Lithium-ion batteries

[anguilla1980]

What is the popular brand/PN for the more popular lithium-ion car batteries out there being used in Pro Touring? Are many people running a 16v setup? What sort of 16v specific battery tender are you using?

This seems to be a growing niche the past several years and I've read of many advantages to having the 16v battery.

[anguilla1980]

Bump.

[anguilla1980]

So I have it narrowed down to these 3 batteries, the first one is 16v and the other 2 are 12v:

https://www.golithium.com/product-page/16v-battery-and-charger-package

https://shop.sparkedinnovations.com/product/li-s3400-xs-power-12vdc-lithium-racing-battery-4800a-52ah-group-34/

https://www.golithium.com/product-page/12v-battery-and-charger-package


I'm leaning towards the XS Power 12v, the specs are just amazing. XS Power has a 16v, but the specs are far less impressive compared to their 12v: https://shop.sparkedinnovations.com/product/li-d1600xr-xs-power-16vdc-lithium-racing-battery-1080a-59-4ah-group-34/

Thoughts?

EDIT: Here is another 12v option: https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-35-rs/

I think all in all, I will go with the XS Power 12v. Then I have zero risk to any components which may be too sensitive for the 16v battery.

[shelteredchevelle]

I thought my AGM was expensive! I don't see a weight on the Li- Io batt?

[anguilla1980]

Between 8-16 lbs for most. I'm buying them more for the voltage consistancy than the weight savings since it's in my trunk anyway.

[Alponcho]

I too am battery shopping, and am considering lithium-ion. I wouldn't mind spending the money for one given the weight and specs on paper, but wondering if there are any special considerations for the charging system/alternator and other electronics?

[69_Sportsroof]

I've used lithium ion for years in hobby remote control. You cant just charge them with normal lead acid charger. They need a constant current supply until the voltage gets close to max and then they switch to constant voltage and slowly taper off the current. Overcharging them turns them into fireballs.

That being said a couple articles I've read say they have battery management built in for car applications. The one company claims 35-60 pounds weight savings but I think a typical battery we would use in a PT car are only 35 pounds. Then you are talking 20 pound weight savings.

Personally I don't think they have enough advantages to swap over for my car when you consider the price difference. If it's a Max effort race build then 20 pounds is significant, in a street car not so much.

[parsonsj]

I have a customer who's been running a Li-ion battery since 2014. Same battery, no problems, works great. He uses the supplied charger for battery maintenance when he parks the car at home.

I used a Li-ion battery in my C6 Z06 for years as well. Same thing: I kept it on the provided battery maintenance charger when the car was parked. I sold the car in 2016, and the new owner is still using that original battery afaik.

[Motobrewmaster]

I only have some experience using them in motorcycles for the last decade. They have definitely improved them over the years and having a good charger is essential. That said I have been using them in my street bikes and race bikes with good results. My newest batteries have lasted 5 & 6 years and are still running strong. They are able to crank over a high compression (13:1) race twin and a 10:1 street 900 street twin with no problem from remarkably small and light weight batteries.

My only complaint is they are sensitive to cold. They definitely lose alot of cranking power when they get cold. The trick I have found is to turn on a head light (street bike) and draw current to warm them up a bit. This usually warms the bat up and then it will turn over.

Personally I would consider one for my car. Maybe once my current battery dies I will replace it with one.

[Alponcho]

...They need a constant current supply until the voltage gets close to max and then they switch to constant voltage and slowly taper off the current. Overcharging them turns them into fireballs.

That being said a couple articles I've read say they have battery management built in for car applications. The one company claims 35-60 pounds weight savings but I think a typical battery we would use in a PT car are only 35 pounds. Then you are talking 20 pound weight savings....




Their size and weight open up options for placement.

My question is whether one can just replace the tried and true AGM battery used in our cars with a Lithium-ION one without having to change anything else in the car's electrical system--e.g., will a conventional alternator keep it charged?

[anguilla1980]

Thought I would bring this thread of mine back from the dead.

After much diliberation and I have decided to go 16v Lithium and will buy this charger/battery combo:
https://shop.sparkedinnovations.com/product/li-d1600ck-xs-power-li-d1600-16v-lithium-battery-li1625-25a-16v-intellicharger-combo

I only wish the battery had top and side posts. But I don't see ANY 16v Lithium batteries that do.

The company that I bought my custom billet alternator for will do the modifications needed on that.

[andrewb70]

Thought I would bring this thread of mine back from the dead.

After much diliberation and I have decided to go 16v Lithium and will buy this charger/battery combo:
https://shop.sparkedinnovations.com/product/li-d1600ck-xs-power-li-d1600-16v-lithium-battery-li1625-25a-16v-intellicharger-combo

I only wish the battery had top and side posts. But I don't see ANY 16v Lithium batteries that do.

The company that I bought my custom billet alternator for will do the modifications needed on that.

Dual post terminals come in very handy.

Andrew

[John McIntire]

Yikes. That's an expensive battery!

[anguilla1980]

Yup, but did you see the specs, they are amazing. Plus it comes with the charger for when the cars parked. It has insane CCA and the storage! Oh man, I can run my cool shirt, cooling pumps and fans, and even other stuff in the lanes for hours and NEVER need to worry about the car not starting. It's like a dream come true. I run my EWP and fans all the time after shutdown but they only go for about a minute or two before the controller shuts them off due to the drain.

I plan also on getting this regulator and converting my alternator from internal: https://balmar.net/product/regulator-mc-614-h/

[andrewb70]

A 16v system will also reduce load on many of the high current devices, assuming they can handle the high voltage, which I think most can.

[68Formula]

Yup, but did you see the specs, they are amazing. Plus it comes with the charger for when the cars parked. It has insane CCA and the storage! Oh man, I can run my cool shirt, cooling pumps and fans, and even other stuff in the lanes for hours and NEVER need to worry about the car not starting. It's like a dream come true. I run my EWP and fans all the time after shutdown but they only go for about a minute or two before the controller shuts them off due to the drain.

I plan also on getting this regulator and converting my alternator from internal: https://balmar.net/product/regulator-mc-614-h/

And if you ever run out of gas, you can use your starter motor to get you home. :twothumbs:)

[anguilla1980]

Lol

[cpd004]

I have been using an XS AGM batteries for quite a few years now and it's been without issue. I can't imagine their LI would be any different quality wise.

[blitzer454]

I plan also on getting this regulator and converting my alternator from internal: https://balmar.net/product/regulator-mc-614-h/

Are you sure that regulator will work with a 16V battery? I was just looking at the manual for it and it looks like it was designed for a 12V battery.

[anguilla1980]

I reached out to Victron Energy about it and they said it should adjust up to the 17.5v needed to put a full surface charge on a Lithium battery. I saw where they had tested it in a similar application (a 14v battery). I have an email out to Balmar on the matter to confirm. I hope it works out because I like the temp sensor feature for the alternator and the XS Power battery I'm looking at doesn't have a full BMS as it's made for racing.

I'll post updates as I progress. I'm open to other suggestions on similar regulators.

UPDATE: Balmar/CDI Electronics responded back and they said 14.8v is the max recommended. So I'm on the search for another option.


EDIT: I'm also going to run this 16v-12v step down box for the car's body harness fuse box: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/xsp-993

That way my hood tach, dash cluster, and anything else sensitive that's on the factory body harness is safe. It seems only the modern electronics are good for a 16v system without issue. So the 16v will be for everything else.

[anguilla1980]

Feel like I'm beating a dead horse by posting back in this thread, but I've finally made a buying decision on everything after speaking to several companies about their products.

Battery:
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-h6-16v/

Charger:
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/ag-bc-16v/

Alternator external regulator:
https://www.mechman.com/accessories/voltage-control-modules/adjustable-external-regulator-w-2-pin-alt-harness/


XS Power 16v batteries do not have a full BMS onboard and I could not find a 16v regulator/BMS combo. The Balmar would have been fantastic but it won't do 16v. QualityPower in CA who made my billet 320amp alternator says converting it for external and it handling 16v will be no problem at all although it would lower the max amp output slightly.

I compared several brands of batteries and the Antigravity had the most amp hours of rated storage of any I could find with an integrated FULL BMS, not just a partial one that does cell balancing only like the XS Power.

I'll be using XS Power 16v-12v step down box for my car's body harness as I mentioned and linked to in my previous post.

So for anyone following, this seems to be the best recipe for going Lithium and 16v for a street/track Pro Touring car, as of today. Unless someone can please show me otherwise. I'll be buying everything next month and sending my alt off to be converted in January. I'll do a video about it on my YouTube channel in Feb when I hopefully complete the upgrade.