Suspension and Brake Package

[Motohead]

Hi,

I have a 69 Camaro with factory front pw disc and rear drums. My first build put cut Hotkis springs, Hotki front & rear sways, derched rear leaf springs, poly bushings, subframe connecters and KYB shocks. Now I want to replace it with tube A-arms, larger vented/slotted pw discs all around, coil overs, and rack and pinion. I want a balance of performance that can control 500hp+ but also be a semi-daily driver for comfort. It's a really harsh ride right now with a lot of bump steer and POS pw steering. I will not be tracking the car so I also don't want to break the bank. I don't need sways. I currently run 17x8s but am contemplating putting 18s on the rear. My question is, what is the best place for a package deal that is reasonable. I'm can't drop 10k on suspension alone and I don't want a new clip either. Any suggestions? I also hear that tube AA don't require drop spindles and corrects bump steer. Is this correct? I will post this in the brake thread as well.

Thanks

[Josh@Ridetech]

Hi,

I have a 69 Camaro with factory front pw disc and rear drums. My first build put cut Hotkis springs, Hotki front & rear sways, derched rear leaf springs, poly bushings, subframe connecters and KYB shocks. Now I want to replace it with tube A-arms, larger vented/slotted pw discs all around, coil overs, and rack and pinion. I want a balance of performance that can control 500hp+ but also be a semi-daily driver for comfort. It's a really harsh ride right now with a lot of bump steer and POS pw steering. I will not be tracking the car so I also don't want to break the bank. I don't need sways. I currently run 17x8s but am contemplating putting 18s on the rear. My question is, what is the best place for a package deal that is reasonable. I'm can't drop 10k on suspension alone and I don't want a new clip either. Any suggestions? I also hear that tube AA don't require drop spindles and corrects bump steer. Is this correct? I will post this in the brake thread as well.

Thanks

For what you're wanting to do with the car, I would look into our coilover kit. Everything is designed to be bolted onto a factory subframe and create an all around great driving and handling car. : https://www.ridetech.com/applications/musclecars/1967-1969-camaro-firebird-coilover-system/

On our control arms, we have moved the balljoint positions to add more caster, put in delrin bushings, and added a lowered shock mount to run a longer shock for a better ride quality. We do use a tall drop spindle (still utilizes factory A/F body disc brake setups) to add negative camber gain. All of these pieces together are designed to give the car a 2" lowered stance compared to factory ride height. The shocks in the kit are our monotube HQ series that allow you to adjust the rebound dampening for your personal preference. Whether you're wanting a good cruising street car or are wanting to hit some corners, you can fine tune the valving for your liking. We also have a 1,000,001 mile warranty on them :cheers:.

As far as your car having bumpsteer right now, I'd say that has something to do with the cut lowering springs putting the car lower enough that your factory steering linkage is being put in a bad position. Just because the arm is tubular doesn't mean that it's going to correct bumpsteer, you have to have the correct steering arms/linkage to ensure that everything is optimized for no bumpsteer.

If you're trying to get away from bumpsteer, you'll want to stick with an upgraded steering box on the factory subframe. Because the subframe was built around the box, the position that the racks are mounted in worsen the bumpsteer, and take up more space coincidentally. We've used several of these on our builds and had great reviews (and kept the steering linkage in good geometry). https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/borgeson-12.7-1-600-series-steering-box/

Doing the four link in the rear would also help out the ride quality. You would free up suspension movement and have a much better handling car. Our 48 Hour Camaro has had the four link under it for years on the street and track, it's a great street cruiser when you're just going for a cruise but can also tear up the corners if you're feeling like some spirited driving.

We've also been packaging up some brakes with our kits so the customer knows everything will work 100% the way it is expected to. Here's a link to one of the Wilwood kits we've put together:
https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/wilwood-complete-dynapro-dynalite-brake-system-15-wheels/

Let me know if I can help out with anything!

[79-TA]

If you're trying to get away from bumpsteer, you'll want to stick with an upgraded steering box on the factory subframe. Because the subframe was built around the box, the position that the racks are mounted in worsen the bumpsteer, and take up more space coincidentally. We've used several of these on our builds and had great reviews (and kept the steering linkage in good geometry). https://www.ridetech.com/products/steering-and-brakes/borgeson-12.7-1-600-series-steering-box/



Please note what Josh said. Adding a steering rack to a stock first gen subframe is a great recipe for bump steer. The factory center link is bent to reach around the engine. A straight steering rack cannot do this in the same location and must be moved. Minimizing bump steer is all about getting the steering arm to follow the lower control arm's motion as closely as possibly so that suspension position doesn't change the relative steering input.

Also, the issues you're experiencing might not just be bump steer. Look into getting the basics right. Slop in the steering column mount, rag joint, steering linkages, and power steering box can make a car feel really bad. Worn out bushings and ball joints don't allow suspension and steering components to move as smoothly as they should. Poor alignment can make the car wander and want to find ruts more easily.

If you're not taking the car on the road course, stock style front disc brakes will make for a nice driver.

[c4racer2]

Also don’t overlook body mounts. I replaced worn out originals on my 71 with solid and the car tightened up and ride improved dramatically.

[Rod]

there is a lot here so start with the current set up and harsh ride........



cut Hotkis springs, Hotki front & rear sways, derched rear leaf springs, poly bushings, subframe connecters and KYB shocks. It's a really harsh ride right now with a lot of bump steer and POS pw steering.

the KYB shock (30+ year old technology) is compression based and design for a very light FACTORY spring.... the Hotchkis spring twice the rate of factory and the its cut, ramping the spring rate, these both create the harsh ride, modern shock design has learned with a heavy spring you need a rebound based shock, Hotchkis, ridetech, Viking, UMI, JRI, have all changed to that design....old company's like Monroe, KYB, some low end Koni, bilstein, Gabriel, still make the old compression base shock

a better shock will fix that



a lot of bump steer and POS pw steering.



fix the power steering and add the Ridetech tru turn





I also hear that tube AA don't require drop spindles and corrects bump steer. Is this correct?

NO arm fixes bump steer, and some companies arms have a dropped pocket to lower the car

here is my video on control arms

https://www.facebook.com/SuspensionGeek/videos/1837245289853346/


if you need more help I can walk you thru your questions

[Motohead]

I thought this had posted earlier. The brake kit is definitely on the list. Do I need anything else for the install that's not in the kit?

I've always had problems with the PS pump. It never fit right regardless of brackets or pumps I used. It always either leaked or has a loose belt. I wanted to get rid of it for a R&P. If I change the gearbox, how should I upgrade the PS?

Do you offer the front suspension package by itself? With tru-turn? I hesitate to put a four-link in partly because of cost and partly because I don't want to totally take away the classic out of the car. Do you offer a coilover for the rear?

[F-Body International]

Nice video Rod!

Motohead,
I'm no a pro tech support person but it sounds like your suspension is mismatched with the shocks. I would try one of the shock absorbers like Rod mentioned. Rebuilding your stock upper/lower control arms with good bushings and ball joints is an idea while staying on a budget. Global West offers their offset upper cross shaft with Del-A-Lum bushing kit. For brakes, I would just do Wilwood all the way around

[Motohead]

Thanks F-Body. I replaced the ball joints, steering components, and bushings when I did the suspension upgrade the first time. But, I do think it's mis-matched or old tech. I like the ridetech.com setup, but only need the front half. I think that would solve my issues.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Thanks F-Body. I replaced the ball joints, steering components, and bushings when I did the suspension upgrade the first time. But, I do think it's mis-matched or old tech. I like the ridetech.com setup, but only need the front half. I think that would solve my issues.

Let me know if you need help getting the front half together. We'll make sure we get you set up with the correct spring rates for what you're goals are for the car.