a sponsor here and their banner/link is on the right of the screen.
www.stainlessworks.net who is also a sponsor here has good headers for your car.
www.thunderracing.com has the cams that others have used and they also have cylinder head offerings, but again im not sure if they themselves are doing the heads.

WS6
02-12-2006, 07:17 PM
aw crap forgot something huge yet thats not. do you have center bolt valve cover heads with the coil packs mounted on a bracket or are they perimeter bolt valve covers? i can not remember if the TEA 5.3 heads are center or perimeter bolt heads. believe it or not switching over from perimeter to center bolt covers is not cheap or easy. the parts arent easily availible from GM and used they arent cheap or easy to find sometimes. so when searching for heads keep that in mind if you have the perimeter bolt valve cover heads.

also do you know if your engine already has the LS6 intake? the intake will be flat and square on the bottom instead of curvy. also there is no EGR provision at the front top of the intake.

also if you got the engine out of a vette, i dont think the oil pan will fit. if it does it really puts a hamper on what exhaust options you have. i honestly havent done this swap. i just know the LS engines

phoenixdawg
02-12-2006, 08:44 PM
the heads are center bolt style. It does not have the LS6 intake(future mod), thanks for the tips.