Theoretical Idea for a custom build.

[The Stig]

A little history into my theory and how it came to be. Skip to the end paragraph for the actual question(s).

My buddy and I were looking at cars for the LeMons race (take a car under $1,000, add a rollcage and go racing) and we found an already caged Volvo V70R for sale for a very reasonable price... without the engine.

So naturally we started talking about engine swapping everything from the stock 5-cylinder? to a turbo Ecotech and of course a 5.0/350/big-block and how we'd lose the AWD but gain awesomeness and cool points at a race that doesn't really matter much. Then I started talking about a Pontiac 400 I have at home just sitting around attached to a TH400. Of course the first problem is, where do you mount a large engine and tranny NOT meant to go into a car like the Volvo. So we started talking about trans-mounting for a rear mounted, RWD car and how fun it would be.

Then I talked about mounting the tranny straight to the rear axle and bypassing the driveshaft for a true mid-engine, RWD station wagon. Bypassing the driveshaft has to be more responsive and less loss of power right?. On top of that, the heaviest part of the car is in basically the exact middle of the car and would have to be mounted to allow the tranny to be parallel with the rear axle input so the COG would be very low (lower than the stock mounted engine I would assume) so you have better weight distribution as well. The engine we were talking about is carbureted so you could attach a "snorkel" and cut out a hole in the roof and have a big ram air intake where the faster you drive, the more air would be "forced" in. Sure there are linkage problems, and the radiator and such would have to stay in the grill, but why not? Why are there no cars built like this? Would it be beneficial if we were to build such a contraption? Yes, money is always a large factor, but I can't find many cons in a setup like this aside from "it's just not done".

[cornfedbill]

I believe, if you run the numbers, connecting the transmission to the rear end will make the drivetrain higher not lower. The mid-mounted configuration would be a big benefit though. I would consider an Audi engine/transaxle since the work to connect the engine to the half-shafts is already done. The setup is longitudinal with the transaxle behind the engine. It's just not carbureted.

You may need a donut instead of a universal joint. These are now becoming more common and are on many BMW products. Many smaller formula racers use them.

This looks interesting.

[jlcustomz]

First issue with that thought my eyeball tape measure sees is a v-8 attached to a th400 would about need to be in the front seat for the trans tailshaft to be in front of the rear diff.
Mounting high enough to use a v-drive from the back would ruin handling as well as the v-drive would ruin the budget. An olds toronado trans could help things, but on top of hard to find, think they were weak.

For the mostpart , all the extra crap involved with such a swap such as linkage, radiator, etc really isn't the most deterring part that makes these swaps so not common. it's a suitable trans.
As Bill mentioned, an Audi engine, trans could more readily fit, but not carbureted. The wiring- ouch.

Since this is a way out there theoretical thought of a build anyway, here's another far out thought that somewhat has been done in other 4 door vehicles. Remove dash , extend steering, & move dash & driver seating position to backseat area. Then engine can be way backset. While you're at it , modify some Schoenfeld 180 degree sbc headers to fit the olds & exit passenger side as they're made to set up. The sound alone will get attention.

As much as I like cool, odd & different functional projects, I didn't want to just be negative about the first thought, so here's another.
Are you as crazy as me???

[The Stig]

First issue with that thought my eyeball tape measure sees is a v-8 attached to a th400 would about need to be in the front seat for the trans tailshaft to be in front of the rear diff.

Really? I figured a longer station wagon platform would work but this is why it's theoretical since I have no clue about actual numbers.

For the mostpart , all the extra crap involved with such a swap such as linkage, radiator, etc really isn't the most deterring part that makes these swaps so not common. it's a suitable trans.
As Bill mentioned, an Audi engine, trans could more readily fit, but not carbureted. The wiring- ouch.


Since this is a way out there theoretical thought of a build anyway, here's another far out thought that somewhat has been done in other 4 door vehicles. Remove dash , extend steering, & move dash & driver seating position to backseat area. Then engine can be way backset. While you're at it , modify some Schoenfeld 180 degree sbc headers to fit the olds & exit passenger side as they're made to set up. The sound alone will get attention.

That's a cool idea too. Would be hilarious to move it a little further and put the driver like in the 3rd row... just because.

As much as I like cool, odd & different functional projects, I didn't want to just be negative about the first thought, so here's another.


Are you as crazy as me???

I appreciate the kooky ideas. If I remember correctly, some guy took a 02ish camaro and welded the body panels upside down to make the car look complete but rolled over on the the roof and went racing in it. THAT'S my kind of project, heck I love the idea of doing that to a street car.

[jlcustomz]

I googled the vr70 wagon.https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=623&ei=kEWSXMHTF4Ps5gKFxLi4Dg&q=volvo+v70r+wagon&oq=volvo+v70r&gs_l=img.1.2.35i39j0l9.12125.18656..22508...0.0..0 .73.607.10......2....1..gws-wiz-img.....0.THEGGts5EW4
My eyeball still says no. Back door is curved to clear wheel. Extra room is after rear wheels.
Also forgot to mention 1 Cadillac 4 door I saw modified similarly had the windshield moved back along with the dash for the super long hood/ 2 door appearance. Lot more work though.
All this being said, since this is a race car, gutting dash & stock firewall & getting another 4 to12" of backset would make a huge difference. This would be much easier to make a reality. And if you do this, gotta do a 180 degree header setup for sound.
https://www.schoenfeldheaders.com/180-crossover1.html
Nick Kautz has a 302 ford, soon to be LS powered car with is own headers in several video's. His is the loudest. Schoenfeld 180 race headers are pretty cheap.I think the olds & sbc are same firing order, so not too bad to remake flanges & realign front pipes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbYJJo62nOo&t=136s

EDIT, see another mid engine project just popped up, but this would be an expensive monumental task. Setback firewall would get you racing much sooner though. At some point we all need to decide how much time to spend building vs getting out & enjoying.
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/130876-1979-quot-Transmarrow-quot-Mid-engine-LQ9-build

[cornfedbill]

Put the driver in the current engine compartment and the engine in the passenger compartment. It was not uncommon in old dragsters and lakers.

If you can find one, a Corvair transaxle might do the trick. They aren't terribly strong, but should be enough for a LeMons car.