$2500 to spend on suspension. I Don't know where to start. 67 El Camino

[brrymnvette]

I have about $2500 set aside for the suspension on my 67 el camino. As it sits currently it has poly bushings throughout, boxed rear control arms, boxed frame, stock everything else. My father started a frame off resto and it's all new steering and suspension, just stock. I will be LS2/6l90e swapping it this year. I want to do a 9" rear too. My plan is to drive my kids to hockey practice and enjoy it on twisty back roads. I keep reading conflicting info on of front coilovers are a good idea or not. I'm not sure how to know if one brand upper/lower front control arms are better than the other to justify the hundreds of dollars in price difference (QA1 vs DSE)

[BonzoHansen]

Call UMI

[Tsaints1115]

Yes, some brands DO justify the added expense when brand A fits like a glove and brand B needs to involve grinding ,hammering, or other compromises.
I went with RideTech on my wagon. Awesome stuff, all the way down to even how it's packaged for shipping. I wanted a few braces that they don't make so I sourced them from another well know company, not cheap either. EVERY one of their parts needed me to do something to make it fit. Some I didn't even bother trying and never installed. Piss poor instructions. Missing hardware because they just chucked everything in a box in sandwich bags of all things.

Needless to say you can see where your extra money goes.

[XLexusTech]

maybe https://www.hotchkis.net/product/new-hotchkis-coilovers-manual-oe-rear-end-4-pack-1964-1967-a-body-74410101/?mk=&yr=&md=&sm=

[derekf]

Does your budget include doing brakes as well? May want to figure that into what you're doing as well.

[brrymnvette]

Brakes are next. I'll be doing rear disc when I do the 9" and a larger front disc with CTSV calipers most likely.

[Aussie]

Ridetech Streetgrip if you are planning to drive mainly on the street

[Hotwire]

Check this thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/135044-Looking-for-GM-A-body-daily-driver-suspension-advice

Just did 1,008 mile round trip to visit wrenching buddies in GA, went around the Suches Loop, wouldn't change anything on my setup except for better tires, setup performed perfectly and was comfortable 300 mile highway ride to and from.

[BMR Sales]

I have Kits or can create a Custom Package within your Budget Range

https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&vehicleid=14&maincatid=43

[jetmech442]

Hey 'vette,
If you're looking for just a vendors package then any of the suggestions up top will do. I've never had enough money to buy everything from a vendor all at once, so I generally buy parts that make the most difference.

I'll offer a few opinions...
The key thing is to get your roll centers, and cast/camber corrected. Caster Camber can be obtained with upper a arms. I like the SPC adjustable uppers, but I'm pretty sure you get in the same corrected ballpark when you go with a static tubular from UMI/Ridetech/BMR.

If I had the money, I would splurge on a set of AFX spindles and ride off into the sunset a happy man. They are the only ones I've seen that do everything you want plus improve ackerman. I run stock spindles with taller upper and lower ball joints from Howes, SPC uppers and (as of last winter, lowers from SPC too.). I love the car with this setup, but again, those AFX's....mmmmmm

I've never been a fan of coilovers. maybe real high end ones (not QA1) make sense for cars that compete, but most a bodies aren't actually competing. They're usually having fun on backroads and autocrossing. I'm sure there's guys that have different opinions, but I think money is better spent elsewhere.

Shocks however, are the best place to drop some coin. some quality double adjustables are expensive, but allow your car to behave exactly as you want it to. I run Varishock 2's, and I'd never use anything else.

I never plan to a have a different fun car, me and this 442 have been through waay too much to upgrade. But I'll tell you, after 15 years of driving it, the day that I bolted on the Fays2Watts link, it changed my perception of what this car was capable of. I have a post on here about my experience with having 2 roll centers simultaneously, and how it didn't affect me until I had the roll center adjusted to the extremes. I never noticed how much the rear laterally shifted until the watts locked that thing in place. I've got a couple old Navy buds with A bodies and after they drove mine with the watts they saw how stable the rear end was when diving into a corner.

I hope this was helpful.

[brrymnvette]

Thanks for the responses everyone. That was a great response jetmech442!

[dhutton]

I built my 64 GTO with AFX spindles, SPC arms, SPC springs, Hellwig sway bars, Currietrac rear arms, Turn One steering box, and Bilstein shocks. The ride and handling were excellent. Great thing about AFX spindles is you can run affordable C5/6 brakes.

Don

[stab6902]

What type/size tires will you be running? A suspension optimized for 15" Radial T/A's will be a lot different that one setup for wide, low profile 200TW tires.

I'm generally not a fan of the "hybrid" style coil overs since they put side load on the shock shaft and are hard on lower control arms (unless you get ones that are specifically designed for that type of setup). I'd run factory style shocks and springs unless you want to go "all the way" with a true coilover setup with weld-in mounts, but that'd put you way over budget.

I'm also not a fan of throwing aftermarket control arms at everything. If your control arms are rebuilt and in good shape, there's no real reason to change them unless you're going for >5 degrees caster in the front. Tubular control arms look cool, but they're usually heavier than stock, sometimes don't include provisions for bumpstops, etc. Polyurethane bushings wouldn't have been my first choice, especially in the back, but you can get away with them with the flexy stock rear arms.

My focus would be on getting springs and sway bars with rates appropriate for your tires, weight, and intended use, and then buy a nice set of adjustable shocks and carefully dial them in to your liking.

The AFX spindles are great but probably out of budget. Tall ball joints will get you many of the same benefits.

[BMR Sales]

Tubular control arms look cool, but they're usually heavier than stock, sometimes don't include provisions for bumpstops, etc. Polyurethane bushings wouldn't have been my first choice, especially in the back, but you can get away with them with the flexy stock rear arms.



Our Tubular A-Arms are Lighter and Stronger than Stock, have Bumpstops and Billet OffSet Cross-shafts

Why is it that you don't like Polyurethane? Poly is Stronger than Rubber and not meant to Bind like Rubber. Everyplace that we use a Poly Bushing, there will be a Zerk ( Grease Fitting) so that they Rotate properly without Noise

[stab6902]

Our Tubular A-Arms are Lighter and Stronger than Stock, have Bumpstops and Billet OffSet Cross-shafts

Why is it that you don't like Polyurethane? Poly is Stronger than Rubber and not meant to Bind like Rubber. Everyplace that we use a Poly Bushing, there will be a Zerk ( Grease Fitting) so that they Rotate properly without Noise

To start I'm a long time BMR customer (I recommend your springs to everyone) and I like your A-arms better than most of the others on the market. I totally believe yours are stronger than stock. What's the weight of yours vs stock out of curiosity? Is the lower ball joint pushed forward at all to help add caster? I personally prefer taller bump stops like the ZQ8 bump stops the SPC arms use, but I understand there are different schools of thought on that.

I've had greaseable polyurethane bushings on a couple cars and every one of them has squeaked eventually. Most of the time regreasing them helped with the noise, but it usually came back. I also have general stiction and cold flow concerns with with poly. Rubber bounces back, while poly "takes a set" much quicker. I've removed polyurethane bushings that were visibly distorted due to cold flow. On the rear of A-bodies especially, the bushings need to be compliant to allow twist without binding. My personal preference is rubber on street cars and delrin if you're spending more time on the track than the street.

These are just my preferences based on my experience.

[BMR Sales]

To start I'm a long time BMR customer (I recommend your springs to everyone) and I like your A-arms better than most of the others on the market. I totally believe yours are stronger than stock. What's the weight of yours vs stock out of curiosity? Is the lower ball joint pushed forward at all to help add caster? I personally prefer taller bump stops like the ZQ8 bump stops the SPC arms use, but I understand there are different schools of thought on that.



The weight savings isn't much, but it is 2-3 lbs per Arm. I have weighed competitor arms that were Really Heavy (like 8 lbs more than ours) Our Caster Change is a combo of uppers & lowers so yes on the position of the BJ

[Hotwire]

I actually measured my suspensions pieces as they were going on if you want the data..

Stock 1964 lower arms are 12.5lbs each. Ebay lowers are 17 lbs each.

[Rod]

I would put you in the streetgrip easy all-around kit and it works great, and the shocks have a million mile warranty.... you can give me a call at the shop tomorrow 931-231-4505 my shop is Suspension Geek , https://suspensiongeek.com/products/1964-1967-ridetech-gm-a-body-streetgrip-system

[stab6902]

I actually measured my suspensions pieces as they were going on if you want the data..

Stock 1964 lower arms are 12.5lbs each. Ebay lowers are 17 lbs each.

That's good info, thanks for sharing!

[Rod]

tube arms are not for weight savings its about the rigidity and strength, factory stuff is weak and flimsy, and the sticker and wider tires we run now stress the factory components, also with tube arms there are some geometry correction(added caster) and assistance that happens (ball joint angle for lowered car), and its not just on old cars, the 5th gen camaros rear arms are super flimsy and the cars benefit greatly from tube replacments (more traction and more predictable direction control)

[BanditDarble]

I have about $2500 set aside for the suspension on my 67 el camino. As it sits currently it has poly bushings throughout, boxed rear control arms, boxed frame, stock everything else. My father started a frame off resto and it's all new steering and suspension, just stock. I will be LS2/6l90e swapping it this year. I want to do a 9" rear too. My plan is to drive my kids to hockey practice and enjoy it on twisty back roads. I keep reading conflicting info on of front coilovers are a good idea or not. I'm not sure how to know if one brand upper/lower front control arms are better than the other to justify the hundreds of dollars in price difference (QA1 vs DSE)

First suggestion is to remove all the poly from the rear control arms. They just make it bind.

As far as the front it depends on if you want a show car front suspension. If so buy a kit from a vendor. If you don't care to wax your control arms one can make your car handle just as well with parts from the Speedway catalog. I'm more familiar with G bodies but the A's need the same improvements. The part numbers are just different.

Speedway also has sphericals for the rear control arms that will allow the rear end to articulate without binding.

For some backroads driving there is no need for coil overs.

[UMI Tech]

$2500

The most important front geometry is to get some spindle height whether through tall ball joints or a tall spindle. At UMI we've been using the Speedway 2" drop spindle as it's also +1.75" taller. The UMI 4056-1 arm is a good fit with that spindle.

Add some Viking front c/o at 550 lb rate.

For the rear, our c/o work great but aren't easily compatible with an eventual 9". You can use our 2" drop springs and some Viking shocks out back.

Add sway bars on both ends and you're set for around the cost you're mentioning.

Hit us at [email protected] with any questions.

ramey

[brrymnvette]

$2500

The most important front geometry is to get some spindle height whether through tall ball joints or a tall spindle. At UMI we've been using the Speedway 2" drop spindle as it's also +1.75" taller. The UMI 4056-1 arm is a good fit with that spindle.

Add some Viking front c/o at 550 lb rate.

For the rear, our c/o work great but aren't easily compatible with an eventual 9". You can use our 2" drop springs and some Viking shocks out back.

Add sway bars on both ends and you're set for around the cost you're mentioning.

Hit us at [email protected] with any questions.

ramey


You talking about this spindle? https://www.speedwaymotors.com/G-Comp-Spindle-GM-AFX-Single,103274.html

[UMI Tech]

You talking about this spindle? https://www.speedwaymotors.com/G-Comp-Spindle-GM-AFX-Single,103274.html

Yes, that exact p/n is for a single though.

[Hotwire]

Here's for both: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/G-Comp-2-Inch-Drop-Performance-Spindles-for-GM-A-F-X-Body-Muscle-Cars,80737.html

Wish I'd known about these when doing my suspension, would have saved money on dropped spindles AND taller ball joints. Speaking of ball joints, 0.5" lower balljoints will lower the car another 1/2" BUT will completely eliminate bumpsteer. Driving around with stock suspension the steering wheel would about rip out of my hand going over bridge abutments, it was a shock first time it happened. Now the car drives better than my DD.

I cannot express how much of a change you will get by going with taller balljoints or spindles. My setup completely changed the driving characteristics of the car. Before I was getting +3 degrees of positive camber on compression. Tires were literally pushing out into the wheel wells and smoking when I was running autocross for fun.

These are pictures that Tim King from UMI/Lateral G took of me on course embarrassing myself @ 2019 Summit Autorama in Atlanta. After that trip I put suspension upgrades at top of my list and man, what a difference.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/.highres/Jeff%20Bowne%2029%20of%2040_resize_6_zpsgfqzkwra.j pg?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/.highres/Jeff%20Bowne%2023%20of%2040_resize_12_zpsbwm9irnu. jpg?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/.highres/59451331_10157518449063643_259123992672075776_o_re size_65_zpsryxn8se3.jpg?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/.highres/59522032_10157518448048643_2141282393829408768_o_r esize_0_zpszfsdlwum.jpg?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill

This was my upper wheel well after that trip, I was smelling rubber during my runs but just assumed it was the rear tires, not the front.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/1013191620_HDR_resize_8_zps4hlregvj.jpg?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill

Stock suspension, removed sway bar, spring, shock, with suspension drooping I zeroed out angle finder, then compressed the suspension. Full +3.5 degrees from full droop to full compression

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/1013191706_resize_94_zpsxxfzypqz.jpg?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill

Here's a windshield wiper view of the run, you can see the car lurching as the front tires were grabbing the wheel wells: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KojEWB45AUo

Now w/ correct geometry I'm getting -3 degrees of camber during compression, car handles great and I'm driving it like I stole it. I just need to get better tires on it, Cooper Zeon are great, but 500 treadwear isn't good for track days.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/Hotwire454/Project%20Salty/1116191152_zpszdxv71wb.jpg?width=450&height=278&fit=bounds&crop=fill

Sorry for the photobucket links.

Here's an after, still need better tires but have brakes and suspension sorted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TIiIjNOkxM

[pannetron]

Lots of great suggestions in this thread. My suggestion is to DEFINITELY spend your money first on the front suspension. Adding positive caster, getting a good negative camber curve, and eliminating bump steer will transform how much fun it is to drive you elco. After front suspension I'd spring for a Turn One steering box.

[67-LS1]

I have Hotchkis upper and lower control arms front and rear. I didn’t weigh them but I can tell you they are substantially heavier than the stock components.
And looking back at my project, I would start with a Lee 12:1 steering box with a 30 lb valve. Then I would really-ask the suspension question with my new available balance. Steering boxes are absolute game changers in these cars.