Paint Jail...how long is too long?

[redbull396]

I'm sure many of us have experienced and dealt with paint jail, congrats to those that never have!
So I live in WV, not a plethora of reputable paint/body guys that will work on old stuff, but there are some. My car is with a wonderfully talented paint guy that has put out some amazing car. That said, April will be 3 years that he has my car. This was not a frame off job. It was all new front sheetmetal, new 1/4s, and a couple of very small time consuming changes.
Original completion time was 12-14 months which was fine, yet here I am climbing on 30 mos. I have seen projects come and go since delivering mine. Dozens of insurance jobs, which I get to an extent, but youre either a restoration shop or youre a insurance body shop!
Final paint of everything was in May, and the car has yet to be assembled.
Money is square, even tho the price has gone up slightly...imagine that!! And my first notion of his timeline a couple months ago, the guy comes unhinged and suggests I just come get the car, which I KNEW would be his response. Hence, my patience past that 12-14 month original timeline.
Last thing I want to do is pick my car up in pieces, and find someone else to finish another persons work.

How have yall handled situations like this? Patience? It is what it is? Get it, find someone else?

Any advice would be appreciated!!

[thumper877]

Sorry to hear about all your troubles. It's easy for me to say because it's not my car but 3 years and still not assembled is ridiculous. Most places will definitely do insurance work first. Patience goes out the window after 3 years and its still not close. Shouldn't of taken on the job if he couldn't finish it in a timely manor. The first person that got mad at me for asking about a time line my car would be out of there. I know because I took mine out of a shop that wasn't working on it. You say your square on money so have u already paid him? That could be why he's not working on it. It definitely sucks being in that situation but sounds like he doesn't care and u really don't want someone working on your car that doesn't care. Good luck

[redbull396]

Sorry to hear about all your troubles. It's easy for me to say because it's not my car but 3 years and still not assembled is ridiculous. Most places will definitely do insurance work first. Patience goes out the window after 3 years and it’s still not close. Shouldn't of taken on the job if he couldn't finish it in a timely manor. The first person that got mad at me for asking about a time line my car would be out of there. I know because I took mine out of a shop that wasn't working on it. You say your square on money so have u already paid him? That could be why he's not working on it. It definitely sucks being in that situation but sounds like he doesn't care and u really don't want someone working on your car that doesn't care. Good luck

Thanks for chiming in. Def frustrated, but kinda bt a rock and hard place with limited to no options to have someone finish it. Talked to one guy I’d trust and he even recommended I leave it where it is to have current guy finish.
as far as money, has been done in draws. I’ve paid him so much up front, then in draws as he’s needed it for time worked. As of now, I feel more money has been given than work performed based on timeline.

[Olds.PhD]

I'm curious why you feel someone else has to finish it? If its just putting it back together, it isn't that difficult to do. Takes some time, and you'll want to be careful with the new paint, but it is very doable at home. If he still needs to cut and buff the paint, that's a bit more tricky, as you could burn through the paint if you mess up, but it is still doable at home.

Three years is entirely too much time for a paint job, even with a good amount of body work. The guy lashing out when you ask for a timeline is a huge red flag, and the longer it sits there, the more likely it is to never get put back together. I've seen shops go out of business with people's car or money in hand and its always a battle to recover anything. Asking for a timeline is not an unreasonable request, especially when you're well past the quoted completion time.

Me personally, I'd be showing up with a truck and trailer to get my car out of there.

[redbull396]

I'm curious why you feel someone else has to finish it? If its just putting it back together, it isn't that difficult to do. Takes some time, and you'll want to be careful with the new paint, but it is very doable at home. If he still needs to cut and buff the paint, that's a bit more tricky, as you could burn through the paint if you mess up, but it is still doable at home.

Three years is entirely too much time for a paint job, even with a good amount of body work. The guy lashing out when you ask for a timeline is a huge red flag, and the longer it sits there, the more likely it is to never get put back together. I've seen shops go out of business with people's car or money in hand and its always a battle to recover anything. Asking for a timeline is not an unreasonable request, especially when you're well past the quoted completion time.

Me personally, I'd be showing up with a truck and trailer to get my car out of there.
Agree, its entirely too long for this. I would put it back together, but there are still parts yet to be painted. Inner fenders, radiator support, etc., not to mention trim, window trim, and rear bumper (going black). Which that isn't a big deal, anyone could do that.
I do not particularly want to pick up, haul, and reassemble, seems destined to get damaged. Plus, final cut and buff needs done as well.
The original deal was to reinstall all glass, window assembly, trim, and RS grill. I will be doing that, as I just want the sheetmetal installed and get the damn thing.

[dhutton]

There is not enough money in it for him to finish it. He wants you to pull the car, that’s why he put on a little show for you.

Don

[BK75]

I'd pick it up.

I personally dont have the patience to wait that long. With the shop being paid in full, they dont want to put in additional production hours to finish the job. It sucks, but it would be a huge stress relief. I can only imagine a few sleepless nights.

Get it finished the rest of the way yourself.. Too many times "We" in our hobby grow old waiting to drive our projects.

[79 Camaro]

I would go and get the car. If the body shop guy is OK with it maybe one of their workers could do the cut and buff along with reassembly in your shop after hours?
I can tell you no one at the body shop is standing in line to do wet sanding and buffing. Along with reassembly. That is all straight time work. Many shop workers can make much better money doing insurance work. But after hours work with no taxes or deductions may make sense.

[redbull396]

There is not enough money in it for him to finish it. He wants you to pull the car, that’s why he put on a little show for you.

Don

Thats a damn good take, and not one I had thought of.


I would go and get the car. If the body shop guy is OK with it maybe one of their workers could do the cut and buff along with reassembly in your shop after hours?
I can tell you no one at the body shop is standing in line to do wet sanding and buffing. Along with reassembly. That is all straight time work. Many shop workers can make much better money doing insurance work. But after hours work with no taxes or deductions may make sense.

One man show, with a part time helper, so that's not an option.

[minendrews68]

I agree with Don. This guy has already skimmed the gravy off that job and now he's hoping you'll come get it so he won't have to do the tedious time consuming things. Have you paid him for what he's done so far? Do you still him the money to finish? Not being nosy just saying if he wants more money up front I'd tell him to show me some work and we'll talk.

[redbull396]

I agree with Don. This guy has already skimmed the gravy off that job and now he's hoping you'll come get it so he won't have to do the tedious time consuming things. Have you paid him for what he's done so far? Do you still him the money to finish? Not being nosy just saying if he wants more money up front I'd tell him to show me some work and we'll talk.

That's where we are. Job has not been paid for in full, and I would never hand someone that kind of money up front. He has been paid for what work has been done at time of completion in installments basically as he's requested payments, and I told him I would pay him in full once the car is finished. He has 85% of the money quoted for the job. Money is not an issue with me, I have been blessed with my career, so he cannot use that excuse.

[dhutton]

I would be chapped to see my fresh painted panels sitting out in the shop covered in dust.

Don

[redbull396]

I would be chapped to see my fresh painted panels sitting out in the shop covered in dust.

Don

Oh, I was. He brushed it off and said it needs cut and buffed anyway so no biggy. TBH, entire cab was covered like that prior to cut and buff on it.

[mc84_zz4]

Congratulations, you are almost paroled from paint jail.
The paint looks great, if it were mine, I would take it home in pieces, and carefully reassemble.
The shop can do the Final Cut and buff after assembly, and touch-up any minor scrapes if there were any.
I am assuming the paint was finished week(s) ago, so it should be ok to move around with comforters. The doors could use a bit of separating them from the lighter parts.
I am assuming they did fit the fenders, doors, and nose before disassembly, if not, expect a bit of finessing, starting with the doors, radiator core, nose, inner/outer fenders. Use lots of paint tape to protect edges, etc.
The rear side windows are a PITA, take you time, add some soundproofing in the cabin since it’s east now.
You can pat yourself on the back for the achievement, as nobody else will do it as careful.

[NCSU68]

The colour looks great. I am sure the finished car will be worth the wait!

[TheCrucible]

Sorry to hear, this is my biggest fear when taking the car to a shop. I'm curious, what is the paint color? It's almost exactly what's on my car and I can't find the paint code for it.

[redbull396]

The colour looks great. I am sure the finished car will be worth the wait!

Thanks, and I hope!


Sorry to hear, this is my biggest fear when taking the car to a shop. I'm curious, what is the paint color? It's almost exactly what's on my car and I can't find the paint code for it.

Not sure the paint code, but it's Jaguar Caesium blue.

[c3rocket]

I f it was my car I would have picked it up a long time ago and as far as the shop goes and the owner and I was in my 30s I would be having a long chat with the man out side his shop ending with a good beat down and followed by bashing his shop for ever .

[Alwhite00]

Your mistake was paying up front, no motivation now.

[redbull396]

Your mistake was paying up front, no motivation now.
I didn't pay up front, stated that, I have paid him installments as work has been done.

[slimjim]

I'm a plus 1 for picking it up, and/or negotiating a deal to go out there for a day and with his helper or himself, assemble/gap the car with them to get it on a truck that afternoon. If he can't spare himself or his helper a day to free up a whole lot of shop space then I'd be confident that he has no enthusiasm to see it through.

On the bright side I see 2 huge positives.

1. his work looks really good! as far as body shop nightmares go, it looks like you're at least getting some quality, and not a total hack job. (based on those photos alone, and not knowing what's underneath).

2. If you're willing, learning the cut and buff stage yourself is a great skill to take forward in maintaining your show quality car, take it from someone with no experience, who learnt this week.

[redbull396]

I'm a plus 1 for picking it up, and/or negotiating a deal to go out there for a day and with his helper or himself, assemble/gap the car with them to get it on a truck that afternoon. If he can't spare himself or his helper a day to free up a whole lot of shop space then I'd be confident that he has no enthusiasm to see it through.

On the bright side I see 2 huge positives.

1. his work looks really good! as far as body shop nightmares go, it looks like you're at least getting some quality, and not a total hack job. (based on those photos alone, and not knowing what's underneath).

2. If you're willing, learning the cut and buff stage yourself is a great skill to take forward in maintaining your show quality car, take it from someone with no experience, who learnt this week.

Thank you. Per our last convo, he is going to get the inners, etc. painted soon, and front end assembled, and lined up. I told him not to worry about cut and buff, that I would take care of that. It's not something I want to do, but something I feel confident in doing, as I have done it before, and have all the materials/tools to do so.

As far as quality, it has been superb. The guy is very good at what he does, and is super meticulous. However, "bedside" manners and business skills are severely lacking.

[thumper877]

Hopefully he sticks to the painted soon agreement since he didn't the first time

[TheJDMan]

Stories like this are why I have never gotten too excited about getting "Dust Off" repainted. That and the fact my paint is chipped enough that I'm not too worried about a few new chips after a track day.

[Alwhite00]

I didn't pay up front, stated that, I have paid him installments as work has been done.

You said you were at 85% I don't know but let's say 20k. You paid him 17k so he doesn't want to do all of the remaining work for 3k. You should be at about 50% payment at this point. I don't know what the answer to your problem is but I can see what happened.

[redbull396]

You said you were at 85% I don't know but let's say 20k. You paid him 17k so he doesn't want to do all of the remaining work for 3k. You should be at about 50% payment at this point. I don't know what the answer to your problem is but I can see what happened.

Yea, I see what you are saying. This is my first rodeo with a project like this, and had no clue what a ratio of progress to payment should be. You're numbers aren't far off. I was quoted 15 for the job, plus material. New quarters, smooth firewall, had all new front end sheet metal. Obviously, fit everything first and tear back apart. He has done an excellent job, just slow. At this point, he has 12k, and half the front end on. We had some down time due to getting AC lines/fittings to run through the pass fender and hide from the engine bay.
Dude has actually been cool, and seems eager to finish after we had it out. Maybe he was just in a bad place, and I was short on patience. Either way, will be 3 years in April, and no matter how ya slice it, that's too long!

[Kevin Campbell]

Yea, I see what you are saying. This is my first rodeo with a project like this, and had no clue what a ratio of progress to payment should be. You're numbers aren't far off. I was quoted 15 for the job, plus material. New quarters, smooth firewall, had all new front end sheet metal. Obviously, fit everything first and tear back apart. He has done an excellent job, just slow. At this point, he has 12k, and half the front end on. We had some down time due to getting AC lines/fittings to run through the pass fender and hide from the engine bay.
Dude has actually been cool, and seems eager to finish after we had it out. Maybe he was just in a bad place, and I was short on patience. Either way, will be 3 years in April, and no matter how ya slice it, that's too long!


Not to detract from your concerns. From the images you've shared, and the work you described, you got a killer deal on what appears to be some excellent quality work.

Unlike so many stories that we hear often about shops that not only do not complete cars, but outright steal items or disappear, yours seems to be coming to a pleasant conclusion. Congrats, Beautiful car.

[redbull396]

Not to detract from your concerns. From the images you've shared, and the work you described, you got a killer deal on what appears to be some excellent quality work.

Unlike so many stories that we hear often about shops that not only do not complete cars, but outright steal items or disappear, yours seems to be coming to a pleasant conclusion. Congrats, Beautiful car.

Thank you. That is the one silver lining here, dude is doing a killer job, and is well known for his quality work. I am finding out now, after the fact, that he is well known for taking his sweet time on things. I have encountered a couple of people that have dealt with the same in the past from the builder, and of course, ya never find this stuff out until after the fact.
There's light at the end of the tunnel, but yes, he is doing a phenomenal job quality wise.

[Kevin Campbell]

You can tell by the work he puts out that he has a passion for it, and likely makes little per hour on restorations or completes compared to insurance jobs. Even a conservative 500 hour build at a low end $75/hr would be $37500 in labor alone, and out of that labor, rent/ mortgage, utilities and such are gone before he even sees a dime.

All those insurance jobs likely subsidized him being able to tackle your job simply because he loves the sense of satisfaction seeing the finished product. He could have easily concentrated on fender benders and made more money.

At the end, hopefully, you’ll get the car you wished for, albeit later than planned, but it isn’t hacked together and needs to be completely redone at three times the price.

[gto406]

Only $12k - and you have received this level of work/finish?! Screaming good deal IMHO. Paint jobs - especially looking that nice (these days) are usually well above that. Hell, paint and materials are ridiculous. I have statements from my ‘69 Bird (finished Oct ‘22) to corroborate!

One idea: consider awarding him a finishing ‘bonus’ of 10% - if he finishes the car per your ‘reasonable’ deadline - payable at completion / with your final draw amount.

That would be an act of goodwill, on your part - and may motivate him to get the car done.

If he doesn’t meet the deadline (based on agreed version of ‘done’) then he forfeits the bonus. Your no worse off - 1 way or the other.

Car is looking really nice, I am sure all the heart-ache will fade once your driving/enjoying the car!

[redbull396]

Only $12k - and you have received this level of work/finish?! Screaming good deal IMHO. Paint jobs - especially looking that nice (these days) are usually well above that. Hell, paint and materials are ridiculous. I have statements from my ‘69 Bird (finished Oct ‘22) to corroborate!

One idea: consider awarding him a finishing ‘bonus’ of 10% - if he finishes the car per your ‘reasonable’ deadline - payable at completion / with your final draw amount.

That would be an act of goodwill, on your part - and may motivate him to get the car done.

If he doesn’t meet the deadline (based on agreed version of ‘done’) then he forfeits the bonus. Your no worse off - 1 way or the other.

Car is looking really nice, I am sure all the heart-ache will fade once your driving/enjoying the car!

I reckon that's one positive thing about living in BFE WV, we don't have big city prices on many things. Yes, 12 in labor so far, and I have about 4k in materials. This paint was 1800/gal.
Funny you mention the deadline bonus, I tried that and offered another 2k on top to have the car done by end of January, this was beginning of November. He was very put off by that, and informed me he doesn't do deadlines. I know why, bc he currently has 3 insurance jobs sitting in his shop.

[dhutton]

Guys who are telling you that you got a great deal when it’s still not finished three years into the job must be young. At my age 3 years is a significant portion of the time I have left. It’s complete BS imho and that’s why I started doing my own body and paint.

Never trust a one man shop with multiple cars in process….

Don

[2gofaster]

Oh man, I'm living this scenario too. That said, I'm only going on 23 months. The guy came recommended by everyone around me. That said, its coming to a close as it's being assembled now. In June I came back from a 6 week out of the country trip to find he'd only moved it from one slot to another. I went over there spoiling for a fight. It's still taken 7 months to near completion. The silly thing is I outsourced it because I was busy and it would have taken me 18 months to get the paint done. So now Im 5 months over that and my wallet is $50k lighter.

What's too long? Anything where the timeline is not communicated properly. And that is what was happening with me. He is terrible at estimating deliverables. I wasn't even asking for cost estimate. And he is terrible at staging work in his shop. He'd call me and say "Ok, we're out of hours." And within 24 hours I'd show up with a stack of $50s. Only to then have it sit for 6 weeks. That's a no interest loan, in my book. Just a bad business man. Nice guy. But a bad businessman.

Sorry to hear someone else going through it.

[redbull396]

"Ok, we're out of hours." And within 24 hours I'd show up with a stack of $50s. Only to then have it sit for 6 weeks. That's a no interest loan, in my book. Just a bad business man. Nice guy. But a bad businessman.

Sorry to hear someone else going through it.

To a T the same thing I have dealt with!! It has been very frustrating, as I am sure you know all too well. Are we sure our cars aren't at the same shop?!? lmao

[redbull396]

Seeing some progress… (never mind the horribly offset front wheels, just rollers for now)
205300205301205302

[Hopperj7]

what is a decent amount of time to wait for a paint job? I am curious as I look to get mine painted next year.