issues with DSE front suspension on a 2nd Gen Fbody

[MAbird]

I am hoping someone has some experience with DSE front suspension and can shed some light on my issues. I bought a 79 firebird that already had tubular control arms (unknown brand) and comp engineering drag shocks and what I assume was stock springs . I wanted to lower the car and make it handle better. I purchased a speed kit 1 w/o the control arms choosing the Big Block 2" drop springs.

https://www.detroitspeed.com/70-81-camaro-firebird-front-suspension-components/speed-kit-1-front-suspension-kit-1970-81-camaro-firebird-031307-group

as well as the speed kit 1 for the rear with the 3" drop

https://www.detroitspeed.com/70-81-camaro-firebird-rear-suspension-components/speed-kit-1-rear-suspension-kit-1970-81-camaro-firebird-041637-group

I put it all in and the car is sitting 2" higher in the front! I talked to DSE and we thought it was maybe because of the big block 2" drop springs w/ the car being a 400 poncho w/ aluminum intake, radiator, heads, no AC, etc that those springs were too much. I then purchased the SBC springs and put them in and there is absolutely no difference still 2" taller in the front.... The ONLY thing that i can come up with is the control arms so I ordered DSE control arms about a month ago... I was just told it would be another couple weeks for those to come in. I am really not convinced that the control arms are going to fix it...

Is there anyone running this same setup w/ the DSE arms that can share experience? For wheels and tires I am running 285/40/18 nitto 555 in the rear which = 27" diameter and 255/45/18 in front = 27" exactly.

I really really want this car's stance right. I would hate for it to even be level but I can live w/ that but would prefer a very slight rake.

ANY help is appreciated!!!

[MAbird]

190340 here is a picture on the 4 post lift. it's sitting nose high w/ that Carolina lean. not what i am looking for!!!!!!

[Hotwire]

Are you torqueing the front control arm bushings with the front suspension drooping? Have you put any miles on the setup to see if things settled out?

On my 64 I'd clocked the spring to the stop in the control arms and it sat way too high. Come to find out I needed to clock the spring to the pocket in the frame. Made a serious difference. You can see the spring was at the 5 o'clock position when it needed to be seated at the 8 o'clock position:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/1024191823_resize_47_zpss563borc.jpg

One other thing you can do if everything else is exhausted is cut the springs. Our GM cars have a 2:1 ratio with the front springs as explained in the video below. I followed this video and dialed in my car easily.

https://www.globalwest.net/video-trimming-coil-spring-ride-height-tutorial-global-west.html

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2021/06/50964601477_ac46f36a80_c-1.jpg

[dhutton]

I am guessing the DSE control arms have a dropped spring pocket and the ones you currently have do not.

Don

[MAbird]

Don, the ones i have do have a dropped pocket but i couldn't get out of DSE how much of a drop theirs have I will find out soon enough. DSE says there control arms are stock style whatever that means

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bushings were torqued with the car on the 4 post lift. I will be sure to look at the clocking I thought we had it right but that is a good place to start thank you!

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I havent put many miles a couple rips up and down the block but they have been in for more than a month (the 2" SBC springs) and haven't budged.

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and yes last resort was to cut the stock springs. You cant cut DSE springs they are progressive springs. But I know its going to ride like ****...

[dontlifttoshift]

General comments, springs can sit for 5 years and never settle but can drop 2" or more in a few hundred miles. Not always, but can.

I don't see where the DSE springs are progressive, I don't see any reason you can't cut them but I don't recommend that until you have given them time to settle.

The difference in rate between cut and uncut springs is very, very small. Typically the "I cut the springs and it rides like crap" comes from crashing the bumpstops all the time because you are closer to them and the spring rate didn't increase enough for the given ride height.

[MAbird]

Thanks for the advice! I already have 3 sets of springs so it wont hurt to cut the stockers down a few inches and maybe change the bump stops to a shorter one? The DSE certainly look progressive vs the stock the coil spacing is not the same top to bottom. It's not the same as what it shows in the picture on the website.


General comments, springs can sit for 5 years and never settle but can drop 2" or more in a few hundred miles. Not always, but can.

I don't see where the DSE springs are progressive, I don't see any reason you can't cut them but I don't recommend that until you have given them time to settle.

The difference in rate between cut and uncut springs is very, very small. Typically the "I cut the springs and it rides like crap" comes from crashing the bumpstops all the time because you are closer to them and the spring rate didn't increase enough for the given ride height.

[BMR Sales]

Don, the ones i have do have a dropped pocket but i couldn't get out of DSE how much of a drop theirs have I will find out soon enough. DSE says there control arms are stock style whatever that means


"Stock" Style would be that the Spring Pocket would be in the Factory location.

if you have a Drop Spring pocket and a Drop Spring, your car should be on the ground. My Guess is the Suspension is in a Bind

[MAbird]

From what I can see the DSE is a drop spring pocket looks identical to the tubular arms in the car now. in the car are about 2" deep. Not sure what constitutes stock vs drop spring pocket? You may have a point though we never touched the control arms through this whole ordeal we only removed and re-install the springs. the DSE arms are on the way anyway so I will be sure to install them and make sure they are torqued correctly. I just can't see that is going to fix a 2" difference in front to back. I am measuring at the rocker to the ground by the way I dont know if there is a better way to measure.
190380


"Stock" Style would be that the Spring Pocket would be in the Factory location.

if you have a Drop Spring pocket and a Drop Spring, your car should be on the ground. My Guess is the Suspension is in a Bind

[MAbird]

so i gave some bad info above I mentioned we torqued the bushings on the 4 post but we never touched them. I wasn't present for the spring swaps.

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Does dropped spring pocket mean the top of the cup is not flush with the tube vs if it was not dropped it would be?

[MAbird]

From DSE for the 2nd gen Fbody. Sorry should have done some better research first. So the DSE aren't dropped I don't think the current ones are either.

The geometry features include additional positive caster and a stock location spring pocket.

[MAbird]

Update the DSE control arms fixed the problem. thanks for all the advice