Any suspension, no matter how poorly designed, can be made to work reasonably well...

[Twentyover]

... if you just stop it from moving. Colin Chapman


And mine is really poorly designed.

I have a mid-70’s European Ford with a true Mac- Fear- son strut (lateral track arm, located fore-aft by front sway bar) front suspension. I’ve had the car for 40 years- When it was new, I did exactly what everyone else was doing, snubbing down the suspension. Until all my front suspension compliance was in tire sidewall flex. Seriously, it handled great- well, it handled OK, but tire’s sucked and most of my friends didn’t know what they were doing. Neither did I.


That was then, now is now


I still like the car, but want it to handle and to ride. Did I mention the only front suspension movement was tire sidewall deformation? Have 2 options- SLA and trying to improve the MacStrut. Fishing for ideas on how top improve the mac strut so I don’t compress my spine w/ every Michigan pothole I hit, or someone tell me to toss the strut and start with some sort of SLA, along w/ recommendations. I’ve been toying with the idea of Mustang II, but am aware of at least some of it’s shortcomings due to short A-Arm length

Any takers? Anyone want to venture into the swamp with me?

[Rod]

lets see what you got

[Twentyover]

lets see what you got

A few pictures of what the stuff looks like

178299

178300

178301


Pictures are off the web, a RHD variant. Hold the monitor up toa mirror and you'll see what my suspension looks like. The car is my avatar, Ask any questions, I'll try to answer more or less intelligently.

Ignore picture below- it wandered into the post accidentally and I can't seem to edit it out

[Twentyover]

Sorry- double post

[Rod]

so... with a removable k member, I guessing the car is a uni body, so a M2 suspension would be easy and you will get more engine compartment room, because you can cut out the big shock towers the struts went up into

[dontlifttoshift]

I gotta believe a MII installed backwards and crooked would be an improvement.......is the sway really a tension link for the lower control arm?

How small is this car? MII hub to hub is 56.5"

[Rod]

I gotta believe a MII installed backwards and crooked would be an improvement

:lmao:

[mikedc]

I'm gonna go against the grain here. Or at least call for thinking twice about it.

Muscle car guys are primed to think "Put a M2 front end on it" as a knee-jerk reaction. That stock suspension (in the pics) looks unfamiliar and weak.

But it's really only "weak" in terms of 3500-lb cars. On smaller cars that design is not uncommon. It generally holds up fine.

"Unfamiliar" is not a great reason to spend thousands of dollars, do a lot of heavy fabrication, and add weight.


An aftermarket M2 front end is probably superior on paper. But how much do you need it? How bad is the stock alignment & geometry? Are you wanting to run wide tires on this car? How is the aftermarket support for that stock front end?

[Falcon64]

Greg, One alternative would be MOVE OUT OF MIGHIGAN (joking....have a lot of aussie budies at Ford and GM there)

Second suggestion: a buddy with CONSIDERABLE exprience has one under construction with SBF. I will get pics this afternoon.
Meanwhile....until i speak to Rob........Mustang11 is not the way to go....the bodyshell was not engineered to take chassis rail loads, and welding sleeves to cure this is B.S.
I think he cut the inserts out of the struts, found a Koni insert that is compatible. Machine retaining rings for the struts and spring seats for a decent Eibach coil-over spring (from Rod Prouty above) and i'm guessing poly bushings for the sway bar.
For rollcenter improvement, move the lower arm inner pickup point up half inch (this is max without cutting the rail).

More info to come......don't know what he did for steering rack.

fwiw....I'm a retired ex-GM body designer....now fabricator to keep my sanity. Capri was common here in Oz.

mikedc.....props for the breath of fresh air!

Jim Grant
Melbourne Australia
(was SFO '06 thru 13)

[Twentyover]

so... with a removable k member, I guessing the car is a uni body, so a M2 suspension would be easy and you will get more engine compartment room, because you can cut out the big shock towers the struts went up into

Car is a 76 Ford (Mercury) Capri, it is unibody. The lateral track arms are only 9" wide, the the entire Mac Strut is outside the frame rails, so that advantage of strut elimination usually present really does not apply so much here,

Reason I'm hesitating on an M2 is that my understanding is that the control arms are too short. I did a search here and a member known as sinned was beating up on people who claimed the M2 had pretty good geometry. Dave Pozi apparently agreed (based on my interpretation of his comments.) He also worked with a M2 owner member Alcino to make improvements. And II Much member John (last name I don't remember- Parson(?)) i seem to recali ripped out an installed M2 in his Chevy II for a Katz designed suspension, seem to reason was because control arms too short causing camber gain issues.

What I don't want to do is rip out the existing way too stiff suspension and replace it with a suspension that needs to be way too stiff to handle well

I may be making perfection the enemy of the good here- what say the hive mind?



I gotta believe a MII installed backwards and crooked would be an improvement.......is the sway really a tension link for the lower control arm?

How small is this car? MII hub to hub is 56.5"

My understanding is that the original design of the MacPherson strut uses the sway bar as a link for the lower control arm. The Cortina (which the Capri is based on) also used this deal. So yes, it really is a tension arm.

Some have added a separate tension or compression strut to isolate the sway function from locatiion function

Capri front track is 53". According to the self appointed Capri expert in the US (I do give him credit, he knows ALOT of ****) nominal WMS to WMS is 56.25". I was running 15 x 7 w/ 205/50-15 ILO the stock 13 x 5 w/ 185/70-13. So maybe by careful wheel selection I may be able to put a M2 and similar tire under a stock fender- That is one of the hard goals here, no flares, although I will roll a bat if needed


I'm gonna go against the grain here. Or at least call for thinking twice about it.

Muscle car guys are primed to think "Put a M2 front end on it" as a knee-jerk reaction. That stock suspension (in the pics) looks unfamiliar and weak.

But it's really only "weak" in terms of 3500-lb cars. On smaller cars that design is not uncommon. It generally holds up fine.

"Unfamiliar" is not a great reason to spend thousands of dollars, do a lot of heavy fabrication, and add weight.


An aftermarket M2 front end is probably superior on paper. But how much do you need it? How bad is the stock alignment & geometry? Are you wanting to run wide tires on this car? How is the aftermarket support for that stock front end?


mikedc- I''ll respond to the q's first

How bad is the stock geometry- never plotted camber vs dive or roll- but like all Mac Struts, you need alot of static camber to get good cornering grip, which screws up braking. And you need to snub down vertical suspension movement to keep camber from going crazy stupid. I can change alignment, I can change pickup points, but I can't change fundamental aspects and limitations of the MacStrut design

The reason for my question was that I'm no longer willing to beat up my kidneys to get good handling. If anyone knows how to achieve softer suspension travel while controlling camber I'm all ears- I have a suspension in the car, am willing to change components if I can get a more compliant ride and maintain the same or similar handling.

This was a small tire car- came w/ 165/80-13, w/ 185/70-13 option. I have been running 205/50-15 front and 225/50-15 rear. I would like to go up to 225/50-15 front- so it remains a small tire car at best.

Car will weight about 2850 lbs until you plop my fat ass into it.

Essentially stock parts are available, but the guys in the UK won't ship to the US due to liability concerns. In the US, support is lean.

I'm not opposed to an M2 front end- I've bought most of the parts for one! But before I tear the thing apart, I wanted to hit pause for a minute and make sure I'm not overlooking options. If that means tossing the M2, I'm OK with that. If that means using the M2, I'm OK with that too.

M2 parts I have- Wilwood tall M2 uprights, SPC upper and lower A arms, and Kore 3 hubs. Again, no one is holding a gun to my head saying I need to use these just because I have them.

Tjanks all for your input. Sorry so long winded

[Twentyover]

Greg, One alternative would be MOVE OUT OF MIGHIGAN (joking....have a lot of aussie budies at Ford and GM there)

Don't tempt me, Jim. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, then moved to California in my 20's. Career moved me here 16 years ago- can barely wait to escape. Also retired, ex Calsonic (now Marelli) HVAC development engineer


Second suggestion: a buddy with CONSIDERABLE exprience has one under construction with SBF. I will get pics this afternoon.
Meanwhile....until i speak to Rob........Mustang11 is not the way to go....the bodyshell was not engineered to take chassis rail loads, and welding sleeves to cure this is B.S.
I think he cut the inserts out of the struts, found a Koni insert that is compatible. Machine retaining rings for the struts and spring seats for a decent Eibach coil-over spring (from Rod Prouty above) and i'm guessing poly bushings for the sway bar.
For rollcenter improvement, move the lower arm inner pickup point up half inch (this is max without cutting the rail).

More info to come......don't know what he did for steering rack.

fwiw....I'm a retired ex-GM body designer....now fabricator to keep my sanity. Capri was common here in Oz.

mikedc.....props for the breath of fresh air!

Jim Grant
Melbourne Australia
(was SFO '06 thru 13)

Plan for me is to keep the Cologne engine- except as a 4.0, T5Z, and an LSD and 3.44's in the Atlas axle. Air, cruise- all the stuff we couldn't afford in the 70's (I've owned the car since 1978.) am currently constructing a torque arm rear- we'll see if that works.

If I go M2, there is one variation I was planning on- Rather than a short shock transferring load to the frame rail stamping, I would use a long coilover and feed spring loads into the MacStrut spring pocket per the original design. Since the upper control arm loads are a fraction of the lower control arm, it should load the chassis similar to a Mac Strut. Probably give me the worst of both designs.

I have seen the steering rack moved up so a notch was required in the frame to clear the tie rod. since that is in front of the Xmember it doesn't scare me

The question will be, does you're compadre's changes achieve my stated goal- retain handling while improving suspension compliance

Looking forward to pictures, if your friend doesn't mind maybe he can send his e-mail address to galanf at juno dot com so I can communicate directly

[mikedc]

The mac strut design has been used on some pretty hot cars over the years. The camber gain is never great but there is more to handling than that issue.

Have you driven this car with some really good modern shocks + aftermarket sway bars? In theory that should help control the body lean so you aren't grappling with the front end's weak camber gain all the time. The shock valving should be resisting those kinds of slower G-forces and only "unlocking" on sudden hits (read: bumps and potholes). Ideally the body lean should be limited by the shocks/sways and not by hitting the bumpstops. That's not always feasible depending on the car & ride height.

A 225 tire doesn't seem very narrow for a car that small. Between that and the larger rim diameter, I can see why the weak camber gain is bugging you.

BTW, do you know what the front roll center height is? If it's really low then that will magnify the body leaning problems. (Too high brings a different set of problems.)

[Twentyover]

The mac strut design has been used on some pretty hot cars over the years. The camber gain is never great but there is more to handling than that issue.

I guess my focus on the camber gain issue is due to the short track arm length- IIRC it's about 9", I think many of the 'hot cars' are about 50% longer than that. The short length causes more transverse displacement of the bottom of the strut, adding more positive camber in compression than a longer arm adds. Hence the need for more static camber and it's woes


Have you driven this car with some really good modern shocks + aftermarket sway bars? In theory that should help control the body lean so you aren't grappling with the front end's weak camber gain all the time. The shock valving should be resisting those kinds of slower G-forces and only "unlocking" on sudden hits (read: bumps and potholes). Ideally the body lean should be limited by the shocks/sways and not by hitting the bumpstops. That's not always feasible depending on the car & ride height.

Have not driven w/ modern shocks- part of the issue is parts availability. For instance, Rock Auto (not that Rock Auto is the be all and end all) doesn't list any replacement front strut inserts or cartridges. I'm running a set of Bilstein sport inserts from 1980 (about 23K miles on them) and I believe I've probably damaged them, based on road feel.

The car came with a 5/8" front bar and a 3/16" rear bar. I have a 1" front bar and an adjustable 3/4" rear bar on it now. These are parts from Quickor, back when they were noted for their sway bars

For the current suspension design to work, I think I need to get a shorter strut insert, cut down the length of the strut housing, and add a spacer to put between the track arm and the strut, so I can get a down and out angle rather than the current up and out angle. May need to hear from friend Falcon64 from Oz on this. I certainly need different springs, as the current springs have me on the bump stops


A 225 tire doesn't seem very narrow for a car that small. Between that and the larger rim diameter, I can see why the weak camber gain is bugging you.

BTW, do you know what the front roll center height is? If it's really low then that will magnify the body leaning problems. (Too high brings a different set of problems.)

Do not know FRCH. I believe, based on my memory of angle of the track arms, it's somewhere near the center of the earth, so a big moment arm- except i'm on the bump stops, so it's only loading the tire


As previously indicated, I'm pretty willing to stay with the struts front end- If I can get it to work for me

[mikedc]

I guess my focus on the camber gain issue is due to the short track arm length- IIRC it's about 9", I think many of the 'hot cars' are about 50% longer than that. The short length causes more transverse displacement of the bottom of the strut, adding more positive camber in compression than a longer arm adds. Hence the need for more static camber and it's woes

Simpler FRCH question - where are the lower control arms at ride height? Parallel to the ground? A few degrees slanted one way or the other? It sounds like raising that front RC would pay off.

9-inch lower arms is pretty damn short. That makes the geometry's weaknesses more of a PITA because you get farther into them.

Is this a solid rear axle car?


Falcon64 said this about the front RC. It sounds like the voice of experience:


For rollcenter improvement, move the lower arm inner pickup point up half inch (this is max without cutting the rail).

Of course if you move the lower arms then it will be goofing with the steering's bump steer. The short answer is you want to raise the steering rack up by the same amount that you raise up the inner arm pivots.

Some guys also raise RCs by lowering the outer end of the lower arm. IIRC that's usually done with aftermarket ball joints on the control arm (and tie rod?) I don't know what the options are for your chassis.



Have not driven w/ modern shocks- part of the issue is parts availability. For instance, Rock Auto (not that Rock Auto is the be all and end all) doesn't list any replacement front strut inserts or cartridges. I'm running a set of Bilstein sport inserts from 1980 (about 23K miles on them) and I believe I've probably damaged them, based on road feel.

The car came with a 5/8" front bar and a 3/16" rear bar. I have a 1" front bar and an adjustable 3/4" rear bar on it now. These are parts from Quickor, back when they were noted for their sway bars

For the current suspension design to work, I think I need to get a shorter strut insert, cut down the length of the strut housing, and add a spacer to put between the track arm and the strut, so I can get a down and out angle rather than the current up and out angle. May need to hear from friend Falcon64 from Oz on this. I certainly need different springs, as the current springs have me on the bump stops


A new set of corner springs/shocks is a lot cheaper and easier than a Mustang 2 front end conversion. A roll-center change probably costs more labor than money. And you've already got improved sway bars for both ends. I vote to try re-habbing the stock front end and see how it turns out.

Look at it this way - if parts for that car are so hard to get in North America, then fresh struts might even be resellable if you decide to go M2 in the end.

[Twentyover]

Simpler FRCH question - where are the lower control arms at ride height? Parallel to the ground? A few degrees slanted one way or the other? It sounds like raising that front RC would pay off.

9-inch lower arms is pretty damn short. That makes the geometry's weaknesses more of a PITA because you get farther into them.

Is this a solid rear axle car?


Falcon64 said this about the front RC. It sounds like the voice of experience:

At current ride height, the ball joint (outer pivot of the track arm) is at roughly the same height as the inner pivot, so FRCH will be just above ground level static and go underground in compression.

Went out and rough measured- inner pivot to ball joint pivot center is just about 9.5"

Solid axle rear

Agree w/ yhe Falcon


Of course if you move the lower arms then it will be goofing with the steering's bump steer. The short answer is you want to raise the steering rack up by the same amount that you raise up the inner arm pivots.

Some guys also raise RCs by lowering the outer end of the lower arm. IIRC that's usually done with aftermarket ball joints on the control arm (and tie rod?) I don't know what the options are for your chassis.

Track arms are forgings,w/ integrated ball joints, generally ball joints are not considered serviceable, Never cut one up to see how it could be removed and replaced. There are aftermarket modified track arms for camber adjustment

178356 178357
putted around designing a spacer between the bakk joint and track arm.

moving the rack would not pose significant issues




A new set of corner springs/shocks is a lot cheaper and easier than a Mustang 2 front end conversion. A roll-center change probably costs more labor than money. And you've already got improved sway bars for both ends. I vote to try re-habbing the stock front end and see how it turns out.

Look at it this way - if parts for that car are so hard to get in North America, then fresh struts might even be resellable if you decide to go M2 in the end.

I did find a set of Konis, 86 1835Sport that would work. They're listed as 'Reasonable Ride' in the description. Could probably be into inserts & coilover struts for maybe $500-600

[Falcon64]

Greg......images are attached. Still digesting mikedc and your posts from yesterday. ...will get back in an hour or so with any earth shattering revelations.

178358178359178360

[mikedc]

Front RC height is near ground level . . . solid axle rear . . .

What's the rear suspension on this thing? Leaf springs? I'm thinking about where the rear RC height is.

If that axle is on leaf springs then you should have a pretty tall rear RC. Like at/above the center of the rear wheels. That means the car has a pretty steep overall roll axis. Raising the front RC a few inches would be a plus IMO. Give the corner struts some more leverage to control that body roll. Get the front & rear RCs closer together.

[Falcon64]

Greg....
The Capri I'm referring to has been engine swapped, prepped and painted but not assembled yet.
That limits much more detail that i can put in text......hard to compare different settings etc.
BUT.....
- Rob's ride height has been established with current model Mustang GT alloy wheels (Torque Thrust D ripoffs).
- geometry has been put thru CAD package.
- Rob will use poly bushings and donuts on the sway bar. I
would put a rod end or clevis in place of the donut joint.
- being a strut car owner you will be more than aware of the
limited backspacing/sidewall issue. Need to use the smallest
dia spring.
- get rid of the rear bar.
- subject to ride height.....move the lower arm inner point up as much as the subframe will take. Lower arm should be slightly downhill at the wheel. Rob has half-assed this aspect and says he will do it after assembly.
- bump steer it before moving the rack (don't assume half inch up with arm equals half inch up for rack) that era of production was compromised by corporate constraints just like u said....carry-over Cortina parts.

Have u researched Cologne Capri or South Africa Perana geometry?

BTW....Calsonic recently closed down a plant here in Melbourne. I guess they were supplying Toyota who stopped production in Oz.
Have u worked with Alan Robins, purchasing/tech guy from Air International? ..a long time friend.

[mikedc]

This is a free calculator for front-view suspension geometry. It's pretty quick & easy to use. It starts off in control arms mode but you can switch it to mac struts in the 'frame' settings.

http://vsusp.com

[Twentyover]

Front RC height is near ground level . . . solid axle rear . . .

What's the rear suspension on this thing? Leaf springs? I'm thinking about where the rear RC height is.

If that axle is on leaf springs then you should have a pretty tall rear RC. Like at/above the center of the rear wheels. That means the car has a pretty steep overall roll axis. Raising the front RC a few inches would be a plus IMO. Give the corner struts some more leverage to control that body roll. Get the front & rear RCs closer together.

Currently leafs

Building a torque arm rear based on the Mustang Performance Handling book by Mathias. I can put a panhard on and control RRCH a little better

[Twentyover]

Greg....
The Capri I'm referring to has been engine swapped, prepped and painted but not assembled yet.

Sounds familiar- Mines on stands w/ no rear axle and the front hubs are being redrilled for 5 x 4.5


That limits much more detail that i can put in text......hard to compare different settings etc.
BUT.....
- Rob's ride height has been established with current model Mustang GT alloy wheels (Torque Thrust D ripoffs).
- geometry has been put thru CAD package.
- Rob will use poly bushings and donuts on the sway bar. I
would put a rod end or clevis in place of the donut joint.
- being a strut car owner you will be more than aware of the limited backspacing/sidewall issue. Need to use the smallest dia spring.
- get rid of the rear bar.
- subject to ride height.....move the lower arm inner point up as much as the subframe will take. Lower arm should be slightly downhill at the wheel. Rob has half-assed this aspect and says he will do it after assembly.
- bump steer it before moving the rack (don't assume half inch up with arm equals half inch up for rack) that era of production was compromised by corporate constraints just like u said....carry-over Cortina parts.

Have u researched Cologne Capri or South Africa Perana geometry?

I need to select a tire- think I've locked on 15 x 7 wheel, larger diameter looks weird in the small wheel opening, would also be a travel limiter
I see Rob is using a 350 lb/in 2.5" diameter Eibach. Who made his coilover kit, or is it assembled from bits? Do you know the strut insert he's using?
If I keep the strut deal, I plan to move the inboard pivot as high as I can, subject to the constraint of the frame stamping. I would plan to bump steer after the track arm is relocated

Have not researched Cologne or Perana variants. The Cologne (I assume you mean the RS2600 and RS3100) cars, as homologation specials, had a harder edge than I want this car to be.

Has Rob thought about a separate tension strut or a compression strut on his build? I am thinking if you isolate location control from motion control it may free up binding in the swaybar pass thru to the track arm and the track arm pivot bush




BTW....Calsonic recently closed down a plant here in Melbourne. I guess they were supplying Toyota who stopped production in Oz.
Have u worked with Alan Robins, purchasing/tech guy from Air International? ..a long time friend.


Calsonic was purchased in 2017 by KKR, an investment firm. I think they want it to become something like a Valeo that supplies various types of automotive products. Last year KKR bought Magneti Marelli from FCA, and merged the two under the Marelli name (yeah, like who'se going to trust Italian electrics? When I friend said Alfa drivers preferred cars with Lucas gear to Magneti Marelli, it's saying something :) ) because of better worldwide name recognition.

Surprised if Calsonic was supplying Toyota- They seem to be married to Denso, an evil competitor to Calsonic :)


Mo' latter

[Twentyover]

Think this my be directed more toward Falcon64, but if any f you have any thoughts please chime in

Some European racers have used compression struts to isolate the track arm locate away from the anti-sway bar. The ASB then has the singe funtion of roll resistance, rather than both roll resistance AND fire/aft location of the trackarm.

[Falcon64]

Hey Greg......the Capri I'm referring to is an inheritance from the customer's father so rebuilding it to a cruiser has priority....repackaging the ARB was too extreme and minor benefits on the street. It's looking good in blue/white like the Zakspeed cars.

Once the ride height and wheel/tire package was established, the struts were cut down, Koni inserts installed and I machined new caps with metric threads ....42x1.0 I think.?
Your Koni guy can find the correct insert easily cos there's not many to choose from!
The strut tube was cut down behind the spring seat adjusting sleeve, that way the sleeve spans and reinforces the weld. Cutting a section out retains the original internal top thread. Of course you need a spacer UNDER the insert. The top camber plate is a generic aftermarket.
BTW....my 64 Falcon in my avatar has Chevy SS front struts and rack and pinion steering......along with a mild 350...yes 350 SBC. The steering column brace, master cylinder and pedals went straight in uncut! I fabbed up new towers in the original Ford openings with the world's only perfect triangle strut brace....cos Ford distributor usually gets in the way. Still waiting for a custom ARB to be fabbed up. Registration as soon as covid allows.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58420&highlight=Falcon

Magneti Marelli and Lucas have the same reputation down here....that's mental torture to go ahead and buy an Alfa.... THEN deal with the choice between MM and the Prince of Darkness.
An early aluminum GTA would be worth it tho....with Bosch or Delco conversion:evil:

Yeah....I know Valeo. Gonna google the purchase right now. Of course ur right about Toyota/Denso.

Are u aware that Woodward was the first paved highway anywhere in the world??? I'm gonna google that too. Saw it on tv doco last week.

Jim.

[Falcon64]

Rob's customer car as it sits today....

[Twentyover]

Beautiful shell restoration- looks fabulous in that blue w/ white accent....

I need to go back to the root problem- the suspension is in solid stack at my current ride height. Bottomed out, at my desired ride height.

I've been spending time on turbosport. I know I'm an idiot for doing so, but it's the only place I've see a description of the problem I'm having. They suggest an RX7 insert is 30mm shorter body and a 20mm shorter shaft, but the OD of the insert is too big for the Capri strut tube.

Trying to find someone in the US who can give advice on what insert fit-, or I may just need to get a torch and hammer and start breaking things.

Falcon- Any idea what strut inserts are used in OZ on tarmac Capri's?

[whitepark]

deleted

[Falcon64]

Greg.....

Check out this page.......I think u need...
#8610-1436 for single adjust,
#8611-1257 for double adjust.

Double adjust has bump adjuster thru hole in bottom of strut housing. These are both 43.5 body diameter = smallest
and 143mm stroke = shortest.

https://performanceshock.com/KONI_86_series_race.pdf

Then go to...
https://performanceshock.com

Live chat with Bruce...he's a kiwi but don't let that dissuade you.... (tell him Jim Grant referred you.....I was their neighbor/machinist contractor at Sonoma)you MIGHT get 10% off for being a " neighbor"..... at least get free shipping:bananna2:

You are the only one who can set ride height and follow that up with strut length calculations. You should be able to measure your strut O.D. then deduct 2.5 or 3mm for I.D.

Because of the China virus I can't get to Rob's shop to measure and they are getting pissed at my phone calls cos it's their development work/intellectual property......I understand.

[Falcon64]

Probably irrelevant but....Chev struts into 64 USA Falcon. You may not have room for the blue tube brace in the Capri...and why did I not radius the corners of those triangle end plates?? Don't know!

[Twentyover]

Well OK there, Falcon

First, Thanks for the information on strut inserts.

Next- Damn creative on what you're doing with the Falcon. The only rwd Chevy I can think of w/ struts was the Gen 3 Camaro- were thes from some home market (for OZ) Holden?

[Falcon64]

......sort of......you will remember the Pontiac G8 and Chevy SS from 2005......they were badge engineered Holden Commodores. Our v8 Commodore was always LS powered since mid nineties. Front calipers were the Oz made finned aluminum 2-pot as used on Corvettes since 1990 something.My Commodore struts from that era got rid of the squeaky Ford coil spring trunnion and incorporated the Corvette caliper. Because the Falcon and Commodore are similar size the inner lower pickup point was EXACTLY in the Ford location, and with a minor straighten, the strut rod went straight into the Ford front bushings! Has a new and stronger lower arm crossmember between chassis rails tho.
You should consider those Corvette calipers for the Capri. Five panic stops in the Falcon and it comes back for more.

[Falcon64]

.....Falcon with Commodore lower arm....and vee belt going inside out around that Subaru tensioner

[Falcon64]

From elsewhere on ProTour....oz version doesn't have the logo

[JustJohn]

I know it's a kind of a rework but what about the BMW E46 front suspension? They're everywhere and you can literally go cut parts out of a couple of LKQ cars today.

[Twentyover]

Well, it's been a while, and things have not been static.

First, started the move in earnest. Moving from Michigan to Cascadia, just east of the summit of Stevens Pass along US Highway 2 in Washington state. Returning to my ancestral homelands, the woods :)

Gratuitous picture of the retirement villa.

181075.

Two weeks ago, woke the Capri from it's slumber and rolled it onto the apron in front of the barn. Loaded it in brother's car hauler in the background, then set off for Washington

181076

Simultaneously, ordered some stuff. Decided to stick with the Capri strut at this point since the relationship between the spindle and strut housing is a fit. Using a different strut might have meant a track change or the top of the strut being more or less in the wrong spot.

Ground Control seems to focus on strut type cars, ordered strut inserts (double adjustable Koni), camber plates, and coilover conversion from them.

181077

Bare feet were sourced from my mother.

I'm in SoCal right now, I seem to remember having a set of Capri struts here from when I lived here fifteen years ago- will need to dig around see if I can find them and may start work while I'm here.

will now shift this to the project section.

[Twentyover]

A minor followup to previous posts-

The general design characteristics of the European Ford strut front end were used for 40 years across various platforms. Dimensions varied but conceptually the design was th same.

With that in mind, on a whim I called Rapido Group, run by the same guy that made my sway bars...forty years ago. Figured that guy would be retired by now :) . Anyway, Rapido specailizes in the Ford/Merkur Sierra (XR4ti) and Scorpio. I called and asked him if he has stock track arms he could measure. Called me back a little later- The XR4ti arm was essentially the same as the Capri arm @ 9.25-9.5", but the Scorpio arm was a full 12" long. I ordereda set and the taper on the ball joint appears similiar (expected), but I will verify. In any event, it looks like I can move the pivot inboard 2.5" and get reduced negative camber reductionin compression.

Will need to shorten the rack to reduce bumpsteer, and the rack housing. Housing should be easy- it's a steel tube pressed into aluminum end fittings. Just cut and sleeve it . The rack I think I will need some help on. Any suggestions?

If any readers see a flaw in my thinking, please point it out. I'd prefer to hear it now as opposed to after I start sawing components up.

Thanks

greg

[Falcon64]

HI Greg......congratulations on the retirement and the move across the country.
From the photo we can see why you made the decision......dang that's a picture postcard right there.

Is there too much oxygen in the air tho??:seizure: Or did you leave out something in between "moving the inner pickup point inboard" and "shorten the rack" ?

Moving the inner lower point inboard will not move the steering arm inboard. The bottom of the strut stays where it was built, the top tilts inboard a small amount on the camber plate but not significant enough to justify cutting the rack.
I you have to.....wouldn't you source a narrower (Cortina) rack.
If you cut the Capri rack, you'd have to cut the end furthest from the pinion, drill and tap the new end (hmmmm.....good luck with that) and relocate the rack half the cut-distance toward the passenger side and rework or throw away the factory rack mounts anyway.

Just source shorter rack and build new mounts to suit.

Jim in Melbourne