Steering box

[KnightmareZ]

1969 camaro
stock subframe
all Ridetech suspension and tru turn
LS engine
Holley mid mount acc drive with type 2 PS pump 20-185
P/S adapter hardline to AN-6 included

What are my quick ratio steering box options in this scenario?
Probably need as much clearance for the headers as I can get as well.

Thanks

[ajaccola]

I am running the stock gearbox that was manufactured with a smaller ratio. I am running hooker blackheart long tube headers with adjustable motor mounts. Great clearance and never had to ding the headers once.

[KnightmareZ]

Which mounts are you using? I was planning on using the black heart mounts and trans xmember. Also been reading alot about pressure modifications and how everything connects on the lines and steering column... I'm probably just overthinking this lol

[Z06vet]

I have a similar setup with DSE/turn one box. All holley swap pieces- oil pan, headers, mounts, trans x member. Ridetech w tru turn. I'm running a C6 power steering pump. No header interference at all. Feel is as good or better than any rack I've driven. I had the pressure line made. For the return, edelmann makes a line that fits nicely (cut to length for the reservoir end) I have the 20-185 on my LS7, and I feel you could use the same return line. I'll see if I can dig up that part number for you.

[KnightmareZ]

Yeah shoot that my way if you dont mind. Thanks

[ajaccola]

I am using these mounts. "Classic Performance Engine Mounts LS1-KU-P"

[Josh@Ridetech]

We use (and offer both) the TurnOne and Borgeson boxes on our cars. They're both extremely nice pieces that work very well.

Turnone - Offered in both a 12.7:1 or 10:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/turn-one-600-series-steering-box/

Borgeson - Offered in a 12.7:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/borgeson-12.7-1-600-series-steering-box/

Let me know if you have any questions on anything!

[minendrews68]

We use (and offer both) the TurnOne and Borgeson boxes on our cars. They're both extremely nice pieces that work very well.

Turnone - Offered in both a 12.7:1 or 10:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/turn-one-600-series-steering-box/

Borgeson - Offered in a 12.7:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/borgeson-12.7-1-600-series-steering-box/

Let me know if you have any questions on anything!

Nightmarez I apologize for getting into your thread but thought it would be easier to ask Josh a question here than start a new thread about steering boxes.

Josh, I have a stock power steering box on my '68 Camaro. I was having a problem with it sometimes locking up (still being able to get back home) and checked the screen filter on the powersteering pump. I also added a filter on the low pressure side. Since then I've had a problem with it being hard to steer (like there's a place it hangs, not the same place every time). I have checked and nothing hits the box or anything associated with it. I have one header tube that is pretty close but doesn't hit the box. When it's cold or motor just started I don't have a problem. After it heats up is when the problem begins. Any ideas?

Thanks Carl

[ULTM8Z]

We use (and offer both) the TurnOne and Borgeson boxes on our cars. They're both extremely nice pieces that work very well.

Turnone - Offered in both a 12.7:1 or 10:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/turn-one-600-series-steering-box/

Borgeson - Offered in a 12.7:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/borgeson-12.7-1-600-series-steering-box/

Let me know if you have any questions on anything!

+1 on the borgeson. Just installed one and love it. Also get their u-joint steering shaft kit. My '71 Camaro feels every bit as precise as my wifes 2017 infinity.

[KnightmareZ]

Josh, Thanks for the reply
Quick question... Which pitman arm will I need? You are showing one for P/S and one for M/S.
I assume my car came with manual steering but I stripped everything down and am running all ridetech.
All I need now is the box, idler and pitman.
Thanks

[KnightmareZ]

I am using these mounts. "Classic Performance Engine Mounts LS1-KU-P"

Thanks I'll check those out

[Josh@Ridetech]

Nightmarez I apologize for getting into your thread but thought it would be easier to ask Josh a question here than start a new thread about steering boxes.

Josh, I have a stock power steering box on my '68 Camaro. I was having a problem with it sometimes locking up (still being able to get back home) and checked the screen filter on the powersteering pump. I also added a filter on the low pressure side. Since then I've had a problem with it being hard to steer (like there's a place it hangs, not the same place every time). I have checked and nothing hits the box or anything associated with it. I have one header tube that is pretty close but doesn't hit the box. When it's cold or motor just started I don't have a problem. After it heats up is when the problem begins. Any ideas?

Thanks Carl
That is a good question. It could be something to do with the box when everything heats up but I'm not 100% sure. On something like that, Borgeson can probably give you some more solid advice. They might know some more quirky things about the boxes that I wouldn't think of. Another thing that could be causing an issue (that gets overlooked alot) are the balljoints. I have seen it a few times where they can heat up, metal expands, and they can also start feeling notchy and start catching. Just trying to think of anything and everything...

+1 on the borgeson. Just installed one and love it. Also get their u-joint steering shaft kit. My '71 Camaro feels every bit as precise as my wifes 2017 infinity.
Same here! I put one in my Firebird and it was a tremendous difference.

Josh, Thanks for the reply
Quick question... Which pitman arm will I need? You are showing one for P/S and one for M/S.
I assume my car came with manual steering but I stripped everything down and am running all ridetech.
All I need now is the box, idler and pitman.
Thanks

No problem at all! You would want to use the P/S arm for this box.

[minendrews68]

That is a good question. It could be something to do with the box when everything heats up but I'm not 100% sure. On something like that, Borgeson can probably give you some more solid advice. They might know some more quirky things about the boxes that I wouldn't think of. Another thing that could be causing an issue (that gets overlooked alot) are the balljoints. I have seen it a few times where they can heat up, metal expands, and they can also start feeling notchy and start catching. Just trying to think of anything and everything...

Same here! I put one in my Firebird and it was a tremendous difference.


No problem at all! You would want to use the P/S arm for this box.


Thanks Josh..

[TheBandit]

We use (and offer both) the TurnOne and Borgeson boxes on our cars. They're both extremely nice pieces that work very well.

Turnone - Offered in both a 12.7:1 or 10:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/turn-one-600-series-steering-box/

Borgeson - Offered in a 12.7:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/borgeson-12.7-1-600-series-steering-box/

Let me know if you have any questions on anything!

Do both the Turnone and Borgeson boxes use the same T-bar size on the 12.7:1 boxes? Turn one says they use a 0.210" T-bar, but I can't find info on the Borgeson box.
*EDIT* In the Q&A section on Summit Racing, Borgeson responded to questions stating "Box has an equivalent to a .210 torsion bar feel with a positive center and quick ratio." I'll take that as roughly equivalent to the Turn One box, but curious to hear feedback from anyone that's tried both.

[kimosabi]

We use (and offer both) the TurnOne and Borgeson boxes on our cars. They're both extremely nice pieces that work very well.

Turnone - Offered in both a 12.7:1 or 10:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/turn-one-600-series-steering-box/

Borgeson - Offered in a 12.7:1 ratio - https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/borgeson-12.7-1-600-series-steering-box/

Let me know if you have any questions on anything!

Josh, whats the turn radius on these boxes? My 70's stock steering box was like a tractor, awesome steering radius. Replaced it with a refurb box that was quicker but had way less steering radius. It's great on the track and roads but parking is so much less than before it's a pain to park in tight areas. I only replaced the box, all else original serviced parts.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Do both the Turnone and Borgeson boxes use the same T-bar size on the 12.7:1 boxes? Turn one says they use a 0.210" T-bar, but I can't find info on the Borgeson box.
*EDIT* In the Q&A section on Summit Racing, Borgeson responded to questions stating "Box has an equivalent to a .210 torsion bar feel with a positive center and quick ratio." I'll take that as roughly equivalent to the Turn One box, but curious to hear feedback from anyone that's tried both.
I just now saw your question, sorry bud! I have been told that the torsion bar in the Borgeson piece is a .210" as well.

Josh, whats the turn radius on these boxes? My 70's stock steering box was like a tractor, awesome steering radius. Replaced it with a refurb box that was quicker but had way less steering radius. It's great on the track and roads but parking is so much less than before it's a pain to park in tight areas. I only replaced the box, all else original serviced parts.
The box itself is right at a 2.5" turn (lock to lock) box. As far as the actual turning radius, that depends on the car and the suspension setup. The steering stops/steering arms on the control arms are typically what lock everything up before the box stops turning.

[stab6902]

The steering boxes themselves also have stops built into them. The desirable FE2 third gen Camaro steering box for example has 64 degrees of pitman arm travel, whereas a stock Chevelle steering box has 87 degrees of travel. This difference will definitely be noticeable in parking situations. You generally run into problems when putting a "small car" steering box in a "big car." Big cars need more pitman arm travel to maintain a reasonable turning circle due to their longer wheelbase.

There's a table with all the details here: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0901-gm-steering-box-upgrade/

[kimosabi]

The steering boxes themselves also have stops built into them. The desirable FE2 third gen Camaro steering box for example has 64 degrees of pitman arm travel, whereas a stock Chevelle steering box has 87 degrees of travel. This difference will definitely be noticeable in parking situations. You generally run into problems when putting a "small car" steering box in a "big car." Big cars need more pitman arm travel to maintain a reasonable turning circle due to their longer wheelbase.

There's a table with all the details here: https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0901-gm-steering-box-upgrade/

Thank you, definitely the internal stop difference in my case as I mentioned earlier, only difference then from now is the box.

[kimosabi]

I just now saw your question, sorry bud! I have been told that the torsion bar in the Borgeson piece is a .210" as well.

The box itself is right at a 2.5" turn (lock to lock) box. As far as the actual turning radius, that depends on the car and the suspension setup. The steering stops/steering arms on the control arms are typically what lock everything up before the box stops turning.

So what I should ask is: Do you know the output/pitman shaft turning amount of degrees on those two boxes you offer?

[Jeff_G]

The Borgeson 800130 power steering box has 88 degrees of total available rotation.

[kimosabi]

Jeff G, thank you.

[TheBandit]

Has anybody tried or wished they had a heavier feel than what the .210 t-bar provides? I've seen .235 mentioned a few times, but not sure if it's too heavy for parking lot situations with a street car.

[TheBandit]

I found a good deal on an new, open-box (pun?) 12.7:1 Sweet Mfg "sportsman" box with a 235 t-bar. This is a heavier t-bar than the standard Turn One / DSE, Borgesson and FE2 boxes which all use 210 t-bars, but I decided to give it a try. I'll report back after I have it installed. According to this site (https://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref29.html), my current box should be a variable ratio 16-12.4:1 w/ a 195 t-bar. I measured 13.8:1 over a two-turn range, which is consistent with the average ratio. I have no idea if the t-bar is actually 195 but it's definitely pinky-like steering. I can't wait to try out this new box. Hopefully I haven't gone too heavy for daily street use.

For reference, he's a video of how I measured my steering box ratio. If I had measured along different points in the steering travel, I could evaluate if the ratio is variable.


https://youtu.be/Lz60gUXCEwM