Ridetech coilovers and stock height spindle

[robbbc]

Just picked up some coilovers and the front was setting a tad higher than i want. Honestly it looked almost stock ride height. Do you have to have a drop spindle in order to get a lower stance with the ridetech coilovers? The kit i ordered was supposed to have came with 700lb springs but came with 750 instead. I contacted Ridetech and the guy said he can swap them out no problem but he was thinking that i would have to get a shorter shock in order to get the lower stance. My goal is not to slam the car to the ground but to eliminate some of the gap between the tire and fender. I have shipped the springs to ridetech and should recieve the 700's in the next few days, but now i'm thinking more into what was said about a shorter shock. Is the lowered ride height possible without a drop spindle? The spindle i have is the CPP C5 replica for 1st gen. Stock height. Any info you guys could share would be greatly appreciated.


Rob

[marolf101x]

I assume you are using Ridetech upper and lower control arms?

Were you out of adjustment thread on the shock body? Meaning, was the spring adjustment collar all the way to the bottom of the shock?

You can adjust it that far to lower the car, but you sacrifice shock stroke, which could cause the vehicle to bottom out, poor ride quality and possibly damage parts.

Just for a reference, the starting point to adjusting your front suspension is to view the suspension from the front. Ride height is when the lower control arm pivot bolt on the frame is level with the center of the lower ball joint. This is where the parts were designed to be at ride height. You can adjust lower than that of course, but you should understand what the cons may be if you go too low.

If you cannot get low enough without sacrificing shock travel then you have to lower via drop spindles.

[robbbc]

hey thanks for the response! yes, i have the upper and lower a arms and sway bar. I was not out of adjustment threads and had just barely snugged the spring with preload. The instructions suggested that a lower spring rate would be needed if it sets too high once the spring has been preloaded. I did have a good amount of threads on the shock that i could lower it but was under assumption that the spring could fall out of the coil spring retaining ring? Any info you could share here would be great.

Thanks!

[marolf101x]

Though it’s good practice to slightly preload the spring so it doesn’t fall out if you jump the car, it’s not 100% required.
Lower spring rate may hurt ride quality.

There’s also a dropped spring cap that basically “lengthens” the spring:
https://www.ridetech.com/product/dropped-spring-retainer-cup/

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Just make sure you have enough shock stroke left, and that the lower arms aren’t angled up too much.

[robbbc]

good to know. My car is 68 camaro ls7, t56, magnum bolt in 4 link, ford 9" oh and air conditioned. When i called for a spring recommendation, the fella on the other end of the line recommended 700lb spring. Sound about right?

[marolf101x]

Yep.
We used to have 650lbs in that kit standard, but I just checked and they've upped it to 700lbs.
(page 3, item #2 in the instructions: https://www.ridetech.com/instructions/11160201_WEB.pdf)

750lbs would work as well. 50lbs at a 2:1 motion ratio (so really only 25lbs effective rate) on a 3400lbs car is not a big jump.

We used to run 850-900lbs springs on the 48 Hour Camaro for autocross duty, and ride quality was firm but very acceptable driving all over the country.
That car was very similar to yours, big cube LS, T56, 9" rear, etc.

[robbbc]

Nice! Thanks so much for the info!

[Camaro68+69]

FYI

I have a 68 Camaro with 396 with full Ridetech setup, front & rear. I had to go with 750lb springs with the drop spring cup, and now it sits perfect with a real nice ride

[robbbc]

Thanks. That's good to know. Do you have aluminum heads on the bb? I've been looking at the drop spring cup. I assume you could run one on the rear as well if needed? How much more of adjustment does that drop cup give you?

[marolf101x]

Drop cup is .75”. So on a 2:1 motion ratio you can see 1.5” lower while keeping the spring with just a touch of preload.

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However, again make sure your lower control arms are in the right spot (parallel to the ground).
Get too far off and it’ll all suck

[robbbc]

that's a fair amount of adjustment there. So, please forgive my ignorance but what has to happen in order to make the lower a arm NOT parallel to the ground? Also, how much can you lower the shock before fears of bottoming out?

[marolf101x]

Adjusting the coil over spring nut down lowers the car but raises the lower control arm at the ball joint making it point upward. Adding the drop cap does the same.
The wheel should travel roughly 5” total, typically you want 3” for compression, 2” for rebound (extension).
However, the coil over sits on the a arm roughly half way between the ball joint and the frame pivot, therefore it will move 1/2 the distance of the wheel. So ideally you want 1.5” of shock shaft showing at ride height, however it’s difficult to see the shock shaft when assembled and sitting on the ground.
So it’s difficult to say exactly how much you can lower it without bottoming out.

[robbbc]

Ah.. i see. Very good explanation. So the best way to check, once i have it adjusted to where I want, is to jack the car up and check how much the tire droops and to make sure the lower arm is parallel to the ground?

[marolf101x]

That'll work. The lower arm should be close to parallel.
Set it at your desired ride height, then look at the front and note the angles of the lower arms.
If not too dramatic, take it for a spin. If nothing hits and you're comfortable with it, leave it be.

If they are really angled, or if you drive it and it bottoms out everywhere, you'll need to raise the ride height.

[robbbc]

So, it looks like I will be running the 750 spring with a drop cup. Called to check the status today and was told that 700 spring was not available and not sure when they would be in stock. Will report back when I receive the springs, cups, and get them installed. Any tips tricks or problem areas advice is welcomed.

[Camaro68+69]

no, I have iron heads, No a/c, its a convertible so I have my 55mph a/c

[robbbc]

thanks. looks like ill be running the same. How comfortable is the ride and do you have any issues with the shock bottoming out?

[robbbc]

Update** springs showed up today, drop caps did not. Called and looks like another week out.:throw:

[robbbc]

so, I got the coil overs on and adjusted some today. I feel this is really close to where I would like to run them. I took her for a test drive and hit some speed bumps. All seems well so far. I'll continue to tune on the shocks as I drive to get the feel I want. Any suggestions or comments welcome. I know it was stated that the bolt in the subframe should be level with the ball joint and that the arms should be level but for whatever reason it sets up high with the arms level. I'm sure the car is off somewhere as I am a novice and built the car myself. Its pretty cool what a good set of suspension components can do for an old car.

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[marolf101x]

Remember, the Ridetech parts were designed for the 2" drop spindle. So if you installed drop spindles like it is now the front would be 2" lower, which would put the wheel way up in the wheel well, so you'd have to raise the ride height via the coil overs. This would bring the arms back to "straight".
What you have now regarding the control arm angle looks fine.
There's still thread left on the shock body, so the spring can be adjusted up and down, so that looks good. You probably don't need the drop caps.
Personally I'd want it an inch lower, but that might be too far regarding shock stroke.

[robbbc]

Awesome. I plan on getting an alignment and drive for a few days and start from there. I'll try to sneak up on the ride height with small adjustments and check to see if there is going to be any contact. As of now all is well. i do have a question about the coilover itself. Is it normal for the seal around the shaft to look wet/damp? as i was putting these on, i noticed it and thought it looked a little odd. if this looks normal just disregard. i thought maybe the seal needed some sort of lubrication. 198610

[Camaro68+69]

198620198620

[robbbc]

nice ride. What kind of seats are those?

[marolf101x]

That’s the dust seal. There’s actually no oil below it. There’s a seal head under the dust cap that has multiple seals to keep the oil in. What you are seeing is likely residual oil left that’s being scraped off by the dust seal. Totally normal.

[robbbc]

Good deal. I will say, what little i have drove the car so far, i am very pleased.