California modified exhaust anf excessive noise laws

[nokones]

I'm sure by now that everyone has heard or have read about the "New" California Exhaust Law(s) that took effect on January 1, 2019. There are three Vehicle Code statutes that applies to vehicles with excessive noise and/or modified exhaust on vehicles that are registered in California. To be clear on what is real deal here, the statutes (27150, 27150.2, and 27151 CVC) on excessive noise and modified exhaust are not new. These statutes have not been amended since 2003. What has changed is what enforcement document is going to be issued by a law enforcement officer. As of this year, the enforcement document no longer can be a "Fix-It Ticket" where you can have any law enforcement Officer sign it off and you mail it back into the issuing agency. Now, you will be issued a "Notice To Appear" (regular ol' citation) that you must correct and have the correction certified by a license smog station and be issued a certificate of compliance, and no doubt, there will be a fine for that citation when you go to court. How much, I don't know, that will depend on the court where the Notice To Appear is cited to.

Now, you know if a smog station is going to issue a certificate of compliance, they no doubt will probably check not only the noise, they more than likely will at least do a visual inspection of the entire exhaust and emission systems for compliance of all components. I wonder what are they going to do with cars that have engine swaps. In the past, they always required the systems that either was how the car came equipped from the factory or what the engine came equipped with from the factory if the engine year is later than the car's model year.

That might mean any engine emission systems that consisted of a, Electronics (ECM), Cat, Vapor, and/or Air Pump, will have to be equipped with that engine regardless if the car, regardless the car's model year, is exempt from a biennial smog inspection. So, will the LS swaps in older cars without all the original emissions systems for that engine cause a problem in getting a certificate of compliance. Hmmm, I bet it will.

Thoughts and Opinions are welcome.

[andrewb70]

Move out of California.

Andrew

[c4racer2]

1975 and older cars are smog exempt in CA - this doesn't change. there is no smog check required regardless of what engine is in the car.

But not sure how this may impact engine swaps in 1975+ cars.

And move out of CA does seem like a pretty solid suggestion the way things are going here!
Problem is a lot of other states seem to follow what CA does as far as smog rules and such.

[TheJDMan]

The way I understand it 75 and older cars being exempt is only applicable if the engine is also older than 75. What Kenny said above is that the emissions test is based on the latest year be it the car or the engine year. So take a first gen Camaro with an LS swap for example, it would appear that such a car would fall into the engine year category emissions requirements. This is how confusion gets started on the internet. Does anyone have an actual state statute that can be posted here for reference?

[ULTM8Z]

I've never had to smog my '71 Camaro since about the mid-90s when that pre-75 exemption went into effect.

though these days with the way California is going (to hell in a jandbasket), i wonder how much longer until these cars are just outlawed altogether.

[BonzoHansen]

https://www.semasan.com/legislative-alerts/california/fact-vs-fiction-californias-new-exhaust-noise-law?fbclid=IwAR1IFIDJCv2dDKX4T1eFepcHaNTHI7koF4EM5 Xw2nN4X2TRgHtRxJfBu0Gs

[Jaymzz]

My wife and I almost moved to California last year from a really good job offer I had. I was really worried about the car laws and so glad we didn't move there after this new law.
I feel bad for car enthusiasts that live in California.

[chevelletiger]

Move out of California.

Andrew

The weather is too nice to leave.
Bonzohasen,the link clears up the confusion.
Thank you.

[David Pozzi]

The first citation should be free of fines, since there is no way to have your car pre-tested. You have to be cited first, only then you are allowed to make an appointment with the referee.

[c4racer2]

With a pre 75 car with a later model motor - how would the DMV ever know that the car has a newer engine ? They never need to see or test the car because it is exempt.

[nokones]

Actually, I am moving out of California. The cost of living outside of California will give me more money to spend on go-fast parts.
Move out of California.

Andrew

[nokones]

DMV will never know. But, if you get cited under the new law change for excessive noise and/or modified exhaust, you will have to get a certificate of compliance from a smog station regardless what year your car is or exempt from the biennial inspection. Do you think when you take your car to the smog inspection station for that certification of compliance on the noise violation they are not going to have a blind eye on the emissions devices and systems?
With a pre 75 car with a later model motor - how would the DMV ever know that the car has a newer engine ? They never need to see or test the car because it is exempt.

[c4racer2]

ya - that becomes the slippery slope doesn't it? I don't like it. Wonder if you can just pay the fine and nothing else.

[Zachalanche]

Just another law that's overly ambitious but difficult to enforce. Unfortunately when laws are created that the vast majority of the population will break, the law becomes discriminatory whether intentional or not.

Just like the speed limit. every one is breaking it, so its up to the officer to pick who he likes the least. So, try to stay under the radar if your exhaust is capable of being loud. .......even if its stock.

[ULTM8Z]

DMV will never know. But, if you get cited under the new law change for excessive noise and/or modified exhaust, you will have to get a certificate of compliance from a smog station regardless what year your car is or exempt from the biennial inspection. Do you think when you take your car to the smog inspection station for that certification of compliance on the noise violation they are not going to have a blind eye on the emissions devices and systems?

i can just picture it...

"I'm sorry sir... you need to remove that engine that's producing 1/10th the emissions of the original engine, and then put the original engine back in".

the ironic thing is they should be applauding us for updating the engines in these old cars. Even my Miniramed Gen1 SBC is getting 28-29 mpg on the highway now.

[cornfedbill]

That's one more reason I live in Michigan. No emission checks. No exhaust system checks.

[c4racer2]

the weather is pretty comparable between MI and CA from what I understand too!!

:cheers:

[Zachalanche]

i can just picture it...

"I'm sorry sir... you need to remove that engine that's producing 1/10th the emissions of the original engine, and then put the original engine back in".

the ironic thing is they should be applauding us for updating the engines in these old cars. Even my Miniramed Gen1 SBC is getting 28-29 mpg on the highway now.

I'm thinking common sense is not part of the equation. What a world it would be if it was.

[Bugzilla]

I really dont think that the muscle car group is going to get messed with. More just the riced out Hondas and such, you know, the Fast and Furious type cars. I mean how many of you have had a cop pull up beside you and then gave you a thumbs up? Its happened to me a couple times. How many riced out Hondas would get the same treatment? None.

[eville]

I really dont think that the muscle car group is going to get messed with. More just the riced out Hondas and such, you know, the Fast and Furious type cars. I mean how many of you have had a cop pull up beside you and then gave you a thumbs up? Its happened to me a couple times. How many riced out Hondas would get the same treatment? None.

I guess we’ll see what happens outside good guys events this year. Will be an easy way for cities to score a cops annual salary in a few hours.

[65 drop top]

The first citation should be free of fines, since there is no way to have your car pre-tested. You have to be cited first, only then you are allowed to make an appointment with the referee.

This logic would require CA to have some common sense. Unfortunately, the politicians here have none.

[weatherman]

DMV will never know. But, if you get cited under the new law change for excessive noise and/or modified exhaust, you will have to get a certificate of compliance from a smog station regardless what year your car is or exempt from the biennial inspection. Do you think when you take your car to the smog inspection station for that certification of compliance on the noise violation they are not going to have a blind eye on the emissions devices and systems?

My understanding is that ‘75 and earlier vehicles are only exempt from the biennial inspections, and that they’re technically still supposed to have all of the original smog equipment like the PCV system, EVAP system, air injectors, and cats. If it’s had an engine swap, I believe it’s also supposed to follow all the BAR rules for swaps.

With no inspections for these cars, there’s minimal chance that anyone gets in trouble for their engine swaps or elimination of the smog equipment. However, I’m sure that if you have to go to the BAR referee station for exhaust noise, they’ll look at everything. Also, if enough pre-‘75 vehicles show up with swaps or with all smog gear deleted, I’m sure that word of it will make it’s way to Sacramento and could eventually lead to an elimination of the smog test exemption for the older vehicles.

Going to the referee for sound could indeed be a “slippery slope” for all of us.

[CarlC]

My understanding is that ‘75 and earlier vehicles are only exempt from the biennial inspections, and that they’re technically still supposed to have all of the original smog equipment like the PCV system, EVAP system, air injectors, and cats. If it’s had an engine swap, I believe it’s also supposed to follow all the BAR rules for swaps.

With no inspections for these cars, there’s minimal chance that anyone gets in trouble for their engine swaps or elimination of the smog equipment. However, I’m sure that if you have to go to the BAR referee station for exhaust noise, they’ll look at everything. Also, if enough pre-‘75 vehicles show up with swaps or with all smog gear deleted, I’m sure that word of it will make it’s way to Sacramento and could eventually lead to an elimination of the smog test exemption for the older vehicles.

Going to the referee for sound could indeed be a “slippery slope” for all of us.

I believe it used to be that way. On the CA DMV website it specifically states that vehicles pre '75 are exempt from inspection, but no reference to having the vehicle inspected and sniffed if a LEO deems it necessary. That used to be in the wording, and it may still be there, but buried somewhere.

[ddavisart]

Motortrend did an article about it recently. To me sounds like 1975 and earlier cars are exempt from this new change, just like they are from smog checks. Quote below from MT.

"In conclusion, if you own a car that requires a smog certificate in order to register it (1976 and newer) and you have an exhaust that is loud enough to give law enforcement a reason to pull you over, you're getting fined! For now, this amendment won't have any effect on pre-smog-era cars (1975 and older)."

https://www.motortrend.com/news/californias-new-exhaust-noise-bill-what-you-need-to-know/

[c4racer2]

our cars are historic landmarks! Leave us alone Sacramento!!

[Build-It-Break-It]

https://www.change.org/p/nullify-fines-for-loud-mufflers-ab-1824-section-4-in-california/psf/share?source_location=combo_psf&psf_variant=combo

Just passing the info.

[conmax]

it doesn't do much good to tell CA residents to move out of CA to solve their ticket problems.

[chiva]

I served my time in California for three years. I’m so glad I got out of there. Yeah, the weather is great. But, the traffic and cost-of-living is horrible! I would rather live in rural North Dakota.

[TheJDMan]

A lot of "I think", "It's my understanding", "As I understand it", etc. Does anyone have a link to the actual statute?

[nokones]

A lot of "I think", "It's my understanding", "As I understand it", etc. Does anyone have a link to the actual statute?

If you're looking for the statute on what enforcement document the Law Enforcement Officer has to issue regarding an excessive noise or exhaust system modification, it is in Section 40610 of the California Vehicle Code (CVC).

For your convenience, this is the link to that statute: http://www.leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&division=17.&title=&part=&chapter=2.&article=4.

[Rolling_Thunder]

1975 and older cars are smog exempt in CA - this doesn't change. there is no smog check required regardless of what engine is in the car.

But not sure how this may impact engine swaps in 1975+ cars.

And move out of CA does seem like a pretty solid suggestion the way things are going here!
Problem is a lot of other states seem to follow what CA does as far as smog rules and such.


Yeah - but you can live a lot better pretty much anywhere else. Housing here is out of touch and ready to collapse, too many restrictions on cars, guns, gender pronouns, etc etc - and OMG the taxes! It seems like we get taxed for everything... gas is $3.30 at my local station - in MD where im stationed it's $2.07 -- Taxes for plastic bags at the grocery store, taxes for breathing, car registration being based on mileage --- screw all that - I am planning on leaving very soon myself.

[nokones]

Yeah - but you can live a lot better pretty much anywhere else. Housing here is out of touch and ready to collapse, too many restrictions on cars, guns, gender pronouns, etc etc - and OMG the taxes! It seems like we get taxed for everything... gas is $3.30 at my local station - in MD where im stationed it's $2.07 -- Taxes for plastic bags at the grocery store, taxes for breathing, car registration being based on mileage --- screw all that - I am planning on leaving very soon myself.

Also, don't forget about the new tax coming our way, 25 cents on a drinking cup.

I'm so glad that I am buying and moving to Arizona.

[Bugzilla]

Dont forget CA also wants to charge us tax for using text messages!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/12/tech/california-text-tax/index.html

[Dayton]

The weather is too nice to leave.

Only reason I'm still here. 1 hour ago I was walking my dog in a t shirt.

[Zachalanche]

Gotta love the extra tax for considering all trucks commercial vehicles........even ford rangers.....you know because of all the weight.

[groho]

The new noise laws are targeting newer cars with modified exhausts; removing the cat's, resonators, etc, and the coffee can rice burners.
As long as you're running a street legal 92db muffler (which I am running in a 66 coupe) it shouldn't be a problem. Running a 98db in a 2014 5.0 or SS is gonna draw attention. As for pre75, having dealt with BAR, the year of the car is what matters, they stopped going by engine year back in the late 80's. So an LS or coyote in an early coupe shouldn't be an issue...because the car is smog exempt. In CA, the rules are simple, if it came that way from the factory (post 76) then it's required, PERIOD, yes, down to the properly colored vacuum check valve. This is funny, the 78-79 Trans Ams and Z28s are a big craze, I've seen too many folks make an out of state auction purchase and scratch their heads when they fail CA smog test and can't register the car because of a check valve. Deviate without an EO part number it becomes illegal. Don't break the rules, and then complain about it when you get caught. Here's a great example of our state's creative revenue generating ideas, Ive owned a diesel for years and was smog exempt for years, now its irritating to have a tech lift my hood, say yep its all there, and then hand them $75 for a 1 min inspection, but it's the rules.

[Gaarg]

Guys, at the expense of passing inspection on used cars. Tell me, maybe there are some tips? And what about the cost? Does it depend on the brand of car? And , I read several articles about vehicle inspection app (https://www.driveroo.com/) that help pass the inspection. Maybe someone used?

[pollusky]

You guys should see this video. About the noise law.

https://youtu.be/xUa1jIVlQ_o

[ChrisNew]

Has anyone been busted for this so far?

[andrewb70]

It seems to me that the new reform is rather well thought out and has good legal grounds. If any problems arise, you can always turn to a law firm that protects your rights.

I don't even know where to start to comment on this...So glad that you like your wise overlords telling you exactly how to live your life.

Andrew

[ilikeike]

It seems to me that the new reform is rather well thought out and has good legal grounds. If any problems arise, you can always turn to a law firm that protects your rights.



I don't even know where to start to comment on this...So glad that you like your wise overlords telling you exactly how to live your life.

Andrew





Guilty ! until proven innocent, right ? lol.

[NCC-1701]

Actually, I am moving out of California. The cost of living outside of California will give me more money to spend on go-fast parts.


Move out of California.

Andrew

That's what we just did. My wife and I kept the same jobs, make the same money, pay way less taxes and our kids will get a better education. We had a 3/3 with 1700 sq ft on 0.3 acre in CA with a one car garage. For the exact same price in VA we have 7000 sq ft on 0.5 acre and a 3 car garage. Now I don't have to deal with stupid car or gun laws and I have more money than ever to spend on toys. I understand a lot of people are afraid to make the jump but I will tell you from personal experience, the faster you get out the happier you will be.

[nokones]

I only made one mistake by moving out of California to Sun City West AZ, I should have moved many years ago. I'll never make that mistake again.

[67-LS1]

You never have to smog a pre-1975 car in California, regardless of the engine year. You could still get busted for excessive noise though.
And on 75 and later cars, there are 10’s of thousands of parts available that are CARB approved for use on emission controlled engines that can increase performance and not adversely affect the emissions output. With all of the new tech on new engines, there is no reason you can’t make more HP without increasing emissions. The new engines are that good.
Improved performance and economy are why we swap the newer tech into our older cars, right?

[ilikeike]

You never have to smog a pre-1975 car in California, regardless of the engine year. You could still get busted for excessive noise though.
And on 75 and later cars, there are 10’s of thousands of parts available that are CARB approved for use on emission controlled engines that can increase performance and not adversely affect the emissions output. With all of the new tech on new engines, there is no reason you can’t make more HP without increasing emissions. The new engines are that good.
Improved performance and economy are why we swap the newer tech into our older cars, right?

Modifying the engine on a pre-75 car isn't the issue. The vast majority of muscle cars and hot rods are pre-75, the issue is making 500-600+ HP and meeting this new sound law on an old car, and paying the penalties and inspection fees if a cops ear thinks your car may be too loud.

[67-LS1]

There is no need to make more noise than is necessary to make the HP you want. New cars make 700-800 HP with catalytic converters and mufflers that meet current noise requirements. And sound good.
No reason an older car can’t do the same. IMO, only blatant, obnoxious vehicles will be ticketed.

[andrewb70]

There is no need to make more noise than is necessary to make the HP you want. New cars make 700-800 HP with catalytic converters and mufflers that meet current noise requirements. And sound good.
No reason an older car can’t do the same. IMO, only blatant, obnoxious vehicles will be ticketed.

And who decides what "blatant and obnoxious?"

[ilikeike]

So you prefer no more guys with 6-71 blown 582" big blocks, or 32 coupes with 50s style flat head V-8 popping off... ok I got it, every one get an LS. Even better every one get a Tesla Model S.

[andrewb70]

So you prefer no more guys with 6-71 blown 582" big blocks, or 32 coupes with 50s style flat head V-8 popping off... ok I got it, every one get an LS. Even better every one get a Tesla Model S.

I prefer the government not tell me how to live my life.

[67-LS1]

Well I assume the cop who would write the ticket would decide (so it is a very subjective opinion) on what is blatant and obnoxious. Like it’s always been, right?
The law has been on the books since 2003? The difference now would be the path to a remedy and the cost of a ticket.
I’m not against big blocks, blowers, big blocks WITH blowers. All are very cool. I’ve had loud cars before but never had a noise ticket. Same with my Harley. Loud as hell, never had a ticket.
IMO, as its been the law since 2003, a cop would have to be a major D*** to write a noise ticket. And as it’s probably always been since we all started to mess with cars, when you do see a cop, take your foot out of it and hope for the best.

[andrewb70]

So why have laws that are not enforced? Just so the wise overlords can pat themselves on the back, and signal to their subjects how virtuous they are?

[ilikeike]

Well I assume the cop who would write the ticket would decide (so it is a very subjective opinion) on what is blatant and obnoxious. Like it’s always been, right?
The law has been on the books since 2003? The difference now would be the path to a remedy and the cost of a ticket.
I’m not against big blocks, blowers, big blocks WITH blowers. All are very cool. I’ve had loud cars before but never had a noise ticket. Same with my Harley. Loud as hell, never had a ticket.
IMO, as its been the law since 2003, a cop would have to be a major D*** to write a noise ticket. And as it’s probably always been since we all started to mess with cars, when you do see a cop, take your foot out of it and hope for the best.

I agree, the cop has to be a D*** or you're just operating you vehicle in an irresponsible manner to get pulled over in the first place.

It just seems to me that Ca.gov has been pretty constant in there regulation and making it very difficult and costly to enjoy certain hobbies that they don't like or agree with, then turn right around and thumb their noses at other US.gov regulations. and ignore propositions that it's own Ca. citizens vote on, then come along with the loud exhaust BS.

We need a time out on anymore new regulations/laws.

[67-LS1]

So why have laws that are not enforced? Just so the wise overlords can pat themselves on the back, and signal to their subjects how virtuous they are?
Yeah, that’s the truth. But above my pay grade.

[Later-A-body]

it doesn't do much good to tell CA residents to move out of CA to solve their ticket problems.Yep. I live in California and I don't get hassled by the cops. Everyone loves to blow the smog check way out of proportion. If you lived here in southern California in the 70's and 80's you'd get it. Not being able to go outside and play at school because they called a stage 1 or stage 2 smog alert really sucked. I remember my chest hurting when I took a deep breath....at age 11, 12, etc, because of the bad air. Well there hasn't been any smog alerts called here in many years and there are many more cars here now, but they are all cleaner running. There are lots of people out here building cars within the rules mandated by the state.

[Revvv]

I don't plan on moving to Cali. I see that State as upside down and backwards. No offense to those that live there, it is beautiful, but there are too many restrictions and laws for me.

[68Formula]

Everyone loves to blow the smog check way out of proportion. If you lived here in southern California in the 70's and 80's you'd get it. Not being able to go outside and play at school because they called a stage 1 or stage 2 smog alert really sucked. I remember my chest hurting when I took a deep breath....at age 11, 12, etc, because of the bad air. Well there hasn't been any smog alerts called here in many years and there are many more cars here now, but they are all cleaner running. There are lots of people out here building cars within the rules mandated by the state.

It's not the smog check that improved it, its the emission regulations on new vehicles. A few states that had smog check have eliminated them because the number of violations and net affect were insignificant.

The service stations don't like doing them because it's not profitable (on a per hour rate they lose money), unless of course, they are unscrupulous and use the opportunity to sell someone parts they don't need. And it costs the owner money as well. Plus, on OBDII vehicles, the systems will set a MIL light if something's not right. That just leaves an insignificant number of people that might alter their vehicles in a way that produces more than when it was stock. It's not worth the emissions it takes for everyone to drive down to a service station yearly. Total waste.

It's also ridiculous that exemptions are based on a model year, rather than vehicle age. An "antique car" is considered 25years and older by the insurance. Why not use that instead? Not too many people driving around in cars older than 1994 on regular basis.

[67-LS1]

It's not the smog check that improved it, its the emission regulations on new vehicles. A few states that had smog check have eliminated them because the number of violations and net affect were insignificant.

The service stations don't like doing them because it's not profitable (on a per hour rate they lose money), unless of course, they are unscrupulous and use the opportunity to sell someone parts they don't need. And it costs the owner money as well. Plus, on OBDII vehicles, the systems will set a MIL light if something's not right. That just leaves an insignificant number of people that might alter their vehicles in a way that produces more than when it was stock. It's not worth the emissions it takes for everyone to drive down to a service station yearly. Total waste.

It's also ridiculous that exemptions are based on a model year, rather than vehicle age. An "antique car" is considered 25years and older by the insurance. Why not use that instead? Not too many people driving around in cars older than 1994 on regular basis.

I drive my 66 10-12k miles per year but I get your point. I’m not sure why the decision was made to roll the “smog exempt” instead of leaving it fixed at 1975 like it was for years. But around the same time they also switched smog checks to every other year, so that helped. Also, new cars don’t have to be tested for the first 5 years.
Most “smog shops” in California are “Test Only” and don’t do car repairs. And they get $30-50 bucks for what takes no more than 10 minutes of actual work. And they charge extra for the actual “Certificate”.? I think they love the business and compete for it, around here anyway.
If your MIL is on, you can’t be tested. They send you away to get your car fixed.
It sounds a lot more onerous than it is. And we do have WAY cleaner air.

[nokones]

In Arizona the smog check usually takes no more than 5 minutes at the most. They put you on the rollers, run it up for a few seconds, sniff you, closes your hood and you're done. $17.50, please, thank you, drive carefully.

[andrewb70]

In Arizona the smog check usually takes no more than 5 minutes at the most. They put you on the rollers, run it up for a few seconds, sniff you, closes your hood and you're done. $17.50, please, thank you, drive carefully.

Sounds like a revenue generation to me...

[nokones]

The $17.50 is a lot cheaper than the $59.95 for the smog inspection and the $8.50 for the certificate that you never see because it is electronic, in California where you really get a hosed. I never could figure out why the $8.50 hose job for the certificate that you never saw.

[CSG]

There is no need to make more noise than is necessary to make the HP you want. New cars make 700-800 HP with catalytic converters and mufflers that meet current noise requirements. And sound good.
No reason an older car can’t do the same. IMO, only blatant, obnoxious vehicles will be ticketed.

This is true but you are giving up power. I made 600rw through a set of GT500 mufflers. I made 685rw with no changes other than a set of magnaflow mufflers. I am not that fond of loud cars but from my experience you do cost hp by being quiet.

[67-LS1]

This is true but you are giving up power. I made 600rw through a set of GT500 mufflers. I made 685rw with no changes other than a set of magnaflow mufflers. I am not that fond of loud cars but from my experience you do cost hp by being quiet.
Absolutely agree. And IMO there is a difference between healthy sounding performance mufflers and obnoxious barely any muffler at all cars driving on the street.
I love the sound of a healthy engine with open headers but not driving through town. That’s high school stuff. I live in California and have had Magnaflows and Flowmasters on a multitude of cars and Thunderheaders on my Harleys and have never had a noise citation.