Baldwin Super Coupe SOLD

[killer69]

450,000.00 WOW

What else can be said
Other than the 70 ls6 chevelle convertable for 1,150,000.00

[Jim Nilsen]

I keep loving the show that is going on and I wasn't surprised that it went for more than the 427k conceived price. I also really like the car. But I have one question to ask? They kept saying that the engine is set back 13 in.. I kept looking at it and I looked at it at SEMA and online at the website. I set my engine back 6 in. that I know for sure and when I look at the Baldwin car it doesn't seem like 13 to me. I know that with a couple of mods they did it could be a bit decieving by a couple of inches but if it was really back 13 in. it would look like a 4th gen back under the windshield and it doesn't. I will get you all a pick of what 6 in. looks like if I have to but you guys tell me? does it look like 13 in. to you?

Otherwise I saw Charlie behind the guy trying to buy the LS6 Chevelle that went for over 1 million.

Jim Nilsen

[JoshC]

Was the buyer for the Car a call in or onsite?

[Itsadryhot]

The front suspension was moved forward and the fenders/hood extended as well.

[Mean 69]

Two possible things to consider: One, they might have bought the car themselves, knowing that the Barrett Jackson show would give HUGE publicity to the car, something to consider. The reason I say that, is relative to many other cars I have seen, it was a piece of poopy. I'm not kidding, for that money, it should be perfect. They had it on a lift and you could walk right under it, etc, as soon as I walked up to it, right at eye level, I saw a huge drip in the paint on the forward edge of the rocker (I took a pic, I'll see if it came out when I download them), I could not believe it. I looked at the detail of the quarter extensions, really not that good at all, there were several other things with it too. The guys I was with found even more things, I don't even have that good of an eye and could see lots of bad workmanship.

Thumbs down, big time.
M

[Jim Nilsen]

Ya know, when it stalled at 400k and didn't go anywhere I was wondering why they didn't drop the hammer? Then out of no where some other bids started to happen. Maybe you are right about someone from the inside buying it back so they wouldn't be embarrassed about the whole thing.
I would like to think that this isn't the case but it really would be hard to justify everything they have into it and the 427k asking price they dreamed up to begin with. It makes me wonder how much they have into the car since we all know how much was in Bob Johnsons Cuda!

Got any comments Bob?

Jim Nilsen

[DeepBlue68]

I was reading somewhere (I think it was in another thread on here) that they were hoping for something well over half a million out of that prototype car so that the $427k price tag for the production versions wouldn't seem so outrageous. Seeing how the Barrett Jackson is probably the pinnacle of overpriced cars, and they had trouble getting over $400k out of it, I'd say they might wanna take another look at their $427k asking price. Just my .02 though.

[69Nova]

Exactly.

[Steve1968LS2]

It makes me wonder how much they have into the car since we all know how much was in Bob Johnsons Cuda!


The Baldwin car is not even in the same league as the Johnson Cuda.. Bob's car has it beat hands down on workmanship and quality (and engineering)..

I thought it was funny how they held the car up there at $400k for so long.. they wouldn't be the first to buy back their own car and bay 16% for the privilage..

[Patrick]

I have to agree with Mean69. I saw the Camaro at PRI in Orlando. Get rid of the wheels and I think it has a lot of POTENTIAL...I was shocked that they would display it so proudly with so many flaws....

[JoshC]

I thought it was funny how they held the car up there at $400k for so long.. they wouldn't be the first to buy back their own car and bay 16% for the privilage..

My thoughts exactly... If the car did not sale for more than 427K the project was going to be in a little trouble...

[BRIAN]

I think both BJ and Motion lost some serious credibilty when they pulled that move at $350 and again $400k. the look on Joel's face said it all. It was the longest brake taken between bidding. So, there was a bidder at $450 that didn't bid at $350 when the hammer was about to be hit???

There were plenty of cars that didn't bring what people thought look at the Pinkies Roadster or the Red Chevy M80 for $80. I guess they weren't smart enough to pull the same move.

[Jim Nilsen]

Quote: The Baldwin car is not even in the same league as the Johnson Cuda.. Bob's car has it beat hands down on workmanship and quality (and engineering)..

Exactly what I was thinking , which is why I asked the question as to how much anyone thinks or knows they have into it? I have seen them both up close and know that the quality is not the same for sure and since Bob is usually pretty well spoken about things like this and the truth flows in his post I still wonder what he is thinking. I don't blame him if he doesn't post since slamming a car is not what anyone want's to do to a company like Baldwin but they have obviously done it to themselves in a very high profile way. It would sure be something to think they had more money into than the Cuda and only made it halfway to the benchmark of quality.

Maybe there are some lessons to be learned here and the curve spun them out a bit.

The Foose cars were parts of the auction that I missed but it seems like they went for realistic prices for what they were.

This is going to get real interesting before it is all over with isn't it?

Jim Nilsen

[killer69]

A ?

How do you buy back your own car? if the bidding is at 450........... what is thedeal do you have to pay the sell price or as mentioned a few posts back do you only pay the 16% ?
if the latter is true why would more people not bid up the price of their own cars?
please explane

[Steve1968LS2]

A ?

How do you buy back your own car? if the bidding is at 450........... what is thedeal do you have to pay the sell price or as mentioned a few posts back do you only pay the 16% ?
if the latter is true why would more people not bid up the price of their own cars?
please explane

You bid on your own car.. then you pay the 8% buyers and 8% sellers fees (16%).. I know this has been done a few times by guys that thought their cars were worth a bunch more than the bid price.

Barrett doesn't care who buys a car since they get 16% in any case.

Maybe the guys that buy back thier own have a buddy do it.. I just know one guy with a nice Woody bought his own car when the bidding stalled way below what he thought it was worth.

[Van B]

Barrett-Jackson likes to advertise 100% sale rate. If you consign your car there you are forced to put it for sale at no reserve. Could be a very costly proposition, so a seller is forced to bid on their own vehicle to "protect" it from selling for less than they will accept for it. If you buy your own vehicle back, I guess technically B-J can make you write a check for it plus the buyer's fee of 8% of the hammer price, and then turn around and cut you a check for the hammer price less 8%. More likely if you buy your own car back you just have to write B-J a check for 16% of the hammer price. In some cases this may be cheaper than accepting whatever the next highest bidder was willing to pay. That way the auction company can advertise that 100% of the consigned cars sell. The general public believes this to be true, because they saw it happen on TV. I guess in a literal sense it is true, but not for a second do I believe that EVERY car at that auction changes owners.

Sorry Steve, I was busy writing this as you replied.

[DeepBlue68]

Barrett-Jackson likes to advertise 100% sale rate. If you consign your car there you are forced to put it for sale at no reserve...That way the auction company can advertise that 100% of the consigned cars sell.
I'm almost positive I saw a car go across the block a couple years ago that had a reserve and didn't sell. I think the announcers were saying that the seller's fee increases significantly if you want a reserve on the auction. What you said is pretty much true though: basically every car sells.

[rockdogz]

I'm almost positive I saw a car go across the block a couple years ago that had a reserve and didn't sell.

It was my understanding that they used to offer a reserve option... now everything is no reserve

[Damn True]

Any word on if it was a buyback or not?

[Bill Howell]

I'm almost positive I saw a car go across the block a couple years ago that had a reserve and didn't sell. I think the announcers were saying that the seller's fee increases significantly if you want a reserve on the auction. What you said is pretty much true though: basically every car sells.
No reserve started last year. They did have some reserve cars in 04. You can be sure though, like any other auction on the planet, there were some cars bought back in, just the nature of the beast.

[Bigblue73]

If Motion bought the car back - 16 percent cost him $72,000 plus sales tax on $450,000 (8.5% = $38,250) if he was not using a certified trucking company.

Total expenditure - $110,250 for a no sale. Ouch!

Was the quality of the car that bad? Never seeing the car, I would expect more from them and the prototype.

[Charley Lillard]

There are buybacks but it costs 16%. If you are a AZ resident you also pay about 8% sales tax. My friend sold his Hemi Cuda convert for 2 mil. He lives in Az. If he had wanted to keep it he would have had to pay close to 500K to keep it. If you want to buy it back because you didn't think it was selling for enough you need to add the 16-24% and realize that is how much more you need to get out of it to get to the same point you are at the auction. For many it is better to sell. Others also need the money and can't afford to buy their car back. One guy this year thought his car didn't bring enough, drove through the security gate and was loading his car in his trailer when they handcuffed him. When the gavel drops, ownership changes. He was stealing a car.

[Steve Chryssos]

Was the quality of the car that bad? Never seeing the car, I would expect more from them and the prototype.

No, the quality is not that bad. But the expectations are that high. And rightfully so.

[Nine Ball]

I've seen the 'Cuda and the Motion Camaro in person. The build quality, craftsmanship, engineering, etc... are far better on the 'Cuda. I wasn't impressed by the Motion car at all for that asking price.

Tony

[Van B]

There are buybacks but it costs 16%. If you are a AZ resident you also pay about 8% sales tax. My friend sold his Hemi Cuda convert for 2 mil. He lives in Az. If he had wanted to keep it he would have had to pay close to 500K to keep it. If you want to buy it back because you didn't think it was selling for enough you need to add the 16-24% and realize that is how much more you need to get out of it to get to the same point you are at the auction. For many it is better to sell. Others also need the money and can't afford to buy their car back. One guy this year thought his car didn't bring enough, drove through the security gate and was loading his car in his trailer when they handcuffed him. When the gavel drops, ownership changes. He was stealing a car.

B-J has one hell of a racket. Wish I had thought of it. :idea:

[DeepBlue68]

B-J has one hell of a racket. Wish I had thought of it. :idea:
Yea no kidding. I wonder what Craig Jackson personally makes off that auction every year. I bet it's ungodly...

[Bob Johnson]

plenty of people have thought of it..it's not as easy as it looks..ask Drew Alkazar who used to run Barrett and now owns Russo Steele..ask Ebay who lost 200 plus million when they had to sell Kruse back to Dean Kruse..or ask ol Dean who isn't having a hayday himself..just like anything else..you gotta be the best at what you do..like Bill Gates..often imitated..never duplicated..Barrett is in a class of it's own..only R&M even approximates them this day and time..and they aren't even close..I've heard they're going to sell off about 1/2 of Barrett..nice payday for ol Craig...

[Bob Johnson]

Ron Pratt bought the car to go with the first Baldwin Motion Corvette he has..guaranteed you couldn't have driven a 10 penny nail up Rosen's as* with a sledge hammer when that thing was stalling in the 200K range..but that's why it helps to have Barrett with a vested interest in the sale of the car..so they will work the hell out of it..

[Neil B]

In my humble opinion from TV land, they let that Motion car linger on the block way too long. Even if a high profile car is under the money, drop the hammer just like every other car. The auctioneer has a responsbility to both the seller and the buyer.

[syborg tt]

I agree, we were there timing the cars. Some of the cars were on the for as little as 2 minutes 10 seconds ( m-80 is one that comes to mind )and others were on the block for over 8 minutes. When we contacted them about one of our cars the told us they each car would get a full 5 minutes. From what i can get the full five minutes is if the auctioner feels the cars may get more money, the dollars are climbing fast and they like your car. I did also notice that some of the bidders would come and sit down next to us to bid on a car and the minute it was over they would get up and leave. I saw this at least 10 different times in the 3 days i was there and none of these people won a auction they just drove the price up.

The other thing that upset us was the fact that we went there this year to get a feel for the Auction before we brought our 409/409 62 bubble to the show and later found out that one of the auctioners wasn't found of 409 cars and made a bunch of public comments about it. So looks like will going to take our car to the Meacum Muscle Car Auction instead.

[Bob Johnson]

they try to run 20 cars per hour..they seemed to spend more time on the cars this year than last..I haven't looked at how many ran vs last year per day but it seemed they didn't rush as much..during Speed Vision, the commercials etc have a lot to do with it too..they will drop the hammer if the commercial is fixing to start

[Bob Johnson]

anybody that knows jack knows that 409's on 61 thru 65 Chevys are cool..they've even gotten very cool in nostalgic hot rods due to their different look and unique sound on the high horse version with solids, forged pistons etc. You can buy a new 502 a bunch cheaper than building a quality 409..date coded high horse 409's are super expensive to buy initially and more to build..Nobody listens to those guys in the audience anyway..just the people at home on TV..you can't hear a word they're saying

[Bob Johnson]

when Barrett promotes a car like the Motion car, they want it to do well..I sit right next to Ron Pratt..I don't see him making a move until the car goes to a certain level..I think he may even have a figure set with the ringman before it runs..not sure but they probably know which cars he wants and what he is wanting to pay..not sure but that's an educated guess. He's the biggest buyer in the game..probably spent at least 10 million at this auction alone...Barrett Jackson is absolutely the straightest auction group by a long shot..but you've got to think he deserves some special attention for what he spends..I would be sucking up to him if I ran the show,,Barrett is audited continuously since they are the gorilla in this game..they can't pull the shenanigans other groups do

[syborg tt]

Well that makes me feel a little better.

[ironworks]

No, the quality is not that bad. But the expectations are that high. And rightfully so.



I was actually very surprised by the poor quality of the car.
1)The tie rods goes at an almost opposite angle of the a arms to compensate for the heavily offset wheels. This car must have a huge bump steer problem.
2)Plus the under dash and the pedals are stock pieces and a fancy lokar deal.
3)The under dash panel fits up poorly to the dash.
4)The use of sway bar bushing to hold the drive shaft loop is funny.
5)The brake line or fuel line that was to short so they added an extension is really trick.
6)Add finally check out those trick door handles from home depot, I just bought some of those for the silverware drawer at my house

I'm not some **** talkin pinto drivin idiot I build some ok stuff myself, but for the 427,000 askin price, you better buy you drawer pulls at Macy's.

[Damn True]

Give them a little credit, I think those door pulls are actually from Restoration Hardware.

[Bob Johnson]

I was actually very surprised by the poor quality of the car.
1)The tie rods goes at an almost opposite angle of the a arms to compensate for the heavily offset wheels. This car must have a huge bump steer problem.
2)Plus the under dash and the pedals are stock pieces and a fancy lokar deal.
3)The under dash panel fits up poorly to the dash.
4)The use of sway bar bushing to hold the drive shaft loop is funny.
5)The brake line or fuel line that was to short so they added an extension is really trick.
6)Add finally check out those trick door handles from home depot, I just bought some of those for the silverware drawer at my house

I'm not some **** talkin pinto drivin idiot I build some ok stuff myself, but for the 427,000 askin price, you better buy you drawer pulls at Macy's.
what was your take on the 57 Vette on the lift next to the Motion car?

[ironworks]

If you mean the silver one built by some nascar dude, I thought it looked really nice under the hood and outside, But I have not seen it in person. But I think it had a plama Tv in the trunk. Which is kind of MTVish.i think it had a ram jet 502 and stuff. That stuff is kinda typical, nice and powerful and stuff, but typical. Like an LS1 with corvette coil covers. I would love to see more pics. Did you buy it or do you have some relation to it?

I'm only baseing most of my opinion of the baldwin car on the pics on the net. I did see it at sema and it is a cool to look at just poorly executed. . I have a crazy nit picky taste.

Here is a link to my current project, it is on lateral G
http://www.lateral-g.net/members/lee/

I hear you are friends with James Eudy from Bakersfield.

Rodger

[Bob Johnson]

If you mean the silver one built by some nascar dude, I thought it looked really nice under the hood and outside, But I have not seen it in person. But I think it had a plama Tv in the trunk. Which is kind of MTVish.i think it had a ram jet 502 and stuff. That stuff is kinda typical, nice and powerful and stuff, but typical. Like an LS1 with corvette coil covers. I would love to see more pics. Did you buy it or do you have some relation to it?

I'm only baseing most of my opinion of the baldwin car on the pics on the net. I did see it at sema and it is a cool to look at just poorly executed. . I have a crazy nit picky taste.

Here is a link to my current project, it is on lateral G
http://www.lateral-g.net/members/lee/

I hear you are friends with James Eudy from Bakersfield.

Rodger
met James at Reno several times..he had a nice 57 Nomad that was picked the best of show at the Atlantis 2 years in a row..kinda weird since my woodie was there the 2nd year..and his nomad beat it..even by his own admission, the woodie was much more car..very strange picking the same car 2 years in a row..my last trip taking a car there..the judges are 10 years behind times..he had a super nice blue 62 vette set up like a 96 Grand Sport Vette last time I saw him..good taste in cars.. I didn't buy the 57 vette..I know the guy that built it. It has the limited production new ZL1 aluminum ram jet engine..C4 suspension..created a lot of interest..

[ironworks]

I just saw it on TV and it was nice. A ZL1 engine is way cool and do you know if it is a Newman chassis or did he do it himself?

I'm trying to talk james into a project idea I have. He is a good ol boy and a Really nice guy. His cars are nice but 2 years in a row for the same car, wow is that show rigged. The fit up on both of his cars are precision.


I know you have heard this before but your cuda is very nice, and if you had a dollar for everytime you have probabley heard that you could MAYBE build another one. There are some fresh cool ideas. I like originallity and a clear thought pattern in a build. Not just parts thrown togther cuz that is what is cool right now.
Rodger

[Bob Johnson]

I just saw it on TV and it was nice. A ZL1 engine is way cool and do you know if it is a Newman chassis or did he do it himself?

I'm trying to talk james into a project idea I have. He is a good ol boy and a Really nice guy. His cars are nice but 2 years in a row for the same car, wow is that show rigged. The fit up on both of his cars are precision.


I know you have heard this before but your cuda is very nice, and if you had a dollar for everytime you have probabley heard that you could MAYBE build another one. There are some fresh cool ideas. I like originallity and a clear thought pattern in a build. Not just parts thrown togther cuz that is what is cool right now.
Rodger
It was a chassis out of Illinois I think..not Newman or Morrison or Myers..It hung well below the rockers..probably 4 or 5 inches..James was going to get Neal Lea to build him a car..came over and talked to him..but I don't think he ever did anything..he was considering Alan too I think..he called me the other day after seeing the Cuda and was just Giddy over it..he figured it was mine when he saw Alan had built it..he's got nice tasteful well done cars..very understated and clean like I like them..thanx for the cudos on the Cuda..lots of thought went into that car..hope it runs as good as it looks..we'll soon find out..

[ironworks]

He has been waiting on Neil Lea for a while, but lea has been building a riddler I guess. James said his car was stored in in neils garage at home. James said he bought a new zo6 motor but I do not know if it is for the Impala that Lea has. I have some fresh ideas for a project that I was running by him on wednesday, and your car sparked a few of those and that is how your name came up, Just putting the bait out there.



What was your opinion of the baldwin camaro? You buy and sell and probabley saw it in person at barrett jackson.

Rodger

[BRIAN]

Bob Johnson just curious which Woody was yours? I buy just about every rag out there. Was it the orange scratch built fake woody? I do not mean any insult about fake I just know there was a high profile 40's car built I think from a coupe with painted wood. I am just curious as you have mentioned it a couple times. Thanks Brian


Motion cars have always been gaudy rides. Do any of the early ones look like show cars? Problem is the old ones were built to run and had no problem doing so. They should have posted some numbers to prove what it could do. Nice car yes, Nice $500k car NO!!

[Bob Johnson]

my woodie was a real 4 door woodie that Alan Johnson made into a 2 door. It was in the finals for Americas most beautiful street rod and lost to the v/12 Zephyr of Mike Shiflett..it lost street rod of the year to The Foose/Rydell Grand Master..It was at SEMA..Green with all blonde hard rock maple wood, kind of a terracotta cloth top and leather interior..It was on the cover of Street Rodder .it ran at Barrett last year did 214,000 and I bought it back.it's on johnsonshotrodshop.com as is the cuda and my 56 truck and my 69 Camaro, and I think my Blazer converted to a pick-up..

[BRIAN]

I always wanted to build a car with that color combo. It just looks classic and will never go out of style. Beautiful car and not the car I was orig thinking about.

[Bob Johnson]

I always wanted to build a car with that color combo. It just looks classic and will never go out of style. Beautiful car and not the car I was orig thinking about.
lot of people just don't like green..very tough getting a paint color to go with the wood, cloth top, and leather interior colors..we looked at a lot of combinations and unanamously chose the green..but it turned some people off..can't make everyone happy..car is very conservative, and like you say, it will never go out of style..Alan did a lot of work on that car..we were both disappointed that it didn't win more..but it doesn't help when you release it at the same time as The Grand Master..took the wind out of our sails..the master was a real bad as* piece and Rydell who owns it is a real gentleman..Chip Foose being involved didn't hurt it either..

[syborg tt]

Just an article i found

http://superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/completebuilds_testing/0602sc_motion/