Its almost 2020, has the definition of pro-touring changed?

[Bugzilla]

I read through most of the sticky of pro-touring defined. That post was created nearly 15 years ago. What I got from it was that you take an old car and make it handle good, well thats my short version at least. Having said that, what is considered an "old" car now days? Can you take an early 2000s car and make it pro-touring or is it still considered too new of a vehicle? Is there really a year limitation to a pro-touring car? Do imports count? To me, all pro-touring means is that you take a bone stock car and make it better in every way, in regards to performance of course. What are your guy's thoughts?

[c4racer2]

Optima challenge series vintage class goes up to 1989. So that’s one data point.

Interesting year because that was the year I bought my first new car - a 1989 IROC which I raced in various forms and drove on the street for 10 years. Now it’s in the vintage class. But the 1991 Corvette I had next isn’t. Go figure.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

In my head, you can "pro-tour" up to about the early 90's as long as at least the powertrain has been brought up to today's standards. 3gen Camaro/Firebird, Fox Body Mustangs, C4 Corvette, etc.

[Bugzilla]

Optima challenge series vintage class goes up to 1989. So that’s one data point.

Interesting year because that was the year I bought my first new car - a 1989 IROC which I raced in various forms and drove on the street for 10 years. Now it’s in the vintage class. But the 1991 Corvette I had next isn’t. Go figure.

Good point in bringing up Optima. But at the same time, arent those supposed to be ultimate street cars? Is that different then PT? They dont care what year the car is.


In my head, you can "pro-tour" up to about the early 90's as long as at least the powertrain has been brought up to today's standards. 3gen Camaro/Firebird, Fox Body Mustangs, C4 Corvette, etc.

I can see all those being able to be classified as PT. Does a modern power plant really have to be part of it though? Lots of guys run the OEM style engine in whatever car it is and have a competitive car. If you mean something like convert over from a carb to efi, I see it that way but I dont see the need to do a complete engine/ trans swap to be PT.

[c4racer2]

Agree. Doesn’t even have to be EFI in my book. I mean sure that’s better but carbs work perfectly well on the track and street when set up correctly.
I think it’s more about modern tires, brakes, transmissions and suspension set up for handling combined with a motor that makes 400hp+ ideally since that’s the Benchmark in new muscle cars / sports sedans etc

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I can see all those being able to be classified as PT. Does a modern power plant really have to be part of it though? Lots of guys run the OEM style engine in whatever car it is and have a competitive car. If you mean something like convert over from a carb to efi, I see it that way but I dont see the need to do a complete engine/ trans swap to be PT.

Is "Pro-Touring" a specific competitive racing class anywhere, or is it just a public bucketing of a type of car with certain features? I'm just looking to have a discussion and not knock anyone's build in any way.

I believe people commonly race in, say, the "SCCA CAM" class. While I am not up-to-speed on many of the available series, I haven't heard of a "Pro-Touring" class.

That said, I see a "Pro-Touring" car as a older/classic vehicle that has had improvements made to bring it into the current standards of performance, comfort, reliability, etc. A wolf in sheep's clothing, if you consider something like a 60's or 70's Camaro/Mustang/'Cuda/etc. "sheep's clothing" I guess.

For me, I see it needing a modern drivetrain. Sure, you can race and drive a carbureted car anywhere, they've been doing it for a century, but it's still an archaic design and is always compromising somewhere. TBI injection is substantially better, but most conversions are still flat-tappet, poorly gasketed/leaky and heavy all-iron engines. The other "required" part is within the powertrain, an overdrive transmission is a bare requirement. nobody actually enjoys going down the highway in a 4.10 axle car without overdrive, or a 2.94 axle car to they can keep the revs down. Throwing some 17s on an otherwise stock muscle certainly upgrades it aesthetically, but doesn't make it a whole lot better in any other aspect.

[nokones]

You can also consider the Goodguys rule for classing the Pro-Class at their autocrosses. In my opinion, a car at least 25 years old should be the deciding factor. In most states that is the rule for Historical/Vintage vehicles being considered for special registration.

In my opinion, the subject of "Pro-Touring" is hot rodding, taking something that is stock and customizing, making more power, something totally different than stock, etc., and either showing/cruising or competing with it in some form of competition like autocrosses or vintage racing. As for should it include non-American cars. I'm a little on the fence with this especially if it is not powered by an American V8. Although, some of our Hot Rodding fore-fathers did put some powerful V8s in the Anglias and VW bugs back in the day. That I would consider Hot Rodding thus, Pro-Touring. I'm not sure that I could accept the fact that it would be considered Hot Rodding with American V8 in a Subaru or a Hyundai and I hope someone doesn't waste a perfectly good V8 in one of those cars.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

I agree with Kenny in saying that pro touring is hot rodding. Having said that, I would sum up pro touring as emulating a modern performance car. Comfort, performance, NVH. I think a lot of cars on here are not pt they are more race car.

[c4racer2]

I guess depends on definitions eh. This car the 69 big red Camaro has often been touted as the best pro touring car of all time. No doubt it’s a race car. Also carburated.

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/features/the-legendary-big-red-camaro-the-whole-story/

I think everybody had their own spin on it. Some are more race oriented - some are more comfort focused with things like AC and nice stereos and mild LS motors so basically emulating a modern Camaro or corvette in classic sheet metal.

For me - I have a new Camaro which I love driving. The performance is incredible and the comfort and modern amenities like Apple car play and back up camera and all that are very nice. I drive it a lot. Has a stock LT1 making 455hp making it a very fast car.

But when I went to build a classic car I didn’t want to emulate the experience of driving that car. I wanted a car that was more raw, faster but with similar handling / grip / braking and without a care for modern conveniences like ac. My car has a carbed 406 making 520hp. I will likely update to 4barrel style EFI and tweak the motor some to get around 600hp as my next step. But I have no interest in ac or a nice stereo. The car has factory style full interior with upgraded seats. I will add a harness bar but otherwise it looks like a 71 car inside. Full carpet. Dynamat. It’s pretty quiet inside and very easy to drive anywhere with a T56 - 2200rpm at 75 - the car will run all day long and go anywhere. Excellent cooling system. Has elec fuel pump which really limits any type of vapor lock - the car runs great always starts right up and is easy to drive in traffic. It has race quality brakes and 18” tires that add bigger footprint than my 2016 SS. Full handling suspension set up.

Is my car pro touring ?

Sure is to me.

165605

[andrewb70]

As I recall, I contributed heavily to that discussion many years ago. My stance now is that I just don't give a crap. Build what you want, however you want to build it, drive it, show it, call it what you want...:-)

Andrew

[anguilla1980]

As I recall, I contributed heavily to that discussion many years ago. My stance now is that I just don't give a crap. Build what you want, however you want to build it, drive it, show it, call it what you want...:-)

Andrew

^^^This.

I feel like the term "Pro-Touring" is useless and outdated. Let's face it, everyone is upgrading older cars with newer stuff (save for original restorations of course). To put a requirement on a car being of a certain age or requiring a minimum of modern parts to fit someone's word for what to call it is a bit ridiculous if you ask me. Let's just call it what it is, modern hot rodding. Each generation has their own choice of cars to hot rod and ways to do it for making them "better" than original which is really the crux of it.

[Bugzilla]

Thanks for all the different options guys! Exactly what I was hoping for. In a way, I agree with everyone. Pro touring used to have a specific definition but now days, I think it doesnt mean a specific thing. More of just a car that has been modified to be better then it was in whatever way the owner felt nessecary.

Me personally, I'm an import guy. I own one gm vehicle at the moment and it's my soccer dad suv, not a PT machine. Sure my Bug is GM powered but it's a 4 cyl, not a big nasty v8. It has no creature comforts so I dont count it as PT. It's too far gone and is a race car. And it's an import....

My other car, which I think is more PT or modern hot roding is my evo. It's based off the same chassis that was built in 92 yet the car is an 06. It's got 400whp, it has modern suspension, it has good brakes, I can have a halfway decent conversation while driving down the highway at 75mph and of course, it has ac. I drive it to the track 200 miles away, win my class and drive it back home. I dont care what you call it, but that's pro touring to me.

[STREETFIGHTER50]

I'm still a newbe here. I always thought Pro-Touring cars were classics built up to be bad ass corner carvers with the higher-end aftermarket chassis, suspension, and brake parts. Pro-Street would be the classics set up as drag cars, and Restomods I guess a combination of them-restored and modded up to be better than original in every way, but not as extreme.

[c4racer2]

As I recall, I contributed heavily to that discussion many years ago. My stance now is that I just don't give a crap. Build what you want, however you want to build it, drive it, show it, call it what you want...:-)

Andrew

couldn't agree more! this is a completely individual hobby - unless you are building them to sell to a specific audience or something!

[79 Camaro]

I think Pro Tour has moved very fast over the years. First good handling with mostly stock chassis and then moved to all new front and rear suspensions. Or complete new chassis. LS engines have made fast cars easier to build.
So my current hot rod is a 1968 C10. Built LS6. T56 Magnum. C5 brakes all around. Lowered 4/6 drop. Tubular a-arms. Big front sway bar. Goes down the road super straight. 10 years ago it was pro tour but today who knows.
My pro fun driver is a 98 Wrangler with a LS6 swap. Its quite quick but not the best handler. With a 2" lift it leans a bit in the corners. But in a straight line and 4:10 gears its not slow.
The bad thing like most sports is that to build a competitive pro tour car is the cost.

[mikedc]

What cars can be PT?

I think the tipping factor is whether the car warrants major modifications from stock just to fit in with PT ideals.


A 1992 Camaro or Mustang? "Yeah."

A 1992 Viper? "Umm, I dunno . . . what have you done to it?"

[raustinss]

I think pro touring is going to continue to evolve , more into active ( electronic)suspensions. Might as well toss in some "pro luxury " on there too. I see more modern car creature comforts working there way into cars a little more seamlessly.

[c4racer2]

I think pro touring is going to continue to evolve , more into active ( electronic)suspensions. Might as well toss in some "pro luxury " on there too. I see more modern car creature comforts working there way into cars a little more seamlessly.

meh - it's a lot cheaper to buy those luxury cars separately and complete rather than integrating into your PT car. Just saying!
For me it's a Panamera S!

[Zoomin]

A pro-touring car does not have a contemporaneous engine, and has substantially improved suspension. Anything short of that is a restomod. JMO, of course.

[anguilla1980]

A pro-touring car does not have a contemporaneous engine

I'm curious of your definition here. For example, I run a 1969 Pontiac 400 block, but with a serpentine setup, electric water pump, Edelbrock aluminum heads, and Holley EFI. I'd say that's more than upgraded enough to be considered PT. Hell, I consider EFI enough of an upgrade. But at the same time, I've seem some carb'd LS engines that are for sure PT.

I think rather than calling an engine contemporary, anything upgraded from stock could qualify as part of a PT build.

[Zoomin]

Look, I'm not trying to slam anyone, I'm just putting an definition out there like everyone else in the discussion. If you think your car meets the definition, then great! We're all here to discuss ways to make our cars perform better, right?

But having said that, by my own admittedly frivolous definition, your car is a hotrod. You don't mention anything about what makes your car handle or stop better, or be able to gobble up long stretches of road in comfort.

Mark Stielow builds pro-touring cars, Bill Howell builds race cars.

[anguilla1980]

Look, I'm not trying to slam anyone, I'm just putting an definition out there like everyone else in the discussion. If you think your car meets the definition, then great! We're all here to discuss ways to make our cars perform better, right?

But having said that, by my own admittedly frivolous definition, your car is a hotrod. You don't mention anything about what makes your car handle or stop better, or be able to gobble up long stretches of road in comfort.

Mark Stielow builds pro-touring cars, Bill Howell builds race cars.

Don't worry about slamming the delicate flowers that get butt-hurt online, I'm here for a good debate on the topic of this thread!

I didn't bring up anything other than the engine because that's what I wanted to focus on when I questioned you. Nothing about my suspension is stock. But as I said, this isn't about if "my" car fits some definition of something. I was asking about your interpretation of what is considered contemporary engine. Shall I presume you mean the engine block?

[Zoomin]

Don't worry about slamming the delicate flowers that get butt-hurt online, I'm here for a good debate on the topic of this thread!

I didn't bring up anything other than the engine because that's what I wanted to focus on when I questioned you. Nothing about my suspension is stock. But as I said, this isn't about if "my" car fits some definition of something. I was asking about your interpretation of what is considered contemporary engine. Shall I presume you mean the engine block?

Yes, I suppose I do mean the engine block. One of the cars I have is a 69 Camaro with a 406 sbc and I have an EFI setup on it. It has the full Ride-Tech coil over suspension, a/c and Wilwood brakes. By my own definition, it isn't "pro-touring" but it is this >< close to it. Does that bother me? Not in the least BUT I have plans to cross that line into pt territory sometime in the near future.

[anguilla1980]

Cool. Thanks for the response!

[raustinss]

meh - it's a lot cheaper to buy those luxury cars separately and complete rather than integrating into your PT car. Just saying!
For me it's a Panamera S!

Lol true .. but anyone can buy a Porsche.. not everyone can make a classic wagon, suburban etc luxurious. I see your point thou

[Bugzilla]

Yes, I suppose I do mean the engine block. One of the cars I have is a 69 Camaro with a 406 sbc and I have an EFI setup on it. It has the full Ride-Tech coil over suspension, a/c and Wilwood brakes. By my own definition, it isn't "pro-touring" but it is this >< close to it. Does that bother me? Not in the least BUT I have plans to cross that line into pt territory sometime in the near future.

What do you consider missing from your car to be PT? Something like a LS swap? To me it sounds like you already qualify. Again, I am one of the people who doesnt care if you still have an original 69 block in it, your engine isnt stock and thats what matters to me.

[BonzoHansen]

IBTL! :)

I think the term has been stepped on by the general public and by marketing. Some people call anything pro touring if it just has big wheels. There's another train of thought that if it can't do 200 at Daytona it's not a pro touring car. I think they're both wrong but what are you gonna do.



I just wanna see the touring put back into pro touring.:)

[parsonsj]

This is pro-touring.com. So we have to care some about what we consider to be Pro Touring. A good discussion so far -- with just (so far) a glimmer of possible trouble.

We welcome all types of cars and modifications, but we allow criticism of questionable practices too.

In the past, these definition threads have usually turned ugly, as we get to the nub of the issue for most enthusiasts: "Is my car included?"

So please -- let's keep this discussion friendly and civil. I'm as interested as any of you about what, if anything, has changed over the past decade or so.

[BMR Sales]

Lol true .. but anyone can buy a Porsche.. not everyone can make a classic wagon, suburban etc luxurious. I see your point thou

but not everybody has a LS Porsche with Suspension upgrades! :razz:

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2018/12/20/post-1623-1542477317.jpg (https://www.hostmyjunk.com/image/SLLM7)

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2018/12/20/IMG_20180902_113032389.jpg (https://www.hostmyjunk.com/image/SLkRE)

[T_Raven]

I've always considered the idea of pro-touring to be improving all, or at least most of a cars characteristics: handling, braking, acceleration, comfort, etc.


I have noticed some things that I find funny lately. I feel like there are more "glam-touring" builds. Ridiculous high dollar builds no one will drive. Idk, I see the point of a high end shop pushing the envelope to show case their skills, but regardless of the style of vehicle built, I'll never understand building a vehicle to be worse at what it was meant to do, especially if it costs 6 figures to build it.

I also see more cars for sale in the $100k range. I remember the first time I saw a pro-touring 1st gen Camaro for sale for $100k and the guy was laughed at by everyone on the forum.

Suddenly every $30k Camaro is worth $60k if you spend $5000 to upgrade the brakes and wheels. Throw in a LS and it's a $80k car. Aftermarket sub frame too? Instant $100k car, lol.

A guy I know works for a shop building custom cars. The owner just sent a 67 Firebird to auction. That's my favorite car and I've had mine for 20 years, but his is a color I don't like and way too blingy. He's expecting to get $250k because that's what he has in it. I think the guy's optimistic by about $200k.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

I think it is relatively safe to say we are all building cars that are better than they were originally. Not just nicer paint or better brake pads, but genuine improvements in ALL areas. I think this is pro touring because they are just that, cars that do everything and not just one thing ( drag race, top speed ) For me the line just gets blurred at comfort levels.

[CSG]

I guess for me the blurry area is where is the line between pro-tour & retro mod. To me a retro mod is a car that has some areas improved with more modern stuff or maybe most areas but uses a lower "quality" of parts. IE, modern but smaller brakes, maybe something like a small block but with a sniper or Fi-Tech on it. The pro-tour car has more higher end parts and has addressed all or most of the car with more modern stuff.

[67-LS1]

I’m not sure there is a 100% clear definition of “Pro-Touring” and that’s a good thing. Is my 66 pro-Touring? I went with a 325 HP V6 but full Hotchkis suspension, Wilwood discs front and rear, tighter steering, big wheels, etc.
I’ll put 10-12k miles on my car every year so was trying to see if I could get 35 mpg while having twice the HP as stock and handle like a more modern car.
Maybe since I use mine every day the “Touring” part of pro-touring is misapplied. Pro-Driver ?

[andrewb70]

Is my Cougar Pro-touring?

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/856.jpg

Discuss.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

Geez Andrew -- if only it had door handles and a wing mirror, lol. :)

[Alponcho]

I've always considered the idea of pro-touring to be improving all, or at least most of a cars characteristics: handling, braking, acceleration, comfort, etc.


I have noticed some things that I find funny lately. I feel like there are more "glam-touring" builds....

My own definition is like yours--improvements in those areas you mentioned for the sake of performance and reliability...the definition isn't linked to specific parts or cars so pro-touring hobby can evolve over time rather than morph into something else as the types of cars and nature of the improvements change with advances in technology. This definition also wouldn't include glam-touring builds (that term is awesome by the way) if the changes are not really improvements.

[andrewb70]

Geez Andrew -- if only it had door handles and a wing mirror, lol. :)

Door handles are so overrated...c'mon John...and you want two mirrors? What are you, old and you can't turn your head ;-)

Andrew

[dhutton]

Is my Cougar Pro-touring?

https://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/856.jpg

Discuss.

Andrew

In your own words:

“This isn't exactly a pro-touring car”

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/122593-1967-Cougar?highlight=Cougar

This car is cool as heck but I’ve always considered it a hot rod. I think it’s that scoop sticking out of the hood. :)

Don

[andrewb70]

In your own words:

“This isn't exactly a pro-touring car”

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/122593-1967-Cougar?highlight=Cougar

This car is cool as heck but I’ve always considered it a hot rod. I think it’s that scoop sticking out of the hood. :)

Don

It wasn't with the skinny front tires...but what about now? I just finished a 1900 mile road trip...it's super reliable...rips pretty well around corners...

So because it has something sticking out of the hood it's not "pro-touring?"

Beware...this is mostly a flaming post :-)

Andrew

[dhutton]

It wasn't with the skinny front tires...but what about now? I just finished a 1900 mile road trip...it's super reliable...rips pretty well around corners...

So because it has something sticking out of the hood it's not "pro-touring?"

Beware...this is mostly a flaming post :-)

Andrew

I took the bait but I’m not going to take it again.:moon::lmao:

Don

[andrewb70]

I took the bait but I’m not going to take it again.:moon::lmao:

Don

It's all good Don! See my post #10.

Andrew

[raustinss]

but not everybody has a LS Porsche with Suspension upgrades! :razz:

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2018/12/20/post-1623-1542477317.jpg (https://www.hostmyjunk.com/image/SLLM7)

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2018/12/20/IMG_20180902_113032389.jpg (https://www.hostmyjunk.com/image/SLkRE)




Lmao true , for the win

[theastronaut]

I'm still a newbe here. I always thought Pro-Touring cars were classics built up to be bad ass corner carvers with the higher-end aftermarket chassis, suspension, and brake parts. Pro-Street would be the classics set up as drag cars, and Restomods I guess a combination of them-restored and modded up to be better than original in every way, but not as extreme.


I like and agree with this take on it.


I've always thought of Pro-Touring as a true street car that could run multiple 20-30 minute sessions on a road course reliably while setting respectable lap times, usually using modern drivetrain and suspension technology to improve it's reliability, performance, and comfort. Doesn't have to be pretty, but underneath it's all business to make it track capable, reliable, and more comfortable.

A Hot Rod is a car that has most of it's focus on going fast in a straight line, either drag strip or top speed. Doesn't have to be pretty or comfortable or terribly reliable, its just built to go fast.

Pro-Street is a drag car that's still a street car but it's emphasis is 1/4 mile performance. Built to look good, so it's more than just a Hot Rod.

Resto-Mod is a nicely restored cruiser that's better than stock all around but wouldn't last through a session on a road course. The cooling system, brakes, tires, power steering, etc are upgraded from stock but probably aren't up to the task of going all-out for extended periods.

Glam-Touring- Exaggerated Pro-Touring styling, top-notch workmanship throughout, has all the go-fast parts so it looks fast, but we all know it'll never see any actual track time.


IMO, 80's imports and anything American that's newer than early 90's are already too modern to fit into the Pro-Touring category. My daily driver is an '89 Ford Festiva with coilovers and sticky tires, and it regularly places in the top ten at autocrosses in daily driver setup with the original engine. It has AC and is comfortable to drive daily; I've driven it from SC to AZ twice for track events. It sorta fits the definition of pro-touring since it's old enough to be considered a classic, is comfortable enough, easily lasts through 300+ track miles over a weekend while putting down good lap times... but I can't bring myself to call it Pro-Touring since it's modern enough to have good brakes, good suspension geometry, and some modern comfort features from the factory. All I did was add coilovers, wheels, and tires. So I would say that for imports, you'd have to go back farther to maybe the late 70's and earlier before those could be considered Pro-Touring material.

[79 Camaro]

Can I suggest another category? How about "Pro-Fun"?

My 68 C10 is kind of Pro- Fun. Built LS1, T56 magnum, C5 brakes all around. Big dual pass radiator. Big front sway bar. Lowered 4" in the front, 6" in the back. Tubular a-arms up front. 20" wheels and tires all around. Nice VW GTI bucket seats. Auto Meter gauges. Goes down the road super straight.

I doubt it would over heat on a road course if I was driving it because I'm not a road race guy.

Heater, wipers and defrost work for not so nice weather. We were at Oreilly's car show in St.Paul two weeks ago and Friday was 90 degrees. Early morning into the fair grounds was fine. 5 PM going to my sisters house was 20 miles of stop and go city traffic. Truck ran like a champ. Big dual pass radiator and spal fan came on about 5 times. A bit warm in the cab since no AC.

Saturday was non stop rain from 8AM. We left at noon in basically a monsoon rain for about 70 miles. A bit scary but again since all the Pro-Fun wipers and defrost worked well it was great.

Pro-Fun turns to Pro-Bummer when the weather isn't good with rain or heat and the car can't cope.

Oh and build the Pro-Fun car or truck so almost anyone can drive it without any special instructions.

Just my .02

[andrewb70]

If ProFun is a thing, my Cougar has it down :-)

Andrew

[mike@sim-seats]

Throwing some 17s on an otherwise stock muscle certainly upgrades it aesthetically, but doesn't make it a whole lot better in any other aspect.

I disagree. Moving to the larger diameter wheel introduces more/better tire choices that can transform the car. This is the biggest reason I changed to a larger wheel diameter.

[shelteredchevelle]

I'm building my car based on pro tour/fun, and this place has given me a lot of ideas on what, and what not to do. I decided to keep my car base model- no tunes, no power accessories, basic exterior/interior, and no LS. I've never been one to label anything in particular other than a hot rod, so natural evolution see's new styles of hot rods come into and out of vogue. It will be interesting to see what the next latest hot style will be, but in the meantime I'm gonna have a blast driving the hell outta my pro tour/fun/resto hot rod.

[USAZR1]

I'm still a newby here. I always thought Pro-Touring cars were classics built up to be bad ass corner carvers with the higher-end aftermarket chassis, suspension, and brake parts. Pro-Street would be the classics set up as drag cars, and Restomods I guess a combination of them-restored and modded up to be better than original in every way, but not as extreme.

I've always thought the same thing. My shop was building cars like that before the term Pro-Touring was even coined. Now, if you don't build your car for the track, you're considered a wannabe.

[jimco84x]

With almost 500 whp from an LS, 6 forward gears, greatly improved suspension, brakes and tires, is this import "Pro-Touring"?

166744

[Zoomin]

With almost 500 whp from an LS, 6 forward gears, greatly improved suspension, brakes and tires, is this import "Pro-Touring"?




Would you want to tour 900 miles in a day with it, in 100* temps?

[andrewb70]

With almost 500 whp from an LS, 6 forward gears, greatly improved suspension, brakes and tires, is this import "Pro-Touring"?

166744

Absolutely!

[c4racer2]

Would you want to tour 900 miles in a day with it, in 100* temps?

Oh is that the definition now? If so then my Pro-Touring car is my Panamera then. That's the only car I have owned in awhile that I would want to drive 900 miles in a day in.

[jimco84x]

Would you want to tour 900 miles in a day with it, in 100* temps?

I'm not sure that I want to do 900 miles in a day, in my Suburban, with the stereo and the AC blasting....That's a lot of seat time in anything

I'll take 100 miles of twisty back roads with the windows down and the AC off....listening to the sidepipes or the turbo spooling every chance I get. --quality >quantity, but to each his own. :)

[GoodysGotaCuda]

Would you want to tour 900 miles in a day with it, in 100* temps?

I don't even want to drive the Wife's comfy Highlander for 900 miles in a day!

I did drive the 'Cuda today, "feels like" temperature hit 108°.

[BMR Sales]

Absolutely!

Absolutely Yes!

[eville]

It seems to me "pro-touring" evolved over time. Back in the day, you had restomod or "pro-street". Pro-touring to me was building the car to look like it was "modern" while restomod was making it look like it was built in 1980. In my mind PT was about taking an old car, and creating a refined hot rod. Something that was more reliable, drove better, was quieter on the inside, had some amenities and just plain looked bad ass. Something you could drive to work, cruise on Sundays and hit the occasional Auto-X.

Then came the high end builds. People trying to turn old cars into showcar-racecars. (Thanks Rupp, Shipka, et al). All of us wanted to chase that dream. The reality is, when you build a car that nice a lot of people get scared to drive it. Once you take it to the track, you realize that it's still a 60's hot rod and these cars have quirks. You look over and that guy with a 6 year old vette is doing more for less and guys started buying newer cars for track days. Hell even Rupp sold Penny and TrackRat and just suggested he'd sell the wagon to buy a newer Camaro.

For me, I still love what Pro-Touring is, fuel injection, big brakes, upgraded suspension, modern tire and wheel sizes, sound insulation, a usable cell phone charger and a cup holder for my iced Americano. I'd love a track car, but the reality is it's not in my budget and my Camaro is a poor choice to build a track car from.

[Larry Callahan]

With almost 500 whp from an LS, 6 forward gears, greatly improved suspension, brakes and tires, is this import "Pro-Touring"?

166744

Oh yeah! I love it!!!!

It reminds me of this one

166789

[Interceptor5588]

It seems to me "pro-touring" evolved over time. Back in the day, you had restomod or "pro-street". Pro-touring to me was building the car to look like it was "modern" while restomod was making it look like it was built in 1980. In my mind PT was about taking an old car, and creating a refined hot rod. Something that was more reliable, drove better, was quieter on the inside, had some amenities and just plain looked bad ass. Something you could drive to work, cruise on Sundays and hit the occasional Auto-X.

Then came the high end builds. People trying to turn old cars into showcar-racecars. (Thanks Rupp, Shipka, et al). All of us wanted to chase that dream. The reality is, when you build a car that nice a lot of people get scared to drive it. Once you take it to the track, you realize that it's still a 60's hot rod and these cars have quirks. You look over and that guy with a 6 year old vette is doing more for less and guys started buying newer cars for track days. Hell even Rupp sold Penny and TrackRat and just suggested he'd sell the wagon to buy a newer Camaro.

For me, I still love what Pro-Touring is, fuel injection, big brakes, upgraded suspension, modern tire and wheel sizes, sound insulation, a usable cell phone charger and a cup holder for my iced Americano. I'd love a track car, but the reality is it's not in my budget and my Camaro is a poor choice to build a track car from.

Well said.

[raustinss]

The other thing to keep in mind is the bar is rising at insane rates . A 2004 Z06 had 405 hp . A 2019 has 755 while carrying a warranty. So the "starting line " for a decent pro-touring car must also follow this same path . I bought a 07 LS7 that I want nothing to do with now and would much prefer a new lt motor.

[rickpaw]

With almost 500 whp from an LS, 6 forward gears, greatly improved suspension, brakes and tires, is this import "Pro-Touring"?

166744

Oh, yeah.

Any additional information on the car, or build thread?