Need a cheat sheet for the Aeromotive 13202

[whytry]

Just like the title says, I am looking for a cheat sheet for that regulator.

I know -10 in front is inlet, -10 on bottom is return,
-2 x2 is for carb dual feed lines, but what are other 2 for? Or should I block them off.

Also do I run a T on the line out for a fuel pressure gauge and for the Boost Reference to the Procharger?

[Matt@RFR]

http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/usrbin/productspdf/Regulators/13202.pdf#search='Aeromotive%2013202'

It's typical on a four-outlet regulator, to plug the two unused outlets when running only one carburetor.

The boost reference line should plug into the nipple that they've supplied. If you T'd this line, you'd be reading boost, not fuel pressure.

Fuel pressure should come from an 1/8"NPT port in the regulator, located by the outlets.

[pushrod243]

http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/usrbin/productspdf/Aeromotive%20Pressure%20Regulators/13202.pdf

looks like matt beat me to it

[whytry]

THanks!!!

Next question then, I have the MSD BTM and the Boost reference port on the MSD runs to the Carb Hat right? If this is so and the Boost reference on the 13202 runs to the hat as well as to my gauge is this to many T's in the loop? Is there a better way to run it? Or is this sufficient?


So I would have the BTM run to a T then off to the Carb Hat. The other portion of the T would run to another T and one of those the the Fuel pressure gauge and the other to the 13202 right.....

[Matt@RFR]

No sir. The fuel pressure gauge itself has nothing to do with boost. It should have a line from the pressure regulator to the gauge, and that system is done.

If you're getting boost from the carburetor hat, then you'll have a line coming from it, going into a 'T'. Then from the 'T', you'll have a line going to the regulator's boost reference port, and one line going to the MSD's boost reference port.

[whytry]

Damn, Matt your on the ball. I just posted this.

THANKS ALOT!!!! I was wondering how this was to be run. So I should then take one of the extra -8 ports and run that to the fuel pressure gauge, stepping it down to the -4 of the gauge of course....

Thanks again...

[Matt@RFR]

Brad, I'm sitting here waiting for a call from a vendor....I'm working I swear! :)

There should be an 1/8" NPT port near the 4 outlet ports. That's where you normally pick up your fuel pressure gauge, but you certainly can do it like you stated. It would take more fittings to do that though.

[whytry]

Really, now I am more lost. Where is the boost reference port on the 13202? I have the small 1/8" npt, 4 -8 ports, and 2 -10 ports. That's it. unless I did not see one of them.

[DeltaT]

Looks like they got rid of the fuel pressure 1/8th" NPT port. The instructions say to put it in a "suitable place".

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The silver shaft sticking out the right side on top is your boost reference port that should go to your manifold under the throttle, so it sees boost and vacuum. That line is what you T off to go to your BTM.

Any of the 5 ports on the sides of the main body can be used as fuel inlets OR outlets. Typically you'd use the big -10 center hole as the inlet, but you don't have to. The return is always the hole on the bottom.

For a fuel pressure gauge, I recommend you get a adapter from Earl's to go from the -8 O-ringed port (you choose which hole works best for your setup) to 1/8th" NPT, and just screw in the pressure gauge with some thread sealant on the threads.

Jim

[Matt@RFR]

That sucks. The illustration in the .pdf that was posted above shows a two-outlet regulator that does have the fuel pressure port, but apparently the four-outlet regulator doesn't have this.

So yeah, you'll have to adapt it like Jim said.

[whytry]

Ok cool. Thanks alot guys!!

[Y-TRY]

I recently went through all of this, too. I can quite surely advise as follows:

DO NOT run the BTM from the hat. The hat will show boost way before the manifold sees it.

DO NOT run the regulator from the manifold. The manifold will show vac. when your bowls are actually under boost:

Reference the Fuel Pressure Regulator (port with barb fitting) to the HAT ONLY. It's used to offset the boost present in the hat and the carb bowls. I did some testing and can verify that there is about 2-3psi pressure in the hat when the car is idling at 20hg vac. So your fuel pressure needs to rise proportionatley with PRESSURE IN THE HAT to keep this pressure from shutting out the fuel to the bowls. The testing was done by hooking up gauges to the manifold and hat at the same time. Watching the two gauges in real time is an eye-opener. If you reference to the manifold the car will lean out because the regulator will not sense the boost present at the bowls and this pressure will hold the needle/seat closed, if not offset on the backside.

The BTM, and boost gauge should all read MANIFOLD PRESSURE. As I stated above, pressure in the hat and pressure in the manifold are quite different. If you reference the BTM to the hat, you'll be getting a false boost reading and retarding your timing when the engine is actually under vac. conditions.

The only accessories referenced to the hat are the REGULATOR and CARB BASEPLATE. The hat has no bearing on what the engine is actually doing.

All other accesories need to reference actual manifold pressure (vac or boost). In my case, this means the Wastegates, BOV, Boost Controller, Boost Gauge and BTM all run from a single manifold port. I built a Vac. "Log" to accomplish this, but some companies actually sell them as "vacuum manifolds". This allows for one line to feed the log, then all other accessories reference to ports on the log. It really helps for packaging.

As far as the fuel system: (This tactic usually draws the most arguments) It is almost always best to run a bypass regulator, like that, in the RETURN LINE. Although most diagrams offer to feed the carb bowls from two smaller ports on the regulator, you can plug them. Run the fuel to the BOWLS FIRST, and mount the regulator AFTER the carb, like at the back of the fuel log. Fuel feeds in this order: Primaries, secondaries, into the regulator, out of the regulator and back to the tank. I have the fuel pressure gauge referenced on the regulator, also.

[shmoov69]

I was going to chime in and say the exact same thing about the BTM and Regulator lines, but you beat me to it! I have never heard about the reg in the return line, but I will not argue with you on that, but do have one Q, what will keep the float bowls from running over with the huge pressure from the A1000 if it is run that way?
I am assuming that you got all your problems from last year figured out!

[Y-TRY]

Yep, I got most of it figured out, thanks. That's why I posted so long, because I JUST went through that headache.

[shmoov69]

Any info on the regulator in the return?
Please! LOL!

[whytry]

Yeah can you give us some more info on this. I agree with shmoov69, can the floats handle the pressure from the A1000? And wht did you do run:

-10 from A1000 to a Y block then run (2) -8 to the carb, then what?

Or did you run a -10 fron the A1000 to a 3 way splitter and then (2) -8 to carb and (1) -8 as a return line the the regulator?

[Y-TRY]

With the fuel lines routed like this, the regulator maintains a constant pressure in the line. So the pressure is the same all through the line from the outlet of the pump to the inlet of the regulator. To be honest, I don't know the science behind it. It's just one of those things I have always heard. So I've always done it that way. I contacted Aeromotive when setting mine up and they confirmed that it was right. The regulator lets by just enough fuel to maintain a constant pressure in the line ahead of it. The carb never sees the full pressure of the pump. Think of a spillway on a dam. Pressure behind the dam is controlled by regulating the amount of water through on the front side.

My layout is kinda crazy- I have a stock tank with sump. Two -8 lines pull from the sump and up into a Y-block behind the licence plate. The Y-block is (2) -8 to (1) -10. The -10 goes to the filter and through the pump.

It's -10 all the way to the front of the car and is reduced to -8 just before the carb.

A -8 "fuel log" feeds (2) -8 inlets for the carb and flows into the inlet of the regulator after the secondary feed.

It's -8 exiting the regulator and back to the tank, where there is a 1/2" return line added to the stock pick-up plate. The stock small pick-up tube is just plugged.

In the engine compartment, I made some concessions for packaging around the turbos and stuff. Many guys see it and go "whoa, does that work?" Yes, it does. I maintain 7psi out of boost and I have never encountered any vapor lock. I'll try to get some pics of that side of the engine to show how mine is routed. It looks crazy at first, but works like a champ and looks pretty cool (IMHO).

[whytry]

YEah can you get some pics of it. I would like to see it.

My tank is sumped too with (2) -8's right now, I was looking at doing this as well, running both -8 to a y-block then -10 to the filter, pump etc. But after that is where I am still trying to figure it out. I think I get it. So you basically run a fuel log and then off the secondary line you have a "T" or a "Y" then one goes to the secondary and one goes to the regulator. right?

For you return did you just drill a new hole and then fill put the -8 return line in yourself? with some type of bulkhead connector?

[Y-TRY]

For the return line, I cut-off the original pick-up tube just below the sending unit, drilled a hole in the plate and added a bent piece of 1/2" stainless tube. I welded on an AN flare to the tube, too, so the -8 line threads directly on it.

Here's how it's set-up. Although this is for a different kind of pump and stuff. This is BG's. See where the regulator is? This is basically it, except for my Y-block and line sizes. In this layout, the entire system between the pump and regulator is a constant pressure, that you set.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Here's the typical way of doing it, except with a return line (this doesn't have one). It's my opinion that the top version is the better way to run a bypass regulator. The Aeromotive regulators can be used either way. My advice is to plumb it like the top one, using only the -10 inlet/outlets on the regulator and plugging all the -8's

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[shmoov69]

Hmm, makes sense! :hmm: I had not thought of it that way. I got it hooked up before the carb and now see that the carb is getting the "overflow" from the regulator which may cause it to loose pressure/volume under big boost and demands.
Thanks for the info! :usa:

[Y-TRY]

Funny howI did all this explaining and then found a perfect diagram. Proves that a picture really is worth 1000 words!! :headbang:

I'll still get a pic of mine because it varies a little from the diagram, because of the packaging and overcoming other issues.

[whytry]

That's a great pic!! I completely understand it now.

THANKS a lot!!!!

[DeltaT]

I have my EFI fuel system set up like you say, Y-Try, and like you show in the 1st diagram. I agree it is the right way to do it, and it's working like a champ.

That being said, I don't think the A1000 pump is the right one for your carb setup, Why-try. You will have to run a -8 return line and you will have fuel heating problems. That's really an EFI pump. I know because I have fuel heating problems with the A1000 to the point that I had to use a spare B&M Supercooler to run the return fuel through, and add the Aeromotive Pump Controller, which puts your pump down at half speed around idle.

Try this Aeromotive pump instead (Summit P/N AEI-11203):

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/02/aei11203_w-1.jpg


It's output pressure is 18-20psi, which can be more easily regulated down to the 6-8psi your carb needs, while still having the headroom to increase pressure as you boost the motor. That way you could run a -8 line up front, split to 2 -6 lines or flow into a fuel log like Y-Try mentions, and run a -6 return line. At that point you could probably find a more inexpensive Aeromotive regulator since you don't need -10 ports. Looks like this one would be perfect:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


That's Summit P/N AEI-13301, and it's only $111.

Jim

[whytry]

really? This is the pump that I thought most were running on this site with blow-through setups....

Should I rethink my current setup then?

[Y-TRY]

I have the A1000 and the 13201 regulator without any heat problems. I think it can be done with the controller without having to switch pumps. Locating and packaging seems easier with the inline pump.

[DeltaT]

Whytry, what are your HP goals?

Y-try, are you running the controller box?

Jim

[whytry]

Y-try - What's the "controller"?

DeltaT - I am planning on being around 800hp....

In old setup with TH350, 4500 stall, transbrake and slicks it ran 10.3's... Beat a couple 9.90's cars on the street, when I hit the bottle, but could not at Sac raceway, told to put back on trailer... no cage... :(

But I know 800 hp is doable with what I am planning on doing.

[Y-TRY]

The Aeromotive Fuel Pump Controller. I don't have one, yet, although I know the benefits. I just haven't seen the symptoms. Admittedly, not because I'm cool, just because I somehow have lucked out so far.

The Controller Works like a relay, limiting the power to the pump and slowing it down when under normal loads. Without the controller, the pump spins at WOT the whole time. The pump gets hot and is cooled by the fuel passing through it. Problem is- this tends to heat the fuel up, quite often causing vapor lock. The hot fuel just keeps getting cycled through the fuel system because the engine only needs a fraction of it under normal driving. Each time it goes through the pump, it heats up more (but does cool some during the trip).

DeltaT's idea is a good one, but if you already have the rest of the system planned, you can probably avoid this situation by just adding the box. I looked at other pumps, too, but placement for me was easier with the inline style of pump. The Controller is about $300, so it's an expensive fix.

My car is with my cousin, up at LG Motorsports (www.lgmotorsports.com), so I can't just go get a pic (75 miles from here, 250 from my house) But I'll get some pics when I get back up there next week)

[DeltaT]

800HP is doable with a blown 468, if you use a large intercooler. I'm figuring 525HP normally aspirated, so you've got to get 275HP extra out of the blower.

That gives you a rough pressure ratio target of 1.52, which would be like 1.43 intercooled, which would mean about 14.7 x 0.43 = 6.3 lbs of boost intercooled. With your bigblock you will need a high cfm rate blower. The Vortech YSi or the Procharger D-1 or F-1 should do it. Intercooling will allow you extra headroom to run on pump gas, and be able to jack up the boost a little for race gas and/or the track.

I'd also recommend getting a wideband O2 sensor so you could check your AFR realtime.

Here's my setup:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Sorry, At that power level you will need the A1000 and larger fuel lines. I didn't understand your target when I first answered.

Sounds like fun!

Jim

My Site: http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html

[Y-TRY]

Dang, DeltaT, that's SWEET!! Very nicely done, kudos!

[whytry]

I agree very nice!!!

Can you fill me in on running the O2 sensors? I have wondered about that in the past.. THX

[DeltaT]

Thanks!

The old style, narrowband O2 sensors basically act like a switch right at gasoline's optimal (stoichiometric - the ideal combustion process during which a fuel is burned completely) Air/Fuel Ratio, 14.7, or 14.7 parts of air to 1 part gasoline.

These old O2's are almost useless for a visual monitoring of your actual AFR, because it can only tell you two things about where the AFR is relative to 14.7: It's Higher! or It's Lower!. It doesn't tell you a numeric value. That's OK for simple engine management because it tells the fuel injection system which way to go to get towards optimal AFR. It's not OK for a gauge or monitor because it doesn't get any more specific than high or low.

The newer wideband O2 sensors tell you pretty precisely what O2 level is in your exhaust, anywhere from 10:1 (very rich) to 19:1 (very lean). The monitor is updated realtime. Best case you have some sort of device gathering and storing the data so you can play it back later. Like a drag racing pass or a tuning run on the highway. Otherwise, you can have a friend watch it and see what the general trend is, and tune your carb accordingly. You might see that you are generally running lean on the low end and fat up top, then change primaries, secondaries, etc. to dial it in. Typically you would want a lean mixture at cruise, a little fatter at idle, fatten it up in the midrange and top end. There are common AFR targets based on your cam, carb and motor.

Where I'm running fuel injection, the wideband is tied directly into the Holley 950 Pro computer, and so it is seeing exact AFR results from the last few combustion events, and it will adjust according to targets I put in based on engine load and rpm. I have a laptop and I can watch or datalog realtime AFRs as I tune, then read back the datalog at night and tweak my fuel map to get it perfect.

Check here for the FJO Racing Wideband Controller:

http://www.fjoracing.com/products/WBAFR/

I am running a slightly older version, but it's the same basic box. Looks like you could use this as a datalogger even on a carb-based system, and get a much more accurate tune.

Jim

[Y-TRY]

Dang, now I'm embarassed to have a carb!! LOL!