Ralph LoGrasso
01-11-2006, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Steve Chryssos aka StreetFytr68 (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/member.php?userid=152)
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Tony,
I hate posting in the engine section because some rocket scientist usually argues with me just for the sake of argument. But since Yody is gone, I'll give it a try.
Most folks don't know the real reason why the LSx engines are so damn good. So I will provide an anecdotal comparison in laymen's terms so that everyone gets it.
The LSx technology is really not anything new. In 1988, you could get what were called Dart "Buick" conversion heads for your small block Chevy. What? Buick, huh? Forget the name. It's irrelevant. What these heads offered were the following:
-Shallow valve angle: 14 degree as opposed to the stock 23 degree
-Raised Intake ports
-Spread, symmetrical intake and exhaust ports (as opposed to the standard siamesed port locations)
-Small fast burn chambers (No. GM did not invent that term. Still pisses me off)
The heads flat out made killer power. They were commissioned by--you guessed it--Buick for NASCAR use. But the bare castings alone cost about $3500. Exclusive race car limited production stuff. And they came semi-finished so that each engine builder could machine and port them to their own specs. More $$$ THEN you had to buy conversion pistons, conversion intake, conversion headers and Jesel rockershaft valvetrain to accomodate the revised valve angle and port locations. All told the typical conversion engines started at $35K. Other conversion applications followed. Probably the most well know is the Dart Big Chief (aka Pontiac) big block conversion heads. All or most of these projects were funded by GM racing and produced by aftermarket
casting manufacturers for use in NASCAR, Pro Stock, etc. The GM Pontiac big block head program was dropped by GM when the money switched from Pontiac to Oldsmobile--hence the "Big Chief" name.
Whew! Are ya still with me? Sooo what GM has done here is take all that tried and true exclusive race engine technology and put into every V8 car and truck falling off an assembly line. Economies of scale. When you buy an LSx, you are getting shallow valve angles, raised and spread symmetrical ports and other stuff aluminum block castings for assembly line prices. So for a true apples to apples comparison, you really need to compare that LSx engine to a minimum $35K gen one small block. Bargain of the century!! Folks argue the Gen1 vs LSx max power all day long. That's silly. It's where and how in the rpm band it happens. Here the LSx kicks ass because of that technology. I'll say it again the answer to your question is:
-Shallow valve angle: 14 degree as opposed to the Gen1's 23 degree
-Raised Intake ports (straighter shot to valve)
-Spread, symmetrical intake and exhaust ports (as opposed to the standard siamesed intake and exhaust port locations)
-Small fast burn chambers (available on aftermarket GEN1heads as well, but the other stuff is where the big investment comes from
-Revised Firing Order
-----------------------------------------------------------
Tony,
I hate posting in the engine section because some rocket scientist usually argues with me just for the sake of argument. But since Yody is gone, I'll give it a try.
Most folks don't know the real reason why the LSx engines are so damn good. So I will provide an anecdotal comparison in laymen's terms so that everyone gets it.
The LSx technology is really not anything new. In 1988, you could get what were called Dart "Buick" conversion heads for your small block Chevy. What? Buick, huh? Forget the name. It's irrelevant. What these heads offered were the following:
-Shallow valve angle: 14 degree as opposed to the stock 23 degree
-Raised Intake ports
-Spread, symmetrical intake and exhaust ports (as opposed to the standard siamesed port locations)
-Small fast burn chambers (No. GM did not invent that term. Still pisses me off)
The heads flat out made killer power. They were commissioned by--you guessed it--Buick for NASCAR use. But the bare castings alone cost about $3500. Exclusive race car limited production stuff. And they came semi-finished so that each engine builder could machine and port them to their own specs. More $$$ THEN you had to buy conversion pistons, conversion intake, conversion headers and Jesel rockershaft valvetrain to accomodate the revised valve angle and port locations. All told the typical conversion engines started at $35K. Other conversion applications followed. Probably the most well know is the Dart Big Chief (aka Pontiac) big block conversion heads. All or most of these projects were funded by GM racing and produced by aftermarket
casting manufacturers for use in NASCAR, Pro Stock, etc. The GM Pontiac big block head program was dropped by GM when the money switched from Pontiac to Oldsmobile--hence the "Big Chief" name.
Whew! Are ya still with me? Sooo what GM has done here is take all that tried and true exclusive race engine technology and put into every V8 car and truck falling off an assembly line. Economies of scale. When you buy an LSx, you are getting shallow valve angles, raised and spread symmetrical ports and other stuff aluminum block castings for assembly line prices. So for a true apples to apples comparison, you really need to compare that LSx engine to a minimum $35K gen one small block. Bargain of the century!! Folks argue the Gen1 vs LSx max power all day long. That's silly. It's where and how in the rpm band it happens. Here the LSx kicks ass because of that technology. I'll say it again the answer to your question is:
-Shallow valve angle: 14 degree as opposed to the Gen1's 23 degree
-Raised Intake ports (straighter shot to valve)
-Spread, symmetrical intake and exhaust ports (as opposed to the standard siamesed intake and exhaust port locations)
-Small fast burn chambers (available on aftermarket GEN1heads as well, but the other stuff is where the big investment comes from
-Revised Firing Order