Fabri-cobbling a Autocross Chevelle

[416velle]

Hello all, this is the first post regarding my pride and joy, my 1969 Chevelle that I'm building for autocross! I'm pretty close to driving the thing out of the garage (first time in 3 years), basically axles/differential/fully finishing rear suspension, and some other odds and ends.
To address the elephant in the room, yes this car does have a homebuilt 3 link! I'm in the final stages of mock-up testing and finish-welding it, so I figure now is the perfect time to detail my reasoning and thought process behind some of this along with my goals. Also I just like to build stuff :D

The basics of the setup:
69 Chevelle Malibu
Engine/Trans
-Mildly wild stroker LS3 (13:1 compression, Wiseco/K1 bottom end, ported/milled LS3 heads, ported/rodmod LS3 intake, ported TB, decent size cam), running on corn, brain dyno says 680hp all day.
-F-body T56 (bronze shift fork bushings, serviced synchros, not magnum-ed so I have to go easy on it), Spec 2 disc clutch, American Powertrain hydraulics kit
Front Suspension
-UMI Upper arms, QA1 lowers, Speedtech ATS spindles, ABC Performance sway bar, Ridetech TQ Triple adjustable coilovers, Wilwood 14" 6 piston Aero6 brakes.
Chassis
-Factory Chevelle frame with a HPI Customs Frame Brace kit, Fabricated rear control arm crossmember, 5 added bodymounts

Now, the interesting stuff!
Rear Suspension
-Quick Performance 9", Millerbuilt Floater kit, UMI Lower arms, Ridetech TQ Coilovers, Wilwood 4 piston FNSL brakes, Fabricated Upper Link and Panhard Bar!

My goals with the 3 link was to address the shortcomings of the triangulated 4 link and allow me to go a little faster in the turns. I'll detail those in specific post shortly.

[416velle]

Here are a couple pics of where I'm currently at.

Now, my reasoning for the 3 link comes down to 5 things.
1-It looks so darn cool.
2-Adjustable antisquat. This car is(will be) lower than crimes against the Geneva Conventions; after crunching some numbers and research, the geometry in regards to squat kind of pops a squat when the car is as low as it sits right now. So I have a LOT of adjustability in the control arms for dialing in the squat, ie. upper arm AND lower control arm mount positions. I will be crunching the numbers and doing the measurements to find where exactly the COG is and where the instant centers are front and rear so i can minimize pitch the leat amount needed.
3-Adjustable Roll Center. This one is my "secret" to handling SIGNIFICANTLY better than a well-set up upgraded factory suspension car. After a LOT of research, pondering, more research, some reverse engineering of suspension systems from HIGHLY competitive companies, I came to the conclusion that having a roll center AT or SLIGHTLY BELOW the axle centerline is really where I want it to be. Factory roll center with the triangulated 4 link is very high, and some companies don't even recommend a sway bar because its relatively close to the center of gravity essentially making it pointless . Well, its science that if you don't have some affinity of weight transfer, you don't have traction in corners! Now I will be able to tailor the roll center to my driving style, traction, track conditions, basically find where the car wants to be at, and actually utilize a rear sway bar for its intended purpose.
4-I just like building stuff.

Some other reasons not entirely notable are; controlled and predictable axle articulation; weight, all said and done the 3 link setup will be lighter than the 4 link, which gives me a cushion for some other things on this car that increase the weight namely the entire rear axle assembly, frame brace kit, 18" wheels, etc.

For anyone that may be wondering; I will be running a 18x11 and 315 tire at all 4 corners, it does not require modification in the rear (just some measuring and sickeningly expensive wheels) but will require some inner-fender work up front if you decide to run those (I'm not because theyre far too heavy :D).

A couple things to brain-dump (like a photo-dump but different);

The panhard bar is a mock-up piece; my parts are a week away and I got impatient. The swiss-cheese looking frame plates are for plug welding, more strength (if it makes me think its stronger, I'm doing it). The cushion-block bodymounts above the crossmember are disgusting from fire yes, they will be coming out and solid bushings going in, I just don't quite know yet exactly how I'm going to "box" the kick-outs to the crossmember. The control arm tie-bars will be installed with some doubleshear mounts to the crossmember, eventually. Yes that is indeed a bodymount where the upper control arm mounts to the frame; I was afraid the force of 700hp on that arm would twist my welds to the frame, so with that in mind if it wants to move at all under load it now has to break my welds, twist chromoly tube, break the eventual boxing to the bodymount kickouts on each side, break the control arm tiebars, AND pork the crap out of the body crossmember which is actually fairly thick metal. Sway bar is not in yet nor is it mocked up because I don't quite know if I want to bolt on or weld sway bar mounts to the axle.

Later this week when the parts arrive I will do a complete mock up of the rear and start to fully weld it.

[andrewb70]

Cool build! Looking forward to the updates.

Andrew

[Hotwire]

Damn man, you literally just did the bucket list I have for my rust bucket!!

[416velle]

206286

[416velle]

Proper panhard bar built and mocked up, coilovers mocked up for clearance, something feels off because nothing is fighting me here!
Waiting on some tabs for reinforcing the crossmember to the lower arm tie-bars, then i can start fully welding everything up, also decided on a strategy for bodymount-crossmember boxing. Rear axle will come out tomorrow for final assembly of floater ends/brakes, paint, and axle measuring.

[David Sloan]

Cool project!
I’m in for updates.

[TitanFox]

Looking good so far. Interested in seeing how those tires fit up front.

[chevelletiger]

I'm also doing something similar as you except a torque arm.
From what Blake at speedtech said ,was ti set the panhard bar 8.00 to 9.00 from the ground.

[chevelletiger]

Looking good so far. Interested in seeing how those tires fit up front.

68-72 chevelles fit an 18x11 315 30 18 pretty easily.

[416velle]

You have to do the measurements on your specific rig, i found a 6.5” backspace fits best but i have thick meaty wilwood lugdrive rotor rubs and hubsaver shims. 18x11s fit wonderfully WITHOUT INNER FENDERS for how low my car is/negative camber settings/ackerman steering arms and no modifications needed, no tapping anywhere at all which is a plus (taiwan fenders so not like i would care too much :3 anyways)

Super low with 2.5° negative camber WITH inner fenders would require the “roof” to be raised right in the meat of the fender lip, and a securing bolt/cagenut to be removed. I had rubbing over big dips even with a 275/17x9.5 5.5” backspace wheel previously.

[416velle]

I'm also doing something similar as you except a torque arm.
From what Blake at speedtech said ,was ti set the panhard bar 8.00 to 9.00 from the ground.

This is good to know, thank you.
I have 4” total adjustment so i guess ill have to think about where to put it at to start out!

[416velle]

206324206325206326

Got the rear fully welded and basically final assembled (except for bodymount reinforcement and control arm tiebars). Got the thing on the wheelstands (infuriating) and its like i need a 1-2” shorter spring in the front or something. Maybe this is “lowered” for normal people but its a skyscraper for me, and i dont expect settling to take a full inch out of the neutral height. *sigh* Will call ridetech tomorrow and see what their recommendation is. Or if anyone here has a recommendation? I do remember fighting the thing on the way in because i had to compress the spring by hand to get the spanner nut threaded in.

[Kcrain]

Do you have the weight of the engine in?

[416velle]

Yes, thats whats frustrating. The car is as heavy as its going to get up front with the exception of fiberglass hood and bumper.

[marolf101x]

Do the front shocks have the dropped upper cap, or are they flat like the rear?

[416velle]

Do the front shocks have the dropped upper cap, or are they flat like the rear?

The kit comes with some 2.75" drop caps, I did look to see if theres shorter caps which there are, but they're only 3/4 inch shorter and a pair of springs were cheaper.
So I bought some inch shorter springs, those will give me an inch of wiggle room. 800lb/in, 7" height.
My options if that doesn't fix it are:
-2" drop caps
-run a MUCH softer spring rate
-a combination of everything

The instructions did say specifically "Recommended for use with Ridetech Strongarms for proper installation" (I have QA1's) which leads me to believe the lower eye mount point may be lower on their arms, it doesn't look to be the case from the pictures though.

[Olds.PhD]

The instructions did say specifically "Recommended for use with Ridetech Strongarms for proper installation" (I have QA1's) which leads me to believe the lower eye mount point may be lower on their arms

Yes, they do:

"Lower StrongArms feature a double sheer lower mount for increased strength. We have also dropped the lower shock mount to increase suspension travel and moved the lower ball joint forward to increase caster settings while keeping the wheel centered in the wheel opening. Injection molded Delrin bushings with 13% Teflon are used to reduce deflection and stiction."

That is in the description of the full suspension kit.

[marolf101x]

I was referencing this. . .
206333
It moves the spring down 0.75"
If you have this you can swap out to the "flat" cap, and the lower threaded spring retainer will move up 0.75", which will allow you to lower it more.
I designed them for an 8" spring. The threads stop short of the top of the shock. That's so you can never preload the spring so far it binds, which will cause spring sag or settling.

The lower control arm should be parallel to the ground at ride height (from center of ball joint to control arm frame mounting bolt should make a horizontal line)
It can run uphill slightly (ball joint higher than frame pivot), but don't go crazy. Remember, everything was designed around the ride height mentioned above.

The 7" spring will help, but I strongly suggest you remove the shock and measure the mounting points at your desired ride height.
The Ridetech mount in the lower control arm is lower than the QA1 (difference between the monotube length and the twin tube length, the monotube needs more room to fit the dividing piston and nitrogen chamber)
If you desire a very low ride height you might run out of shock stroke. It'll bottom out mid turn and unsettle the car.
If this is the case you can go to the 3.6" stroke shock.

[416velle]

Thank all of you for the info. I will tonight be measuring my travel from bumpstop-ride height and shock mount-mount/shock travel and compare that to the ridetech instructions. If i can get away with not changing lower arms i WILL, if i get a different set ill go with UMI more than likely because the dropout bottom mounts and if the 2 options of heights it comes with dont work, i can build some to be perfectly what i need.
Headache. Guess thats what i get for running 10 different companies stuff for one car

[416velle]

After some mock up....I found my shocks are COMPLETELY BOTTOMED OUT at the ride height I desire. Some goofball will be begging and pleading with Summitracing to take back some QA1 arms and swapping out for the ridetech ones.
I think I will be keeping the different springs I bought and maybe mess around with them once I have the correct lower arms in.
I KNEW something had to completely ___ me over given how uneventful and easily the rear suspension came together. Maybe this is a calling that I need to re-engineer the front susprnsion too lmao

[matthimself456]

Maybe look into a Speedtech Chicane setup or this similar one from Global West:

https://www.globalwest.net/cof-42-chevellefrontcoilover.html

This modification seems like it falls easily within your fab skills.

[marolf101x]

I was going to say, if you can’t move the lower mount down, move the upper mount up.
You want roughly 5 inches of suspension travel in the front.
So motion ratio determines shock stroke length.

[416velle]

I decided to get some different lower control arms, extremely begrudgingly.
I would go with the ridetech ones but will be going with UMI because the lower shock mounts are removable and there are 2 available heights they make; this also means if the dropped mounts arent enough for my desired ride height, i can put the thing as low as i absolutely want and built my own set of mounts to not worry at all about neutral shock location.

[marolf101x]

You can’t drop the lower too low or it’ll hit stuff, like a manhole cover during construction. Ask me how I know.

[416velle]

You can’t drop the lower too low or it’ll hit stuff, like a manhole cover during construction. Ask me how I know.

Jeez o man. Noted lol

[speedfreakcobra]

You can’t drop the lower too low or it’ll hit stuff, like a manhole cover during construction. Ask me how I know.

I kinds want to hear this story.

[416velle]

206475206476206477

It almost looks like i did all the proper measurements (i didnt, absolutely none LOL), clearances out back are PERFECT with the fuel cell mocked up. Welded some doubleshears on for the control arm tiebars, came out pretty good. Also finally did some bodymount reinforcements; dont really like em but to do em the way i REALLY want to id have to pull the body again, so not gonna happen. Currently am caliper brackets away from buttoning up the rear suspension/brakes all the way and putting the fuel cell back in. I have parts coming for rear sway bar too, I think ultimately I will wait til the first couple autocross sessions to determine whether I really NEED it or not.

UMI front lower control control arms come tuesday; i hope their drop mounts will equate to my desired ride height.

[marolf101x]

Now flip the shock over to make mounting the resi easier, and so the hose or fittings don’t get torn off.
Looks good!!!

[416velle]

Now flip the shock over to make mounting the resi easier, and so the hose or fittings don’t get torn off.
Looks good!!!

Thank you. I thought about doing that but I like the knob on the top because its accessible through the trunk, so i don't have to get on the ground under the car.

[416velle]

Question for you given you worked for ridetech, about part no. 90002048 which is a 2" tall stud mount....looking at it as its installed in a vehicle, does it move just the spring position up (in relation to the 2-3/4" mounts that come factory with my kit) or does the entire shock assembly essentially become 3/4" shorter? Only asking to kind of assess a fall-back plan to hopefully not have to make super low mounts for my lower arms if the car isn't doesn't sit the way I want it at 50% shock travel. You mentioning an unfortunate scenario with a manhole cover got me a bit weary about this now lol

[marolf101x]

The 2" tall stud top makes the shock itself 0.75" shorter overall. However, you still retain the same stroke.
You'll likely not be able to use the shorter stud top as the upper spring cap will hit the OE frame. You could cut more away to provide clearance and use the 2" stud top, just make sure you weld the OE shock mount and anything else on the frame that looks like it was welded on a Friday after the guys stopped by the bar after work on Thursday evening.

Regarding the manhole cover story. . .I was developing a new lower control arm for the C10's and trying different lower mount ideas.
We had a "test loop" that ran outside town a couple of miles. It was great as the road was terrible, so you could hit all kinds of bumps, cracks, etc and evaluate ride quality.
The city decided the road needed repaired, so they ground it down to lay blacktop over it.
I come flying along at 50 or so, set up to straddle the manhole cover (normally I hit it with the driver tire, but I was afraid I'd dent a rim this time around). I didn't want to risk the oil pan (did that once in a 71 Nova and a large rock), so I moved a bit to the side.
When I hit it the truck nearly stopped, I bounced off the steering wheel, then it leapt in the air like I hit that magic bush in Hazard County.
I should have taken pictures, but I didn't. It bent the lower shock mounts nearly to the rear bar and broke the shock, but fortunately it didn't hurt the frame.

[416velle]

Good to know, ok thank you.

Ground clearance will now be something I look at surgically

[matthimself456]

The 2" tall stud top makes the shock itself 0.75" shorter overall. However, you still retain the same stroke.
You'll likely not be able to use the shorter stud top as the upper spring cap will hit the OE frame. You could cut more away to provide clearance and use the 2" stud top, just make sure you weld the OE shock mount and anything else on the frame that looks like it was welded on a Friday after the guys stopped by the bar after work on Thursday evening.

Regarding the manhole cover story. . .I was developing a new lower control arm for the C10's and trying different lower mount ideas.
We had a "test loop" that ran outside town a couple of miles. It was great as the road was terrible, so you could hit all kinds of bumps, cracks, etc and evaluate ride quality.
The city decided the road needed repaired, so they ground it down to lay blacktop over it.
I come flying along at 50 or so, set up to straddle the manhole cover (normally I hit it with the driver tire, but I was afraid I'd dent a rim this time around). I didn't want to risk the oil pan (did that once in a 71 Nova and a large rock), so I moved a bit to the side.
When I hit it the truck nearly stopped, I bounced off the steering wheel, then it leapt in the air like I hit that magic bush in Hazard County.
I should have taken pictures, but I didn't. It bent the lower shock mounts nearly to the rear bar and broke the shock, but fortunately it didn't hurt the frame.

Driving my wagon one time I failed to notice a spot where a trench had been cut across the road and filled back in with one layer of asphalt but the final layer wasn't down yet. When the front wheels hit the dip and the suspension compressed the engine crossmember hit the rising cut edge of the asphalt on the far side of the trench. Probably only about 35mph max but felt like I had just dropped anchor. Luckily it wasn't something hard like a manhole cover but the little assembly line tow hook and a some of the holes in the front/bottom of the crossmember are still packed with asphalt.

[matthimself456]

Good to know, ok thank you.

Ground clearance will now be something I look at surgically

The other thing to keep in mind is what happens if a tire blows out. Having a dropped shock mount on a front lower control arm dig into the pavement before the rim touches the ground could be dangerous situation and really tear up your car.

[416velle]

206592

New lower control arms in, i really like the design of the UMIs. The drop mounts that came with the kit are perfect for these coilovers. Perfectly level front-rear, and at ride height im right in the meat of the shock travel. Now to connect sway bar, correct tierod angles, tape measure alignment and tighten all the bolts. Rear sway bar mounts come tomorrow and I need to figure out a chassis mount for it.

[raustinss]

screw everything else ...lets discuss the snorkel set up lmao

[416velle]

screw everything else ...lets discuss the snorkel set up lmao

Clearly its rated for 4ft of underwater operation :twothumbs

[Joris69velle]

Nice work. Would like to see an engine bay pic tho

[416velle]

206626

Once i get the fuel cell back in ill post an idle video

[416velle]

Rear suspension is done all the way! Got sway bar in, parking brake done and brakelines bent/system bled. Waiting on caliper brackets to button it up all the way. Weather was pretty solid here so i ran my motor thru a couple heat cycles.
Rhodes Racecars 8pt rollbar is in the mail, as well as a aluminum Yukon 9” center section. Really hoping i dont have to channel the trans tunnel for adequate driveshaft clearance because somebody is sick of the endless fab work the past year.
I will be weighing the rollbar before installation out of curiosity. I really wanted chromoly for the thinner wall tube but MIG welding a chromoly cage isnt exactly smiled upon. DOM .120 wall 1-3/4 was my pick.
From jacking the car up and down and on jackstands at the front of the rocker panel, im not happy with the frame flex that tightens/widens up my door-fender gaps, so i will be buying some 1/8x6 flat stock and reinforcing the frame from the rocker-fender gap to probably just below the brake master cylinder. I have some nifty ideas in mind to identify exactly where the bend is occurring. Somewhat disappointed my frame reinforcement kit didnt remedy that but it is what it is. Its simple enough to do.
i thought about doing some strut bars to the firewall, but i dont really like the idea of the firewall sheetmetal taking the brunt of that movement.

[chevelletiger]

Looks good!.
With your fab skills I'd make the front upper extended coil over mounts,I bought the SpeedTech chicane brakets,but I don't think it's worth the 200 bucks if you have fab skills.
I think I have some dimensions if you need then that I can mail out to you if you go that route.
BTW I used a 4.1 stroke shock with a 1.7 taller upper eyelet . I have it post here somewhere.

[416velle]

Interesting, i will keep that in mind. I have a 3.6” shock but if i want the thing any lower than it is right now, something is going to have to change.

[Threepointtwo]

I love this build. This is going great!

[jaybee]

Great car, it's built solid and should look great when you get it on the ground.

[416velle]

207320

Sometimes you get an idea that a task at hand is going to be difficult and you procrastinate in starting it, but when you finally get it done it ends up being really easy. Well. Let me tell you. I thought a roll bar was going to be hard, and by golly it was exactly as difficult as i anticipated. Rhodes racecars 6 point fit really well but Im glad its over. Anywho…Main hoop follows the same lean angle as the quarter window pillar seam so it actually kind of hides a bit, and the downbars go right to the coilover mounts.
As of right now im still waiting on my darn diff and theres no more big stuff at all before, only small crap like carpet/notching armrests for the doorbars/diff breather can/secure the intake tube/speedo wiring/buy a laptop that doesnt shut off every 2 seconds to tune on er a little.

[416velle]

207344207343
5 point harnesses installed. I didnt want to remove some of the comfort of a reclining/sliding seat so i made a anti-sub belt provision in my current procar seats. Now i can add upholstery to my resumé.

[jetmech442]

There is so much goodness going on in this thread! You are spot on with the anti-squat and roll centers, and you communicate it quite well. I'm running a custom 3 link and watts link and I absolutely love it. I see you've got a real good amount of adjustment on the upper link(and lowers too you mentioned). I started out at ~100% Anitsquat and had Severe rear brake hop going into turn 1(Blackhawk Farms). I ended up lowering it to 30% at Autobahn Country Club and the brake hop went away. I might be able to run in the 50-70%, but I'll probly leave it for now until I start finding the limits of the car(Oh yeah I'm a pass-by champ).

I noticed at ABCC the car didn't rotate as much as I would have liked, and plan to move the watts bolt up 1 setting at a time until it starts to rotate how I need. Looks like you'll have that same capability with the PHB you setup. Honestly man, your car is going to crush road courses. Can't wait to see video of it shredding those 315s. Keep up the posts, definitely subb'd for this one.

[416velle]

207536
Shock fiasco is completely settled!
I can now sleep well at night knowing my shock measurements are absolutel MINT. Bit the bullet after some thinking and decided to toss in some 2” stud tops. Now instead of an inch off from 50% shock travel, its about 1/4” low. It needs to come up a little so i can get the jack under it easier, so im callin it good there.
This effectively makes up for my lack of 2” drop spindle the shock is designed to work with.
UMI lower control arms for coilover are a GODSEND, got the shocks completely out of the car in 10 minutes. Instructions for the studs that came with the holding tool were solid so that job went smoothly. No curse words were said “at” the car today, they were only said from surprise, excitement and awe once i got the thing back on the ground. Looks SO good.

[416velle]

Finally got differential installed and axles measured/ordered.....Onto driveshaft, and more f***ery encountered!!!!

Someone riddle me this...
Swapping from a 4L80e and 12 bolt to a T56 and Ford 9inch requires a LONGER DRIVESHAFT?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?! 51-1/2 vs 52-3/8
Mind is truly blown, I'm now questioning everything in life.

Back to the drawing board....again. I'll be researching who has a long 1350 yoke for Ford 9in, I may be screwed if nobody has one. Though I suppose that would force me to buy a lightweight driveshaft.

[Gil]

awesome you nailed the stance & wheels choice on this last picture ! very nice !

[416velle]

awesome you nailed the stance & wheels choice on this last picture ! very nice !

Thank you! Likewise I'm liking what you've done to your 'Bird

[416velle]

Project Update:
--Did some research and pondering; I found that Sonnax makes a longer T56 tranny yoke; after measuring, i found it to be a little under 1-1/2" longer than the other yoke I had, so this kinda had me buying it under the guise of wishful thinking, as I had no confidence it would actually work. Bought some new u-joints as well because safety (ish). Installed it all and it is literally PERFECT. I have right under an inch of forward movement before it bottoms, acres of spline engagement (lack of spline engagement caused a vibration on my prior 4L80 setup so I checked this)

--Now that i know driveshaft is right, I can move onto cutting out and raising the driveshaft tunnel because some goofball (0_o) lowered the car enough that theres almost no room for it to move during bump.
--Trranny tunnel is in the mail, axles are in the mail, lightweight bumpers/brackets/hood/decklid as well, and a couple small things here and there like battery tray, reverse lockout for the T56, etc.
--I finally also got a laptop, so I've been running the engine a bunch and remembering how to operate the holley software, consequently figuring stuff out and learning stuff that I would've died to have known a few years ago with the old 6.0.
If I can figure out how to use the interwebs I'll eventually post a vid here of some idling and revvs.
TL;DR
I might have a chevelle that can drive out of the garage in the next week or 2, with which I can then break something on the test drive that'll put it back on jackstands for another 2 years. Maybe I'll redesign the rear suspension a 3rd time :DD

[416velle]

FIRST DRIVE!!!!

2 and a half years later, moved this car under its own power! Couple milestones for me; nicest engine ive ever built, first stick car, first suspension and chassis "engineering" project, first drive on a new combination where I didn't have to focus on some glaring issue with something, but what blows my mind the most is the fact it DOESN"T LEAK A DROP OF ANYTHING. I don't have a very good track record on building stuff that doesn't leak. VERY happy.
I won't go full throttle til I drive it 500 ish miles but the 416 sounds SO good. Absolute nirvana through my short exhaust.

14/13" wilwoods are FANTASTIC and want to put me through the windshield. The clutch is very smooth, i need to work on takeoff. The suspension felt fantastic for not being adjusted quite yet, no death noises at all (knocking visciously on wood).
I do have a couple of things I want to sort out before I go for a real drive. Namely, alignment, exhaust is 3" off the ground (maybe oval tube redo, or jack under it and give it some pumps lol), definitely need to reverify my pinion angle, nut and bolt check again, steering stops (tire rubs control arm at full lock), completely secure my rear firewall and trunk reveal panels, diff and fuel cell breathers are in the works, calibrate speedo, dial-in bump stop spacers 100%, etc etc etc.

[416velle]

208831208830208829

[416velle]

Couple things I did before the drive:
Hood latches from Aerocatch. NGL I was turned off by the plastic construction initially, but once I got them they're very stout and made well. Was a challenge to install the flush ones but they look good. Deck lid and bumpers are soon to come :D
Driveshaft tunnel. This was annoying but as is everything else. Driveshaft was 1/2" from the floor at ride height with factory floors, it had to be raised. Bought a universal one from Chassisworks, now I can lower the car WAY down before it hits the tunnel.
Reverse lockout was boring not deserving of pictures but cool, parking brake works, I now have to build a console to cover up the various shifter hole differences between the prior auto and this T56/ebrake.

[416velle]

2ND DRIVE

Ironed out a couple small things, 5pt harness complete/rollcage floor passthroughs sealed/rear firewall secured/pinion angle and driveline angles corrected/nut and bolt checks, and took it out again to calibrate the speedo.

I don't have a very large sample size of many muscle cars other than my prior setups/prior 2 cars I've owned and some cars for work a few years ago (bunch of A-bodies, couple first gen camaros), but this is the nicest feeling muscle car I've driven. The stick is life changing.
It feels oddly modern with VERY responsive steering (I think due to the corrected ackerman), brakes will take a bit to get used to because theyre manual but I like them, driveline is extremely smooth, suspension feels pretty good for the shocks and sway bars having zero adjustment, I get what people mean when they say the T56 feels "notchy" but its better than a muncie or any of the TKOs (IMO), and gets 7mpg. Can't really ask for more from a completely new setup.

[raustinss]

Congrats , that's awesome ... im sure a serious sense of accomplishment

[416velle]

UPDATE!!
Been driving the thing a whole lot. I don't recommend a 2 disc non-sprung hub clutch behind 650hp as your first stick car but I'm getting the hang of it. I'm a believer in the manual now. LOVE the T56, fantastic transmission.
Had a minor engine incident where my oil pressure sensor seal blew out and took 2 quarts of oil with it. Trailered the car home and pulled the transmission because I thought it was the rear main or rear cover, thank god it wasn't. I got to experience bench-pressing a full-of-fluid T56 back into the thing by myself, that was definitely an experience. Looked in the remaining oil with a hawkeye, changed oil multiple times, pulled apart filters, came to the conclusion my motor was not hurt. Dodged a bullet, that could've been expensive.


Aside from that and after re-starting my shakedown....
I'm not sure if its the 3 link I built, the ridetech coilovers, the frame reinforcements, various geometry improvements everywhere, or what; its hard to describe it but it feels SO much better than I remember it used to with stock frame stock-style upgraded stuff/coilsprings. I don't know where the sterotype came from in regards to harsh ride quality with solid suspension parts but theres not a single soft bushing in all of my suspension/bodymounts aside from rear sway bar axle mounts; this is the smoothest muscle car I've ever driven. It rides smoother than my dads stock 67 camaro with fully rubber bushings everywhere. As for the brakes, once the wilwoods get warmed up, I basically need to think about starting to adjust the shocks because it stops HARD.
The most gratifying thing about this entire project is that I got it scaled.......3390lbs. So basically I can presumably be competitive in autocross! Definitely seeing why Chevelles aren't super common, it takes a LOT of stuff to get it down to this weight, but I digress. Very excited now. Think i will try to attend a track night at my local racetrack in October, and try to dial it in the suspension little bit.

[SPLATT71MC]

Fabri-cobbling, I love that term.

[416velle]

Fabri-cobbling, I love that term.

I feel its very fitting to the method of action guys take in the fab department without any computerized tools; with a heavy emphasis on constantly forgetting to or choosing not to use a measuring tape. I could very well just be speaking for myself

[SPLATT71MC]

I feel its very fitting to the method of action guys take in the fab department without any computerized tools; with a heavy emphasis on constantly forgetting to or choosing not to use a measuring tape. I could very well just be speaking for myself

I'm the same way most of the time but I also have a touch of OCD when it comes to some things.

[416velle]

209169209170

About 3 weeks in of driving the thing as much as possible, no complaints of anything mechanically. Everything is functioning well, nothing broken, and im slowly but surely figuring out this clutch.

So I’m now to the point of finding some autocross events near me to get the suspension dialed in. I’m not super worried about shocks (follow ridetech’s instructions), whats going to be interesting is figuring out my rear roll center height partnered with determining if the rear sway bar is stiff enough to do its job. I think i will be talking to as many CAM-T people as i can and seeing how others have done similarly with their setups. Very excited to get back on the track, its been too long

[jaybee]

Nice, looks like huge fun. Glad you're enjoying it and it's proving reliable.

[416velle]

UPDATE
FIRST AUTOCROSS EVENT IN THE BOOKS
I took a little bit of time to set up my Ridetech shocks at the base settings and experiment with them a little, to find out what each knob does, how different it makes the car feel. Well, let me tell you, from all settings full loose to Ridetech's recommended base settings, it feels like a completely different car. I've also taken a lot of time to think about the dynamics of suspension in the process from an engineering standpoint (mainly in regards to the rear because I'm on my own with diagnosis lol), which helps me understand why the car acts some ways it does, determine whether its a good or bad action, and determine whether it needs to be looked over, and how it would act with other changes.

As for how the event went, I took home the fastest time of the CAM-C class by over a second! I knew the car was bad but I didn't think it was this bad. I also knew I have the foundation for decent driving but was not expecting good results immediately after a 2.5yr hiatus.

In some more detail, I have to start off by saying MY 3 LINK WORKS, NOTHING BROKE, THE ENGINE STILL RUNS AND IT GOT ME HOME. Cannot complain whatsoever.
It took a few more laps than I would've wanted to brush off the cobwebs and figure the car out, BUT.....I've determined all said and done it has ALL the power, the brakes are PHENOMENAL, and it has SOO much grip. On a different note, everyone loved the thing I think because it was the crappiest looking car there.

2 things I kept in mind were "smooth is fast", especially once I was finding a groove and learning the car. I have to make VERY deliberate throttle adjustments because throttle input with a manual trans is a lot different than an automatic. And the other thing was "load the tire before you work the tire" (motorcycle guys will know). I have 315 tires all around, the thought was I want to use ALL of that tire and basically let the car do the work. That tire does give me a cushion to make some steering mistakes, but once I eased up on those mistakes it was ALL grip. The only instance I ever lost grip was mashing the throttle too hard out of a corner or a very bad takeoff. Not once did I encounter understeer, not once did I encounter oversteer that wasn't initiated by throttle, not once did I lock up the brakes coming in too hot in a corner. With that in mind, I probably could've gained some time pushing it harder, but I'll save that for the next event.

Couple things I need to work on;
-Driver skill, duh.
-Engineering, further analysis of movement dynamics of this specific setup.
-DATA; tire pressures, didn't do that at all. Tire temperatures, yea not that either.
As far as the car goes;
-Weight reduction still, I'm on the bleeding edge of CAM-T weight and would ideally want to be competitive there if I can drop some weight. it just so happened CAM-C was not faster than CAM-T today, the fastest T car would've had me by 4 seconds.
-rear tire rub (thicker spacer on the back to center the wheel in the tub) and if it still rubs then I may need to look into a stiffer rear sway bar to minimize roll a little and eliminate the rub. I could also lower the rear roll center with a thicker bar
-off-the-cuff shock adjustments based on track conditions and being confident in my assessment. Car was bouncy at the back end of the track, definitely should've taken out some low speed compression.
-some new rod ends on my sway bars, I need teflon bushed ends everywhere that don't have monkey motion the current ones have.
-after analyzing my front tire wear pattern, I've determined I can definitely stand to remove at least .5-1 degree of camber. After thinking about it, the high speed steering dynamics and feeling definitely points to this and I think a significant portion of my "felt" body roll is a result of the camber. It has somewhere between 2 and 2.5 degrees of camber right now. The outside of the tire is much cooler than the inside, also not as chewed up from the pavement as the inside.

Been a while coming to this. Definitely reignited my love for the sport. New funnest moment of my life bar none.

[416velle]

https://www.facebook.com/100072431223500/videos/316785540978515/?notif_id=1697424556180206&notif_t=video_processed&ref=notif


Here was my fastest lap. After watching it a few dozen times I've concluded some glaring improvements could've been the takeoff and a more thought-out line at the U-turn halftrack, those combined likely could've given me somewhere between 2-3 seconds.

[416velle]

210054210055210056

Couple of pictures from my autocross day. Couple things i analyzed from this.
-Front inside tire is not off the ground; i can presumably push the car a little harder if i need to.
-Front outside tire is still cambered quite a bit in corners, along with tire wear this tells me i can most certainly add a degree or so of positive camber back into it.
-Body roll is a little much, this led me to inspect suspension parts and i found a couple sway bar rod ends were VERY loose, mostly in the rear. So i replaced those and the car feels a LOT more level in corners. Now that the sway bars are tight, i can begin my shock adjustment again, change roll center height, etc without monkey motion.

[chevelletiger]

Could you shoot me some pictures of your engine mounts and placement?
I bought speed engineering ones and headers and want an idea were to start want engine as far back as possible.
Thank you.

[416velle]

Could you shoot me some pictures of your engine mounts and placement?
I bought speed engineering ones and headers and want an idea were to start want engine as far back as possible.
Thank you.

210152
210153
210154

Currently running the nothing-special holley clamshell-style mounts at the stock bellhousing flange location, 0" setback, and 1 degree of trans output-shaft angle, so its basically as forward as can be at the stock location. It has a LOT of firewall clearance making maintenance really easy because thats where my EFI wiring passes thru the firewall. Headers are CXRacing (fit very well, a LOT of ground clearance, but only 1-3/4 tube), oil pan is holley.

I don't know exactly what the weight distribution of my car is front and rear (haven't gotten around to purchasing corner scales yet) but it weighs 3320 right now with half tank of gas, without driver.

FWIW I am running a ABCPerformance smooth firewall, so maybe I don't have "a lot" of room as a result of that....
But two reasons ANY setback would personally piss me off is;

1-bellhousing bolt access. Those would be really annoying to access with the engine further back. And if theres less room to the firewall then you can't drop the trans crossmember and tilt the engine back NEARLY as much to buzz them out from the bottom side of the car, accessing from down the transmission tunnel
2-servicing anything behind the engine; wiring if thats where you have a bulkhead passthru, oil pressure sensor, knock sensor, GROUND BOLTS, and engine lift locations if you don't have a valley-cover-style lift plate (i don't).

Your rig may be different but massaging the firewall will probably be needed just to make working on it not a PITA.....maybe. But the question is, if you're going to massage it backward, why stop at just 1 inch setback? :D

[416velle]

PREP FOR ANOTHER AUTOCROSS MEET:

After some run analysis and mechanicals inspection, I did a couple things I think will help balance the car out a little.

--I found bent sway bar end links in the front, and some REALLY loose rod end links in the rear. Replaced the fronts with some high-misalignment rod ends, and replaced the rears with some teflon-bushed rod ends along with one hole stiffer on the bar in the front. Theres no longer clunks and monkey motion in the rear suspension, and the car feels a lot more predictable which is very good.
--From analyzing tire wear and heat patterns from the previous event, I determined I was running way too much negative camber for the amount of suspension travel and body roll the car has. I busted out a straight edge and my phone, and found -3 DEGREES OF CAMBER. WAY too much. Adjusted the control arms and I now have it at -1.7Degrees. Following some spirited driving around roundabouts, the road actually contacts the entire contact patch of the tire. On the racing surface I'll be driving on, the camber change is going to be HUGE in braking and low speed cornering. Trying to get those 315's to come to life. Which is insane to say because they were fantastic last month and I wasn't using all they have to offer.
--While doing camber adjustment, I found witness marks of my tie rods contacting the sway bar, no good. I found a company Wehrs Machine that does mainly dirt racing stuff, they have a chevelle tie rod with a bend in it that's in the perfect location to give me now a full inch of sway bar clearance at all times lock-lock. Adjusted toe-out to roughly 1/8, maybe a little more (tape measure and pencil lines on the cement alignment).
--Rear tires were rubbing the frame in high-G low speed cornering, this was a result of the tires not being perfectly centered in the tub but mainly the loose rear sway bar end links that are now in the garbage. I put a slightly thicker hubcentric spacer in the rear (sourced from the front) and put a slightly thicker one in the front as well. Little bit more steering angle too. This is the screwery of running the same wheel/tire front and rear where they need different offsets, BUT I get to rotate tires which is big.
All of this stuff has a substantial effect on how the shock valving affects handling luckily this is giving me a bit of practice on making on-the-fly adjustments on the RideTechs.

[416velle]

That's a wrap for 2023 autocross for me most likely. Today was a little....difficult....to say the least.

Most importantly: the engine is still doing engine things, suspension is still suspending, and the transmission is still transmitting. Nothing broken! Got there and home fine!

With that out of the way, I came out with the #2 spot in CAM-C today, 1.07 seconds slower than a 2019 Roush Mustang with a VERY good driver behind the wheel, and 4 seconds off the fastest time of the day.

Even though I did fairly decent, I know for a fact theres at least a second or 2 more in the car because it was an absolute handful! The track layout definitely taxed the car's side-side weight transfer significantly with a lack of emphasis on heavy braking and straightaways; yaknow, the 2 things my car can be good at lol
The wide sweeping turns told me I need to stiffen up the front sway bar as much as possible and probably start to look for a stiffer rear bar as well. Body roll made the car very unpredictable and inconsistent if i was not meticulous with my lines, and its hard to be meticulous with my lines in a car I've driven 3 months at its 2nd track event ever basically. Also the sun was in my eyes, there was a headwind, and the corealis effect taxed the passenger side of my suspension unnecessarily but I digress.

Learning stuff is fun but factor in the "Law of Suck" for it to be fun and frustrating, that was today! Can't complain though.

-3 link survived without casualties
-Of 5 runs I had 2 clean runs, 2 spinouts and 2 DNF's. Pain and suffering. I did get out and make sure the cones were OK, they still had pulses. I've quickly developed a reputation of beating the absolute CRAP out of my car, which I don't mind. I do kind of mind the nickname "helicopter" though :D
-Driver skill issues
-I once again did not check a single tire pressure, I checked the oil frequently though, yup its present and oily
-Body roll was unnecessary, unpredictable, inconsistent, and made using both the 315 tire and all 680 ponies difficult without precise deliberation
-I hope its not like this very often but I definitely would've benefited from at least 100 less horsepower
-My alignment changes were definitely useful, tires felt very consistent in heat and wear inside-outside in the front
-Left-foot braking would've been extremely useful on this layout and I would've benefited from that
-Driver skill issues
-I can't definitively say I had "issues" with grip today because I don't know any other tire than the Falken 615K+, but multiple people said I could shave 1-2 seconds alone from going to the RT660, those will be on the list for sure once my current rubbahs are worn.

In the next few days I'll be making new front sway bar end links so i can stiffen that up, and I'll be hitting up Tony from ABCPerformance to inquire about a different sway bar.
After those 2, the "winter to-do list" will insue!

[NCSU68]

Thank you for posting. I really enjoy your updates. You have a great "real world" project that inspires because it was done with cost in mind. Please keep the updates coming and I can't wait to read about your next track event. 2024 is coming soon!

[Pedigry]

Great thread. I am sure you posted it but what tires are you running. I recently switch to Toyo r888r's and man, what a difference. After these wear out, what will you try next?

[416velle]

Great thread. I am sure you posted it but what tires are you running. I recently switch to Toyo r888r's and man, what a difference. After these wear out, what will you try next?


I currently have some Falken RT615K+'s. I bought them basically because price, they're a basic-but-good 315/30 200tw tire, definitely knew it going in that there are better options.

The next set will most likely be some RT660s

If I could afford a 2nd set of wheels then I'd try a 100 or lower treadwear tire like the R888R to really see what the car can do, but for SCCA in CAM classes you're limited to 200 treadwear. Also I don't have a towing rig yet so I have to drive the car to whatever events I choose to go to.

[416velle]

WINTER TO-DO LIST

Its about that time counting down the days til the first snow; as soon as theres salt on the ground, the car is forcefully hibernated. til the first event next year.

The list all things considered is pretty small. The stuff is just mainly annoying and mildly time consuming. Starting them will be more difficult than finishing em.

-water pump element-Edelbrock water pump started leaking out the weep hole-it owes me nothing, this thing has been BEAT on, road tripped to Vegas from San Diego 3x, couple autocross events, road course, 2 Kansas winters. Simple.
-Trans output shaft leak-leaks at the seal, its not a factory-type seal with the dust boot. I like factory stuff.
-re-mount clutch master better-er--Currently have it mounted to my steering column retention plate, I'll probably be building one half of it from scratch and mounting the master to it with studs(not thru bolt, because maintenance and 1 set of hands), as well as moving it over a little so the master is in line with the pedal, I'll also be looking at the mount angles too to make sure theres no possibility of prematurely wearing the master out.
-Probably welding some reinforcements to the clutch pedal so stuff doesn't bend, along with making a new rod with LH and RH rod ends because ease of adjustment
-Rear cover leak--I always forget to put a little silicon on the bottom of the rear cover when building these motors, and I didn't do that this time; I'll be replacing the rear main/resealing the rear cover completely.
-At the same time I do that I'll put a remote clutch bleeder in the thing. If I'm gangster, I'll route the hose through the floor so I don't even have to leave the driver seat to bleed it.
-Minimize some frame reinforcements--My roll bar overlaps with some of the bars from my HPI frame reinforcement kit, and since the roll bar does more for me than the brace kit, theres about 30lbs of unnecessary tube under the car that I can cut out to save some more weight. From this alone I bet I can drop into the 3200#s.

NOW...for the disgustingly expensive stuff

-Learning to tig weld. If you look at your tig welder you spend $300 on consumables, its depressing!
As for the car stuff lol
-Driveshaft--yea I encounter a bit of a vibration at 110-120 in mexico of course, that's because I have a long trans yoke to make up for an inch shorter driveshaft. So an aluminum one will probably be in order because weight--$600 probably
-EXHAUST--I've gone through this in my head 5000 times, Stainlessheaders.com sells Aluminum Oval tube exhaust, and I'll be building a new exhaust for the car with actual mufflers. All said and done will probably weigh as much as the current exhaust, but I'd do anything to get the thing quieter, as well as add 1-2" of ground clearance, because if I look at the road wrong the car scrapes over bumps and going into driveways. $4000 all said and done. Disgusting
-AERO--Unfortunately i'm becoming "that guy". A front splitter will look fine on this car, but there is no sort of aero you can ever do to a 68-72 chevelle at the rear that looks good, it ALWAYS looks bad. A 10" spoiler will be on the list, as well as a diffuser probably. I'll definitely be making mounts that bolt it to the frame from under the car so I don't have to drill holes or anything to mount it to the body. Because as soon as I finish an event, that crap comes off the car. No idea on cost, probably something around $500.
Not excited to do the 3 listed above.

[Pedigry]

I currently have some Falken RT615K+'s. I bought them basically because price, they're a basic-but-good 315/30 200tw tire, definitely knew it going in that there are better options.

The next set will most likely be some RT660s

If I could afford a 2nd set of wheels then I'd try a 100 or lower treadwear tire like the R888R to really see what the car can do, but for SCCA in CAM classes you're limited to 200 treadwear. Also I don't have a towing rig yet so I have to drive the car to whatever events I choose to go to.


I didn't realize they required a 200 tread tire. I just put a set of the R888R's on the back of my car and I am shocked at how well they stick. They are a phenominal tire. I only have 575 hp at the crank so it's not crazy power but they hook really well.

Congrats on getting it to the track. Don't get it right, just get it running, fix stuff as you go. Love the updates.

[Rod]

find out if you have the latest valving on the triples from ridetech, sticker tires, and more spring in the car

[416velle]

find out if you have the latest valving on the triples from ridetech, sticker tires, and more spring in the car
Stickier tire is definitely happening, i have probably 1 or 2 events left on my 615K+’s.

More spring is definitely on the “eventual” list, i have 750’s in the front and either 175’s or 200s in the rear, i could probably bump up to 850 or 900 in the front and 225 or 250 in the rear.

in regards to the shock valving, curious what the functional differences is if you know?

[chevelletiger]

Look up 1speedway engineering for the different sway bars for your splined bar,much cheaper to get them thru them or Kartec.
Oh question how long is your upper 3 link bar,and from the ground we're is the center line of both mounting points at?
I'm going to axe the 2nd gen camaro speedtech torque arm I bought and make a 3 link like yours,
But I want to make a mount that goes to the factory 12 bolt upper ears to attach a link to.
Thanks
Phil

[416velle]

Look up 1speedway engineering for the different sway bars for your splined bar,much cheaper to get them thru them or Kartec.
Oh question how long is your upper 3 link bar,and from the ground we're is the center line of both mounting points at?
I'm going to axe the 2nd gen camaro speedtech torque arm I bought and make a 3 link like yours,
But I want to make a mount that goes to the factory 12 bolt upper ears to attach a link to.
Thanks
Phil

I will keep those companies in mind for sure. I decided to put a LOT more spring in the car front and rear before opening the sway bar can of worms. So I'm going to a 950lb front and a 550lb rear.....I'm almost debating on keeping putting stiffer springs in it til i can back off sway bar stiffness, but I'll have to run another autoX event before I made that decision.

Couple things in regards to 3 link fab stuff:

--I personally would HIGHLY recommend a Ford 9" if you're doing to do a 3 link because the entire axle housing is able to be welded and that alone just opens up the possibilities for all sorts of different mount positions, etc. Because cast iron isn't weldable, mainly though I personally didn't like the idea of bolts holding the control arm mounts in place because they allow some movement. But if you can't do a 9" I get it, FWIW I did initially intended on using the factory 12 bolt ears for a 3rd link bracket back before I scrapped my watts link idea (ended up using it for welding practice after buying the 9 inch).

--I also personally recommend cutting out the factory stamped control arm crossmember and making one out of a universal ladder-bar crossmember, but this obviously depends on your welding capability and confidence. Having the frame out from the car helps but isn't required.

--If you're going to do a 3rd link using the factory ears, I would utilize the torque arm axle mount from the speedtech kit you have (specifically the ring that bolts on the cover flange) and weld reinforcements/triangulation off of that so that the strength will be idiot proof basically

--My rig is a symmetrical 3 link so the 3rd link is centered on the axle side to side, and with the axle at 0 degrees pinion angle the link mount is right on the vertical centerline as well.
I don't recall the exact length but I designed the 3rd link length to be pretty close to as similar length as the side-view length of the stock suspension as I could, 1 or so inches longer because the front mount is pushed toward the floor as forward as possible. I wasn't entirely concerned with the geometry of my setup here because its decently close to factory, I just added a whole lot of vertical adjustment holes on the frame side crossmember to adjust the squat/antisquat characteristics.

[chevelletiger]

I will keep those companies in mind for sure. I decided to put a LOT more spring in the car front and rear before opening the sway bar can of worms. So I'm going to a 950lb front and a 550lb rear.....I'm almost debating on keeping putting stiffer springs in it til i can back off sway bar stiffness, but I'll have to run another autoX event before I made that decision.

Couple things in regards to 3 link fab stuff:

--I personally would HIGHLY recommend a Ford 9" if you're doing to do a 3 link because the entire axle housing is able to be welded and that alone just opens up the possibilities for all sorts of different mount positions, etc. Because cast iron isn't weldable, mainly though I personally didn't like the idea of bolts holding the control arm mounts in place because they allow some movement. But if you can't do a 9" I get it, FWIW I did initially intended on using the factory 12 bolt ears for a 3rd link bracket back before I scrapped my watts link idea (ended up using it for welding practice after buying the 9 inch).

--I also personally recommend cutting out the factory stamped control arm crossmember and making one out of a universal ladder-bar crossmember, but this obviously depends on your welding capability and confidence. Having the frame out from the car helps but isn't required.

--If you're going to do a 3rd link using the factory ears, I would utilize the torque arm axle mount from the speedtech kit you have (specifically the ring that bolts on the cover flange) and weld reinforcements/triangulation off of that so that the strength will be idiot proof basically

--My rig is a symmetrical 3 link so the 3rd link is centered on the axle side to side, and with the axle at 0 degrees pinion angle the link mount is right on the vertical centerline as well.
I don't recall the exact length but I designed the 3rd link length to be pretty close to as similar length as the side-view length of the stock suspension as I could, 1 or so inches longer because the front mount is pushed toward the floor as forward as possible. I wasn't entirely concerned with the geometry of my setup here because its decently close to factory, I just added a whole lot of vertical adjustment holes on the frame side crossmember to adjust the squat/antisquat characteristics.
The SpeedTech kit I have is for a Ford 9,the thing is I spent so much on the 12bolt with the ring gear set,and tru trac,and I set it up myself I really don't want to waste it.

The upper ear bracket I'm making is 1/4 and press brake formed the same angle as the ears,and will have the holes drilled and reamed for shoulder bolts,that go thru 2 steel bushings that come into the cover side of the ears.
As for welding,I do it for a living,and have about 20yr of experience in conventional lathe and mill work,my old career lol.

Funny,but more me being crazy,I cut out the old upper trailing arm plate mounts and made some adjustable ie extra hole going up on the new mount brackets, per tony g and abc performance,I guess I can never be happy!
I'm just going to make mock up parts.first for this 3 link,but try out what I have now.

The issue I had with the SpeedTech torque arm was even though I made a beefy front mount for it it would still flex if I pushed on it laying on the ground,and how dang heavy it all is,the 3 link seems to weigh less.
Thanks for answering, I post pictures of whatvi come up with.

[chevelletiger]

Picture of the bracket.
I'll have to machine the stepped parts that go into the upper ears too.
I'm not going to cut the crossmember just yet till I get the LS swap done and I'll see how it handles with the abc crossmember mod first.

I get bored so I fabled this up in my spare time,I'll probably make the panhard bar mout too while I'm at it!
The bushingbis from a bmw rear trailing arm,but needed the hole drilled out to .500 was .472. It's 2.250 wide need to machine housings for those also.

Let me know what you think,or if it's a waste,
The way I'm looking at it the aftermarket torque arms,and 3 links Rely on little quarter inch thick welded tabs to the 9 inch housing.

Which isn't that thick either so hey we'll see

[416velle]

Picture of the bracket.
I'll have to machine the stepped parts that go into the upper ears too.
I'm not going to cut the crossmember just yet till I get the LS swap done and I'll see how it handles with the abc crossmember mod first.

I get bored so I fabled this up in my spare time,I'll probably make the panhard bar mout too while I'm at it!
The bushingbis from a bmw rear trailing arm,but needed the hole drilled out to .500 was .472. It's 2.250 wide need to machine housings for those also.

Let me know what you think,or if it's a waste,
The way I'm looking at it the aftermarket torque arms,and 3 links Rely on little quarter inch thick welded tabs to the 9 inch housing.

Which isn't that thick either so hey we'll see

That definitely looks like a pretty beefy setup that won't bend.

The only think I would advise would be to be absolutely sure the bracket wouldn't rotate on the axis of the control arm eye holes under power; I would add some ears off the rear-most part of the bracket and tie them into the top 2 holes of the diff cover. This will make it a little annoying to pop the cover off and service the thing, but theres really no other way to do it without welding to the cast iron.
I could be completely wrong though, some beefy bolts and 90ft/lbs might be enough to keep it there. I'm no engineer, i dropped out of mechanical engineering in college

[416velle]

210785
210786

Found my bracket I made before going Ford 9". Very crude, not the greatest looking, its apparent why I was very happy to get rid of it (though it would've functioned just fine), but this is somewhat what I meant by saying you should have something tie into the diff cover.

Another thing I notice, not sure if that's a soft bushing on your bracket but I would NOT use polyurethane bushings for the 3rd link at all, it should be rod ends/roto joints. A soft bushing would introduce bind into the articulation equation much worse than the factory 4 link. And I say this because I can confirm from experience when the suspension wants to move through bind, it will wear the bushings until there is no bind anymore.
IMO there should be zero soft bushings on the rear suspension at all because "zero bind" is the boasting attribute that a 3 link does better than any other solid axle layout, but if ride quality is a concern then a poly-delrin combo arm SHOULD be used to maximize the benefits of your redesign.

The reason you don't want soft bushings for the 3rd link is because ALL the movement the 3rd link will see during body roll or axle articulation is a side-side motion. I'll try to explain myself as best I can here, bare with me lol

Think of a circle. The axle in this case is a circle. Theres a dot on the left edge, a dot on the right edge, and a dot on the top. Rotate the circle any direction (simulating axle articulation), and the dots on the left/right sides move vertically along the arc, whereas the dot on the top moves entirely horizontal on the arc. That horizontal movement

A polyurethane bushing allows free movement in the same axis as the securing bolt resists movement that's not on the same axis as the bolt, and articulation is NOT on the same axis as the bolts. This is why a rod end-style joint is needed, because it moves freely in all axis' of movement. Especially important with centered 3 link.

[TitanFox]

I really like your coil mounts. I cant decide between mounting on the side of my valve cover versus the firewall.

[416velle]

I really like your coil mounts. I cant decide between mounting on the side of my valve cover versus the firewall.

Thank you! Firewall all the way IMO, it always looks better. Just make sure to mount them straight, if they're not level itll ALWAYS be the first thing you see when you pop the hood lol

[chevelletiger]

That bushingis pretty much a ball joint it's used in bmw rear control arms,and has those rubber boots to keep dirt out my wifes 2020 camaro uses them in the rear toe links also.

detroit speed is using something similar in the mustang front lca.
On there new setup.
The b
ushings are just to hold the whole bracket up,I'll make those slugs out of billet steel.

[416velle]

Gotcha, good good, I'll be interested to follow your build along and see how it turns out!

[chevelletiger]

Gotcha, good good, I'll be interested to follow your build along and see how it turns out!

I appreciate your input, not a bunch of us that fab our own parts.
It will be some time till it's done,but I like making stuff like this in my spare time just like you.
I'm going to try to make the factory crossmember work with this 3 link bracket in case it's a flop and I can switch back to factory.
I'll think it over lol
BTW what state are you in?

[416velle]

I appreciate your input, not a bunch of us that fab our own parts.
It will be some time till it's done,but I like making stuff like this in my spare time just like you.
I'm going to try to make the factory crossmember work with this 3 link bracket in case it's a flop and I can switch back to factory.
I'll think it over lol
BTW what state are you in?

Derek Kiefer has a pretty good 3 link/watts link build in his 69, he used the factory crossmember. Offset 3 link but it its food for thought on ideas. Some pictures of it are post #42

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/138236-Derek-Kiefer-s-69-Malibu-build/page3? (https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/138236-Derek-Kiefer-s-69-Malibu-build/page3?)

I’m in Kansas, Salina Region is closest to me but I live almost perfectly splitting the difference between Lincoln NE, Wichita KS, Hutchinson KS, and Kansas City.

I used to live in San Diego California, thats where i blew my motor up at and basically what started the snowball rolling down the hill for completely redoing my car.

[Mtrhd329]

Been watching this for a bit. You should like the results from the 3 link. I made two different setups similar one last builds. One is an offset 3 link which is in the build thread here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/120139-79-C10-Autocross-build-quot-THE-REAPER-quot/page7

The other I built an under slung torque arm setup. Both rode and articulated very well. In each the key was the adjustable panhard bar. Being able to drop it way low to get the roll center where I wanted it was key. Frame side was a tube coming straight down and had a slider clamp for adjustment. The rear end side had a slider box similar to a leaf spring slider that the bolt could slide up and down to adjust height. Couple of tube ends and some tube makes the rest of it. Worked very well and is very tunable. I would suggest making the slider tube slightly above the scrub line. If you lose a wheel that becomes your low point.

210820

[416velle]

Been watching this for a bit. You should like the results from the 3 link. I made two different setups similar one last builds. One is an offset 3 link which is in the build thread here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/120139-79-C10-Autocross-build-quot-THE-REAPER-quot/page7

The other I built an under slung torque arm setup. Both rode and articulated very well. In each the key was the adjustable panhard bar. Being able to drop it way low to get the roll center where I wanted it was key. Frame side was a tube coming straight down and had a slider clamp for adjustment. The rear end side had a slider box similar to a leaf spring slider that the bolt could slide up and down to adjust height. Couple of tube ends and some tube makes the rest of it. Worked very well and is very tunable. I would suggest making the slider tube slightly above the scrub line. If you lose a wheel that becomes your low point.



Very freakin cool. Took a look at your build thread, its ALWAYS fascinating looking at how people accomplish a similar suspension layout, ESPECIALLY on a different platform.

On a different note, seeing the pictures of your events at Qualcomm gives me happy-sad feelings. It was ahead of my time and I never got to even do drags there before it they closed it, let alone demo-ed it (I'm 24) but EVERYONE i talked to in San Diego area who autocrossed had nothing but good things to say about that venue. Good times tailgating there as well at football games

[Mtrhd329]

Qualcomm was a great venue. The CAM guys were awesome also.

I will keep an eye on your build closely as I'm building a chevelle now also. I went with UMI suspension and a factory LS swap for now as I wrap up the frame off. A little farther down the road will be engine mods and then another 3 link build on this car also. Good luck sir.

[416velle]

Qualcomm was a great venue. The CAM guys were awesome also.

I will keep an eye on your build closely as I'm building a chevelle now also. I went with UMI suspension and a factory LS swap for now as I wrap up the frame off. A little farther down the road will be engine mods and then another 3 link build on this car also. Good luck sir.

Very cool, send your build thread for your chevelle if you have one started!
My only tip of advice for the frame is DEFINITELY box the c-channel portion under the rockers (preferrably with a roll bar if you can), flat-plate box from ABC Performance. The speedtech or HPI kits that add the tube down the center are unnecessary weight additions because they dont tie forward enough to prevent frontal frame flex, just under the firewall. I have video to corroborate this.

[Mtrhd329]

No build thread for the chevelle. I upgraded to a you tube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/@RecycledRacing

I added the speedtech frame brace kit to keep me from caging the car. I had front frame sag also but welding all of the factory seams and a couple triangles helped out a bit. I plan to run two tubes up front from the bottom of the crossmember to where the frame kicks out to the side rails later down the road. Frame is super solid now. A jack anywhere on one side will lift up the car almost level. I lucked out and started with a convertible frame so it was kinda boxed already.

[chevelletiger]

That definitely looks like a pretty beefy setup that won't bend.

The only think I would advise would be to be absolutely sure the bracket wouldn't rotate on the axis of the control arm eye holes under power; I would add some ears off the rear-most part of the bracket and tie them into the top 2 holes of the diff cover. This will make it a little annoying to pop the cover off and service the thing, but theres really no other way to do it without welding to the cast iron.
I could be completely wrong though, some beefy bolts and 90ft/lbs might be enough to keep it there. I'm no engineer, i dropped out of mechanical engineering in college

I spoke with my ex machinist coworker, that also has a mechanical engineering degree.

What he said is the bracket needed a pieces on the forward leading edge that hits on a part of the diff housing that would keep the bracket from rotating forward on acceleration, he said having the bracket mounted to the 2 upper bolts on the cover housing would not do very much,since the forward wheel movement moves those ears down.

[416velle]

FIRST RACE WEEKEND OF 2024 BABY

Off to a start. Decent start but not great. 4 seconds off the fastest time of the day on test and tune day, so that makes me happy. Buuut i ran into some significant issues as a result of pushing the car harder than ever. Off and on missfire at part throttle (clears up at wide open somehow), havent had it tuned properly yet so im not too worried about that. Whats concerning is the axle hop im experiencing on hard braking during a wide sweeping turn. Very dangerous. I played with shock settings enough to conclude with the rear shocks FULL LOOSE, it doesnt do it as bad, and straight line braking its a beast. The signs suggest that i was picking up the rear inside tire, and the clunking the rear diff was making seems to indicate this as well. So im going to play with rear sway bar stiffness and lower the roll center the last 3/4” tomorrow, and if neither of those are joyful then i think i need to back down a spring rate about 50 or 100lbs to a 400. Shame on me for building something one off and expecting it to work perfectly right out of the box! But i built it for adjustability, this is part of the process. Another post soon to come tomorrow with results of the changes!

[416velle]

Might've made a big oopsie.

Got to the event today and after starting the car again for tech, it developed a death rattle. I determined very quickly it is not a main/rod bearing going out because it didn't seize at idle, so i limped it home driving as fast as possible. Got pulled over, begged and pleaded in the guise of "this engine IS a ticking timebomb", and got home. Haven't taken it apart, but I think either a cam bearing is going away or a cam lobe is flat. Theres a LOT of valvetrain noise and slight screech/squeak from the back half of the engine. Unfortunate but that's racing. Haven't dove into it yet, I think the extent I'll look at today is pulling a valve cover and checking valvetrain clearances. Finding out what happened will be easy though, the difficult part will be determining WHY. Because I have a baffled pan, high volume/high pressure oil pump, billet oil dumbbell, the whole shabang. I think this engine is coming out regardless. Deep down, I'm hoping its unrebuildable so I have an excuse to toss an aluminum block in it. But don't tell my wallet that

[chevelletiger]

I actually just pushed out the cam bearings on the ly6 6.0 I'm working on.
I'm going to run the stock crank and pistons,and re ring and bearing it,and throw a stage 2 or 3 cam in it and send it.
Your running a stroker right?
Sorry to hear your having issues with it.

[416velle]

Its been a while, but were back with new old teenie tiny LS1 power!
Significant changes have taken place since my last unfortunate post of breaking the 416.
That engine met its demise with a lifter wheel that stopped turning, tore up the cam, oil pump, and JUST ENOUGH wear on the cylinder walls to lay the block to rest (070 bored, no good no mo) but not enough to tear up the piston skirts somehow. The rotating assembly will be used in the next build. Bought a rebuilder 6.2 block that needed sleeves without doing the math and finding a NEW LS3 block costs a little bit less.
Bought a new LS3 block from Jegs bc it was in stock, which in classic Jegs fashion meant its September now and i have no ETA for when i will get it.
I resorted to the constant doomscrolling of Marketplace for various random crap and had the obvious idea to toss a junkyard LS in the car. I found a local complete running low miles bone stock LS1 a few days into that search, I wasn’t initially at liberty to spend 2K on that motor but knowing what I know now, that was worth it. I intended on keeping it bone stock in the chevelle, which meant of course i was going to put a cam in it. Tossed in a witchcraft Comp Cams NSR Drift cam, LS2 timing chain, rocker trunions, hardened pushrods, worked over LS2 manifold, checked the cam bearings (brand new actually), dumbbell of death and plopped it in the car. My justification was the fact i have no clue how long the LS1 will be in the car so i may as well let it live and last. Fired right up and runs great, quiet, smooth, doesn’t make even 500hp but it gets the car down the road.

Now…while installing the engine and trans in the car, i was tightening the VERY LAST transmission crossmember bolt when i found CRACKS on the crossmember. I’ll post pictures, but long story short: finish weld EVERYTHING YOU BUILD and ALL parts you buy, 3” long stitch beads is a no go for me now on. Its now absolute overkill with strength, but along with new engine mounts, the trans doesnt vibrate nearly as much and full throttle shifting is a LOT easier.

A few shorts posts back, i complained about a VICIOUS brake-hop situation. Well while in the process of installing the 225lb springs and removing the 600s, the axle was at full droop and both springs had 1/4” of WIGGLE. ZERO SPRING PRELOAD. So sonce my antisquat percentage is low and the back end rises under hard braking, it was at full extension and bouncing with that unsprung travel. 225s are in, good to go, no more hop.

REAR SWAY BAR!!! I did some very very rough measurements on estimated CoG height and estimated roll center height of the factory suspension vs the new 3 link, and determined the new setup has a roll center thats a little more than 2x the distance from the CoG as the factory 4 link. A LONG time ago i contacted UMI about the rate differences between the “pro touring” and “Drag” sway bars, pulled up the email and the stiffest setting on the protour bar was 440 and the loosest on the drag was 1100. Well, 440 goes into 1100 a little over 2x, so at this point the monkey in my brain starts clanking the cymbals and i buy the drag bar. Installed it, bolted right on, UMI rules.
Even on the street…i could INSTANTLY feel a difference in steering response. Since the back end of the car wasnt rolling as much, the rear bar took some weight off the shoulders of the front of the car and lets the front bar do its job. Super instant steering input, and i finally could take all the adjustment out of the shocks and start that process over.
Found my next local autocross meet and signed up. Learned my lesson and rented a Uhaul to trailer the car and blasted out there.

RACE DAY
FROM RUN 1…between the 150lbs or so of weight loss and the rear suspension tweaks, the car feels like a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MACHINE. Yes it has less power, that didn’t matter. Not ONCE did I spin the tires or loop the car. Its so much harder to over drive now. It does what i want, when i want it, and how i want to do it. She was working more harmoniously, and since I wasn’t fighting the car at all, i could allow myself to not think about the car as much and rather focus on my driving.
So i was actually able to utilize the strategy of identifying 2 elements on the track to improve upon in the next run, and i improved every run from 64 and change to a 60.4s lap on that layout. Now, on that same token, i did identify that at least at this point in my autocross career, using the “Accelerate harder sooner and brake later harder” did not work mentally. If someone was in the passenger seat next to me telling me when to romp and brake, thats a different story.

FASTEST CAM-T CAR against a Speedtech’ed 69 Camaro, and off pace from FTD by a bit less than 4 seconds. Fantastic day of autocross for me.
The engines in 1 piece, thats all I care about at this point post-event.

So whats next?

Well i identified some tweaks i can do the next event. I did notice under heavy braking, the back end of the car likes to rise quite a bit because of my control arm angles., i have adjustment holes on the axle to dial in some antisquat but my Ridetech coilover mount doesnt let me do that. I ordered some brackets from QA1 because i like their bracket design, it wont require welding, and i can help that out. Part of this was also the fact i didnt dial in much more rebound stiffness to the shocks which would undeniably help a little, but the bar angle is a more reliable change that wont affect ride quality.
Going into the super nitty gritty…i was able to see a LITTLE bit more imprinting of the track surface on the rear tires vs the fronts, which tells me theres still a very slight disagreement between the ability of the front suspension and the rear suspension to roll at a similar rate.
I have an idea for doing a Ridetech Tall 2” drop spindle that accomodates the C7 hubs, which would RAISE my roll center out front compared to the 1” drop spindle and give me a little more effective roll stiffness. BUT…i dont know if those work with the Speedtech Ackermann Arms which i will not get rid of.
I also intend on eventually buying the ABC Performance front lower control arms that will fix my modified end link situation that i dont like. I also suspect the mount location is a bit different on the ABC vs my current UMI lower arm which may positively impact the roll stiffness.
If the front situation isnt remedied from the control arms or the spindles dont work at all with the arms, then i will look at a thicker sway bar from ABC.

Now that the cars running again, im more inclined to make regular updates back on here again.
Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk, have a nice day fellas!
Photo dump will happen eventually

[416velle]

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[chevelletiger]

Whew,that bad news.
BTW what flywheel pressure plate and disc did you end up using after the non sprung one?

[416velle]

Its been a LONG while since my last update, a little bit has changed on this car but a lot of work was done

-Eenie weenie LS1 is in storage and a new stroker LS3 is back in the car
-Sweet Mfg 8:1 steering box
-NEW TAHRS
-Made some inner fenders.
-Lithium battery

Respectively and going down the list;

-New stroker motor is the same specs as the prior stroker motor with a little more compression and a few less cubes (.040 on a aluminum 6.0 block scared me a bit but the builder had confidence in the wall thickness for an N/A application. This is a throwaway block and will not take more overbore in the event of catastrophe). It was a good humbling feeling to have an LS1 in the car and think that this engine is where the craze all started. But man, 400horsepower is gutless and woefully inadequate.
New motor is a 410ci, ported LS3 heads, 13.5:1 compression, 235/[email protected] .620 lift cam (same cam I've run for 5 years), ported LS3 intake, E85, 1-7/8 headers, 650ish horse, and LS7 lifters because I'm salty to Morel lol
I didn't build it so this means it will last!!!

-The single greatest thing I've done on this car is the steering box. Most of the board people in my SCCA region are all spec Miata people and there's mainly small cars (at or below 2500lbs). The layouts are very tight and technical. This kind of sucks with a long wheelbase 3300lb 650hp boat and I found myself limiting how fast I go in some corners with the fear of rotating too much and spinning out without the capability to recover. I no longer have that fear with this steering box, lock to lock is 1-3/4 turns. Fast circle track guys use these boxes to turn the wheel right to go left, its doing exactly what it wants to do.
October was the last event I attended and I had the fastest 1st lap time of the entire pool of 52 cars and I attribute most of that to the steering, and the rest of that to the tires. This was truly amazing to me.
The downside to the steering box is the sensitivity on the street, this is in my view a race-only mod.

-With Falken's RT660+ coming out, the legacy 660's were on blowout everywhere. Picked up a set for like $900. Absolutely awesome. With the car a bunch more balanced and me being able to push it harder, I was HUMBLED and hit HARD with knowledge bombs and direct experience with the significance of tire pressures, so that will be a between-lap maintenance item now on.

-Made some inner fenders, I wanted to use aluminum but I don't know how to TIG weld quite yet, haven't figured out what my machine likes in terms of tungsten quite yet (its from the 80s).
Had a little vision, mocked up from bristol from hobby lobby, and just started building. IMO they're the nicest part of the car now and definitely some of my best work, I really like how they came out. Theres still a few things I want to do (contour to the frame and control arm) and close them up completely near the firewall. I also need to figure out an intake situation for the engine, there is a hole in the driver inner and the airbox I built years ago fits but I can save a few oz if I build another that doesn't require me to remove a bunch of stuff to clean the filter.

I used anti-gravity batteries when I was into motorcycles, for some reason I had the idea to see what they made for cars. Low and behold they make a bunch! Circuit protection, built-in jump-start capability, and 30lbs weight loss? Count me in. For the location situation, I'm toying the idea of re-relocating the battery back up front to save weight on 20ft of 0ga battery cable.

Now for winter projects, I think I'm going to pick up some corner scales and do plot some geometry and balancing measurements (CoG, pitch/dive center, squat/antisquat)
I'm not concerned about weight, the car is basically exactly where I want it at 3250-3280, and I'm not concerned about the front, as far as I'm concerned its dialed in to my driving style and desire.

-I haven't really got the 3-link exactly where I want it, and on-track there was a higher speed back-half where on throttle it felt very bumpy and I'm not sure why (felt like the axle was cycling up/down causing this, its not losing traction and its not like the shocks were stiff following the road surface). It did not do this when I had more squat dialed into into it, I think I want to try a different hole on the lower arms to give it a bit more squat.
And if this doesn't change the chatter, then I need to rethink my upper control arm mount and probably go into the anti-squat realm, which would be interesting because I need to cut a sheetmetal crossmember out of the body and build into the rear seat area. I'm completely out of adjustment as it sits right now
-Carpet is on the list, interior is a shoe-in for a nice looking car so that would be cool.
-I want to re-re-redo the trunk and start over with fuel tank mounting, and maybe go with a smaller cell for less fuel (less weight!!!). When I changed the 3 link from watts to PHB, I did that after the body was installed. The trunk consists of some aluminum installed with sheetmetal screws and a little bit of the stock trunk, it would be really nice to not have to deal with the sheetmetal screws vibrating. That is by far the worst sound this car's ever made.
-Fuel cell baffling. I think hydramat and some baffling could allow me to run 3-4 gallons and not experience fuel starvation. We're grasping at straws here but 3200 even I think is a solid goal.
-I want to route a catch can vent hose to the cowl area to mitigate fire risk.

Photo dump soon to follow.

[416velle]

The racecar crossroads

I'm sure everyone has had to come to terms with the question, "How full-race do you want to go?"
I came into contact with Ron Sutton, ordered some steering stuff from him. After being very surprised with the amount of useful information given in the catalogs on his website, I came across the "decoupled 3 link" section. I'd heard of the decoupled torque arm setup from Unbalanced Engineering, I did not know the 3-link equivalent exists. Went back and fourth with Ron a bit on the idea, and I came to the conclusion that its doable on the chevelle frame without altering lower control arm lengths, and would probably take 10-15hrs of fab start to finish. But, there is the distinction that the decoupled 3 link DOES NOT like to be used on the street, as it doesn't *like* to cycle up and down very well.
Given the benefits of mechanical traction control, it seems like an extremely good idea that would take this car to the next level, but it would nuke the streetability of it.
I do not know the answer as to what I want to do with the car.
The car is already kind of miserable on the street given its on E85 and gets 7-9MPG. It doesn't have a single soft bushing anywhere on the suspension. It has stiff springs and coilovers adjusted stiff for autocross. It has tires that are $2000 and an aggressive alignment that eats them alive. Exhaust dumps before the axle and its LOUD. A rollbar on the street is a TERRIBLE idea without a helmet. 5pt harness is annoying on the street.

IF I decide to go the route of no return, theres a couple other things I would do to completely eliminate it from street duty all together. Those things include:
-fiberglass doors and lexan windows
-change from T56 to a stoutly built muncie or 4 speed transmission (This is a recipe for MISERABLE HIGHWAY DRIVING, 3500RPM at 70mph)
-cut out and redo the roll bar with use of .083 and .065 wall tubing for weight reduction (I kind of want to do this anyways, because itll force me to learn TIG)
-down the road, I'd like to section the firewall and shove the engine back a couple inches for more rearward weight bias. Also included in this would be a lightweight core support, likely from RonRhodes (for a 70) and make it work for 69. Also included in this would be changing radiator location for aerodynamics, makes splitter more usable and easier, etc etc etc.
If anyone has insight to sway me in one direction or another on what they would do here, feel free to chime in.

On a different note, something in my spidey sense told me that a possible reason the stroker engine went goodbye last year was a result of the condensation inside the crankcase (from E85 and no PCV, just a catch can) rusting internal parts which dislodged, clogging the lifter up and the wheel to stop turning. Decided to put a GZ Vacuum pump on the thing to extract the moisture, and a cherry on top is giving me a bit more horsepower. Looks cool, installed simple, and the power increase is actually noticeable up top.
Had to dig and find photos of the innder fender project (new phone and running out of google storage); those and a few finished product pics included.

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[Olds.PhD]

I mean, its your car. No one can make that choice for you.

For me, my A-body will never be a full race car, because its just not a great platform to make one from, in my opinion. Weight distribution, chassis stiffness, and sheer size just make it far less ideal than other platforms. Don't get me wrong, I've done a ton to make it faster around an autocross course and enjoy thrashing it. But my C3 is a better platform for a full effort build.

On that note though, a C3 is a much worse platform than a C4, which is worse than a C5, and on and on. And if I didn't have a C3, I'd probably keep going on my A-body. So if its what you really want, go for it. Make the fastest Chevelle ever.