Chevelle Speedtech upper and lower control arm issues.

[chevelletiger]

I just installed new upper and lower control arms on the 72 chevelle
I have previously installed the chicane upper mount with ridetech coilovers.
I'm using the stock GM short spindle with the howe .9 upper, .5 lower ball joint,as I did with the spc uca and lcas

I haven't done an alignment yet but the upper control arm ball joint is at a pretty extreme angle.

The lower ball joint is in line with the frame mount center line,so that's good.,

Also the lower arms seem to have pushed the wheels outward,more then the spc arms I had on before?


Need some help please.
Thanks.
Phil

[chevelletiger]

Ordered ats tall spindles.
Anybody want some. 9 and .5 tall howe studs?

[stab6902]

The ATS tall spindles will make your upper ball joint angle even worse if you keep the same ride height and control arms.

Think about it, the ATS spindle is 2" taller (vs your 1.4" taller ball joint setup). Sure, the ATS spindles have a one inch drop, but your 0.5" taller lower ball joint is giving you a 0.5" drop already. So assuming you want to keep the same ride height, your upper ball joint will actually be 0.1" higher with the ATS spindles, exacerbating your upper ball joint issue.

Your lower ball joints will be 0.5" lower so they'll be at less of an angle, which is a step in the right direction, assuming your coilovers have enough rebound travel.

[raustinss]

The ATS spindle design has been purchased by speedtech .. speedtech then designed their control arms to best work with that spindle

[stab6902]

I'm sure everything will bolt together and probably function alright, but if I was paying top dollar for a matched suspension system, I (like the OP) would want the ball joints in a roughly "neutral" position at ride height. Going to the ATS spindles isn't going to help the upper ball joint angle concern.

[raustinss]

I want to say you're wrong but can admit I'm a touch out of my element regardless... speedtech is a major player in this game and many of the top dogs are using their equipment Alan Miller being one . I dont believe people would be using their parts if they didn't give you optimum geometry. Lets also keep in mind the OP hasn't got the new spindles installed nor had it aligned

[dontlifttoshift]

Bump because I am curious as to how the spindle solves the problem.

[raustinss]

Lol me too Donny .. I just hit the internet for pics ... the ats spindle should raise the upper control arm to a more "flat " position. Which would help solve the ball joint angle . I mean from what I can see , I am a NASA engineer trained Dr scientologist196094

[chevelletiger]

Hey guys I emailed speedtech,and Blake said the ball joint at that angle should be fine,but I did buy the ATS tall uprights.
And I'm using the stock ball joints that came with the speedtech arms.
I'll report back with pics once I get it in the ground.

[chevelletiger]

The ATS tall spindles will make your upper ball joint angle even worse if you keep the same ride height and control arms.

Think about it, the ATS spindle is 2" taller (vs your 1.4" taller ball joint setup). Sure, the ATS spindles have a one inch drop, but your 0.5" taller lower ball joint is giving you a 0.5" drop already. So assuming you want to keep the same ride height, your upper ball joint will actually be 0.1" higher with the ATS spindles, exacerbating your upper ball joint issue.

Your lower ball joints will be 0.5" lower so they'll be at less of an angle, which is a step in the right direction, assuming your coilovers have enough rebound travel.
Maybe your assuming I'm going to run the tall ball joints with the ATS uprights
I will be using the stock one provided by speedtech.

[chevelletiger]

Here's some pictures with the Afx Uprights

[stab6902]

Those are definitely a lot prettier.

The upper ball joint angle doesn't jump out at you as much with the shorter stud and the accordion style dust cover, but if you draw some imaginary lines, the angle looks to be about the same to me.

[chevelletiger]

The ATS tall spindles will make your upper ball joint angle even worse if you keep the same ride height and control arms.

Think about it, the ATS spindle is 2" taller (vs your 1.4" taller ball joint setup). Sure, the ATS spindles have a one inch drop, but your 0.5" taller lower ball joint is giving you a 0.5" drop already. So assuming you want to keep the same ride height, your upper ball joint will actually be 0.1" higher with the ATS spindles, exacerbating your upper ball joint issue.

Your lower ball joints will be 0.5" lower so they'll be at less of an angle, which is a step in the right direction, assuming your coilovers have enough rebound travel.

The uprights are 1.5 taller ,not 2.00
From what I see,the upper control arm tubes need to be shorter,or the ball joint plates need.to be at a positive camber.
Kinda scratching my head,because these parts SHOULD WORK TOGETHER.

[stab6902]

Interesting, their website must be out of date, or they make 2 versions now:

"ATS Tall Spindles aren’t just another visual makeover of a C4 Corvette spindle, they’re a completely new design meant to maximize geometry and performance handling. Manufactured from light weight and super strong forged 7075 T73 aluminum, the upper ball joint mount is raised 2″ to optimize camber curve, making a much greater improvement than merely adding a slightly taller ball joint to stock spindles."

https://speedtechperformance.com/product/afx-performance-spindles-1964-1972-chevelle-a-body/

How much drop is built into the spindles you have?

[chevelletiger]

Huh,your probably right!
SH#T the part.has 1.5 etched on it huh???
Sorry about that.

I messaged blake,Blake, if he chimes in.
Oh,there 1 inch drop.

Im pretty much at the same ride height as before with the stock spindle tall ball joints but with spc control arms.
No turning back I spent $$$$$ on all this stuff.

[dontlifttoshift]

Remove spring, remove bump stop on control arm, reinstall shock, run suspension through travel on both sides. If shock bottoms out before the ball joint, great!....... but I would figure out how much travel you have left in the ball joint.

If ball joint bottoms out first, your going to have a bad time eventually.

[chevelletiger]

I'll try that.

Donny,any diy tool I can make to separate the ball joint studs from the uprights without hammering on it like a forged spindle?

As I said in the previous post though,it seems the ball joint
Angles are off,or the upper arms need to be shorter with any type of raised spindle,uprights or tall ball joints.

It's hard to tell by the pictures but the lower ball joint cups don't look to be in there center of travel.

At my ride height, the spc components,were in the sweet spot of the ball joint travel,sucks that I already sold those arms,
I was in the impression this whole system would work better.

Now im not saying anything bad about the speedtech components,these are REALLY NICE Parts.

It's just strange I'm having these issues.
I tried contacting Allen Miller with the red 70 chevelle that had a stock frame with all of speedtechs parts but he doesn't
Answer my dm on Instagram.
I do know he has the extreme frame now,so that might be why.

[dontlifttoshift]

https://allstarperformance.com/ball-joint-spreader-tool-all11174/ These work great, I'm sure you could build one.

It may all work better, but run through travel to make sure.

[chevelletiger]

Thanks donny for the link.
Yeah it might,just seems weird that the ball joints have this issue,
With all the same manufacturers components.

[stab6902]

Here's one I made out of a few bucks worth of 3/4" hardware from Menards. Only way to go if you don't want to beat on your spindles or mess up your dust boots with a pickle fork. You can drill a dimple on top of the bolts to keep them centered on the ball joint studs (though it's not necessary) and just use different length bolts for different sizes of spindles.

196553

[GEARBOXGARAGE]

How are you on your ride height? In your one pic posted the lower control arm looks as though you are beginning to get deeper in the travel, as it is pointing at an upward angle to the outside. Where does this place your coilover in its range of travel? I'm using the ATS spindle along with their Chicane upper mount with RideTech arms and Coilovers and the lowers are close to level and the uppers are pretty much in the middle of the ball joint range of motion when set at the ride height I am going for. The XRF ball joints that Speedtech uses has an extreme amount of travel and my tie rods actually contact the bottom of the frame rail before the ball joint is out of articulation.197278197277197276197279 (Don't mind my cut up frame rail as I cut out a lot of excess material on the factory spring bucket and will be boxing and plating that area back in.)

[chevelletiger]

Hey Mike, I just saw your post.

I haven't worked on the car ,as I got hit hard with covid a couple weeks ago.

I'll update everyone when I get back on it.

I also sent the speedway splined sway bar back,and will be making a custom one with the help from speedtech.

Thank you for the pictures,much appreciated.
Phil

[dgonzale]

I have a 68 Chevelle with Speedtech's upper and lower control arms with their AFX spindles. My ball joints look about the same angle.. I spoke to Speed tech some time ago and they mention that it looks fine..

Any feed back from speedtech about the custom sway bar?

viking 10" springs
viking 207-T shocks

I also have Global west's extended upper travel coil over kit.. COF-42198985

[TheBandit]

I think the upper balljoint angle is only going to be an issue if it binds at full compression. The best way to check is to cycle the suspension and make sure it can hit full compression without binding. Full compression should be set by the stops on the lower control arms and ideally not the shock.

[chevelletiger]

I got only the delrin bushings from speedtech,and pics of Allan Miller's 70 chevelle that did a bar from parts supplied by them,I made the mounts,and tubes myself.
The bar,and arms I got from 1speedwaymotors.

[chevelletiger]

"You are correct, the shock needs enough stroke to not bottom out.
You want roughly 5 inches of wheel travel. Most vehicles we deal with have a roughly 2:1 motion ratio. . .so the shock moves 1/2 the distance the tire moves. So theoretically you need a 2.5" stroke shock, minimum.
Now, that being said, putting a 9 inch stroke shock in the car does not give you 18 inches of wheel travel. The ball joints will bind or you'll hit bumpstops long before that."
This is quoted from Britt marolf.

A really long shock isn't necessary.
About a 4.00-5.00 stroke shock is plenty.