Buying a pro-touring car (or project car) - What to look for and where to look?

[EnhancedAspiration]

Hi,

I've been having the itch for some time to get into a 1969 Camaro or possibly a 1966-1972 Chevelle. While I am admittedly a gearhead, and have grown up with a father working on various cars, there is still so much to learn about the different choices in frame, suspension and drive-train setup. This forum has been a tremendous resource in reading up a lot of various things.

What I am struggling with a bit is to find solid cars, where to look for them and what to look for.
A solid car to me is a full-frame build where the builder have prioritized the structural bits of the car, including the body work. Perfect paint work and fully custom and high end interior are not my priorities, and it is evident that particularly the latter drives a lot of cost.

I am actively checking this forum's for sale portion, bringatrailer and Facebook's various groups. However, the "good" cars seem far and few in-between, and the prices are just so scattered.
Admittedly, my preferred option would be to buy a project car with almost all the major work done, with just final finishing touches, interior and similar left to be completed, but finding these ones seem even harder. Not only would this allow me to potentially save some $, but it would also enable me to see more of the underlying components to understand the quality of any work that was done to the car.

Where would you advise me to look, or potentially post a WTB add or similar, to find a solid car or project car that has been built with a full frame?

What would you advise me to look for when buying a project, or a full car?
I've seen some horror stories of excessive rust repairs and similar, something that could easily be hidden under some bondo. Welds and bits of structural parts also appear critical, which makes full frame options very attractive to me to mitigate variations between sellers. With so few of them around, I expect I need to look nationwide and travel to wherever a good car is.

Thanks again for a great forum. Hope to become a part of the community and various events in the future.

[CSG]

Why do you want a full frame on a 69 Camaro? There are better ways to go about building that car. I have one for sale BTW, an unfinished build with almost everything to complete for 75K.

[JLMounce]

The problem with not being able to find what you are looking for is almost certainly because you are looking for a car that is being sold at the worst possible time for the builder. If a builder has put together a car, spent the labor and money to reach a point of being complete, except for things like interior or paint, it's almost never in their best financial interest to sell the car in that state. It's halfway between project start and project end and may represent something that the general buying public doesn't want. The only time you really see these pop up is when something has happened and the builder has to unload the project.

The guy with dollars to spend and no time or desire to do a build wants a completed car. The guy with time and desire to do a build wants the project at the start.

That's probably why you aren't finding much.

My advice, as a result would be to pick your poison. Do you want to build a car from the ground up, or buy a complete car? If you choose either of those lanes, it's gonna be easier to find a car you want, but there's also compromise. Buying a complete car is a lot of times cheaper in the long run than building a car, especially if you have to farm out labor. But it's more cost up front and you risk accidentally buying a pig with lipstick. Buying a project car and building it yourself takes longer and often costs more. The upside is that you get the car you want and you know the quality that you put into it.

Here's yet another option that might be worth entertaining. Buy and register a completed body as a kit car. While often needing some work to make perfect, it's absolutely possible to buy something like a Dynacorn 1969 Camaro shell, or one from a place like Real Deal Steel. You get a 100% brand new body, professionally put together and ready for final assembly and paint. With the F-body specifically, everything else can be nearly a bolt in affair. In fact you could quite literally bolt everything else in to that type of deal if you chose parts designed to do that. Roadstershop, RideTech, TCI all have frame and suspension solutions that literally bolt in and any welding/fabrication needed is usually on an axle, which they also will happily provide you already set up for their solution.

There's some paperwork and things you need to do to get the car registered and legal where you are, but it's not anything that can't be solved.

There are also shops that will do just the metal work for you. Find a car needing restoration in the best condition you can find and let the metal shop rebuild it on a frame table. You can have it delivered back to as a complete shell and you can complete the build from there. This is more time consuming and expensive that buying an aftermarket body, but you don't have to deal with not having a VIN.

[EnhancedAspiration]

Why do you want a full frame on a 69 Camaro? There are better ways to go about building that car. I have one for sale BTW, an unfinished build with almost everything to complete for 75K.
I figured a full frame car would be safer to buy as it wouldn't require much modifications related to structural parts for the builder, relieving some of the uncertainties relating to the build.
In what what do you mean there are better ways?

I will try to message you so I can get more information on the car!

EDIT: For some reason I can't seem to send you a message. You're welcome to send one to me if you are interested in providing more information.

[EnhancedAspiration]

The problem with not being able to find what you are looking for is almost certainly because you are looking for a car that is being sold at the worst possible time for the builder. If a builder has put together a car, spent the labor and money to reach a point of being complete, except for things like interior or paint, it's almost never in their best financial interest to sell the car in that state. It's halfway between project start and project end and may represent something that the general buying public doesn't want. The only time you really see these pop up is when something has happened and the builder has to unload the project.

The guy with dollars to spend and no time or desire to do a build wants a completed car. The guy with time and desire to do a build wants the project at the start.

That's probably why you aren't finding much.

My advice, as a result would be to pick your poison. Do you want to build a car from the ground up, or buy a complete car? If you choose either of those lanes, it's gonna be easier to find a car you want, but there's also compromise. Buying a complete car is a lot of times cheaper in the long run than building a car, especially if you have to farm out labor. But it's more cost up front and you risk accidentally buying a pig with lipstick. Buying a project car and building it yourself takes longer and often costs more. The upside is that you get the car you want and you know the quality that you put into it.

Here's yet another option that might be worth entertaining. Buy and register a completed body as a kit car. While often needing some work to make perfect, it's absolutely possible to buy something like a Dynacorn 1969 Camaro shell, or one from a place like Real Deal Steel. You get a 100% brand new body, professionally put together and ready for final assembly and paint. With the F-body specifically, everything else can be nearly a bolt in affair. In fact you could quite literally bolt everything else in to that type of deal if you chose parts designed to do that. Roadstershop, RideTech, TCI all have frame and suspension solutions that literally bolt in and any welding/fabrication needed is usually on an axle, which they also will happily provide you already set up for their solution.

There's some paperwork and things you need to do to get the car registered and legal where you are, but it's not anything that can't be solved.

There are also shops that will do just the metal work for you. Find a car needing restoration in the best condition you can find and let the metal shop rebuild it on a frame table. You can have it delivered back to as a complete shell and you can complete the build from there. This is more time consuming and expensive that buying an aftermarket body, but you don't have to deal with not having a VIN.

You are very right that it is the worst possible time to sell the car when its almost complete. They do come up, but its rare I have noticed.

Realistically, there is no way I would be able to build a complete car in a reasonable amount of time with all other commitments in life. Additionally, I wouldn't be able to house all the machines and other tools necessary to do the build, so farming out the labor would almost certainly make it more expensive than buying a full high-end build. My fear is otherwise just like you say, that you'd end up paying top dollar and get the pig with the lipstick...

Thanks for the recommendation on the Dynacorn. I actually didn't know about this. I think ideally though, the value in having an old car to me would be more valuable.


Do you have any recommendations as to what website or other places that I should be active to find any decent builds?
While there is a lot of information here on this website, it seems the activity is rather low. I suspect a lot of members are now more active in Facebook groups. However, I find forums much more valueable as a source of information and user friendliness.

Thank you.

[dontlifttoshift]

This is all just theory without a budget. The list of important things I am looking for in a 40k car are wayyyyyyy different than a 150k car.

[JLMounce]

You are very right that it is the worst possible time to sell the car when its almost complete. They do come up, but its rare I have noticed.

Realistically, there is no way I would be able to build a complete car in a reasonable amount of time with all other commitments in life. Additionally, I wouldn't be able to house all the machines and other tools necessary to do the build, so farming out the labor would almost certainly make it more expensive than buying a full high-end build. My fear is otherwise just like you say, that you'd end up paying top dollar and get the pig with the lipstick...

Thanks for the recommendation on the Dynacorn. I actually didn't know about this. I think ideally though, the value in having an old car to me would be more valuable.


Do you have any recommendations as to what website or other places that I should be active to find any decent builds?
While there is a lot of information here on this website, it seems the activity is rather low. I suspect a lot of members are now more active in Facebook groups. However, I find forums much more valueable as a source of information and user friendliness.

Thank you.

Yeah, this is almost going to necessitate that you purchase a completed car. Diligence and not getting emotionally involved are the keys to not ending up with an expensive turd. I would never buy one sight unseen and I'd probably steer away from auctions, there's too much hype and craziness and emotions are always high.

There's a YouTuber that put together a project car exchange website. I think it caters more towards tuner cars but I note there's some classic stuff there. You might check it out.

https://www.projectcarexchange.com/

[CSG]

I figured a full frame car would be safer to buy as it wouldn't require much modifications related to structural parts for the builder, relieving some of the uncertainties relating to the build.
In what what do you mean there are better ways?

I will try to message you so I can get more information on the car!

EDIT: For some reason I can't seem to send you a message. You're welcome to send one to me if you are interested in providing more information.

Specifically speaking about 1st gen Camaro's. These are a unibody car with a front subframe. The typical aftermarket frame for these cars does not perform better than a quality aftermarket front subframe, well designed rear suspension & subframe connectors. My car has a Detroit Speed subframe along with their rear quadralink suspension attached to a MillerBuilt full floating fabricated rear housing. You will find this to be most common setup with high end Camaro builds. The SpeedTech Extreme setup is another quality product that is popular.

I'll try to PM you

Edit: Pm did not work. My email is scott dot granger at yahoo dot com

[Vimes]

Something else you might consider is, not a Chevelle or a Camaro. Sure, they're nice but they also have a lot of demand even though looking at them objectively as a car there's nothing superior about them to other makes/models. A stock 70 Chevelle with a 454, the big daddy, had a quarter mile time of around 13.8 seconds. A Honda Civic Type R will run the quarter mile that fast, will out-handle it and will get twice the mileage to boot. Of course I'm not recommending a Civic, just using it as a reason to expand your search.

A Cutlass, Skylark or Lemans are basically the same car as a Chevelle, but cost less from the getgo because they aren't a Chevelle. Firebird, same thing on the Camaro side. Given a choice, I'd take a Nova, Omega, Ventura or Apollo (NOVA cars) over a Chevelle. The NOVAs are like a 7/8 sized Chevelle. Same styling but a slightly smaller size and about 200lbs less weight - a 1970 Nova with a small block V8 weighs 3166lbs while the same Chevelle weighs 3369lbs. You're starting off with 6 percent less weight stock, but can put the same drivetrain in either one.

http://chevellestuff.net/1970/misc/dimensions.htm
https://novaresource.org/weights.htm

There are also a ton of other cars that would make fine toys, whose 100 percent finished cost is around the same as a Chevelle or Camaro that is a rusted out rolling shell needing a full restoration. There's nothing wrong with them as cars, they just don't have the same following that the Chevelle and Camaro have. And who knows? That bargain you get today may be tomorrow's hot must-have. I'd suggest going to Auto Traders Classic, enter year range 1965-1975 and Nationwide, then just look at what's out there. You might find something more interesting.

[chevelletiger]

I have a 72 chevelle already painted speedtech
Bolt on front suspension pretty complete almost finished on the ly6 6.0 swap that has a built T56.
Im looking to get out of the classic muscle cars,and get a porsche 911 80s air cooled or 2016 carrera s.
Im in southern California.

[EnhancedAspiration]

Something else you might consider is, not a Chevelle or a Camaro. Sure, they're nice but they also have a lot of demand even though looking at them objectively as a car there's nothing superior about them to other makes/models. A stock 70 Chevelle with a 454, the big daddy, had a quarter mile time of around 13.8 seconds. A Honda Civic Type R will run the quarter mile that fast, will out-handle it and will get twice the mileage to boot. Of course I'm not recommending a Civic, just using it as a reason to expand your search.

A Cutlass, Skylark or Lemans are basically the same car as a Chevelle, but cost less from the getgo because they aren't a Chevelle. Firebird, same thing on the Camaro side. Given a choice, I'd take a Nova, Omega, Ventura or Apollo (NOVA cars) over a Chevelle. The NOVAs are like a 7/8 sized Chevelle. Same styling but a slightly smaller size and about 200lbs less weight - a 1970 Nova with a small block V8 weighs 3166lbs while the same Chevelle weighs 3369lbs. You're starting off with 6 percent less weight stock, but can put the same drivetrain in either one.

http://chevellestuff.net/1970/misc/dimensions.htm
https://novaresource.org/weights.htm

There are also a ton of other cars that would make fine toys, whose 100 percent finished cost is around the same as a Chevelle or Camaro that is a rusted out rolling shell needing a full restoration. There's nothing wrong with them as cars, they just don't have the same following that the Chevelle and Camaro have. And who knows? That bargain you get today may be tomorrow's hot must-have. I'd suggest going to Auto Traders Classic, enter year range 1965-1975 and Nationwide, then just look at what's out there. You might find something more interesting.

Great advice. The gen2 Camaro is another favorite with the split bumper. Very important to buy a solid car at the end of the day (probably more important than the desired model and year).

[EnhancedAspiration]

I have a 72 chevelle already painted speedtech
Bolt on front suspension pretty complete almost finished on the ly6 6.0 swap that has a built T56.
Im looking to get out of the classic muscle cars,and get a porsche 911 80s air cooled or 2016 carrera s.
Im in southern California.
Is it the full Speedtech frame, or just the bolt on suspension being Speedtech?
Is the LY6 built to be boosted? Sames rare running this engine in the muscle cars.

Don't blame you for wanting to get into Porsches. I would PM you but it seems I can't.

[badazz81z28]

I think you would be hard pressed to find a 90% done car to finish up…stalled projects, basket cases and completed cars are the options.

In 2026…I think the days of taking in a 69 Camaro project are over. The cars cost too much and the work to be done cost a fortune.

I suggest looking for a completed car, just inspect the car, you’ll see and easily find the shortcuts and poor work. It’s not hard.

I also suggest looking for a lesser popular car. Get the same performance and fun factor without the emotional 67-69 Camaro prices.

[EnhancedAspiration]

I think you would be hard pressed to find a 90% done car to finish up…stalled projects, basket cases and completed cars are the options.

In 2026…I think the days of taking in a 69 Camaro project are over. The cars cost too much and the work to be done cost a fortune.

I suggest looking for a completed car, just inspect the car, you’ll see and easily find the shortcuts and poor work. It’s not hard.

I also suggest looking for a lesser popular car. Get the same performance and fun factor without the emotional 67-69 Camaro prices.
I am suspecting so also.

Seems Facebook groups and marketplace is where these cars are sold nowadays. The cars that you see on reputable dealer websites are just priced out of madness from what I have seen. I don't mind pay for the right car, but it appears the dealers are able to mark the cars up significantly from even BaT.