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View Full Version : Which supercharger????Procharger or Vortech



corys69ss
02-05-2006, 07:00 AM
I am in the market for a supercharger for a 502 with aluminum heads. The cam is 211/230 & 510/540 full roller. I can change the cam no problem for one better suited for this aplication (if needed). Comp. is around 8.75. I do not want to run a cooler right now or at all if I can help it. Hood clearance is also a concearn. 69 Camaro stock cowl. I like the idea of the blow thru Vortech, but alot of guys seem to like Procharger better. The car will have ps also. I think there is some modification to get that to work. What size headers?? Thanks in advice guys. Cory

dhardison
02-05-2006, 07:13 AM
Cory, I'm still undecided between the two brands as well, but here's a thread that might help.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11252

Dan

corys69ss
02-05-2006, 07:27 AM
Thanks Dan, looks like the Vortech might be best for me. Around 8 psi with no cooler. I would like to know for sure about hood clearance, also would a 118cc chamber aluminum head be better than 110?

dhardison
02-05-2006, 12:03 PM
Cory, yeah I've been leaning more toward the Vortech as well. I don't have the facilities for fabricating a lot of bracketry and such so the 'kit' appeals to me at this point. I'm concerned about hood clearance as well. Here are some other links that might be of interest to you.

I'd think the 118cc heads would be better to keep base compression down.

http://www.superchargersonline.com/product_listing_MTV3b.asp?MfgID=Vortech&Cat3=gm_carbureted_chevy_kits&Fits_VehMake=GM
http://www.superchargers4less.com/vortech/index_gm.htm
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/support/
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0411ch_huffin/

Dan

dhardison
02-05-2006, 12:13 PM
Cory,

Here ya go.

http://www.capa.com.au/kits_vortech.htm

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/02/kits_vortech_bbchev_size_big-1.gif

Dan

speedster
02-05-2006, 01:52 PM
Also the 118 heads may keep the valves unshrouded a little better.

corys69ss
02-05-2006, 02:25 PM
Thanks guys

ProdigyCustoms
02-05-2006, 04:12 PM
We can get you either one. My choice is procharger. If we can help, let us know.

dhardison
02-05-2006, 04:48 PM
We can get you either one. My choice is procharger. If we can help, let us know.

Frank, any specific reason(s) you prefer ProCharger?

Thanks,
Dan

corys69ss
02-06-2006, 11:07 AM
what about using Procharger with the Vortect blow-thru, no intercooler???

ProdigyCustoms
02-06-2006, 01:32 PM
Frank, any specific reason(s) you prefer ProCharger?

Thanks,
Dan

Well, I guess because I am a horsepower junkie, and ProChargers simply make ridiculous horsepower. But technically, ProCharger continuously prove they have lower outlet air temps, allowing more boost with a given octane. Also, boost for boost, in other words, 10lbs VS 10lbs with another blower, ProCharger always wins proving they are simply more efficient. Also, the ProCharger is self contained, so it is truly a bolt on, NOT requiring a hole punched in the oil pan for installation. Lastly, in my experience with Vortech, and talking to their people, their HP claims are out of line with general science.

I do not really have anything bad to say about Vortech and quality; I think they are both good blowers. I am a master distributor for ProCharger, and have a operating agreement with a Vortech master distributor, so I could get you either brand for a good deal.

Because everyone gets numb to whatever horsepower they have, and because a pulley change makes it so easy to add some horsepower. I always like to see a buyer get a bit too much blower so the blower is not working to hard, and for possible growth, or even to have if maybe for another project. My recommendation for a blower for both of you would be a F1R. You'll have to call for pricing, but basically, it will run about the same as the V7 YFI, and is capable of twice the boost on your size motors. You could get by with a D1SC if you really think 800 range HP is all you will ever want, and you can save some money that way also.

ProdigyCustoms
02-06-2006, 01:35 PM
what about using Procharger with the Vortect blow-thru, no intercooler???

There are some aftermarket hats available that work killer

speedster
02-06-2006, 03:08 PM
cory69ss -
I agree with Frank. Similar to our discussion on "the other board"

corys69ss
02-06-2006, 06:33 PM
Frank, I will pm you to get a #, I would like to give you a ring tomorrow. Cory

69MACH1
02-07-2006, 01:55 AM
I have a Vortech with almost 20,000 miles on it that I am very happy with and it still makes 15psi. The issued mounting plate flexed too much and a steel plate was fabricated, after that no problems with the belt. I also am running a cogged belt drive which combined with the blower give the car a very tough and menacing sound even at idle.
Mike

ProdigyCustoms
02-07-2006, 02:59 AM
Hey Mike, how many cubic inches is your set up?

DeltaT
02-08-2006, 04:01 PM
But technically, ProCharger continuously prove they have lower outlet air temps, allowing more boost with a given octane.


Frank, I have never seen anything that 'proves' this. Procharger doesn't publish compressor maps - Vortech does, so I have nothing to compare the two.

I do know the YSi blower is one of Vortech's most efficient blowers at 79%.

Here's their YSi map:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

How much boost are you thinking of running?

Jim

PS I'm very happy with my Vortech V-2 SQ S-trim. I just wish I had know they make a V-2 SQ T-trim. Mine maxes out at 7.7# of boost after the throttle and FMIC. Still good for 723/692 on my 383, at the crank!

ProdigyCustoms
02-08-2006, 04:21 PM
Jim, at only 7.7 lbs, they probably are not much different. Where the problems start is when trying to run a lot of boost on pump fuel, or just running a lot of boost period. Especially when trying to force 500".

DeltaT
02-09-2006, 04:52 PM
The problem is that Cory doesn't want to put in an intercooler, so he's going to run into a boost wall pretty quickly on pump gas. Blower efficiency will help keep outlet temps down, and his 8.75CR will help, but I don't think he should expect to run more than about 10-12lbs. on pump gas.

I'm still wondering how you can state that Procharger has "proved" they have lower temp output per pound of boost. Without a compressor map, there's no way to tell except controlled unit testing. I find the fact that they won't publish maps to be suspicious - like they're afraid they won't measure up.

Cory, what are your boost goals and HP goals? Are you dead set against adding an intercooler?

Jim

corys69ss
02-09-2006, 05:36 PM
I would like around 850 to the ground, but if a can harness that I might (or shall I say will want more!!!!). I'm not dead set against intercooler, but trying to keep cost down. I,m doing alot to the car at one time, so my budget has taken a back seat to more power. I don't want to short change myself for future improvements. Keep the info coming. Cory

ProdigyCustoms
02-09-2006, 05:39 PM
Look, I sell them both, so I am not going to get into a pissing match or beat on one or the other. I will tell you this, ProCharger does win the horsepower wars. Go to a NMRA race, or a " Street Car Race" like WSFs, and it is all ProCharger and turbos. You wanna see Vortechs, go to T N T night and all the new Mustangs will have them.

As far as proving the low outlet tempatures, there are plenty of examples of pump gas cars making sick horsepower.

69MACH1
02-09-2006, 07:37 PM
Frank, you were asking the displacement of my car: it is 418 ci in a stroked 351w with a T trim Vortech. With as many miles I have on the car it is getting a little tired and it is not scary fast like when I first bought it. I am hoping to replace the rings, bearings, oil pump and heads by the time summer is here.

Cory, you said you were hoping for 850hp to the ground. All I can say is be careful what you wish for. When I first bought my car the most recent dyno sheets were showing over 550 to the rear wheels. I can tell you that much more power than that might not be too fun on the street. Managing that kind of power is a tall order. My car is well sorted suspension and chassis wise, but I do not see it handling that much more power. I certainly have never wished for more. I have walked away from a 2003 ZO6 on the freeway and gone toe to toe with a Lotus Espirit up Hwy 1 at absolutely insane speeds.
In the long run you will have more enjoyment out a car that is well balanced. With so much power it will be very hard for the car hook up let alone go where you want it. You will not be able to skimp at all on the brakes or chassis. The other factors are heat and fumes; 850 hp is quite alot of heat and fumes.
Although I do admit it is nice to say 850 to the ground!
Just my opinion.
Thanks,
Mike

corys69ss
02-09-2006, 08:46 PM
Mike, thanks for the imput. I think you have a very valid point. I have a 65 Cobra that weights 2500 and has about 500 hp, and it does not do it for me anymore. I have to be realistic with putting it to the ground. I can honestly say I have never experienced 850 to the ground, but I would love to experience it. My main concern is spending my $ wisely, and being able to up-grade down the road. If needed. Thanks again for the imput. Cory

DeltaT
02-09-2006, 10:31 PM
Sounds like a handful! What tranny are you using?

Jim

corys69ss
02-10-2006, 05:59 AM
TKO 600 with Currie 9" 3.55's. I hope the trannie can handle it.

DeltaT
02-10-2006, 05:59 PM
So do I. That's gonna be way past the rated torque on that tranny, if you get it running as strong as I think you're talking about...

That's why I stuck with the auto and went built 4L80E.

Jim

corys69ss
02-10-2006, 07:29 PM
No auto for me. It has to be a stick.

DeltaT
02-10-2006, 09:43 PM
You might look into the Jerico transmissions then:

http://www.jericoperformance.com/2.html

You can get these comparable to a high-end Tremec plus $500, and they're rated higher in capacity, in most cases.

Light flywheel, good clutch and one of their 5-speeds would be primo. I like that idea but I'm not sure which I would pick next time. The 4L80E auto is sweet and I might try the Shrifter paddle set, or make my own. Then it might be close enough to a stick that you got the best of both worlds. OD or shift.

Jim

corys69ss
02-11-2006, 06:43 AM
Jim, I will be calling them Monday, If I can get a 5spd to hold up for a extra $500 bones that is well worth it. Thanks for the info, Cory

speedster
02-11-2006, 08:19 AM
Cory -
Keep doing your due dilligence, you will hear the never ending battle between Vortech and Procharger just like Chevy versus Ford. Most of my experience is in offshore power boats, where everyone runs Big Block Chevys. The ratio of Procharger to Vortech is probably 10:1 for BBC's there. On the flip side if you look at the large Mustang crowd that run 300 - 400 cu in. engines, it looks like they are running more Vortechs than Prochargers. It seems that small blocks favor Vortech and big blocks favor Procharger. They both make good units.

The following section is only personal opinion, so take it FWIW -
In my orginal BBC engine program the builder was going to run a Vortech YS trim unit. After talking to the techs from both manufacturers at the PRI show, we discussed options and decided to switch to a Procharger F-2. That switch may have proven to be the single largest impact we made. There could be as much as a 40 - 50% difference in power output. Maybe more. We don't know yet, but after the dyno sessions next month, we'll have some real data.

speedster
02-11-2006, 08:28 AM
DeltaT -
Thanks for the posting the link to jerico. Had forgotten all about them. May need one if the present tranny doesn't hold up.

corys69ss
02-11-2006, 07:34 PM
I will probably go with Procharger. I have been talking to Frank with Prodigy. He has given my some good advice. I think I will not be limiting myself for future upgrades by going with Procharger. I must say I,m impressed by the info I have gotten in a short time. Thanks for the advice.

ProdigyCustoms
02-11-2006, 11:11 PM
Cory -
Most of my experience is in offshore power boats, where everyone runs Big Block Chevys. The ratio of Procharger to Vortech is probably 10:1 for BBC's there. On the flip side if you look at the large Mustang crowd that run 300 - 400 cu in. engines, it looks like they are running more Vortechs than Prochargers. It seems that small blocks favor Vortech and big blocks favor Procharger. They both make good units.

The following section is only personal opinion, so take it FWIW -
In my orginal BBC engine program the builder was going to run a Vortech YS trim unit. After talking to the techs from both manufacturers at the PRI show, we discussed options and decided to switch to a Procharger F-2. That switch may have proven to be the single largest impact we made. There could be as much as a 40 - 50% difference in power output. Maybe more. We don't know yet, but after the dyno sessions next month, we'll have some real data.

Speedster has itexactly nailed.

OHCbird
02-11-2006, 11:33 PM
Exactly- most of the big-inch offshore programs I've worked with have switched from the GMC style blowers to Prochargers. The F2 is a sweet unit- you guys will love it.