Leaving car in bare metal for long time ??

[DRJDVM's '69]

Okay I have a question after watching all those car shows like Rides etc....

It seems like alot of their project cars sit in bare metal for long periods of time.... how is that possible without having surface rust issues ???

I'm planning on media blasting my car and was planning on sealing it right after I get everything cleaned off.

How do the pros keep their cars sitting in bare metal for so long ???

[Travis B]

we are no pros but the ocassional pass with a DA does the job......our shop stays pretty dry thought it is usally no a problem!

[68protouring454]

like travis says, your shop needs to maintain some type of temperature, it cannot have huge ups and downs as this creates moisture, if this happens, say the temp changes more then 20 degrees i would not let it sit, once blasted epoxy prime entire car, that way bodywork can be done over the top of it with no issues.
jake

[Milow68]

Ok question I got is it ok to do body work over the epoxy primer? Also can you sand most epoxy primers after sealing up the bare metal? I don't have any training that is why I ask.
Thanks
Brad

[Rick Giles]

Yes you can apply body filler over epoxy primer. But you have a certain time window to apply filler and then you would have to sand the primer. PPG DP (epoxy) gives you a week @ 70 degrees before you have to sand before body filler or applying other paint or primer.

[62wagon]

Okay I have a question after watching all those car shows like Rides etc....

It seems like alot of their project cars sit in bare metal for long periods of time.... how is that possible without having surface rust issues ???

I'm planning on media blasting my car and was planning on sealing it right after I get everything cleaned off.

How do the pros keep their cars sitting in bare metal for so long ???


DRJVM's '69,
You might give this stuff a try - http://www.roadsters.com/gibbs/. A buddy of mine uses it and it seems to work pretty well. Just my 2 cents.
Mark

[Bill68fbrd]

I'm planning on media blasting my car and was planning on sealing it right after I get everything cleaned off.



I got mine meadia blasted and primed right after and think in hindsight was 100% right. But in my project sits to long between work done.

On a side bar getting the meadia out is a job on its own.

:santa3: Bill

[paul67]

I would think most blast shops would have some way of sealing the car cause even a hand print can cause probs down the line.
paul67

[J2speedandcustom]

I would think it depends on how much body work / modifying your going to do after media blasting. The problem we have is the car looks SO COOL in bare metal! You get a better feel for the finished product in bare metal.

And as Travis said scotchbrite and a da work really well.

[69 Hugger 396]

I worked in two restoration shops where we did antique cars, mostly early Fords but also several Deusenburgs, Packards, Rolls Royces etc, mostly for national shows. We always started every job by dismantling the cars and stripping all the body panels by chemically dipping them. These panels would hang in the shop for years sometimes. As Travis mentioned, a pass with a DA with 80 grit will clean them right up. Epoxy primer must be sanded and reapplied before painting if it sits for over 12 hours (PPG) so I'm not sure how Boyd and Chip can coat a car inside and out with it then paint it weeks or months later. It seems like a large pain in the butt to sand every nook and cranny in the trunk and floors and reseal it but I'm sure they do it... This is how we did things at the shops I worked in and how I still do it, for what it's worth:

DA all bare steel prior to priming with 80 on a DA. Make it look like it's freshly honed, use new sharp paper and do a thorough job. Prime immediately, same day is good. Before applying body filler grind entire area to be filled with 36 grit. Priming first with epoxy primer is unnecessary and adds a layer of material which will get scratched right off all surrounding areas as soon as you begin to sand the filler. Why add a ring of primer to feather and later possibly shrink back and bullseye on a car you spent so much time stripping? This idea was concocted by paint companies about fifteen years ago and is done on TV shows who are sponsored by these paint companies (see the PPG, Glasurit and Dupont signs in the spray booth). If the plastic filler was ever to fail, you can bet the company who makes it will blame the primer underneath it.

[AndyB]

So what is the suggested progression when using epoxy primer? Are you suppose to apply the epoxy primer to seal the metal, then immediately go back over it some other type of primer?

69 hugger 396,

If I am reading the last part of your post correctly, should filler only be used over bare metal so there is nothing between the filler and the metal?

This is great info!

Andy

[J2speedandcustom]

So what is the suggested progression when using epoxy primer? Are you suppose to apply the epoxy primer to seal the metal, then immediately go back over it some other type of primer?
69 hugger 396,
If I am reading the last part of your post correctly, should filler only be used over bare metal so there is nothing between the filler and the metal?
This is great info!
Andy

The epoxy is a base to cover bare metal, that can have body work done over the top of it. Depending on the builder and how they do finish work. You can shoot epoxy, body filler, some sort of high build primer, then sealer right before paint.

[69 Hugger 396]

Andy, I'm only giving my opinion based on how we did our restorations. I have been doing it without priming first since 1978 with zero problems and generations before have done it that way. My 69 Camaro SS that we did in 1980 is holding up just fine. I still see some of the antiques we did as far back as the early eighties and the're all doing fine too except for some lacquer paint starting to fail. A PPG paint rep came into our shop in the early ninetys professing that putting plastic filler on bare steel would cause corrosion due to the filler sweating on the metal as it cured. I offered him a ride on a size thirteen and haven't heard a peep about this process since then until I started seeing it on TV shows. No matter how good of a body man you are you will not always get the filler perfect on the first application. Then what, I need to reprime the sanded through spots and let it dry before applying a skim coat? After all, I wouldn't want that sweat induced corrosion! I will just strip it to bare metal, do my metal work and filler work and prime as Jeff outlined above when that's complete. Again, that's just my humble two cents, I'm not saying their way is wrong, just that I feel it's an unecessary step and that I am uncomfortable sacrificing the mechanical bond obtained by grinding the repaired area before filling in exchange for some epoxy primer that so far (after twenty seven years) I have no proof is needed.

[Travis B]

i agree with what was said above....I don't fell comforable ptting filler on anything but bare metal preferably 36 grit scratches(spelling)!

bare metal
filler
prime
block
prime
paint-I ma not a fan of sealer unless it is needed!

[AndyB]

As always, great information guys. This body work stuff is pretty new to me so any insight is always useful.
Andy

[manicmechanic]

I have been reading an article (series) by Larry Lyles out of Amarillo TX. and has said that PPG has changed their procedure's on rust protection to a 3 step process. It is going to bare metal and doing and hammer and dolly work, but not plastic then covering the car, panel etc. in PPG DP74LF epoxy primer in 2 wet coats w/ 10-15 minutes between them. Allow 24 Hrs to cure and then scuff w/180 grit to apply plastic at this time. if you go back to bare metal while working the plastic you have to recover it W/ the DP74LF. It mixes 2.1 with DP402LF catalyst. If anybody wants a copy of the article I can email it to them.

[StRacerDuke]

I'm not a big fan of the epoxy primers unless it's a very temp changing area or the car is going to sit for a long while. I always have had issues with the PPD DP-90 and 60. It doesn't sand worth a crap and needs a primer over it usually 48-72hrs later. I know it should be longer than that but I've personally had issues.

If you are going to leave it in primer for a while I would suggest laying down a medium coat over the metal, letting it flash, then a high build poly primer over it. This will help it adhear to the epoxy a little better and allow for easy body work repairs later on when you're ready.

Just my 2 cents.