Holley Terminator X

[65 drop top]

Hi, I’m looking for some reviews on the Holley Terminator X or Terminator X Max. Link for the kits here https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_x/ . Seems to be a good compromise between cost and features. I’d be using it on a LS3 crate engine with manual trans. Thanks.

[Josh@Ridetech]

It may be a little bit before you see some reviews popping up with the parts just dropping yesterday. I'm excited to see some feedback myself though.

[WILWAXU]

Very likely the route I will be going. I like that it's plug and play, but has the ability to expand.

[Typhoon1015]

Based on the user manual, this is a glorified holley sniper system for ls motors. Think of it as holley's answer to the fitech ultimate LS kit they have had out for a while. It will cater to the amateur/mildly technical customer, but not any replacement or better version of their hp and dominator series. It definitely has its place and will sell good as long as there are not major quality control issues.

[andrewb70]

Based on the user manual, this is a glorified holley sniper system for ls motors. Think of it as holley's answer to the fitech ultimate LS kit they have had out for a while. It will cater to the amateur/mildly technical customer, but not any replacement or better version of their hp and dominator series. It definitely has its place and will sell good as long as there are not major quality control issues.

The positioning of the new X system is clearly aimed at the LS swap market. You get some of the features of the HP and Dominator, but not all. I just read through the whole manual, and as far as I can tell, this will serve 99% of LS swaps. The Dominator has many advanced features, but unless you are building a turbo pro-mod car, they are not needed.

Andrew

[65 drop top]

Thanks guys. So really, this sounds pretty good for a basic LS swap, even if it has a single power adder. The PWM fan is nice too. It sounds like it’ll do everything I need, plus some. Now the real question is how about reliability? I realize this product is new so it hasn’t been tested much yet in the real world. I’ve been leaning towards the GMPP stuff for reliability and ease of replacement should the need arise. But the Holley looks very interesting, and especially now that is comparable in price to all of the other LS swap harnesses out there.

[andrewb70]

Thanks guys. So really, this sounds pretty good for a basic LS swap, even if it has a single power adder. The PWM fan is nice too. It sounds like it’ll do everything I need, plus some. Now the real question is how about reliability? I realize this product is new so it hasn’t been tested much yet in the real world. I’ve been leaning towards the GMPP stuff for reliability and ease of replacement should the need arise. But the Holley looks very interesting, and especially now that is comparable in price to all of the other LS swap harnesses out there.

The system isn't even on sale yet, as far as I can see. But Holley has had a really good track record in the last few years. I tried to download the software for the X but it does not seem to be available on their website yet.

Andrew

[65 drop top]

The system isn't even on sale yet, as far as I can see. But Holley has had a really good track record in the last few years. I tried to download the software for the X but it does not seem to be available on their website yet.

Andrew

According to Holley it’s in stock and ready to ship, at least the DBW w/o trans control, https://www.holley.com/products/ls_power/ls_efi_systems/parts/550-931 . But I don’t need it just yet, I’m doing a frame off resto/rotisserie and am still collecting parts and doing sheet metal work. Unfortunately my project is taking way longer than I’d hoped for, this little thing called work keeps taking up all my car time :hand:

[andrewb70]

It is possible that support is lagging behind with posting the software to their website. If you are in no rush, sit back and wait for first hand experience to filter down. I am eventually going to install an auto trans in my GTO and the X is now at the top of the list.

Andrew

[stevenb8]

I watched two videos on this and was online when they did the initial release.. This is a great little all in one system.. It's covers 99% of the people doing conversions (as already mentioned). It has boost control, nitrous control, 4 inputs (no more no less.. if you want more inputs must go to Dominator series).

They are releasing more part numbers soon for hybrid builders like myself with custom applications (poor mans ls3, bored 6.0, ls3 heads, 24x, and ev6 injectors). You can also buy the X version with trans and DBW control and not use in case you want to upgrade later. They are offering $100 off right now also and can be bought directly from holley. Summit/jegs do not have them listed yet.

It was mentioned that the software may be available this weekend or next week.

[andrewb70]

Software was released today

https://www.holley.com/support/resources/#Fuel_Injection

Andrew

[andrewb70]

So yesterday I had a chance to look through the X software in some detail. The general interface is exactly the same as the regular Holley software. As Doug noted, there are pro-downs for Ford and Dodge, which means Terminator X systems will be available for Coyote and Hemi swaps.

I will try to address some questions that were raised in this thread, in no particular order.

There is a speedometer out, but just as the Dominator it is tied in with the Transmission ICF. So this feature will only be available on the Terminator Max. The speedo output is configured the same way as Dominator and there is a place to input tire diameter and gear ratio and the PPM output value is user defined.

There is no dedicated speed input per say, but again, when used with an auto trans the ECU will get a speed signal from the stock 4L60/70/80 VSS. If using a manual transmission, speed input gets more tricky. A dedicated vehicle speed input needs to be created, but it can only be configured with a Hall effect (3 wire) speed sensor. This is the same as the HP, while the Dominator can accommodate a 2 wire (VR type) speed sensor.

Inputs can be configured as any type (+, -, thermistor, etc), however outputs are limited to either ground or PWM-. The two fan outputs do use two of the 4 available outputs. This can be mitigated by doing PWM fan control which would only use 1 output (but allow dual fans at variable speed).

Injector end angle can be set with a table, same as Dom and HP. There are individual cylinder trims for fuel and spark. DBW has the same tuning as on the Dominator. There is a long list of pre-programmed injector choices and also the ability to program custom parameters. So most injectors can be used as long as they are high impedance.

Those are the basics, but if anyone has specific questions, I'd be happy to dig deeper.

Andrew

[130fe]

Andrew does the Holley system (whichever one), have a check engine light like the factory stuff does? Are they easy to trouble shoot malfunctions with? I talked to one of their reps on the phone a couple of days ago and he told me there is a series of LEDs on the PCM or something like that.

[andrewb70]

Andrew does the Holley system (whichever one), have a check engine light like the factory stuff does? Are they easy to trouble shoot malfunctions with? I talked to one of their reps on the phone a couple of days ago and he told me there is a series of LEDs on the PCM or something like that.

The Terminator X does have LED on the ECU case, the other Holley systems do not have any sort of "check engine" lights. Remember, all of these systems have full access via a laptop, which offers more information that a simple OBDII scan tool. You can also datalog and review the logs to spot potential issues. The data stream can also be viewed live, as the vehicle is being driven. So one person can drive, whole another person monitors and makes changes. Any changes to the tune are done in real time, so there is no "flashing" of the ECU, like a stock system.

The terminator X also comes with a 3.5" display that shows live sensor data in addition to having the ability to change various parameters of the tune. However, using a laptop offers access to more advanced features, like configuring I/Os, advanced tables, etc...

Andrew

[carbuff]

You can create a 'warning light' with the Holley systems. It requires allocating one of the precious outputs though. On my system I have a red light on my dash that is driven from one of the outputs. You can set 'caution' and 'warning' limits on many of the gauges (temps, voltage, pressures, etc). You can then turn on the output / light based on any of these going into a warning zone.

[Guado1]

Does this system allow for plug and play of their digital dashes?

[andrewb70]

Does this system allow for plug and play of their digital dashes?

Yes

[Guado1]

Are you able to use standard style gauge clusters from lsx cars with this?

Outside of using the holley dashes Im really at a loss on what gauges can be used.

[andrewb70]

Are you able to use standard style gauge clusters from lsx cars with this?

Outside of using the holley dashes Im really at a loss on what gauges can be used.

Saying "LSx" cars is not precise enough. Do you have a particular car in mind?

Generally speaking, if the car in question has CAN gauges, they will not work with any Holley system.

Andrew

[Barrrf]

I've got a termi x on the way currently. Shouldn't take too long to get hooked up and fired up. I'll give my review on it asap.

I'll say this about gauges. Any aftermarket gauge will work for nearly anything you put under the hood as long as you have sensor locations. It's kind of like a double check anyways. So the gauges operate independently of the ecu. Ideal? No. But it works great in my car.

[Guado1]

I apparently need to do more research. I was thinking a 4th gen firebird cluster for my 68.

What is CAN? Is that a style of connection?

- - - Updated - - -


I've got a termi x on the way currently. Shouldn't take too long to get hooked up and fired up. I'll give my review on it asap.

I'll say this about gauges. Any aftermarket gauge will work for nearly anything you put under the hood as long as you have sensor locations. It's kind of like a double check anyways. So the gauges operate independently of the ecu. Ideal? No. But it works great in my car.

I was refering to guages that will work off of the termi X pcm vs having to have additional sensors everywhere.

[andrewb70]

CAN is control area network. Google it. It's complicated. Holley has it's own CAN protocol and it is not compatible with GM CAN. If you want nice guages in your Firebird, see if Dakota Digital makes any, as they have the means to read Holley CAN and display the data.

Andrew

[Guado1]

CAN is control area network. Google it. It's complicated. Holley has it's own CAN protocol and it is not compatible with GM CAN. If you want nice guages in your Firebird, see if Dakota Digital makes any, as they have the means to read Holley CAN and display the data.

Andrew

Thanks for the info. I have been looking at the Dakota digitals also. Thats good to know!

-Eddie

[Barrrf]

I apparently need to do more research. I was thinking a 4th gen firebird cluster for my 68.

What is CAN? Is that a style of connection?

- - - Updated - - -



I was refering to guages that will work off of the termi X pcm vs having to have additional sensors everywhere.

I think its only compatible with its 7" digital dash currently. Not sure on that.

[andrewb70]

I think its only compatible with its 7" digital dash currently. Not sure on that.

Support for the 7" and 12" dash is coming very soon. Next firmware release.

Andrew

[Barrrf]

In case you were wondering the size difference between the X Max and a Gen 3 controller.........also, they say you need a 2" hole in the firewall to pass cables through if you plan on mounting the ECU inside the passenger compartment. I say it would have to be quite a bit bigger than that. I opted to mount on the fender tub. All cables could use about 6 more inches in length on the main harness and trans harness. Others, not sure yet.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2019/04/dfHwLJNh-1.jpg

[sodak65]

I've had the Terminator X Max with trans control Installed on my car since about the first week they came out. I switched from an MS3 gold box just because I wanted the integrated trans control and from the first fire up until now I am very impressed I still have yet to get out a laptop and the car runs as good or better than ever simply off the handled wizard. Eventually I'll get on the laptop and play around with boost control and pwm outputs for my fuel system and fans but just looking through the software it sure is nice and user friendly. Well worth the money IMO.

[65 drop top]

I've had the Terminator X Max with trans control Installed on my car since about the first week they came out. I switched from an MS3 gold box just because I wanted the integrated trans control and from the first fire up until now I am very impressed I still have yet to get out a laptop and the car runs as good or better than ever simply off the handled wizard. Eventually I'll get on the laptop and play around with boost control and pwm outputs for my fuel system and fans but just looking through the software it sure is nice and user friendly. Well worth the money IMO.
Great feedback. Based on your experience with the Holley, would you say it’ll need a professional tuner to go through it, or is it capable enough by itself?

[sodak65]

If a person fallows the directions and know what sensors they have and get the info plugged int correctly I think most people could plug it in fire it and forget it. If you know and understand your fuel and timing maps its very easy to adjust on your own. It's a great system so far.

[Barrrf]

7" dash firmware went live about an hour ago

https://www.holley.com/support/resources/#Fuel_Injection

[Barrrf]

Sooooo, Im wiring this up (plugging in connectors mostly) but like, what do I do with the alternator? I unplugged the original harness from the alt, the Terminator X has nothing that goes to the alt. Its a DR44G alternator and was assuming it required at least one of those ires for excitation?

[andrewb70]

Sooooo, Im wiring this up (plugging in connectors mostly) but like, what do I do with the alternator? I unplugged the original harness from the alt, the Terminator X has nothing that goes to the alt. Its a DR44G alternator and was assuming it required at least one of those ires for excitation?

Hey Bart,

Depending on what accessories you're using, I would either replace that alternator with an older 4 pin connector alternator or have a local alternator shop convert it.

The 2 pin alternator use a very sophisticated control strategy and a PWM+ signal from the ECU. The X can do the strategy, but it lacks the PWM+ outputs to do it.

The older 4 pin alternators work very well. The L terminal needs to go to a switched 12+ volt source, through a resister. Holley sells the pigtail with the resister already installed, PN 197-400. I would also wire the S terminal on the 4 pin connector and route that to the pain power distribution point in the whole system. Essentially the point where you're likely to see the most voltage drop. Once the alternator sees the drop, it will boost output. Work great and don't need the ECU.

Andrew

[andrewb70]

For those interested, I just made a video (part 1) covering the basics of the Terminator X software.


http://youtu.be/v5Otn-AyncE

If you find it useful, please like and subscribe and I will make more.

Andrew

[Barrrf]

Hey Bart,

Depending on what accessories you're using, I would either replace that alternator with an older 4 pin connector alternator or have a local alternator shop convert it.

The 2 pin alternator use a very sophisticated control strategy and a PWM+ signal from the ECU. The X can do the strategy, but it lacks the PWM+ outputs to do it.

The older 4 pin alternators work very well. The L terminal needs to go to a switched 12+ volt source, through a resister. Holley sells the pigtail with the resister already installed, PN 197-400. I would also wire the S terminal on the 4 pin connector and route that to the pain power distribution point in the whole system. Essentially the point where you're likely to see the most voltage drop. Once the alternator sees the drop, it will boost output. Work great and don't need the ECU.

Andrew

Thanks for the help. I read that the dr44g will default to 13.8 if the signal wires aren't hooked up. I also found this https://alternatorparts.com/ad244-self-exciting-voltage-regulator.html

That's a couple more options for someone who isn't ready to buy another alt. I know the dr44g fits in my application so I'm going to run it unwired until I figure out which others are the same size and buy another.

[Josh@Ridetech]

For those interested, I just made a video (part 1) covering the basics of the Terminator X software.


http://youtu.be/v5Otn-AyncE

If you find it useful, please like and subscribe and I will make more.

Andrew

Good video, Andrew. I'm ready to get mine in and fired up, I've got a lot of learning to do...

[andrewb70]

Good video, Andrew. I'm ready to get mine in and fired up, I've got a lot of learning to do...

Thanks Josh!

Part 2 is uploaded. I continue the basic software overview and cover the sensor ICF.


https://youtu.be/jkEMahR5HDE

Andrew

[Barrrf]

Got mine installed and running finally this weekend. ProTip, if you cant find your OEM injectors in the list in the wizard (and theyre on the HOlley supported injector list) then theyre probably in the other ignition injector list.

When you go through the wizard, it ask if youre 24x or 58x reluctor, the very next screen is Choose Your Injectors. You'll notice it says 24X tooth ign OEM injector sets at the top of the screen. I clicked around for a bit until I went back and selected 58x and went to the next screen and found my injectors. What I ended up doing was selecting the correct reluctor and picking a random injector. I finished the wizard and didnt start the car. I pulled the SD card out the handheld and went to the laptop and loaded up the file created by the wizard into the Terminator X software and changed to my correct injector type there.

[Motoracer838]

For those interested, I just made a video (part 1) covering the basics of the Terminator X software.


http://youtu.be/v5Otn-AyncE

If you find it useful, please like and subscribe and I will make more.

Andrew

Thanks for your efforts with the Terminator X, when It first came out, I saw it as the solution for a couple of my projects... with this info and info and parts being provided by Michael Noonan of EFI conection I know the X will do every thing I need

Joe

[andrewb70]

Just uploaded part 3 video for the Terminator X software.


https://youtu.be/v9YbvlKz5oM

In this video I cover some consideration that should be kept in mind when scaling the load and RPM axes for the fuel and spark tables. If you find these videos helpful, please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Andrew

[Rodknock]

Opening up this old thread with a question. I see the Terminator X Max will do DBW, but will it do dual DBW TB's if I were to run a crossram manifold like the Edelbrock? If not, I guess I would have to step up to the Dominator.

[andrewb70]

Opening up this old thread with a question. I see the Terminator X Max will do DBW, but will it do dual DBW TB's if I were to run a crossram manifold like the Edelbrock? If not, I guess I would have to step up to the Dominator.

If you need dual DBW, you need the Dominator, which is what I have on my Cougar.

Andrew

[Rodknock]

If you need dual DBW, you need the Dominator, which is what I have on my Cougar.

Andrew


OK, that's what I figured. Also do you know if cruise control can be operated by the Dominator, or is it something that is usually "stand alone"
I'm putting a TT LQ4 in my 69 Camaro, and I have a HUGE learning curve to go through with all this electronic stuff..:seizure:

Thank you for the help and info. I'll continue to keep reading and hopefully not ask too many stupid questions.

[andrewb70]

As far as I know, nobody has a working cruise control on the Dominator or any other Holley system.

Andrew

[GeoffP]

As far as I know, nobody has a working cruise control on the Dominator or any other Holley system.

Andrew

I think Dakota Digital's system can be made to work. I should know in a few weeks. I'm wiring my car now.

[Rodknock]

Cool!! Yeah, just curious. At the rate I'm going though, the government might mandate we go to electric cars :lol:

[SS Performance]

I was looking at the X MAX but it looks like it only has 1 O2 sensor. Is this correct?

[andrewb70]

I was looking at the X MAX but it looks like it only has 1 O2 sensor. Is this correct?

That is correct. The X Max adds transmission control and DBW. Even if running a manual transmission, I always recommend that people get the Max for the DBW. Also, the Max has the ability to take a VSS input from a stock T56 speed sensor. Having a speed input opens up useful tuning options.

Andrew

[Juice.Lee]

Well....I thought my Terminator X Max was pretty good until it stopped working....Apparently there is an issue with the LS1 style wiring harnesses that stops the fuel pump and injectors from working....I haven’t even out 5 miles on the car and my green wire went dead. No blown fuses, relay still clicks, just no power to the wire....Adding 12+to the wire allows the car to fire but it runs like crap....Holley is sending me a new wiring harness and I get the AWESOME experience of trying to install it with the engine already in the car.....I installed the original harness beforehand......If I had to do it all over again, I would use a stock PCM, reworked harness and a shop tune....About the same cost with less BS!

[Shiner]

Im using it with no problems, I recommend LSX Power Tuning in Brenham for Mail Order Stuff.

[andrewb70]

Well....I thought my Terminator X Max was pretty good until it stopped working....Apparently there is an issue with the LS1 style wiring harnesses that stops the fuel pump and injectors from working....I haven’t even out 5 miles on the car and my green wire went dead. No blown fuses, relay still clicks, just no power to the wire....Adding 12+to the wire allows the car to fire but it runs like crap....Holley is sending me a new wiring harness and I get the AWESOME experience of trying to install it with the engine already in the car.....I installed the original harness beforehand......If I had to do it all over again, I would use a stock PCM, reworked harness and a shop tune....About the same cost with less BS!

Did Holley say exactly what the issue is with the harness?

Andrew

[streetk14]

Bringing this thread back to see if anyone has any recent experience with the Terminator X setup for these engines. I’m debating between doing a Terminator X setup, or a factory E38 with a Speartech harness. I have experience with Holley’s tuning software as well as HP Tuners, so both will work for me. With the Holley, I’m most concerned with bugs and weird issues like have been mentioned above.

[Chevy Kid]

I have about 800 miles on my terminator x max in my 64 Nova with and lc9 and 4l60. Very happy so far. I’m not a tuner, but I’ve been learning, and the changes I’ve made have improved in the idle area. I really like some of the tunability around fan options, knock sensors, and trans control.

I too had reservations about the reliability of an aftermarket computer versus the gm e38. Time will tell. I need this car to be dead reliable!

[andrewb70]

I have about 800 miles on my terminator x max in my 64 Nova with and lc9 and 4l60. Very happy so far. I’m not a tuner, but I’ve been learning, and the changes I’ve made have improved in the idle area. I really like some of the tunability around fan options, knock sensors, and trans control.

I too had reservations about the reliability of an aftermarket computer versus the gm e38. Time will tell. I need this car to be dead reliable!

If I can help with the tuning, let me know.

Andrew

[GeoffP]

Digging up an old threat - reached out to Andrew via email. Hoping to use his services soon!

[Ross M]

Hey guys any update on cruise control? Has anyone had success yet?