opinions and help with camaro 68 control arms + shocks

[Dewil]

Hi everyone.

Im in the middle of my restoration Project of my 68 Camaro SB and trying to plan ahead a bit.

Right now im installing tubs and a ridetech 4-link with ridetech shocks and 200 rated springs.

I will change front Control arms and shocks to be able to dial in the rideheight and also get better geometry.
Right now im thinking global west Control arms paired with viking double adjustable shocks and original spindle.

It is key to get it to work with my wilwood 6 pistons and 15" Wheels.

How does this setup look?
Anything I have missed?
Are there any better options in the same pricerange?
What rate should I go for on the front springs to get a good balance with the rear ones? (I am not planning any racing, just "Active driving")

Appreciate your opinions and knowledge!

[wayneb]

Hi;

I just finished installing the Global West suspension your interested in on my 68 Camaro. It's the very beginning of my restoration so will be a few months before I test it out. That said, it was easy to install, looks really good, and very easy to adjust the ride height. I truely enjoyed how easy it was to adjust the ride height,it was quite fun! I used 500lb springs as recommended by global west for my smallblock powered car. As far as willwood brakes I don't know, I'm using C6 Z51 340mm brake kit from Kore3, very easy to install once I turned my drum hubs to the proper size. These required 18" wheels though.

I'd call Global West and talk over your application, they were very helpful on my setup and I think they also sell Willwood brakes.

Wayneb

[Dewil]

Thanks for your input Wayne and for sharing your spring rates.
What shocks did you use on your project?

I think I feel pretty confident in the setup I mentioned but it’s never wrong to get some more opinions before pulling the trigger. :)

[Mkelcy]

Hi everyone.

Im in the middle of my restoration Project of my 68 Camaro SB and trying to plan ahead a bit.

Right now im installing tubs and a ridetech 4-link with ridetech shocks and 200 rated springs.

I will change front Control arms and shocks to be able to dial in the rideheight and also get better geometry.
Right now im thinking global west Control arms paired with viking double adjustable shocks and original spindle.

It is key to get it to work with my wilwood 6 pistons and 15" Wheels.

How does this setup look?
Anything I have missed?
Are there any better options in the same pricerange?
What rate should I go for on the front springs to get a good balance with the rear ones? (I am not planning any racing, just "Active driving")

Appreciate your opinions and knowledge!

What geometry improvements do you expect with a control arm swap?

[wayneb]

Thanks for your input Wayne and for sharing your spring rates.
What shocks did you use on your project?

I think I feel pretty confident in the setup I mentioned but it’s never wrong to get some more opinions before pulling the trigger. :)

I installed the essentially the same setup you're looking at, including the viking shocks. The only difference may be that I used the extended travel lowers, not sure which tubular lowers your using.


Wayneb

[Dewil]

Mkelcy, “better” camber travel (negative camber during compression opposed to the positive the occurs with the original arms) and more caster as opposed to the original zero.
Plan is also to change the steering box to one that requires less turns to increase the feel of the ride.

Wayne, does global west have lowers with different lengths? What advantages does this bring?

[Mkelcy]

Mkelcy, “better” camber travel (negative camber during compression opposed to the positive the occurs with the original arms) and more caster as opposed to the original zero.
Plan is also to change the steering box to one that requires less turns to increase the feel of the ride.

Wayne, does global west have lowers with different lengths? What advantages does this bring?

A different control arm can give you different caster, it can't change the camber curve. The only way you can do that is to alter the relationship of the control arm mounting points as compared to distance between the ball joints. The Gulstrand mod, lowers the upper control arm mounting point, improving negative camber gain in compression. A taller spindle or taller upper ball joint can also improve negative camber gain. Both the Gulstrand mod and a taller spindle/taller ball joint increase the distance between the ball joints relative to the distance between the control arm mounting points and improve negative camber gain in compression. Swapping control arms won't affect camber other than as a side effect of having more caster dialed in.

[wayneb]

Mkelcy, “better” camber travel (negative camber during compression opposed to the positive the occurs with the original arms) and more caster as opposed to the original zero.
Plan is also to change the steering box to one that requires less turns to increase the feel of the ride.

Wayne, does global west have lowers with different lengths? What advantages does this bring?

It's not a different length per say, the lower coilover mount is extended below the control arm frame to lower the front end without using dropped spindles

I intsalled them and put 15x7 wheels with 215-60-15 tires on the car and the clearance to the subframe crossover under the engine before adjusting the coilover was 3.5". I need to adjust them up quite a bit more but, will do that when my new front wheels/tires arrive in about a week. I purchased Rocket racing Attack wheels 18"x 8" and 245-40-18 tires


https://www.globalwest.net/camaro-1967-1968-1969-lower-control-arm-extended-travel-global-west.html

GW offers several different tubular control arms depending on the application, ie. drag racing, street, autocross, etc.


Wayne

[Dewil]

Mkelcy,
Im not sure how they accomplish their claim "Our the control arm has a different geometric shape and possesses a unique camber curve associated with caster. This combination reduces the factory bump steer and provides dramatic handling improvements."
Could it be that the arms are shorter and the rotating pivot is further out? (towards the wheel).

The guldstrand mod is a viable option but taller spindles are unfortunately not, since the 15" wheels.

[wayneb]

I imagine most tubular control arms accomplish basically the same thing, improved handling characteristics. Each manufacturer may use a slightly different approach and have their own opinions on what's the best approach. I'm no engineer so really can't offer an expert opinion.

Interesting about the control arm length and rotating pivot, I wonder how you would go about measuring and comparing stock to after market?

Wayneb

[Mkelcy]

Mkelcy,
Im not sure how they accomplish their claim "Our the control arm has a different geometric shape and possesses a unique camber curve associated with caster. This combination reduces the factory bump steer and provides dramatic handling improvements."
Could it be that the arms are shorter and the rotating pivot is further out? (towards the wheel).

The guldstrand mod is a viable option but taller spindles are unfortunately not, since the 15" wheels.

The key phrase is "associated with caster." Control arms can provide more caster and more caster will provide a slight improvement in camber gain, but not nearly as much as tall spindles, tall ball joints or the Guldstrand mod. If you can't do tall spindles or tall ball joints (I'll take your word for it) then you'll need to use the Guldstrand mod if you want improved camber gain.

The whole "improved geometry" claim (other than caster gains) is marketing hype.

[Dewil]

The key phrase is "associated with caster." Control arms can provide more caster and more caster will provide a slight improvement in camber gain, but not nearly as much as tall spindles, tall ball joints or the Guldstrand mod. If you can't do tall spindles or tall ball joints (I'll take your word for it) then you'll need to use the Guldstrand mod if you want improved camber gain.

The whole "improved geometry" claim (other than caster gains) is marketing hype.

Thanks a lot for clearing that out! When having the wheels mounted I can see if there is room to heighten the spindles at least a little bit.

[Mkelcy]

Look for David Pozzi's First Gen site. If I recall correctly, a 0.50" taller upper ball joint makes a big difference.

[Dewil]

Thanks, I will look in to that!
Would a Guldstrand mod combined with tubular control arms give too much caster? The tall spindle route seems simpler if there is clearence though.

[TonyHuntimer]

Control arm manufacturers that are really interested in the customer getting the most out of their control arms will supply specs on their own relocation points for the upper control arms...their own version of the Guldstrand Mod. I would only use the suggested relocation points that come with the control arms. I would not stack a tall spindle or taller ball joints with the control arm relocation points...unless the manufacturer of the arms tells you that it will improve their designed-in geometry. If you throw different mods together, you're defeating the designed geometry.

Regards,
Tony

[Mkelcy]

Control arm manufacturers that are really interested in the customer getting the most out of their control arms will supply specs on their own relocation points for the upper control arms...their own version of the Guldstrand Mod. I would only use the suggested relocation points that come with the control arms. I would not stack a tall spindle or taller ball joints with the control arm relocation points...unless the manufacturer of the arms tells you that it will improve their designed-in geometry. If you throw different mods together, you're defeating the designed geometry.

Regards,
Tony

None of the instructions for the UCA's sold by Ride Tech, Global West or Detroit Speed mention relocating the UCA mounting points. I think doing so would kill the marketing buzz, because that would make clear that there is very little camber correction achieved by just the UCAs.

[Dewil]

I Will post a photo of the current setup and get your input on spindles etc. they are seriously tall that’s for sure.

[Gmc427]

hi,thinking about using gw control arms as well, because them and ridetech are the only suppiers that do shock mount lca,is there any truth to gw having all their ajustment ie extra caster/camber in the top arm as opposesed to both arms?regards

[Dewil]

173206

What Do You guys think? The spindle seems original but doesn’t the spindle arm look a bit “low”.
Can I reuse one of the spacers to get semi-tall spindles?

[Dewil]

Does the spindle steering arm look original to you?
173225

[Rod]

Does the spindle steering arm look original to you?
173225

yes that spindle and steering arm look original

[Rod]

No... repeat..... NO control arm on a camaro fixes the horrible camber... here is one of my videos to explain this simple fact


https://www.facebook.com/SuspensionGeek/videos/1837245289853346/

[Gmc427]

rod ,you changed poivt point on lower arm ?

- - - Updated - - -


No... repeat..... NO control arm on a camaro fixes the horrible camber... here is one of my videos to explain this simple fact


https://www.facebook.com/SuspensionGeek/videos/1837245289853346/
poivt point change in vid

- - - Updated - - -


No... repeat..... NO control arm on a camaro fixes the horrible camber... here is one of my videos to explain this simple fact


https://www.facebook.com/SuspensionGeek/videos/1837245289853346/
poivt point change in vid

- - - Updated - - -


No... repeat..... NO control arm on a camaro fixes the horrible camber... here is one of my videos to explain this simple fact


https://www.facebook.com/SuspensionGeek/videos/1837245289853346/
poivt point change in vid

[Mkelcy]

No, it looks like you've got ball joint extenders on your car. So, yes, the spindles look right, the extenders don't. Seriously, go to David Pozzi's site, and do your research.

[Dewil]

Pozzis site is great and I have no problems researching. It is however hard sometimes when you buy a used car and are not entirely sure what parts are original and not.
Thanks for letting me know: spindles original. Spindle arms not (as I understand)

[Dewil]

So spindles and spindle arms are stock?

I have checked out pozzis site and it’s great. I have no problems doing my research but sometimes it’s hard when you buy a used car that has been modified to know what is original and what is not.

Anyhow I appreciate your help and advice!

[Dewil]

No... repeat..... NO control arm on a camaro fixes the horrible camber... here is one of my videos to explain this simple fact


https://www.facebook.com/SuspensionGeek/videos/1837245289853346/

Good video!