Baer/Wilwood disappointment

[viperman]

Hi All, and HNY.

I recently had installed the Baer SS4 kit, 13 front, 12 rear on my camaro. I also had the MC replaced with a wilwood 15/16" manual MC. I wanted to go all Manual for simplicity sake. I have bled this system 3x, and still a bit dissapointed with the performance. I was thinking these things would throw you through the windshield over the stock 50yr old drum and discs i had.

I was hoping somebody that has a similar setup could measure pedal height, freeplay and total travel. It feels like i need to depress the pedal about 3 inches to get the best stopping power...I have some reservations on the install as I found some simple errors the shop should have caught with other things..so I am thinking push rod adjustment may be an issue. THanks.

JR

[ryeguy2006a]

What year Camaro? I know that the 67-69 Camaro's had two holes in the brake pedal, one for power brakes and one for manual. Could be as simple as they put that rod in the wrong location? What proportional valve are you running too? Maybe there is an issue with residual pressure or something?

FWIW, I have a similar setup with C6 13.4" front and 12" rear LS1 brakes, but Power Brakes with 8" dual booster and a 1" MC. It will do just as you describe and almost put you through the windshield.

[79T/Aman]

This is not a dig however I see and read about this way too often, out of this world expectations and brand name blindness.
Bottom line is brakes are hydraulic clamps, you MUST have a properly designed hydraulic SYSTEM and fluid delivery (master cylinder and pedal).
Secondly you MUST have a pad that is compatible with the usage.

[Tsaints1115]

First thing to check is that the pushrod is in the correct hole on the pedal arm. That said..............

I have been having this same issue in converting to four wheel Wilwood discs, their recommendation for a master cylinder, etc, and having the braking equivalent of dragging my feet on the ground in braking efficiency. I call Wilwood. Try this, try that they say. Mind you, each they suggest costs another $200 odd dollars. Different master, different brake pedal, different this or that. And to top it off Wilwood doesn't assign each customer a case number so that when they call for help the agent can see all the prior suggestions. Nooo, each time you call you get a different agent and get to explain everything all over again, run down the list of prior suggestions all over again.

End of rant. Where I'm at now is running the 15/16 mc, the brake pedal intended for a C10 to get more length (in my 60 Chevy wagon), and switching to EBC brakes yellow pads to see if we'll get even remotely the level of braking that should be expected.

[jetmech442]

I figured I'd run your system through my brake force calculator, but all I can find on Baer's website is "4-piston (S4) caliper that offers a piston area comparable to many 6-piston calipers". WTF is that? Jegs and Summit don't have the piston diameters either. If you have the piston diameters for front/back then we can see what the brake force numbers are and how they compare(also what pad your running. I imagine they would be fine...but not posting the details on their own website makes me kind weary.

[dhutton]

I had a similar experience with manual brakes. Found that I needed an aggressive pad to get decent performance.

Haven’t used manual brakes since. There’s a reason the OEMs use power brakes imho. Not saying they can’t work, just saying it takes more effort and smarts than I am able to bring to the problem.

Don

[Rb_69camaro]

Are Baer/Wilwood products up to the task of real spiritied driving or just cruising? How hard do you fellas drive your cars? What do you think about this kit?

https://www.alcon.co.uk/products/motorsport/race/brake-kits/corvette-c5-c6/

[protour_chevelle]

Before new comers read this post and get a bad taste in their mouth over BAER and Wilwood... BAER brakes and the Wilwood brand are ran on some of the top performing pro-touring cars in both manual and power assisted variations. Like mentioned about by pro-touring f-body.... Its an entire package. Hydroboost is popular because you can throw it on the worlds crappiest brake combo and the pressure behind it will grab almost anything. Some hot rodders seem to think that blowing on the brake pedal and watching your drink hit the dash is "high performance". Its not, at all lol.

Start with the basics. Master cylinder was bench bled? are you using the proper hole on the brake pedal arm? Have the pads been properly bedded in?

[protour_chevelle]

Are Baer/Wilwood products up to the task of real spiritied driving or just cruising? How hard do you fellas drive your cars? What do you think about this kit?

https://www.alcon.co.uk/products/motorsport/race/brake-kits/corvette-c5-c6/

Alcon is gangster. More than most of us would ever need.

[cwylie]

I had a Baer 14 inch t4 kit in the front, 13 inch ss4 rear with Wilwood master and booster and I was never super impressed. The Wilwood master was a total pain to bleed. I went a 6s 14-inch kit in the front with a manual baer remaster and I really like it. I got used to manual brakes it would be tough to go back. It takes more pressure no doubt but the feel is far superior. The Baer Remaster took me half the time to bleed as the wilwood.

[Rb_69camaro]

Alcon is gangster. More than most of us would ever need.

Well if it gives me more track time then I would consider it. Im still setting up my car and I realize I have invested far less into my braking system when compared to other areas.

Whats your rear brake set up like on your chevelle? I have a Strange floater kit as well. The options seem limited. I wanted just a slotted rotor to match my front discs but the dealer for Strange said they only offer the drilled discs which I dont like and dont match.


196896

[5ohphil]

Brakes are a system. It's been said a million times. But ultimately what stops the car? The contact patch of the tires.
The OP is asking about issues with pedal travel and stopping power, then everything in the system needs to be verified that it is A: functioning as it should and B: the correct part for the application and usage to begin with.

Are Baer and Wilwood up to the task? Wilwood and Baer make a variety of brake components, from entry level to top competition. In the same way that a Chevy Cobalt and a Corvette Z06 are sold by the same company, one cannot fairly compare a Baer PBR-type sliding pad guided caliper to a fixed type racing caliper. Same company, vastly different products sold to customers with different needs.

[protour_chevelle]

Well if it gives me more track time then I would consider it. Im still setting up my car and I realize I have invested far less into my braking system when compared to other areas.

Whats your rear brake set up like on your chevelle? I have a Strange floater kit as well. The options seem limited. I wanted just a slotted rotor to match my front discs but the dealer for Strange said they only offer the drilled discs which I dont like and dont match.


Because I did not like the floater brake options on the strange and quick performance offerings, Limited to Wilwood, which theres nothing wrong with wilwood, I simply dont like being cornered. I did the strange rear with millerbuilt floater setup. This allows me to run any brake kit that fits on a c6 Vette. Im running a C6 Z06 Brembo kit with floating rotors.

197133

[a67]

And don't forget to bed the pads. They need to be mated to the rotors before they will work. And as mentioned, need aggressive pads for manual brakes.

It takes some time to bed the pads, but don't ignore it. I've had to re-bed pads after light/easy driving and/or letting the car sit. Once bedded, re-bedding them is easy, just stand on the pedal a few times then drive a bit to let the rotors cool.

Bob.