II Much Vent System install problem

[ddavisart]

Hey guys, the II much vent system uses a -6an ptfe hose which should be connected back to the fuel tank vent port. I have Ricks restomod stamped steel tank that has barbs on the tank for the vent, not a an fitting. Wondering if there is any other way to hook this up besides drilling into a new tank to add a an fitting. I looked around for some kind of adapter without much luck. Seems like there would be a solution for this since barbs are pretty common on fuel tanks. Anybody else run into this problem?

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I would likely just a -6AN to barb fitting on the vent and regular fuel hose to Rick's vent. I personally do not see PTFE hose as a requirement for that application.

You won't find something that will go on that barb on the tank and accept a PTFE 6AN directly.

[oleyeller]

You can use the new nylon 3/8 fuel hose like they use on newer cars, and then get a push lock AN fitting, heat the hose and shove it on....

[badazz81z28]

The threaded port on the tank is 1/4” NPT. Buy a NPT fitting to -6 AN adapter. No modifications to the tank required.

[badazz81z28]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220647b/

[badazz81z28]

Hey guys, the II much vent system uses a -6an ptfe hose which should be connected back to the fuel tank vent port. I have Ricks restomod stamped steel tank that has barbs on the tank for the vent, not a an fitting. Wondering if there is any other way to hook this up besides drilling into a new tank to add a an fitting. I looked around for some kind of adapter without much luck. Seems like there would be a solution for this since barbs are pretty common on fuel tanks. Anybody else run into this problem?


I have owned 3 ricks tanks and none of the have “barbs” all have 1/4” NPT. threads.

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Hey guys, the II much vent system uses a -6an ptfe hose which should be connected back to the fuel tank vent port. I have Ricks restomod stamped steel tank that has barbs on the tank for the vent, not a an fitting. Wondering if there is any other way to hook this up besides drilling into a new tank to add a an fitting. I looked around for some kind of adapter without much luck. Seems like there would be a solution for this since barbs are pretty common on fuel tanks. Anybody else run into this problem?


I have owned 3 ricks tanks and none of the have “barbs” all have 1/4” NPT. threads. Pics please.

[ddavisart]

The threaded port on the tank is 1/4” NPT. Buy a NPT fitting to -6 AN adapter. No modifications to the tank required.

There is no threaded ports on my tank, just barbs for a push on hose. Just like this one. Barbs at each corner.

Thanks for the quick replies

160180

[badazz81z28]

That’s not barb lol. That’s a nipple. I would use a quality hose for that. They do sell AN fittings with -6 female to barb for the vent side.

Second option is Rick does have filler necks with 1/4” npt bungs welded in them. You could run the vent from the filler neck. I however would use a normal fuel grade hose.

That tank is designed for an OEM venting hook up

[ddavisart]

Barb, nipple...all the same to me, they all need a slide on hose :) . I think i'm going to pickup one of those push lock to an fittings and just run a small section of hose for it. Would of been nice to keep it 1 line, but this seems like the best option at the moment for me.

Thanks guys!

[dhutton]

Replace the Teflon hose with Holley Vaporguard hose. It will slip right over the nipple.

Don

[ddavisart]

Replace the Teflon hose with Holley Vaporguard hose. It will slip right over the nipple.

Don

I like that idea, thanks!

[badazz81z28]

Looks like regular fuel grade hose to me...Seems expensive!

[dhutton]

No it has a liner to prevent fumes normally associated with braided fuel lines. It also will not degrade in a year or two like the braided stuff does. Worth the cost imho....

Don

[CarlC]

Looks interesting.....

https://www.gates.com/us/en/fluid-power/engine-hose/fuel-line-hose/barricade-fuel-injection-hose-bulk/p/p100110

[GoodysGotaCuda]

No it has a liner to prevent fumes normally associated with braided fuel lines. It also will not degrade in a year or two like the braided stuff does. Worth the cost imho....

Don

I feel like today's braided is better than it was just a few years ago, most everything now is E85 rated and doesn't seem to have that issue.

[dhutton]

If it doesn’t have a liner it most likely still sucks. I’ve seen no data to indicate otherwise. Post some up if you have.

Don

[dontlifttoshift]

Phenix had E85 AN hose that was made of Viton and it was spectacular but is currently unavailable.

I have been using Parker pushlok hose with the cloth overbraid for fuel vents and pvc routing and it has held up well.

[JohnUlaszek]

SAE 30 R14 will outgas fuel vapor if its used with compatible fuels, and it will degrade and outgas even more vapor if its not. Generally speaking, anything thats advertised as fuel line but is flexible is going to outgas and degrade to some degree depending on the fuel used. Fuel tank venting is obviously a low pressure application, so its tempting to go the inexpensive route in this area -- this can be problematic if controlling odor is a concern, and it can be dangerous if the vent system is installed inside the vehicle in terms of toxic exposure to gasoline fumes and fire risk. I would not use anything but steel hard lines or PTFE conductive core. Adapting to the nipple/barb is problematic in some cases as the industry really hasn't standardized in this area. Currently I see the gamut of SAE O-Ring Ports, SAE Quick Connect, NPT, various plain steel tubing diameters, all of which require a different method to convert to PTFE or hard line. Flexible rubber type hose is very attractive given this, but should be avoided.

Hose suppliers are increasingly listing SAE specs, but don't typically explain them. This is a problem as most parts of the US are going to have fuels that have 10% or more of ethanal or other additives and this may increase to 15% with recently announced changes by the president. If you look up the SAE standard you will find hose like Carl pointed to will outgas with 5% additive even though its meets the criteria. The utility of the hose will rapidly degrades at 10% or higher additives -- see below. There is a LOT going on with respect to modern fuels and their effects on vintage cars. I'll be writing about this on the II MUCH Blog (https://www.iimuch.com/blogs/news).

"Hose which may be supplied either coupled or uncoupled for use with gasoline, diesel fuel, lubrication oil, or the vapor
present in either the fuel system or in the crankcase of internal combustion engines in small engine applications. Exposure of these hoses to gasoline or diesel fuel which contain high levels, greater than 5% by volume, of oxygenates, i.e., ethanol, methanol, or MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), may result in significantly higher permeation rates than those listed for 30R14. "

160391

Regarding the Earls/Holley Vaporguard product, they don't appear to list compliance with any SAE standard but they do offer this
"Vapor Guard’s secret is in its layers. The innermost Primary Barrier Layer offers high resistance to heat and aggressive fuels. The middle Vapor Guard™ Barrier is a Thermoplastic layer that provides superior fuel isolation and virtually eliminates vapors from escaping through the hose."

Notice they are not saying it eliminates vapors, and without characterizing "virtually" its unknowable how much vapor the hose may outgas under different blends or conditions. I'd love to know this information as it looks like an attractive product otherwise.

[JohnUlaszek]

I feel like today's braided is better than it was just a few years ago, most everything now is E85 rated and doesn't seem to have that issue.

Just because a product's description states E85 rated, doesn't mean it will actually meet your needs. There is a tendency in the aftermarket parts business to rubber stamp "E85 compatible" without specifying any sort of criteria to which it is compatible.

[CarlC]

What John states is why we both recommend PTFE for flexible lines. The current line of Goodridge hose and fittings is worlds better than anything I've ever used. It can be cut and the ends installed in the car with just two wrenches and zero blood. By far the easiest fittings to install that I've tried.

If the nipple on the tank does not accept a PTFE hose an AN6 threaded connection can be welded on. A conversion compression fitting may work if the nipple is free of coatings, smooth, round, and the correct diameter. It would be worthwhile to put some air pressure in the tank and use soapy water to check for leaks before installation/putting fuel in the tank.

The Camaro has had PTFE lines since 2002. The garage is well sealed and there is zero fuel odor.

[dhutton]

SAE 30 R14 will outgas fuel vapor if its used with compatible fuels, and it will degrade and outgas even more vapor if its not. Generally speaking, anything thats advertised as fuel line but is flexible is going to outgas and degrade to some degree depending on the fuel used. Fuel tank venting is obviously a low pressure application, so its tempting to go the inexpensive route in this area -- this can be problematic if controlling odor is a concern, and it can be dangerous if the vent system is installed inside the vehicle in terms of toxic exposure to gasoline fumes and fire risk. I would not use anything but steel hard lines or PTFE conductive core. Adapting to the nipple/barb is problematic in some cases as the industry really hasn't standardized in this area. Currently I see the gamut of SAE O-Ring Ports, SAE Quick Connect, NPT, various plain steel tubing diameters, all of which require a different method to convert to PTFE or hard line. Flexible rubber type hose is very attractive given this, but should be avoided.

Hose suppliers are increasingly listing SAE specs, but don't typically explain them. This is a problem as most parts of the US are going to have fuels that have 10% or more of ethanal or other additives and this may increase to 15% with recently announced changes by the president. If you look up the SAE standard you will find hose like Carl pointed to will outgas with 5% additive even though its meets the criteria. The utility of the hose will rapidly degrades at 10% or higher additives -- see below. There is a LOT going on with respect to modern fuels and their effects on vintage cars. I'll be writing about this on the II MUCH Blog (https://www.iimuch.com/blogs/news).

"Hose which may be supplied either coupled or uncoupled for use with gasoline, diesel fuel, lubrication oil, or the vapor
present in either the fuel system or in the crankcase of internal combustion engines in small engine applications. Exposure of these hoses to gasoline or diesel fuel which contain high levels, greater than 5% by volume, of oxygenates, i.e., ethanol, methanol, or MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), may result in significantly higher permeation rates than those listed for 30R14. "

160391

Holley Vaporgard hose does not outgas in my experience. It has a liner and is a lot more flexible than Teflon hose. Great product imho and has a nice OEM look.

Don

[badazz81z28]

I have been using Earl nylon braded hose for my vent for at least 4 years...never notice gas smell from the car just sitting. My exhaust smell is what's irritating.

[JohnUlaszek]

I have been using Earl nylon braded hose for my vent for at least 4 years...never notice gas smell from the car just sitting. My exhaust smell is what's irritating.

There is tremendous variation in the hoses available labeled as "fuel hose" some which are advertised to meet the requirements of the dozen variations of SAE J30. The requirements in J30 for permeation g/m²/day range from "not required" to "none". In other words, a hose can meet the requirement yet still outgas vapor or be incompatible with available fuel blends. So, what is working for you might not work for someone else and may not continue to work given the continuous changes in fuel formulations and how the products are used. As a car owner this may or may not be an issue for you, but if you are a car builder or manufacturer its a big deal.

[max69chevelle]

165577Like others stated here was my solution....